Over-reaction Three Weeks In.... Offense seems disjointed

[Solomon Grundy]

Just now, nedboy7 said:

He played a little too free in the jets game. That’s coaching. Then he plays more disciplined.  It’s coaching. Sometimes it’s Josh. 

Simply, it was SUGAR HIGH JOSH in the Jets game. Monday Night Football, versus Aaron Rodgers, in NY with the Manningcast. Hopefully it's out of his system. Hope not to see it versus the Dolphins. Someone please cue up Frankie baby on his playlist

[y2zipper]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

First four trips to the red zone yielded 16 points.  Against explosive offensive teams, this is probably not quite good enough.  The red zone play calls and play designs don’t seem much different than last year.  This level of red zone success is fine again average or below average teams.   It is certainly eligible to improve as

the new players have more games together. But I think to go deep in the playoffs it must improve. 

 

I agree with this. I also think part of the equation is that it's the ebb and flow of September football. I would rather see the struggle to figure it out happen now than later.

 

The big positive so far this year is that I think the Washington and Vegas games are the types of games that last year's team would let the opponent back into. Those two games are examples of championship level stepping on the throat when you get a chance to and I hope that continues.

 

Offensively, I do see the vision. The bills want to run a balanced attack, establish a run game and be able to adjust the personnel grouping to take advantage of matchups. Last week against the raiders the 12 set worked really really well, but this week Kincaid struggled against Washington's defensive line and got penalized twice, so they tried to switch it up and go with the 11 personnel some more. Right now the struggle I see what that is that they're not getting a whole lot of production out of Sherfield or Harty, and I hope that changes. One of those two or shakir has to be a productive receiver for this vision to work, and I hope it's simply an issue of chemistry and needing more time and that it'll gel as the season goes.

[nedboy7]

The Cover1 podcast is well balanced.  He does go into what the short comings are on offense were.  It's a good listen. 

[Bruffalo]

Dorsey is fine, but he's not great.  I'd call him competent, but he's getting bailed out too often by Allen doing Allen things and Diggs just being a top 3 WR in football.  

 

The first and second downs yesterday were mostly abysmal execution.  I could kind of see what he was going for, but 1/10 plays had me questioning reality.  The 4th down and 1 particularly, but there a bunch of other examples.   I don't see the motion, I don't see Allen audible nearly as much as he used to with Daboll either.

 

At least Cook looks pretty solid, having a bit more of a run game is a positive. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

It’s the run commitment that’s making the passing game look disjointed and it is worth it imo.  Also two of the three games we’ve had have been against pretty tough defenses and the other game the offense was firing on all cylinders

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[MPL]

My biggest concern yesterday was the lack of production in the passing game from anyone not named Diggs. Aside from Diggs, no one had more than 2 receptions. Then again, Josh completed passes to 9 or 10 different receivers, so maybe it's actually a good thing? Maybe I actually don't know anything and have to just enjoy the result? I'm not sure how to do that... 

[CincyBillsFan]

I think that the NE playoff game has permanently spoiled and distorted Bills fans about what NFL offenses should look like week in and week out.  Yesterday it was raining in the first half and the Bills faced one of the top 5 defensive fronts in the NFL.  Of course the offense won't look like a well oiled machine on every play. 

 

I thought for the nature of the opponent and the way our D was playing the Bills offense was quite good.  When we were left with the ball at our own 1 & 2 yard lines the Offense put on nice drives to move the ball into Redskin territory. Only a couple of penalties and a dropped pass prevented us from scoring more then 3 points on those 2 drives.

 

The Bills appear to have made some major changes in their offensive philosophy.  This fact makes their performance over the last 2 games all the more satisfying.

 

 

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

BTW to get off the Offense for a while.  The Buffalo D has faced a "Murderers Row" of Zach Wilson, JimmyG & Sam Howell through 3 weeks.....

Yea and Dallas, with what the national media is calling the best Defense since the 85 Bears gave up 28 points to some Arizona QB named Josh Dobbs!

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

4 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yep 75 points the last two weeks (7 by the defense) and a very scary Miami team this week.

 

Yesterday was never in doubt, but face it the Bills only had 16 points entering the 4th.

 

Been said in other threads and not ready to state this is a serious issue, but the Offense just seems a little off (and let's forget about the Jets game).

 

Week two I commented the red zone was somewhat of a slog and while the Bills moved up and down the field, it was primarily dinks and dunks and little over the middle.  No screens, TE's seem underutilized and none of those 20 yard lasers Allen is great at. 

 

Yesterday a great TD pass to Davis (his only catch of the day) and a few bb's to Diggs, three big scrambles by Josh and the last drive 64 yards rushing (with the game over), but again the offense I hope is a work in progress as I am not seeing a team firing on all cylinders. 

 

As said hope it is just an over-reaction.

 

  

WGR is obsessed with Dalton Kincaid, and they put stock into him being able to dominate up the seams, but I would say that's probably not going exactly to plan. 

 

6.5 ypc. 

 

I think Harty is not the athlete he was billed to be. He looks like a 4.5 guy in a 5'6" body, not much burst, so he like Kincaid, is limited to dumps offs and bubble screen attempts in a dialed back Isaiah McKenzie type role. 

 

Overall, we've pounded the Raiders and Commanders, but I said after Week 1, our skill players are slow overall. 

 

We need Gabe to stay on the last two games output, 130 yards and 2 TDs and not revert back to 2 catch, 30 yard Gabe. 

 

[Chandler#81]

3 hours ago, eball said:

I haven’t looked at the play-by-play but it appeared to me the Bills made a concerted effort to run the ball on 1st and 2nd downs in the first half yesterday, and those plays were simply stuffed.  It wasn’t the game plan, it was the execution and Washington was prepared to defend the run.

 

I know everyone is up in arms about the 4th down call.  I get it, I really do, but the Bills had not been “successful” all game in short yardage and it was a safe play call, the DL just made a good play.

 

Only in the 4th quarter did the Bills finally wear down the Commandos and find success running.

 

The Davis drop was a big drive killer.

 

I think Dorsey is doing fine…we are spreading the ball around and still getting it to Diggs.  Not every game is going to be the offense moving like a hot knife through butter.  Washington has talent on defense.

 

 

THIS! Thank you. So many know it alls bitchin about play selection. Washington Whatever’s have 4 1st Round picks in the front four. What it did by running so much is buy Allen another second or 2 when we did pass. Too many Gen Zers here who grew up without a Dad at home. Sign of the times.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

11 minutes ago, MPL said:

My biggest concern yesterday was the lack of production in the passing game from anyone not named Diggs. Aside from Diggs, no one had more than 2 receptions. Then again, Josh completed passes to 9 or 10 different receivers, so maybe it's actually a good thing? Maybe I actually don't know anything and have to just enjoy the result? I'm not sure how to do that... 

I don't think it's a good thing. 

 

The Bills have struggled to get another top flight offensive weapon on this team to pair with Diggs. 

 

Really WRs 2-5 have been replaced by a faster and more powerful run game, with better offensive line play. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

35 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Simply, it was SUGAR HIGH JOSH in the Jets game. Monday Night Football, versus Aaron Rodgers, in NY with the Manningcast. Hopefully it's out of his system. Hope not to see it versus the Dolphins. Someone please cue up Frankie baby on his playlist

The fumble was a killer, honestly though 3 of his 4 picks this season have been essentially arm punts (one on second and long though of course) 

 

In the past he seems to start doin really aggressive stuff when he loses faith in the offensive line and last season he had good reason to but this year is different.  He got real skittish in the jets game I think partly because he wasn’t used to playing with the revamped oline yet.  He was bailing pockets early all night. I don’t think we’ll see that again this year as he starts to build some trust with those guys

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

4 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yep 75 points the last two weeks (7 by the defense) and a very scary Miami team this week.

 

Yesterday was never in doubt, but face it the Bills only had 16 points entering the 4th.

 

Been said in other threads and not ready to state this is a serious issue, but the Offense just seems a little off (and let's forget about the Jets game).

 

Week two I commented the red zone was somewhat of a slog and while the Bills moved up and down the field, it was primarily dinks and dunks and little over the middle.  No screens, TE's seem underutilized and none of those 20 yard lasers Allen is great at. 

 

Yesterday a great TD pass to Davis (his only catch of the day) and a few bb's to Diggs, three big scrambles by Josh and the last drive 64 yards rushing (with the game over), but again the offense I hope is a work in progress as I am not seeing a team firing on all cylinders. 

 

As said hope it is just an over-reaction.

 

  

No way. The offense has been fantastic. I love the long sustaining drives and running game. TOP was for 36 minutes against the Commanders and 40 for the Raiders. This is exactly how they are going to beat Miami next week. Someone made a post about how the Bills are moving more towards a smash mouth offense and I agree. There’s a reason they went after all these RBs in the off-season. I am ecstatic. We might actually have a 1000 yard rusher in James Cook this year. It’s so nice to have an offense that doesn’t live or die with Josh Allen. 

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

If Washington wasn't turning the ball over and putting up some points, I think we stay aggressive on offense.  

Multiple Bills have talked about playing to the weakness of the team they're facing.  In this type of game where the weather at the outset was iffy and your D was expected to shutdown the opponents O settling for FG's in the Red Zone is no bad thing.  Against a better offense, like Miami, you need to play more aggressively and get TD's. 

 

Of course the greater aggregation can also lead to more Red Zone TO's. The risk is worth it against a high powered offense.  Against a team like the Commanders it wasn't.  And in hindsight against a Jet's team without Rogers any payoff for Allen's aggression wasn't worth it.

 

 

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I don't think it's a good thing. 

 

The Bills have struggled to get another top flight offensive weapon on this team to pair with Diggs. 

 

Really WRs 2-5 have been replaced by a faster and more powerful run game, with better offensive line play. 

Idk gabes lookin pretty good through 3 games…he seems like a pretty viable 2 to me.  Run game is objectively improved too…people that want to see josh get an mvp may not like it but this offense is certainly better than last year 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

No way. The offense has been fantastic. I love the long sustaining drives and running game. TOP was for 36 minutes against the Commanders and 40 for the Raiders. This is exactly how they are going to beat Miami next week. Someone made a post about how the Bills are moving more towards a smash mouth offense and I agree. There’s a reason they went after all these RBs in the off-season. I am ecstatic. We might actually have a 1000 yard rusher in James Cook this year. It’s so nice to have an offense that doesn’t live or die with Josh Allen. 

 

Yep.  That is the key.  We have to get TD's instead of FG's when we are in the red zone.  Keep Tua and Hill on the sidelines.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[Bruffalo]

Just now, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Idk gabes lookin pretty good through 3 games…he seems like a pretty viable 2 to me.  Run game is objectively improved too…people that want to see josh get an mvp may not like it but this offense is certainly better than last year 

He's looked fine but (in my opinion, anyways) you need to get more than 1-2 catches a game, even if it's a TD, to be a reliable #2 wideout.   

[The Wiz]

I didn't like hearing this stat.  The bills had 17 2nd downs of 8 yards or more.  I feel like that is a lot of first downs that did little to nothing. 

[Eastport bills]

The offense is transitioning into more of a ball control mentality in an effort to stay away from costly turnovers. Josh will still take vertical shots when he sees opportunities, like the Davis TD, but it’s more possession type throws in the 10 to 15 yd variety. They kicked FGs too often yesterday but the defense controlled the young QB, who they confused with coverages. They are starting to develop a run game with the three complimentary RBs and Josh brought back the QB runs that teams will have to defend going forward. I think the Bill are developing an identity that features a smothering defense and multidimensional offense that wants to outscore the opponent and win the turnover battle. Let’s see what it looks like against Miami, KC, Philly. 

[Logic]

I haven't read through the entire thread, but I just wanted to say that I disagree with the OP.

The past two weeks -- and especially this week -- are the LEAST disjointed I've seen the Bills offense look in a while.

Last year, and in week one of this year, everything looked like a struggle for the offense. The past two weeks, that hasn't been the case in my eyes. The Bills offense is starting to move the ball with more ease and crispness and consistency.

If anything, as @teef said, the offense has looked non-explosive. But I think that's what defenses are daring and begging the Bills to be. They're still doing that two-high shell, "you're going to have to dink and dunk to beat us" stuff against Josh Allen. The more the Bills are patient and commit to the run and take the short gains, the more the defense creeps down, and then big shots -- like the one to Gabe Davis for a TD and almost for a second TD yesterday -- open up.

Further, I'd suggest the Bills are still figuring out the balance of exactly what they're going to be this season. The last few seasons, they were such a heavy 10 and 11 personnel team. This year, they've undergone a HUGE shift to more 21, 12, and 22 personnel. Finding that balance, learning which sets work best in which situations and in which sets the offensive players are most comfortable and effective, will take a bit of time.

Personally, I've been the most encouraged about the offense the past two weeks that I've been since early last season.

[sunshynman]

The negs on here are crazy. Yes, there are something's that Dorsey is doing that are ?able. Yes, The 4th - 1 shotgun was a dumb call. Why we see so many routes where WR end up right next to each other has me baffled. Are these intentionally drawn up that way? I can't think of any kind of advantage that would give you, other than maybe if there was a tipped ball. 

 

But he's still learning on the job. We saw some creative misdirection to slow down the pass rush. And it worked. It allowed us to drive the field. We shot ourselves in the foot with penalties or bad plays in the red zone. 

 

And then in the second half the refs were either trying to hedge the spread because they had bets on it. Or were told from up high to make it more interesting. 

 

The forward progress non-fumble call was one of the worst calls I have ever witnessed. And it seems like Bills are the only team to be called for Offensive holding by the Oline. But or rushers are getting chopped blocked, undressed, and dragged down by the helmet and the refs look away. 

 

Overall, we are progressing into a much more balanced offense. That is learning how to have an effective run game. This will pay dividends in the playoffs. So, give Dorsey benefit of the doubt for now. It's not like we would do well to replace him now. It would be crazy to try. If he ends up the reason, we don't make it to the SB, then he will be replaced in the offseason.  But I don't see how that will happen. We have enough talent to overcome a few ill-advised calls. And if the D maintains this pace, we will become a juggernaut. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by sunshynman