Dion Dawkins

[BarleyNY]

8 hours ago, Pirate Angel said:

Dawkins bad preseason game is getting blow out of proportion... I went back and watched and paid particular attention to Dion and Spencer. There where times where Dawkins did his job, stayed in front of his man, creating a pocket but Josh didn't step up in and Dawkins man made the play. There where other plays where the ball was held on to for to long, some of this was a result of a god awful amount of penalties, go back and watch, when the ball is snapped count to three, if at the count of 3 Dion is still in front of his man and Josh is still holding the ball even though the man Dion was blocking made the play he still did his job. Now Spencer Brown on the other hand plays with terrible pad level, The leverage he plays at is awful. It looks like he is standing straight up. He has had all offseason to learnt to keep his hips under him, its like a QB thats always had a huge arm but cant wrap his head around the mental part of the NFL...He's a big powerful man and probably has spent his life slapping people around and not learning proper form, Talent isn't enough in this league. 

 

You’re not the first person to mention Allen getting too deep in the pocket as one of the issues. IMO that’s more concerning than any individual lineman’s performance because it means that either Dorsey is making some pretty rudimentary mistakes or that Allen is. Either one is worrisome. I haven’t watched for that myself, but I will. 

[Solomon Grundy]

8 hours ago, Pirate Angel said:

Dawkins bad preseason game is getting blow out of proportion... I went back and watched and paid particular attention to Dion and Spencer. There where times where Dawkins did his job, stayed in front of his man, creating a pocket but Josh didn't step up in and Dawkins man made the play. There where other plays where the ball was held on to for to long, some of this was a result of a god awful amount of penalties, go back and watch, when the ball is snapped count to three, if at the count of 3 Dion is still in front of his man and Josh is still holding the ball even though the man Dion was blocking made the play he still did his job. Now Spencer Brown on the other hand plays with terrible pad level, The leverage he plays at is awful. It looks like he is standing straight up. He has had all offseason to learnt to keep his hips under him, its like a QB thats always had a huge arm but cant wrap his head around the mental part of the NFL...He's a big powerful man and probably has spent his life slapping people around and not learning proper form, Talent isn't enough in this league. 

There were times...?? Dion should do his job well ALL THE TIME!! He's paid to do as much. I, personally, don't want him working his way into shape during the season. I'd like for him to come into camp IN SHAPE. It would be nice if our ALL WORLD QB could have a DOMINATE LT that could protect him. Dion should be trying to equate himself to Trent Williams and be known as one of the best at his craft. 

 

[Pirate Angel]

9 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

There were times...?? Dion should do his job well ALL THE TIME!! He's paid to do as much. I, personally, don't want him working his way into shape during the season. I'd like for him to come into camp IN SHAPE. It would be nice if our ALL WORLD QB could have a DOMINATE LT that could protect him. Dion should be trying to equate himself to Trent Williams and be known as one of the best at his craft. 

 

There where times...as in there where times it was Joshs fault and not his 

[Jauronimo]

On 8/21/2023 at 2:14 PM, frostbitmic said:

Going into training camp Ryan Van Demark was listed as OT #6 I believe and just hoping for a spot on the practice squad. Now he's an injury away from protecting Josh's blind side in a real game.

Joe Marino, Sal, CoverOne and others have been giving Van Demark high praise all through camp.  He has looked more than serviceable according to people who know a lot more than me, for whatever its worth.  

[Pirate Angel]

9 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

There were times...?? Dion should do his job well ALL THE TIME!! He's paid to do as much. I, personally, don't want him working his way into shape during the season. I'd like for him to come into camp IN SHAPE. It would be nice if our ALL WORLD QB could have a DOMINATE LT that could protect him. Dion should be trying to equate himself to Trent Williams and be known as one of the best at his craft. 

 

Trent Williams contract is worth around 80 mill more than Dions, his contract is closer to Taylor Decker of the lions who is a better run blocker than Dawkins and fairl equal in pass pro

[frostbitmic]

2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Joe Marino, Sal, CoverOne and others have been giving Van Demark high praise all through camp.  He has looked more than serviceable according to people who know a lot more than me, for whatever its worth.  

He hasn't looked bad that's true, but he also hasn't been going against 1st string pass rushers either. Maybe they'll give him the start against da Bears this weekend and rest the Michelin Man.

[Airseven]

On 8/20/2023 at 3:07 PM, Einstein said:

 

Hard to imagine that when he has been playing poorly since he turned 28.

 

Thankfully Dawkins can be cut next year to the tune of $7.5M cap savings.

[AuntieEm]

9 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

There were times...?? Dion should do his job well ALL THE TIME!! He's paid to do as much. I, personally, don't want him working his way into shape during the season. I'd like for him to come into camp IN SHAPE. It would be nice if our ALL WORLD QB could have a DOMINATE LT that could protect him. Dion should be trying to equate himself to Trent Williams and be known as one of the best at his craft. 

 

 

Yes he's paid well so no reason he can't hire a chef to cook his meals and a trainer to get him in top physical shape for the start of camp where he'd only need to get back use7d to the hitting and such of football again.  Easier to remaster one skill than to have to get in shape at the same time, which could even raise risk of injury.

 

[machine gun kelly]

On 8/21/2023 at 3:24 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

Im not as down on Dawkins as most, but I believe he has the 5th highest cap hit on the team if I am not mistaken, so I get why there are higher expectations around him.  I think Dion will be better this year without that trash can Saffold next to him.  

 

I am much more concerned with Brown at RT than I am with anything on the left side.  I am hoping that the presence of O'Cyrus and more reps to get rust off help Brown take a step forward this year, but until we see that I am going to remain concerned.

Dawkins seems to always have a crap preseason camp each year.  He comes through at the needed time.  Brown I agree because of a number of factors.  I made apologies for him until this camp.  There were good reasons, but there are none this year.  He’d Bette the this act together the next three weeks.

 

I feel good about the other four.

[Brand J]

57 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

 

Yes he's paid well so no reason he can't hire a chef to cook his meals and a trainer to get him in top physical shape for the start of camp where he'd only need to get back use7d to the hitting and such of football again.  Easier to remaster one skill than to have to get in shape at the same time, which could even raise risk of injury.

 

This is what gets me. As an athlete growing up I never really watched what I ate, but I was always one of the “skinny” ones, it wasn’t a big deal. If I had made it to professional status, you best believe I would’ve been looking for any and all advantages I could get and that would include dieting and training better.
 

As a 300+ pound athlete who doesn’t have the best body, I can’t understand how Dion doesn’t take it more seriously. He’s got the money security, sure, but just from a prideful standpoint, he should be asking himself “what’s the best way I can get the better of my competition?” and that starts with conditioning, not huffing and puffing like you ran a mile in the first quarter. I’m disappointed he’s never took care of himself that way, but what I think doesn’t matter. He just needs to start trending back up. Somehow, someway.

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

This is what gets me. As an athlete growing up I never really watched what I ate, but I was always one of the “skinny” ones, it wasn’t a big deal. If I had made it to professional status, you best believe I would’ve been looking for any and all advantages I could get and that would include dieting and training better.
 

As a 300+ pound athlete who doesn’t have the best body, I can’t understand how Dion doesn’t take it more seriously. He’s got the money security, sure, but just from a prideful standpoint, he should be asking himself “what’s the best way I can get the better of my competition?” and that starts with conditioning, not huffing and puffing like you ran a mile in the first quarter. I’m disappointed he’s never took care of himself that way, but what I think doesn’t matter. He just needs to start trending back up. Somehow, someway.

Baller, it’s like he’s stuck in a time where NFL guys went to camp to get in football shape.  Vance why coaches had two a days and more.

 

I know but as he ages, he’ll have to adapt.  The reason is why Peters lasted until he’s 40.  The man came into camp ready to play.  Now Dawkins isn’t as bad as our lovely previous DT, Dareus.

 

Hell get there.  After 5 years it’s like clockwork with him.

[C.Biscuit97]

He’s a great leader (awesome interview on PFT) but he really should be a RT. He just isn’t built for the blindside. But at the absolute worst, he is an above average OT. 
 

definitely would like to see him in better shape. A lot of people tell me he’s very in love with the pro athlete lifestyle and needs to focus more on being a professional. Still really like the guy but that would be the next step for him as a leader. 

[Billl]

He is what he’s always been, a gifted athlete who would rather do his own thing and be a good LT instead of truly dedicating himself and being one of the top guys in the game.  This isn’t a surprise.  If he were the type of guy who really dedicated himself, he’d be making $23m a year.  Instead, he plays like a $15m a year guy and gets paid $15m a year. 

 

You can’t really fault a guy for being exactly who he’s always been.  If you want an elite LT, you either draft someone and hope they become elite or you find someone who is already elite and pay them elite money.

[AuntieEm]

2 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

This is what gets me. As an athlete growing up I never really watched what I ate, but I was always one of the “skinny” ones, it wasn’t a big deal. If I had made it to professional status, you best believe I would’ve been looking for any and all advantages I could get and that would include dieting and training better.
 

As a 300+ pound athlete who doesn’t have the best body, I can’t understand how Dion doesn’t take it more seriously. He’s got the money security, sure, but just from a prideful standpoint, he should be asking himself “what’s the best way I can get the better of my competition?” and that starts with conditioning, not huffing and puffing like you ran a mile in the first quarter. I’m disappointed he’s never took care of himself that way, but what I think doesn’t matter. He just needs to start trending back up. Somehow, someway.once you are 8n shape its much easier 9n a person  to do enough to maintain that conditioning than to yoyo back and forth.   Even if he let his conditioning be just a tad under his playing condition be less stress on him so if he did suffer long covid symptoms that would also benefit his overall health.  

Indeed plus 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Trading Dion saves the Bills roughly 9 million this season, while incurring about 7 mil dead cap for next year.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/dion-dawkins-21805/

 

No idea how this would look (and would never happen because of his value in the locker room) but what could you get in return for something like this? 
 

MLB and some pieces?

[3rdand12]

On 8/21/2023 at 3:24 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

Im not as down on Dawkins as most, but I believe he has the 5th highest cap hit on the team if I am not mistaken, so I get why there are higher expectations around him.  I think Dion will be better this year without that trash can Saffold next to him.  

 

I am much more concerned with Brown at RT than I am with anything on the left side.  I am hoping that the presence of O'Cyrus and more reps to get rust off help Brown take a step forward this year, but until we see that I am going to remain concerned.

The new guard was doing nicely, why was Dawkins worsening >Its not like playing next to Saffold lol
Dion better turn up the cardio and change his playlist to metal or old school , Straight out of Compton for his workouts.
 Do the Tighten up Dion 😋

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Trading Dion saves the Bills roughly 9 million this season, while incurring about 7 mil dead cap for next year.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/dion-dawkins-21805/

 

No idea how this would look (and would never happen because of his value in the locker room) but what could you get in return for something like this? 
 

MLB and some pieces?

 

Well if they have capable replacement plus a capable backup you consider trading him but ol is so hard to find capable and once he is in shape he can be capable.  So I only trade him if they got 2 equal or better on roster 

 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

9 hours ago, AuntieEm said:

 

Well if they have capable replacement plus a capable backup you consider trading him but ol is so hard to find capable and once he is in shape he can be capable.  So I only trade him if they got 2 equal or better on roster 

 

Didn’t you hear, Van Demark hasn’t missed an assignment. LT1!

[BarleyNY]

https://twitter.com/jackduffin/status/1684187145169149956?s=46&t=YCtwdE4Hu9f12jkTstxw9A

 

Average offensive tackle compensation notice for current market value comparison purposes. Looks like it’s about $19M/yr for an average player at that spot. Tytus Howard, RT, of the Texans just got a three year extension worth $56M. $36.5M guaranteed.

 

This goes a long way in explaining why the Bills have stuck with Dawkins and Brown. What it doesn’t explain is why they haven’t tried harder in the draft to improve there or get better prospects in the pipeline. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by BarleyNY

[LabattBlue]

33 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

What it doesn’t explain is why they haven’t tried harder in the draft to improve there or get better prospects in the pipeline. 

Too many Day 2 picks pissed away on undersized LB’s, and RB’s. 

[Warriorspikes51]

1 minute ago, LabattBlue said:

Too many Day 2 picks pissed away on undersized LB’s, and RB’s. 

I wanted Dawand Jones in round 3

[BarleyNY]

9 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

I wanted Dawand Jones in round 3

I know the book isn’t written on either one, but imagine the right side with Torrence and Jones together. 

[machine gun kelly]

52 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

https://twitter.com/jackduffin/status/1684187145169149956?s=46&t=YCtwdE4Hu9f12jkTstxw9A

 

Average offensive tackle compensation notice for current market value comparison purposes. Looks like it’s about $19M/yr for an average player at that spot. Tytus Howard, RT, of the Texans just got a three year extension worth $56M. $36.5M guaranteed.

 

This goes a long way in explaining why the Bills have stuck with Dawkins and Brown. What it doesn’t explain is why they haven’t tried harder in the draft to improve there or get better prospects in the pipeline. 

Barley,

 

Agreed, but they had to bolster other aspects of the roster.  I look at Dorian as a red shirt year backup to Milano, while being groomed for the mic in 24.

 

I can see as we have more pics next year and with the comp an extra 3rd, taking a Tackle high unless Brown somehow puts it together.  This is a familiar scene with Dawkins thinking he’s in the 70’s he goes to camp to get in shape vs being in shape.  He will put it together.  He’s cheap for a LT on a 2nd contract.

 

Its too early, but we’ll need a Safety as well as Hyde’s contract will be up and we’ll have one more year with Poyer.  Take the safety a year early so they can groom him for the Hyde or Poyer role and Rapp swing in 24 for the starting job vs. big nickel this year and backing up our 30 something guys.

 

Lastly, we’ll probably take a WR high as they are cheaper than free agents.

[Augie]

2 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Didn’t you hear, Van Demark hasn’t missed an assignment. LT1!

 

Should we just go ahead and put him up on the Wall at the home opener? I mean, why waste time?   🤷‍♂️

[BarleyNY]

25 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Barley,

 

Agreed, but they had to bolster other aspects of the roster.  I look at Dorian as a red shirt year backup to Milano, while being groomed for the mic in 24.

 

I can see as we have more pics next year and with the comp an extra 3rd, taking a Tackle high unless Brown somehow puts it together.  This is a familiar scene with Dawkins thinking he’s in the 70’s he goes to camp to get in shape vs being in shape.  He will put it together.  He’s cheap for a LT on a 2nd contract.

 

Its too early, but we’ll need a Safety as well as Hyde’s contract will be up and we’ll have one more year with Poyer.  Take the safety a year early so they can groom him for the Hyde or Poyer role and Rapp swing in 24 for the starting job vs. big nickel this year and backing up our 30 something guys.

 

Lastly, we’ll probably take a WR high as they are cheaper than free agents.

 

Agreed, MGK. I think the play at LT is to draft one next season to develop behind Dawkins. That doesn’t have to be in the first. Cash outlays to Dawkins this year and next are definitely great bargains for even average LT play - and he’s been a tick above that to date. But I think the Bills prioritized a lot of other positions over RT, which is why they need their third rounder to work out there. I like that they took an OL in the second this year. I hope that shift to prioritizing the offense continues. 

 

I’ll add that their draft and FA missed on the DL and OL have really hurt. They tried to fix the DL problem by dropping $30M a year on Von Miller, but then the knee happened. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by BarleyNY

[Warriorspikes51]

4 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

I know the book isn’t written on either one, but imagine the right side with Torrence and Jones together. 

exactly. By the time he got to the 3rd round, it was worth the risk to take him based on size and talent alone. 

He's so massive that even if a player gets around his reach it takes an extra second to do it 

[BarleyNY]

11 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

exactly. By the time he got to the 3rd round, it was worth the risk to take him based on size and talent alone. 

He's so massive that even if a player gets around his reach it takes an extra second to do it 

 

He could be an outstanding RT. Word is that the Browns are very happy with him overall, but he does have some mental lapses - false starts, occasional missed assignment. But he is so big (but not fat) and fast that when he’s gotten beat, he usually has been able to recover and still win the rep. 

[Buffalo716]

6 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

https://twitter.com/jackduffin/status/1684187145169149956?s=46&t=YCtwdE4Hu9f12jkTstxw9A

 

Average offensive tackle compensation notice for current market value comparison purposes. Looks like it’s about $19M/yr for an average player at that spot. Tytus Howard, RT, of the Texans just got a three year extension worth $56M. $36.5M guaranteed.

 

This goes a long way in explaining why the Bills have stuck with Dawkins and Brown. What it doesn’t explain is why they haven’t tried harder in the draft to improve there or get better prospects in the pipeline. 

The bills drafted Cody Ford to play tackle in the 2nd... Busted out.... McDermott took Dawkins .... Then they took Spencer brown in the 3rd... Tommy Doyle the same draft 

 

Then Luke Tenuta ... Signed Darryl Williams , queesenberry ... Van demark a high upside 

 

Tackle is a position that needs reps... They don't peek until they're around 30 if healthy ... And they need repetitions to get better

 

Can't just be throwing first round picks at right tackle... They're putting resources into it .. but sometimes these guys need 3 years to develop... Even some can't miss tackles turn out to be pretty Miss... It's not easy 

 

 

 

[BarleyNY]

34 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The bills drafted Cody Ford to play tackle in the 2nd... Busted out.... McDermott took Dawkins .... Then they took Spencer brown in the 3rd... Tommy Doyle the same draft 

 

Then Luke Tenuta ... Signed Darryl Williams , queesenberry ... Van demark a high upside 

 

Tackle is a position that needs reps... They don't peek until they're around 30 if healthy ... And they need repetitions to get better

 

Can't just be throwing first round picks at right tackle... They're putting resources into it .. but sometimes these guys need 3 years to develop... Even some can't miss tackles turn out to be pretty Miss... It's not easy 

 

 

 

 

Just a few comments:

- You say that Van Demark is “high upside”. Wow. Please defend that. He was an UDFA last season and couldn’t get on the active roster for the Colts. Just because he looked good against scrubs in preseason this year doesn’t mean he can even play in this league, much less play at a high level. 

- Good OTs hit their peak well before 30. You can’t be serious. 

- Lotta teams spend first (or second) round picks on OTs. There just aren't that many people in the world that big who can move as required for the position. The scarcity is a big reason the Texans just dropped a ton of cash on an average RT. Because you know, if you put a poor one out there they could lose you a season of your HOF QB on any given play. And who needs that?

Edited August 24, 2023 by BarleyNY

[rusty shackleford]

5 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Should we just go ahead and put him up on the Wall at the home opener? I mean, why waste time?   🤷‍♂️

Seems like a lot of effort, knowing we are going to be moving shortly. 

[Augie]

Just now, rusty shackleford said:

Seems like a lot of effort, knowing we are going to be moving shortly. 

 

We’re moving? Did they finally figure all that out? We’re going downtown, right? Are they doing a dome? 

 

 

Sincerely, 

 

Rip VanWinkle

[Buffalo716]

26 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Just a few comments:

- You say that Van Demark is “high upside”. Wow. Please defend that. He was an UDFA last season and couldn’t get on the active roster for the Colts. Just because he looked good against scrubs in preseason this year doesn’t mean he can even play in this league, much less play at a high level. 

- Good OTs hit their peak well before 30. You can’t be serious. 

There are plenty of line coaches who say it takes 5 to 7 years to develop a tackle fully... Tristan wirfs is the best RT in the league and he is still getting better .. hell peak at 28-29

 

Nobody is a finished product.... Absolutely even the best tackles peak around 28-29-30... Not at 25.. then decline at like 32-33

 

And as a long time scout I've known who  Van Demark is... Just because you're an undrafted free agent doesn't mean you can't have high upside? Jason Peters hello

 

He is insanely raw... But you look for traits with offensive tackles

 

He has the prototype size for a LT... He has long arms ... He can move, good athlete, a good punch and he's a blind side protector... I knew scouts who were trying to get him drafted in the 7th round

 

He has good explosion too

 

He was a low floor high ceiling guy which is why he went undrafted.. but there were definitely rumblings he could get drafted

 

He has a lot of potential down the road

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Buffalo716

[BarleyNY]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

There are plenty of line coaches who say it takes 5 to 7 years to develop a tackle fully...

 

Nobody is a finished product.... Absolutely even the best tackles peak around 28-29-30... Not at 25.. then decline at like 32-33

 

And as a long time scout I've known who  Van Demark is... Just because you're an undrafted free agent doesn't mean you can't have high upside? Jason Peters hello

 

He is insanely raw... But you look for traits with offensive tackles

 

He has the prototype size for a LT... He has long arms ... He can move, good athlete, a good punch and he's a blind side protector... I knew scouts who were trying to get him drafted in the 7th round

 

He has good explosion too

 

He was a low floor high ceiling guy which is why he went undrafted.. but there were definitely rumblings he could get drafted

 

He has a lot of potential down the road

 

 

 

I have no issue with the Bills taking a flyer on a young, raw, physically gifted player. But that’s not the same thing as spending draft capital and cap dollars appropriately and wisely on the OL. The Bills have fallen short in those regards over the last 7 years. 

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I have no issue with the Bills taking a flyer on a young, raw, physically gifted player. But that’s not the same thing as spending draft capital and cap dollars appropriately and wisely on the OL. The Bills have fallen short in those regards over the last 7 years. 

I'm all for drafting the big uglies

 

We just seem to take the wrong ones recently 

[Peace Frog]

Maybe this is what he meant by 'Schnowman'.

[Dopey]

On 8/20/2023 at 8:12 AM, LabattBlue said:

I agree.  I have had Covid twice and each time I gained 100 pounds. 

So, one fat ass complaining about another fat ass?!? Brilliant!!  

[LabattBlue]

17 hours ago, Dopey said:

So, one fat ass complaining about another fat ass?!? Brilliant!!  

Living up to your name if you couldn’t tell that was a joke. 😂

[Dopey]

5 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Living up to your name if you couldn’t tell that was a joke. 😂

Back atcha. It was a joke. Maybe I should have included a smiley face. My bad. 😂
Go Bills!!

Edited August 25, 2023 by Dopey