Do You Still "TRUST THE PROCESS"?

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

What is "the process" we are supposed to trust.

 

The "process" I like is being patient, developing from within, not giving out terrible contracts.  The Bills are kinda hit-and-miss with that.

 

For example, I like Von Miller, but I wasn't all for giving him that contract.  I understand why he did it, but to me that money could have been better spent on upgrading the OL.  So to me, "the process" is different from what others want it to be.  I think from the Bills point of view, "the process" is just asking fans to be patient with WHATEVER they choose to do.

Signing Von Miller and Floyd for that matter is the very antithesis of The Process. In fact those signings scream that The Process is not working. Now, those signings aren’t bad moves….but they definitely aren’t The Process. 

[Royale with Cheese]

9 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

See my comment above. This thread is about The Process. It’s NOT about the draft. 

 

It seemed to relate because you brought up the draft picks and how you won't accept that draft picks have been "totally" missed.

That's why I put up the data.  Misses absolutely happen.

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So the process only counts if you were drafted by the Bills and only counts if you were drafted after Josh? I'm confused as to your parameters. 

The definition of The Process (your definition) is developing players once they’re here…regardless of where they came from. I’d put it to you that players I mentioned on defense (and Diggs on offense) were already well ‘developed’ BEFORE they got here. 

[Dopey]

11 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Allen was a top 7 pick right?  After Allen, how many top 7 NFL offensive talent have we drafted?

Not saying you, but I've had discussions with people about the Bengals draft and some arguments were "The Bengals got Chase for Burrow and we didn't do that for Allen."  Well, Chase was a top 5 pick.  That year, we picked I think in the mid 20's.  

 

The Chiefs, since they have won 2 Super Bowls in the last 4 years.  

In the last few drafts, what stand out offensive player have they drafted?

Sky Moore?  Mecole Hardman?

 

Not saying the Chiefs suck at drafting but you're not going to have as many big hits if you're drafting the the 20's and 30's all the time.

As to the Chiefs, this board was all googoo gagga over Pacheco cuz they found a late round gem. Forgetting he replaced a first round dud. 
 

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It seemed to relate because you brought up the draft picks and how you won't accept that draft picks have been "totally" missed.

That's why I put up the data.  Misses absolutely happen.

I understand. I’m just trying to make a distinction about the term: The Process. To my way of thinking it speaks to a system (process over product). The draft is all about product. Without getting too far into the weeds it seems like the Steelers, under Tomlin, are a good example of Process. They always seem to competitive with a next man up philosophy spanning many years now. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The definition of The Process (your definition) is developing players once they’re here…regardless of where they came from. I’d put it to you that players I mentioned on defense (and Diggs on offense) were already well ‘developed’ BEFORE they got here. 

 

That is not my definition of the process. My definition of the process is it being about your preparation not outcomes. Trust in your process and the outcomes will follow. It was others who claimed it was about developing backups to play. 

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I understand. I’m just trying to make a distinction about the term: The Process. To my way of thinking it speaks to a system (process over product). The draft is all about product. Without getting too far into the weeds it seems like the Steelers, under Tomlin, are a good example of Process. They always seem to competitive with a next man up philosophy spanning many years now. 

 

I think you're taking this slogan too literal.  

 

Yeah, the Steelers are a good example of it but they're also an anomaly.  They've only had 3 coaches in NFL history?  Yeah they've been competitive in the last several years but we've been more competitive.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[mjd1001]

So we are now deep into a discussion again of what is "the process"  Until we establish that, I'm not sure how to comment.  I think the issue is "the process" is different to different people.

 

To me, I think I am different than many fans on here.  I WANT the process to be draft and develop from within. Don't give out big contracts to outside players. When you have one of your home grown guys come up, even if he is in the prime of his career, don't just assume you have to give him the top deal.  As was said above, the Pittsburgh theory of "next man up" is what I like. I'm not GM (to the joy of most people) but if I was, I would not have traded for Diggs (would have kept on drafting WR's). I would not have signed V. Miller.  I WOULD sign free agents, but not the top priced guys.  If that is what the process is, I trust that, but the Bills have moved away from that.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is not my definition of the process. My definition of the process is it being about your preparation not outcomes. Trust in your process and the outcomes will follow. It was others who claimed it was about developing backups to play. 

It's very hard for the vast majority of folks to not be results driven but you are correct imo

 

Focus on good decision making, live w the outcomes

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think you're taking this slogan too literal.  

 

Yeah, the Steelers are a good example of it but they're also an anomaly.  They've only had 3 coaches in NFL history?  Yeah they've been competitive in the last several years but we've been more competitive.

 

And only 4 General Managers. 

 

But even so when Devin Bush went down injured and came back half the same player their attempts to replace him from within failed to the extent they had to go and overpay a mediocre FA in Elandon Roberts. By the definition some people are trying to paint here if you have a process all your backups should slide in seamlessly. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think you're taking this slogan too literal.  

 

Yeah, the Steelers are a good example of it but they're also an anomaly.  They've only had 3 coaches in NFL history?  Yeah they've been competitive in the last several years but we've been more competitive.

This thread is about the slogan. I didn’t create the slogan. The organization did. I was a guy who created corporate slogans like this. It either means something in the daily activities and philosophy of an organization or it doesn’t. EVERY organization comes up with a catch phrase like this but for the vast majority when the workday starts you’re hard pressed to see how it’s ever put into action. 

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

This thread is about the slogan. I didn’t create the slogan. The organization did. I was a guy who created corporate slogans like this. It either means something in the daily activities and philosophy of an organization or it doesn’t. EVERY organization comes up with a catch phrase like this but for the vast majority when the workday starts you’re hard pressed to see how it’s ever put into action. 

It did mean something. It was about not only a rebuild but also a culture change. The Bills had a losing culture. Losing was expected and acceptable. The organization had to take a step back and clean house. That meant trading talented players like Marcel Darius and Sammy Watkins. That process was completed by the end of the 2018 season. I think that the culture is now strong enough that they could bring some nasty into the mix, but what do I know?

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

This thread is about the slogan. I didn’t create the slogan. The organization did. I was a guy who created corporate slogans like this. It either means something in the daily activities and philosophy of an organization or it doesn’t. EVERY organization comes up with a catch phrase like this but for the vast majority when the workday starts you’re hard pressed to see how it’s ever put into action. 

 

The Bills didn't create the slogan either.  It's been around for years, they just wanted to use it.

 

But I am leaning towards Gunner's definition of The Process.  At least that's how I view it.

[GoBills808]

Think about it in terms of equity, you're trying to make decisions that are +EV over time to generate more equity

 

Forget about the SB for a minute because it's very much a variance dependent outcome

 

Over the last 3 to four years you have to conclude the Bills are +EV

[Beast]

I mean, until we win the Super Bowl, we will always find ways to lose.

 

That’s true and also a lazy take.

[BananaB]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Which young player wasn't ready? James Cook? Kincaid? Torrence? Benford? They all looked pretty ready to me. 

Boogie and Aj. You like Cook but he’s up in the air right now and we spent 2 second day picks on Singletary and Moss already. Last year the put full confidence in McKenzie and Gabe to step into bigger rolls and it backfired. McKenzie was so bad he was the first guy cut this year I think. I think what’s worse about the situation is Shakir had a great rookie camp but his roll was limited because this coaching staff would not demote McKenzie. Now Shakir seems to in the doghouse and what looked like a promising player this time last year might eventually be a future wasted pick. 
Last year when Hyde went down we had a young safety who was on the team 4 years, he was flat out terrible when he got his shot.  Jesus Christ, the best olineman we drafted plays for the ***** Browns. 

[PBF81]

8 hours ago, QCity said:

That phrase is nothing more than marketing speak for a rebuild. That's it. Nothing more. 

 

It was first used over 10 years ago when the 76ers new GM wanted to rebuild and dealt away their only All-Star, Jrue Holiday. The Philly fanbase was apoplectic, and the "Trust The Process" slogan was used to comfort their nerves and calm them down (of course it also became a rallying cry).

 

The same thing happened here when we jettisoned Dareus and Watkins - our fanbase had a complete meltdown and the phrase was used to settle everyone down akin to waving shiny keys in front of a crying infant. It's not a secret, next-level plan or some mystical force.

 

P.S. 11 years later the 76ers still haven't reached the title game.

 

LOL, so it's not even original then.  

 

Thanks!  I don't follow any sports but football.  

 

To the point then, even more, it seems to have merely been used by McD to deflect criticism and questioning, while representing nothing concrete.  As well, rebuilds typically take a season or two, not six.  Granted, he hasn't used the term much if at all this season, and very sparingly last season, but he was using it four years in in 2020.  

 

It appears to have all but disappeared from the McBeane lexicon.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, BananaB said:

Boogie and Aj. You like Cook but he’s up in the air right now and we spent 2 second day picks on Singletary and Moss already. Last year the put full confidence in McKenzie and Gabe to step into bigger rolls and it backfired. McKenzie was so bad he was the first guy cut this year I think. I think what’s worse about the situation is Shakir had a great rookie camp but his roll was limited because this coaching staff would not demote McKenzie. Now Shakir seems to in the doghouse and what looked like a promising player this time last year might eventually be a future wasted pick. 
Last year when Hyde went down we had a young safety who was on the team 4 years, he was flat out terrible when he got his shot.  Jesus Christ, the best olineman we drafted plays for the ***** Browns. 

 

We have missed on some draft picks. No question about that. I didn't like the Singletary, Moss or Boogie picks at the time we made them. Shakir I did like and it might surprise you to know he played a third of the offensive snaps as a rookie. He wasn't confined to the bench or in the doghouse or anything.... he couldn't separate when he was out there. And he had a woeful camp this year and fell further. He has got the opportunities his play have deserved. Which ain't many. 

[BananaB]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We have missed on some draft picks. No question about that. I didn't like the Singletary, Moss or Boogie picks at the time we made them. Shakir I did like and it might surprise you to know he played a third of the offensive snaps as a rookie. He wasn't confined to the bench or in the doghouse or anything.... he couldn't separate when he was out there. And he had a woeful camp this year and fell further. He has got the opportunities his play have deserved. Which ain't many. 

 

30% in what situations? We ran 4 WRs most of the year that’s a slim depth chart. He’s gonna see the field doesn’t mean he’s gonna get an equal opportunity to see the ball.  
 

We also had problem catching last year and the Giants stole a guy who’s biggest strength in college was his hands. Oddly enough he made an impact while giving an opportunity in NY. Never got that opportunity here because our WR group was deep. Lmfao! Try to explain that to me

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, BananaB said:

 

30% in what situations? We ran 4 WRs most of the year that’s a slim depth chart. He’s gonna see the field doesn’t mean he’s gonna get an equal opportunity to see the ball.  
 

We also had problem catching last year and the Giants stole a guy who’s biggest strength in college was his hands. Oddly enough he made an impact while giving an opportunity in NY. Never got that opportunity here because our WR group was deep. Lmfao! Try to explain that to me

 

1. We didn't run 4 WRs most of the year, we ran 11 personnel most of the year. But he didn't get more opportunity to see the ball because he struggled getting open.

 

2. Hodgins got some shots in New York because their WR depth was awful. Good luck to him. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, FrenchConnection said:

It did mean something. It was about not only a rebuild but also a culture change. The Bills had a losing culture. Losing was expected and acceptable. The organization had to take a step back and clean house. That meant trading talented players like Marcel Darius and Sammy Watkins. That process was completed by the end of the 2018 season. I think that the culture is now strong enough that they could bring some nasty into the mix, but what do I know?

You may indeed be right. But, just as in a corporate setting where managers are brought in to clean house, that ‘process’ then only relates to the cleaning. You need a new process for the sustaining, and possibly a new manager/coach if they can’t make the shift from cleaning to sustaining. We’re going to learn a lot this season. 

[BananaB]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

1. We didn't run 4 WRs most of the year, we ran 11 personnel most of the year. But he didn't get more opportunity to see the ball because he struggled getting open.

 

2. Hodgins got some shots in New York because their WR depth was awful. Good luck to him. 

I meant it in a way that we only had 4 suited up on Sundays. 

[SirAndrew]

4 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Do you feel that regardless of how they perform in camp or practice, it doesn't matter and they should play regardless?

 

If Benford in camp completely outplays Elam, Elam should start because he was a higher draft pick?

The best player should definitely earn the starting spot. However, Elam was inactive week one, and it seemed like a McD’s doghouse move. There’s nothing wrong with starting Benford, but I think a first round CB needs to see the field in some capacity. Give him a role this season, if he fails move on. I’ve always tried to say nothing but good things about McD. He’s a great guy, and along with Allen saved this franchise from complete obscurity. That doesn’t mean I trust him in developing players. As an example, I think Kincaid is an incredible talent, but I don’t trust this team to properly utilize him. 

[T master]

On 9/12/2023 at 12:37 PM, HIT BY SPIKES said:

I always attempt to show some restraint not to over react to just one game negatively or positively however the pattern is pretty obvious now.

 

13 seconds

 

Bengals Play-offs' earlier this year

 

Last night (name to follow)

 

We find ways to lose.

 

I appreciate to the fans who have lived through the dark ages post-Jimbo have an admiration for this current Bills regime for getting us back into the play-offs on a regular basis, securing a true franchise QB and bringing Buffalo Proud back to the Buffalo Bills fandom.

 

I get that.

 

"Saviours" may be too highly a label to bestow upon this regime given Terry Pegula already took that title for first buying the Buffalo Sabres and then the Buffalo Bills and securing their futures in Buffalo.

 

I also get that.

 

However:

 

(1) Does Sean McDermott have what it takes to win the biggest games?  

 

(2) Sean McDermott is said to be a defensive minded coach and has been there for a number of years banging the table for an one sided investment of high draft picks, salary cap and free agency pursuits into the defensive side of the ball yet our defence and special teams continue to collapse in pivotal times of key games.  Why?

 

(3) Is Beane's inability to build an average NFL OL to give our franchise QB an extra 1/4 second to scan the field before making a decision to pass, run or throw the ball away or to allow us to run the ball successfully when we have a 10 point lead a fundamental obstacle to this regimes ability to finally deliver us a Buffalo Bills Super Bowl Championship?

 

(4) Do you still TRUST THE PROCESSTM?

 

The Process has taken our team from a 17 year drought to 4 years in the play offs & 3 years AFC east champions so what is there not to trust ?

 

The Steelers have been one of the most stable teams as far as coaching goes in the history of the NFL & if they have a bad streak which the Bills haven't really had a bad streak only some bad games since McD got here they don't fire the coach every time things don't go perfect .

 

TO be a SB team everything has to be in line coaching staff and players i'm not exactly sure what it will take to get the team to the big game but i would much rather have a team that is in contention than bring in a Rex Ryan to blow things up the way he did & have it all go backwards .

 

Yes it could go the other way and they could win it all but for now i'm good with where the team is & the chemistry that McD & Beane have & believe that they will together bring the trophy to Buffalo 1 day . We waded through 17 yrs of not winning i can be patient enough to wait a few more yrs of winning to see where this goes .

[BigAl2526]

The "process" is not the problem.

[QLBillsFan]

I wanted McDermott fired immediately after 13 seconds. He’s the CEO of what happens on the field. Much like Shanny in SF( the O guru). Who for no reason other than seeking style points lost the SB for the ATL. McD is a good NFL coach and deserves credit for turning this team around. But I don’t think he’s capable of a SB. I hope I’m proven wrong!

[HIT BY SPIKES]

3 hours ago, QLBillsFan said:

I wanted McDermott fired immediately after 13 seconds. He’s the CEO of what happens on the field. Much like Shanny in SF( the O guru). Who for no reason other than seeking style points lost the SB for the ATL. McD is a good NFL coach and deserves credit for turning this team around. But I don’t think he’s capable of a SB. I hope I’m proven wrong!

 

Why do you feel that way?

[Kirby Jackson]

On 9/12/2023 at 12:42 PM, MAJBobby said:

I think we have a very good FO.

 

I am unsure about the HC

 

I have no issues with the Ownership

 

 

This is where I’m kind of at. I’m a little past “unsure” on HC though. I thought, prior to last year, that the Bills should have considered keeping Daboll instead of McDermott. It’s like when Tampa promoted Koetter to keep the continuity with a young Jameis. To me, prioritizing stability for Josh came first. You could have traded McDermott for a pick.

 

This year, I wanted to hire Sean Payton. He would have maximized Josh. If this team is ever going to win it all it is because of Josh Allen. Someone here called McDermott Doug Collins after 13 seconds and that is the best comparison possible imo. It was a great call. We need our Phil Jackson to start winning titles. 
 

Right now, Josh has less guidance than ever. They should start by bringing Barkley back in a coaching role. Have him on the sidelines and in Josh’s ear. Josh has lost Daboll, Davis Webb and Matt Barkley. Those guys were all helping him prepare and to see the game. It would be nice to give Josh that trusted confidant on the field and in the film room.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Kirby Jackson

[HIT BY SPIKES]

On 9/16/2023 at 6:24 AM, Kirby Jackson said:

This is where I’m kind of at. I’m a little past “unsure” on HC though. I thought, prior to last year, that the Bills should have considered keeping Daboll instead of McDermott. It’s like when Tampa promoted Koetter to keep the continuity with a young Jameis. To me, prioritizing stability for Josh came first. You could have traded McDermott for a pick.

 

This year, I wanted to hire Sean Payton. He would have maximized Josh. If this team is ever going to win it all it is because of Josh Allen. Someone here called McDermott Doug Collins after 13 seconds and that is the best comparison possible imo. It was a great call. We need our Phil Jackson to start winning titles. 
 

Right now, Josh has less guidance than ever. They should start by bringing Barkley back in a coaching role. Have him on the sidelines and in Josh’s ear. Josh has lost Daboll, Davis Webb and Matt Barkley. Those guys were all helping him prepare and to see the game. It would be nice to give Josh that trusted confidant on the field and in the film room.

 

So did I.

 

If Pegula offered that Sean $50M for 5 years, we would have had him.

 

What that Sean did with Drew Brees is nothing compared to what he could do with Josh Allen.

 

I suspect to get that Sean it may have meant bye bye to Beane as well.

[LyndonvilleBill]

Yes. I do still trust the process. I'm with some others here. It's about focus, paying attention to details, playing smart, getting just a little better each day. Draft, coach and retain. A Plan.

 

My issue is, I don't think some are following it. Josh is trying to do too much. Dorsey is not taking what's being given and lacks ability to adjust. Beane drafting players that don't fit (Elam, better at man than Zone. AJ, He can change his body to fit what we want). Moss, Basham poor choices to name a couple more imo. 

 

 

What happened to: 

Do your 1/11th, one play at a time, get better each week, one game at a time, take what's given etc. 

[SoCal Deek]

34 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

Yes. I do still trust the process. I'm with some others here. It's about focus, paying attention to details, playing smart, getting just a little better each day. Draft, coach and retain. A Plan.

 

My issue is, I don't think some are following it. Josh is trying to do too much. Dorsey is not taking what's being given and lacks ability to adjust. Beane drafting players that don't fit (Elam, better at man than Zone. AJ, He can change his body to fit what we want). Moss, Basham poor choices to name a couple more imo. 

 

 

What happened to: 

Do your 1/11th, one play at a time, get better each week, one game at a time, take what's given etc. 

That’s the problem with these type of organizational slogans. They mean something completely different to anyone who hears them. Having read through, and contributed to, this entire thread I’m more confused than ever as to what anyone thinks The Process even is. 

[LyndonvilleBill]

27 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

That’s the problem with these type of organizational slogans. They mean something completely different to anyone who hears them. Having read through, and contributed to, this entire thread I’m more confused than ever as to what anyone thinks The Process 

Just do the work, the results will handle themselves.

[Thurman#1]

On 9/13/2023 at 1:37 AM, HIT BY SPIKES said:

 

(4) Do you still TRUST THE PROCESSTM?

 

 

My feeling on this? Yeah, absolutely. Why wouldn't you? They've gone from a consistently mediocre team to extremely competitive every year. 

[billsfan89]

The Process turned the Bills from a team that couldn’t make the playoffs to a legit Super Bowl contender. I am not ready to toss it out just yet