Kaiir Elam Interview By Cover 1, great insight into his development last year and prep for 2023.

[stosh64]

Love this kid, expecting great things this season.  Cover 1 knocking it out of the park.

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by stosh64

[GunnerBill]

Interesting piece on the Athletic at the weekend about Kansas City drafting McDuffie who (wrongly based on my info) lots of people presume the Bills would have taken and then panicked and traded up for Elam. 

 

The Chiefs according to the article had four first round corner grades - Sauce, Stingley, McDuffie and Elam. And they worked out the parameters of the trade up with New England 2 days before the draft at a point when they thought McDuffie might be already out of reach. So while they stop short of saying it one wonders whether in another world Elam might have been their trade up target. It also rather supports Beane's thesis that Elam wasn't dropping much further. If other teams had them graded anything like the Chiefs and Bills he was at that point the only 1st round corner left. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by GunnerBill

[John from Riverside]

The cover one was a very good session with Elam. It goes into the insight of what he was thinking in certain place and just a really good listen.

[colin]

i trust our team to draft, sign, and develop secondary players better than literally anyone else.

[Einstein]

I hope he figures it out. He played significantly better in the playoffs than he did in the regular season.

 

Unlike Gunner I do believe the Bills would have preferred McDuffie. The look on their faces when KC moved up to get him told a story. And the Bills said Elam was their last 1st round grade. So either you believe the Bills had McDuffie as a 2nd round grade (which makes no sense), or the Bills had McDuffie higher than Elam. But it doesn’t matter now.

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I hope he figures it out. He played significantly better in the playoffs than he did in the regular season.

 

Unlike Gunner I do believe the Bills would have preferred McDuffie. The look on their faces when KC moved up to get him told a story. And the Bills said Elam was their last 1st round grade. So either you believe the Bills had McDuffie as a 2nd round grade (which makes no sense), or the Bills had McDuffie higher than Elam. But it doesn’t matter now.

 

Where was this video?  As for the rest, they could have had McDuffie as a 1st rounder and after he got selected, Elam would have been the last 1st round graded player left on their board.  And why doesn't it make sense that McDuffie could have been rated a 2nd rounder by them?  Woolen was rated a post-4th rounder by everyone.

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I hope he figures it out. He played significantly better in the playoffs than he did in the regular season.

 

Unlike Gunner I do believe the Bills would have preferred McDuffie. The look on their faces when KC moved up to get him told a story. And the Bills said Elam was their last 1st round grade. So either you believe the Bills had McDuffie as a 2nd round grade (which makes no sense), or the Bills had McDuffie higher than Elam. But it doesn’t matter now.

 

No it doesn't. It might mean the Bills had McDuffie as a 1st, but had Elam higher OR it might mean that McDuffie was not on their final board because he doesn't meet their physical profile. 

 

And I repeat someone much closer to the team than I has since confirmed to me that McDuffie wasn't their target. 

[Einstein]

41 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

it might mean that McDuffie was not on their final board because he doesn't meet their physical profile

 

if he didn't meet their physical profile, then there is no reason to meet with him pre-draft, not to mention the reports after the draft that Beane was high on McDuffie.

 

KC also moved up ahead of us for a reason - just like we moved ahead of Dallas because we know they were high on Kincaid, KC may have moved ahead of us because they knew we were high on McDuffie.

 

41 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

And I repeat someone much closer to the team than I has since confirmed to me that McDuffie wasn't their target. 

 

Isn't it amazing how the player any team gets was always "their target all along"? This is a common trope. When a team loses the player they wanted, it always become "oh we wanted option B the entire time".

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Where was this video?

 

I saw it on a tweet once, where there was massive discussion of the Bills wanting McDuffie.

 

It was a video of the Bills board room and it was just announced that the Chiefs moved up (and everyone knew it was to get McDuffie), and Terrance Gray exasperates "they moved ahead of us" and the scout to his left is looking worried, and Beane starts to get on the phone to move up as well.

 

Then you add to the fact that KC moved ahead of us for a reason. They didn't waste a 3rd round pick jumping ahead of us because they thought we were taking Elam.

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

if he didn't meet their physical profile, then there is no reason to meet with him pre-draft, not to mention the reports after the draft that Beane was high on McDuffie.

 

KC also moved up ahead of us for a reason - just like we moved ahead of Dallas because we know they were high on Kincaid, KC may have moved ahead of us because they knew we were high on McDuffie.

 

 

Isn't it amazing how the player any team gets was always "their target all along"? This is a common trope. When a team loses the player they wanted, it always become "oh we wanted option B the entire time".

 

Reports from who? I bet my source is better placed to know. 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

So how did McDuffie do his first season ?  Better than Elam ?

Sorry I don't follow the chiefs that closely.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I saw it on a tweet once, where there was massive discussion of the Bills wanting McDuffie.

 

It was a video of the Bills board room and it was just announced that the Chiefs moved up (and everyone knew it was to get McDuffie), and Terrance Gray exasperates "they moved ahead of us" and the scout to his left is looking worried, and Beane starts to get on the phone to move up as well.

 

Then you add to the fact that KC moved ahead of us for a reason. They didn't waste a 3rd round pick jumping ahead of us because they thought we were taking Elam.

 

They had done the deal to move up in principle two days before the draft when they potentially thought McDuffie was gone. I think had McDuffie gone at say #16 the Chiefs may well have gone to #21 anyway and taken Elam. The article is pretty clear it was about being in position to get one of their 4 first round corner grades. They were slightly surprised McDuffie was there. It wasn't an impulsive "McDuffie is there, let's jump the Bills"

5 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

So how did McDuffie do his first season ?  Better than Elam ?

Sorry I don't follow the chiefs that closely.

 

Yea more consistent certainly, although not without his own struggles - the Superbowl being one. He was always more pro-ready than Elam though. 

[Don Otreply]

All these opinions on the Elam pick presented as facts… 

 

Note that certain posters find / create a negative view of management and the pick, same old same old. 

 

I expect Kaiir (jack) Elam to have a very productive upcoming season and career with Buffalo, but maybe that’s just me, 

[Einstein]

6 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

So how did McDuffie do his first season ?  Better than Elam ?

Sorry I don't follow the chiefs that closely.

 

Yes, McDuffie was significantly better than Elam in their rookie season. Doesnt mean he will always be better. But "so far" he is.

 

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Reports from who? I bet my source is better placed to know. 

 

I think it was Billswire (it's been a year).

[eball]

@GunnerBill -- why even bother arguing with @Einstein?  He has already told us he's the smartest person in the room.  Multiple times.

 

[Einstein]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

They had done the deal to move up in principle two days before the draft when they potentially thought McDuffie was gone. I think had McDuffie gone at say #16 the Chiefs may well have gone to #21 anyway and taken Elam. The article is pretty clear it was about being in position to get one of their 4 first round corner grades. They were slightly surprised McDuffie was there. It wasn't an impulsive "McDuffie is there, let's jump the Bills"

 

It was the day before the draft. And they were talking to the Patriots because the Patriots were right above us in the draft order. That was the entire point of talking to NE and working that trade before the draft. They didn't pick the Patriots out of thin air.

 

They wanted McDuffie the entire time and they knew they had to get in front of us to guarantee getting him. "Veach had his eye on him right from the beginning” Andy Reid said and the Chiefs GM said they moved up to get ahead of teams that needed a CB. Who needed a CB ahead of them? The Bills. “Knowing some of the team needs that were directly in front of us (were looking for a CB)" - Veach.

 

It's all circumstantial evidence, but the evidence is strong.

 

[SCBills]

14 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Yes, McDuffie was significantly better than Elam in their rookie season. Doesnt mean he will always be better. But "so far" he is.

 

 

I think it was Billswire (it's been a year).

“significantly better”…

 

I think most people would say both were solid in their rookie years.

 

The biggest difference is narrative.  
 

McDuffie got more of a leash and is entrenched in his starting spot.  

 

Elam, despite making plays in his time on the field, still hasn’t locked down a spot and always had a longer ways to go given his lack of experience playing zone. 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

It was the day before the draft. And they were talking to the Patriots because the Patriots were right above us in the draft order. That was the entire point of talking to NE and working that trade before the draft. They didn't pick the Patriots out of thin air.

 

They wanted McDuffie the entire time and they knew they had to get in front of us to guarantee getting him. "Veach had his eye on him right from the beginning” Andy Reid said and the Chiefs GM said they moved up to get ahead of teams that needed a CB. Who needed a CB ahead of them? The Bills. “Knowing some of the team needs that were directly in front of us (were looking for a CB)" - Veach.

 

It's all circumstantial evidence, but the evidence is strong.

 

 

No, it only fits perfectly if that is already the answer in your head. The article also says they were surprised he was there and that they were determined to secure one of their guys. 

[Logic]

We've heard directly that Elam was, at times, not performing well in practice last year. That's what seems have led to his not winning the starting job outright throughout his rookie season.

With that said, as the season went on, he played pretty well when the games actually counted. Beane said as much, too, I believe.

The question is, can he clean up the practice stuff? Can he be dependable and in the right place often enough in a practice setting to earn the trust of the coaching staff, so that he can seize that CB2 spot and not let it go?

I anticipate the Benford/Elam/Jackson battle going right down to the wire this preseason, but in terms of draft capital invested...it sure would be nice if Elam won the job.

[Dr.Sack]

Great interview. Much better than talking heads.

[Big Blitz]

It’s unfortunate he’s being coached to not do the things Sauce does routinely.  
 

They put the flags away in January fellas - I’d much rather him not sweat too much his hands.   

[JGMcD2]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

I hope he figures it out. He played significantly better in the playoffs than he did in the regular season.

 

Unlike Gunner I do believe the Bills would have preferred McDuffie. The look on their faces when KC moved up to get him told a story. And the Bills said Elam was their last 1st round grade. So either you believe the Bills had McDuffie as a 2nd round grade (which makes no sense), or the Bills had McDuffie higher than Elam. But it doesn’t matter now.

The Buffalo Bills did not say that Kaiir Elam was their "lowest graded first round talent" they said he was their "last first round grade of the remaining players."

“We had a good grade on Kaiir and we were down to one player in the first round on our board,” Beane said.
 

It's entirely plausible that both had first round grade, the Bills had Elam rated higher than McDuffie, and they traded up to secure the final first round talent available on their board. 

 

Your interpretation of this situation seems to be purposefully negligent. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by JGMcD2

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

The Buffalo Bills did not say that Kaiir Elam was their "lowest graded first round talent" they said he was their "last first round grade of the remaining players."

“We had a good grade on Kaiir and we were down to one player in the first round on our board,” Beane said.
 

It's entirely plausible that both had first round grade, the Bills had Elam rated higher than McDuffie, and they traded up to secure the final first round talent available on their board. 

 

Your interpretation of this situation seems to be purposefully negligent. 

 

His interpretation is based on what we call in the trade "policy based evidence making." 

[JGMcD2]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

I saw it on a tweet once, where there was massive discussion of the Bills wanting McDuffie.

 

It was a video of the Bills board room and it was just announced that the Chiefs moved up (and everyone knew it was to get McDuffie), and Terrance Gray exasperates "they moved ahead of us" and the scout to his left is looking worried, and Beane starts to get on the phone to move up as well.

 

Then you add to the fact that KC moved ahead of us for a reason. They didn't waste a 3rd round pick jumping ahead of us because they thought we were taking Elam.

Terrance Gray could be worried because they were down to the last first round grade on their board... not because they took McDuffie.

 

The nervousness could be tied to the need to move up to secure their last first-round talent... not who Kansas City selected.  They were sitting there at 25 thinking that if McDuffie or Elam keep falling, they can stand pat and get either one, or have a smaller trade up if neither goes until 22 or 23.  

 

You're hyper-fixated on who was selected and not all of the other factors that play into the situation. 

 

Again, it seems to be purposefully negligent. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by JGMcD2

[Einstein]

18 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

The Buffalo Bills did not say that Kaiir Elam was their "lowest graded first round talent" they said he was their "last first round grade of the remaining players."

“We had a good grade on Kaiir and we were down to one player in the first round on our board,” Beane said.
 

It's entirely plausible that both had first round grade, the Bills had Elam rated higher than McDuffie, and they traded up to secure the final first round talent available on their board. 

 

Your interpretation of this situation seems to be purposefully negligent. 

 

You're right. It could have been either or. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Yes, McDuffie was significantly better than Elam in their rookie season. Doesnt mean he will always be better. But "so far" he is.

 

 

I think it was Billswire (it's been a year).

 

He missed some time with injury, but he started every game after that and played almost every snap in the postseason.  They were much better as a defense with him in the lineup, even if Hurts shredded them in the super bowl.  And i still won't forgive the league for that bush league call that gave the game to KC and killed the clock. 

 

They drafted Watson and Williams as well - watson looks like a player too.  They also still have Sneed who is very good.  Total remake and they're all on rookie deals.  That Veach guy is very good at his job.  Pacheco and Watson in the 7th round - and they both are major contributors to a super bowl win.  

[Einstein]

44 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No, it only fits perfectly if that is already the answer in your head. The article also says they were surprised he was there and that they were determined to secure one of their guys. 

 

That's true. 

 

But answer me this - if the Chiefs didn't think we were going to pick McDuffie, why would they move ahead of us? They could have moved behind us, and not wasted a third rounder. Patriots clearly didn't want a CB (they traded the pick). And GB didnt need one (they went LB). The Titans and Bucs were willing to trade their picks (and did).

 

They clearly moved ahead of us because they felt we wanted their guy. It's the same reason we moved ahead of Dallas. We had information that they wanted Kincaid.

[Einstein]

53 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I think most people would say both were solid in their rookie years.

 

The biggest difference is narrative. 

 

Come on SCBills. Even the most ardent Bills homer can not think McDuffie wasn't significantly better than Elam in year 1.

 

That doesn't mean Elam won't be the better long-term player, but last year, McDuffie was significantly better.

 

Elam was even a healthy scratch at one point late in the season. The coaching staff drastically cut his snap count too (from 80's in the beginning of season, to 50's in the late season, which is even worse when you considered that Benford was hurt). His PFF grade was in the 50's (McDuffie in the 70's).

[JGMcD2]

13 minutes ago, Einstein said:

But answer me this - if the Chiefs didn't think we were going to pick McDuffie, why would they move ahead of us? They could have moved behind us, and not wasted a third rounder. Patriots clearly didn't want a CB (they traded the pick). And GB didnt need one (they went LB). The Titans and Bucs were willing to trade their picks (and did).

They moved up to take a cornerback... they didn't know whether we were taking McDuffie or not. Kansas City knew we wanted a cornerback and per @GunnerBillcomment earlier from The Athletic article had McDuffie and Elam left as round one talent.

 

They wanted to jump and make sure they got one before the Bills (or any other team) could move up and take one. Beane said that was part of his reason for moving up, other teams may have wanted to jump up and grab a cornerback and knew we may want one. 

 

You asked the question earlier why Buffalo would bring McDuffie in for a pre-draft visit if he didn't fit their "physical profile." Scenarios like this are exactly why... you make teams guess who you're truly interested in or not. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by JGMcD2

[Bray Wyatt]

17 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

That's true. 

 

But answer me this - if the Chiefs didn't think we were going to pick McDuffie, why would they move ahead of us? They could have moved behind us, and not wasted a third rounder. Patriots clearly didn't want a CB (they traded the pick). And GB didnt need one (they went LB). The Titans and Bucs were willing to trade their picks (and did).

 

They clearly moved ahead of us because they felt we wanted their guy. It's the same reason we moved ahead of Dallas. We had information that they wanted Kincaid.

 

Probably because they knew we were going to take a cb, and wasnt sure which one, so they went and got the one they wanted

[eball]

Good lord.  I've never seen someone so desperate to be "right" in my life as this @Einstein dude.  It's pathetic.

 

[SCBills]

18 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Come on SCBills. Even the most ardent Bills homer can not think McDuffie wasn't significantly better than Elam in year 1.

 

That doesn't mean Elam won't be the better long-term player, but last year, McDuffie was significantly better.

 

Elam was even a healthy scratch at one point late in the season. The coaching staff drastically cut his snap count too (from 80's in the beginning of season, to 50's in the late season, which is even worse when you considered that Benford was hurt). His PFF grade was in the 50's (McDuffie in the 70's).

Would our staff have played McDuffie?

 

My issue is more with their handling of Elam, than Elam himself. 
 

…and no, I don’t think McDuffie was “significantly” better.  One got playing time and the other got spot duty .. in which he typically made plays. 
 

At a certain point, you have to let players learn on the fly and develop over the course of a season.  
 

KC was forced to do that with their draft picks.. and it worked out for them.  We’re still playing this Mickey Mouse game with Elam, Benford and friggin Dane Jackson. 
 

Edited June 22, 2023 by SCBills

[RyanC883]

11 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Would our staff have played McDuffie?

 

My issue is more with their handling of Elam, than Elam himself. 
 

…and no, I don’t think McDuffie was “significantly” better.  One got playing time and the other got spot duty .. in which he typically made plays. 
 

At a certain point, you have to let players learn on the fly and develop over the course of a season.  
 

KC was forced to do that with their draft picks.. and it worked out for them.  We’re still playing this Mickey Mouse game with Elam, Benford and friggin Dane Jackson. 
 

 

I like all of Elam, Benford and Jackson.  But the staff needs to let Elam play more for him to show what he has.  And let him play press/physical. 

[Allen2Moulds]

Unless you're personally connected to Beane, or someone else in that war room, we'll never know.

 

I'd like to focus more on Elam's potential. He has elite physical traits, but is a bit behind on experience, especially playing zone.

After listening to Beane say....I wish I could say that he doesn't work his tail off (weird comment), I assumed that it had to be an intelligence issue. But it seems like he is fairly intelligent, and also has pretty good instincts. The only thing missing is experience. In the video he says he only started playing 6 years ago (8th grade). That gives me a lot of hope, that there is a ton of room to grow, and that he's more likely to achieve it, given his work ethic. McDermott and staff need to give this kid whatever amount of rope he needs.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Allen2Moulds

[BuffaloBill]

4 hours ago, colin said:

i trust our team to draft, sign, and develop secondary players better than literally anyone else.

 

 

True, I just wish they could sprinkle some of this magic on both o & d lines.

[Einstein]

46 minutes ago, SCBills said:

My issue is more with their handling of Elam, than Elam himself. 

 One got playing time and the other got spot duty .. in which he typically made plays. 

 

I hear you. But I think part of the reason the staff didn’t give Elam more playing time is because of his poor play.

 

For example, Elam played 80% of the defensive snaps in the first 6 games. Then his usage went down. As if the coaches said “we have seen enough”.

 

And it’s not a rookie thing. Because Benford, another rookie, was played more (when healthy).

 

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Come on SCBills. Even the most ardent Bills homer can not think McDuffie wasn't significantly better than Elam in year 1.

 

That doesn't mean Elam won't be the better long-term player, but last year, McDuffie was significantly better.

 

Elam was even a healthy scratch at one point late in the season. The coaching staff drastically cut his snap count too (from 80's in the beginning of season, to 50's in the late season, which is even worse when you considered that Benford was hurt). His PFF grade was in the 50's (McDuffie in the 70's).

 

Though his PFF grade in two playoff games was 87.1.  

 

He got better as the season progressed.  

[Big Blitz]

Their advanced numbers aren’t significantly different considering Elam played 13 games vs McDuffies 11.  
 

And not sure if McDuffie ever saw a WR 1 let alone WR 2.

 

Higgins should have seen 15 targets in the AFCCG but no one wants to talk about how bad Burrow choked.  

EDIT I guess he saw 11 - half must have all been in the 4th quarter I remember thinking where is he?

Edited June 22, 2023 by Big Blitz

[hondo in seattle]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Reports from who? I bet my source is better placed to know. 

 

I don't doubt you GB.  You are one of the very best posters on this site.

But aren't you a bit distant from the action?  Have you ever even been to Buffalo?  

[Einstein]

32 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Though his PFF grade in two playoff games was 87.1.  

 

He got better as the season progressed.  

 

Agreed. His playoff performances were quite good.