Interesting ESPN article (re Allen): death of the deep ball

[TPS]

This article is not about Allen, but, as the quote from Mahomes shows below--it brings to focus what much of the discussion has been about this week--his maturity and decision-making...

 

Quote

 

The next season, Mahomes noticed defenses were starting to play him differently. If he was going to beat them, it wasn't going to be with go-balls to Tyreek Hill.

"We faced so many deep coverages where teams were taking away all our deep throws," Mahomes said of the 2021 season during a Super Bowl LV media session. "I had to learn when to just take what's underneath. That's something where I've kind of grown and matured. We'll call deep plays still all the time, but if defenses are going to play that deep, even though I want to in my heart of hearts to throw it downfield and make those big plays, I'll take the underneath stuff and find ways to move the ball down the field that way."

 

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by TPS

[QB Bills]

This is exactly the mental shift that Allen needs to undergo. Fortunately and unfortunately, with his arm talent, he can make any throw regardless of defense and for the most part he's right. But if he's off, as he was Monday night, that's what you get.

[Lost]

Last season when the topic also came up about Allen throwing too many deep balls, both him and Dorsey basically said, we're not changing.   In Josh's presser yesterday, while he once again stated he needs to be smarter with the football, he also said he's going to continue to trust his arm.   I don't really expect much change at this point. 

[Punching Bag]

9 minutes ago, Lost said:

Last season when the topic also came up about Allen throwing too many deep balls, both him and Dorsey basically said, we're not changing.   In Josh's presser yesterday, while he once again stated he needs to be smarter with the football, he also said he's going to continue to trust his arm.   I don't really expect much change at this point. 

 

Last season the excuse / reason was some balls were difficult to throw with his arm injury,

[Mr. WEO]

18 minutes ago, Lost said:

Last season when the topic also came up about Allen throwing too many deep balls, both him and Dorsey basically said, we're not changing.   In Josh's presser yesterday, while he once again stated he needs to be smarter with the football, he also said he's going to continue to trust his arm.   I don't really expect much change at this point. 

 

Allen threw 51 passes of 20+ yards out of 567 attempts.

 

This "Josh can't throw the short pass" take just won't die.

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, TPS said:

This article is not about Allen, but, as the quote from Mahomes shows below--it brings to focus what much of the discussion has been about this week--his maturity and decision-making...

 

 

A great find Josh needs to realize defenses have him booked don’t let the safeties get beat deep and he will get frustrated and try to force it. Like Peyton told him it’s going to be boring football either you learn to adjust or your days in the nfl will be numbered for a guy who does 

[msw2112]

Nice post.  Extremely applicable to the current situation with Allen.

[GoBills808]

It's very similar situation to how the Chiefs were being played

 

The difference is going to be that Kelce and Reid provide a lot more answers underneath than Diggs 

[pennstate10]

The cover two can still get beat on a deep ball. 
 

By a speedy RB on a wheel route. Cool had a TD if Josh would have lifted that pass a touch more. 

[LABILLBACKER]

5 hours ago, QB Bills said:

This is exactly the mental shift that Allen needs to undergo. Fortunately and unfortunately, with his arm talent, he can make any throw regardless of defense and for the most part he's right. But if he's off, as he was Monday night, that's what you get.

I don't care how strong he thinks his arm is. There comes a time in an athletes life where you have to mature and be smart. He has all the athletic tools yet refuses to embrace the other stuff.

[DrDawkinstein]

26 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

It's very similar situation to how the Chiefs were being played

 

The difference is going to be that Kelce and Reid provide a lot more answers underneath than Diggs *and Dorsey

 

It's not all on Diggs. As a matter of fact, I'd say it's way more on Dorsey to have the plays ready, much like Reid does.

 

Diggs and Kelce will do their job no matter what.

 

But which coach is putting his players in the best position to succeed?

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It's not all on Diggs. As a matter of fact, I'd say it's way more on Dorsey to have the plays ready, much like Reid does.

 

Diggs and Kelce will do their job no matter what.

 

But which coach is putting his players in the best position to succeed?

I can reasonably expect Diggs to perform at a level comparable to Kelce

 

But I don't expect the same from Dorsey qua Reid which is why I omitted him and why it's likely we will struggle more than the Chiefs did

[Royale with Cheese]

30 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

The cover two can still get beat on a deep ball. 
 

By a speedy RB on a wheel route. Cool had a TD if Josh would have lifted that pass a touch more. 

 

If you have a WR combo where one runs a fly and the inside WR runs a post...the safety has to pick one.  

Lee Evans used to get beat cover 2 over the top with his speed.  

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

He had guys open underneath on everyone of those deep incomplete or intercepted passes. Cooks is going to be a huge weapon for us this year, he has better hands than some WR’s

 

[Dr.Sack]

Allen can still dominate if Kincaid & Knox get to work the middle of the field 10-15 yards past the line. 

[DrDawkinstein]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I can reasonably expect Diggs to perform at a level comparable to Kelce

 

But I don't expect the same from Dorsey qua Reid which is why I omitted him and why it's likely we will struggle more than the Chiefs did

 

And that's my point. We have a Kelce equivalent. We do not have anything close to a Reid equivalent. But we cant let Dorsey off the hook just because we know he is lesser-than.

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

And that's my point. We have a Kelce equivalent. We do not have anything close to a Reid equivalent. But we cant let Dorsey off the hook just because we know he is lesser-than.

There no hook imo

 

You give maybe the GOAT offensive coach in Reid Mahomes, a very good oline, Kelce and a bunch of meh and you get the Chiefs (excellent) offense

 

You give a good OC in Dorsey Allen, a bad oline, Diggs, and a bunch of meh and you get the Bills (very good) offense

 

I mean did you really expect them to walk all over the Jets defense, they were always going to struggle

[MJS]

It needs to become habitual for Allen, because when he feels the pressure and isn't processing things, he does not see the short stuff. He needs to make it a habit so that if he feels that way, he automatically looks for the check down or short stuff. That is why you have check downs, so you can get the ball out quickly when you are in trouble or if everything is covered.

 

He needs to not bail from the pocket so much, too. He did it on almost every pass play.

[The Wiz]

22 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

Allen can still dominate if Kincaid & Knox get to work the middle of the field 10-15 yards past the line. 

Maybe they should start with 5-10 yards.

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Maybe they should start with 5-10 yards.

Two five-yard plays = first down. Josh Allen doesn't like that math.