Chaos Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 My simple methology for evaluating coaches, is to put them into one of three categories. (this applies to all sports and all levels). Generates results better than the talent on the roster would indicate Achieves the results the talent on the roster would indicate Achieves results worse than the talent on the roster would indicate. Four guys in the NFL seem to consistently fall into category 1. John Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin, Andy Reid and and Bill Belichek. I can't remember a single season where I felt like coaching held back thier respective teams. I think Reid and Belichek have been blessed with better talent than Tomlin and Reid over time. I don't think you really evaluate a coach on a single season. By that metric Doug Pederson winning the super bowl with Nick Foles at QB, makes him the greatest coach of the 21st century. I think Zac Taylor and Sean McVay can make the case they have gotten the most of out thier rosters, but they don't quite have the longevity of the other guys. Not sure where I put Pete Carroll. I thought his most successful teams were stacked. But ex-Seahawks don't seem to shine elsewhere. (maybe recency bias from R. Wilson). So maybe Carroll is getting the most out the team. Among recent coaches I think Adam Gase is the leading example of cateogory three. Mike McCarthy may belong thier despite having actually won a super bowl. In history I think Joe Gibbs was the best for achieving results exceeding the roster. Are these three categories a reasonable summary way to evaluate a coach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 You're never going to be able to objectively apply such a criteria. Your results will be filled with subject opinions and conclusions, which invalidates the results. You can guess however! And you can have opinions, but don't present it as some sort of quasi-science. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 7 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: You're never going to be able to objectively apply such a criteria. Your results will be filled with subject opinions and conclusions, which invalidates the results. You can guess however! And you can have opinions, but don't present it as some sort of quasi-science. wierd. never said it was scientific. I think its quite clearly subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Chaos said: My simple methology for evaluating coaches, is to put them into one of three categories. (this applies to all sports and all levels). Generates results better than the talent on the roster would indicate Achieves the results the talent on the roster would indicate Achieves results worse than the talent on the roster would indicate. Four guys in the NFL seem to consistently fall into category 1. John Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin, Andy Reid and and Bill Belichek. I can't remember a single season where I felt like coaching held back thier respective teams. I think Reid and Belichek have been blessed with better talent than Tomlin and Reid over time. I don't think you really evaluate a coach on a single season. By that metric Doug Pederson winning the super bowl with Nick Foles at QB, makes him the greatest coach of the 21st century. I think Zac Taylor and Sean McVay can make the case they have gotten the most of out thier rosters, but they don't quite have the longevity of the other guys. Not sure where I put Pete Carroll. I thought his most successful teams were stacked. But ex-Seahawks don't seem to shine elsewhere. (maybe recency bias from R. Wilson). So maybe Carroll is getting the most out the team. Among recent coaches I think Adam Gase is the leading example of cateogory three. Mike McCarthy may belong thier despite having actually won a super bowl. In history I think Joe Gibbs was the best for achieving results exceeding the roster. Are these three categories a reasonable summary way to evaluate a coach? Not sure I'd put Reid or Tomlin i nthe top tier. It took Reid about 15 years before he won. In any of those years did he not have top talent? Tomlin won when he had top talent, lately he hasn't done all that great. Made the playoffs, but that's about it. Agree on Harbaugh and Belichick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 2. - McDermott has failed immensely. I’d say that if Buffalo brought in a better coach, this team would thrive. I’d even say McDermott might be the Bulls version of Doug Collins. 1 2 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: 2. - McDermott has failed immensely. I’d say that if Buffalo brought in a better coach, this team would thrive. I’d even say McDermott might be the Bulls version of Doug Collins. He's failed in the playoffs. He's done very well in the regular season. People are mostly happy with McD and his results. Most are willing to give him more time to thrive in the playoffs. The next few seasons should tell us a lot about McD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 2 hours ago, newcam2012 said: He's failed in the playoffs. He's done very well in the regular season. People are mostly happy with McD and his results. Most are willing to give him more time to thrive in the playoffs. The next few seasons should tell us a lot about McD. Lol. He has one season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 I always thought your defensive coaches were a run, the ball, the ton and defend on your defense guys That doesn’t seem to be the case in Buffalo. We passed the ball all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 29 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I always thought your defensive coaches were a run, the ball, the ton and defend on your defense guys That doesn’t seem to be the case in Buffalo. We passed the ball all over the place. We have Josh Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 This isn't a methodology. It is just subjective opinion. Jesus, the season can't get here soone enough. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritBill Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 3 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said: Lol. He has one season. Sounds like you're going to kill him if there's no Super Bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Hmm, I just use win percentage, playoff appearances, playoff wins, championships, and coach of the year awards. I feel like that gets me pretty close to how good a coach is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 1 hour ago, BritBill said: Sounds like you're going to kill him if there's no Super Bowl. No. But if I ran a business I’d be looking for a new coach to lead this team if the Bills don’t get there this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsgoodtime Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 If you truly believe Allen is a top 3 qb, our offense is top 3, defense top 5, 0 Superbowl appearances I don't see how you say its not a failure on coaching to not get the talent they have to the SB at least. Many opportunities, many failures. Almost any coach could get this team in the playoffs with Josh Allen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Just now, Gunsgoodtime said: If you truly believe Allen is a top 3 qb, our offense is top 3, defense top 5, 0 Superbowl appearances I don't see how you say its not a failure on coaching to not get the talent they have to the SB at least. Many opportunities, many failures. Almost any coach could get this team in the playoffs with Josh Allen. The problem is Patrick Mahomes and Joe Burrow are really good too. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTruster Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: This isn't a methodology. It is just subjective opinion. Jesus, the season can't get here soone enough. could not agree more. this board has turned into the the "how many oblique ways can I say McD sucks" board. very tired train of OPs. Starting to think the NFL has its playoff format wrong , the all or nothing single elimination tournament format. It causes fans to destructively dump on their team for an entire off season based on a single game, the outcome of which is driven by any number of fairly random factors no one would have anticipated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 The same folks who claim Bean has not done a good job with free agency or the draft now want to spin a narrative that McD hasn’t done a good enough job with the massively loaded team? Talk about conflicting narratives. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleezoid Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 My "methology" is simple; make a good product and it'll be in high demand. The cash will just roll in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, ProcessTruster said: could not agree more. this board has turned into the the "how many oblique ways can I say McD sucks" board. very tired train of OPs. Starting to think the NFL has its playoff format wrong , the all or nothing single elimination tournament format. It causes fans to destructively dump on their team for an entire off season based on a single game, the outcome of which is driven by any number of fairly random factors no one would have anticipated. 21 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: The same folks who claim Bean has not done a good job with free agency or the draft now want to spin a narrative that McD hasn’t done a good enough job with the massively loaded team? Talk about conflicting narratives. This the same poster that during the draft kept making long lists of the obvious players still on the board the Bills might take with their next pick so he could clout chase and say "he correctly predicted the pick" lol So no surprise to see him frame a thread like this to back door his way into a narrative he is trying manufacture of slamming McD again Edited June 16, 2023 by Alphadawg7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 13 hours ago, Chaos said: My simple methology for evaluating coaches, is to put them into one of three categories. (this applies to all sports and all levels). Generates results better than the talent on the roster would indicate Achieves the results the talent on the roster would indicate Achieves results worse than the talent on the roster would indicate. Four guys in the NFL seem to consistently fall into category 1. John Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin, Andy Reid and and Bill Belichek. I can't remember a single season where I felt like coaching held back thier respective teams. I think Reid and Belichek have been blessed with better talent than Tomlin and Reid over time. I don't think you really evaluate a coach on a single season. By that metric Doug Pederson winning the super bowl with Nick Foles at QB, makes him the greatest coach of the 21st century. I think Zac Taylor and Sean McVay can make the case they have gotten the most of out thier rosters, but they don't quite have the longevity of the other guys. Not sure where I put Pete Carroll. I thought his most successful teams were stacked. But ex-Seahawks don't seem to shine elsewhere. (maybe recency bias from R. Wilson). So maybe Carroll is getting the most out the team. Among recent coaches I think Adam Gase is the leading example of cateogory three. Mike McCarthy may belong thier despite having actually won a super bowl. In history I think Joe Gibbs was the best for achieving results exceeding the roster. Are these three categories a reasonable summary way to evaluate a coach? I evaluate the same way: results versus talent. So, yes, it's reasonable. I can't imagine doing it any other way. 50 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: The same folks who claim Bean has not done a good job with free agency or the draft now want to spin a narrative that McD hasn’t done a good enough job with the massively loaded team? Talk about conflicting narratives. I've noticed that. We haven't won a SB, yet, but we are winning a lot of games. So between Beane and McD, one of them must be doing something right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 4 hours ago, ProcessTruster said: could not agree more. this board has turned into the the "how many oblique ways can I say McD sucks" board. very tired train of OPs. Starting to think the NFL has its playoff format wrong , the all or nothing single elimination tournament format. It causes fans to destructively dump on their team for an entire off season based on a single game, the outcome of which is driven by any number of fairly random factors no one would have anticipated. A best-of-three playoff system would be fairer. But that's not realistic. I think we all have to accept that the system isn't entirely fair and the best team doesn't always win the Super Bowl. No matter what you do with the playoffs, you still only end up with 1 winner. 31 fan nations are going to be upset. GMs, coaches, and QBs will be the principal objects of their wrath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 30 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: We haven't won a SB, yet, but we are winning a lot of games. So between Beane and McD, one of them must be doing something right. For me, three things stand out since 2017 when the two took over. 1. Top three safety duo, and in most years could even argue the #1 duo. I really think the Bills would have finished as the one seed last year if we had Hyde all year. 2. Top three QB play since 2020. 3. Diggs acquisition. Those three things to me have kept the Bills as Super Bowl favorites and annually winning a lot of games. I believe Hyde and Poyer both arrived before Beane was hired as the Bills GM. McD probably gets all the credit for having Whaley sign them. Both probably get credit for really buying into Allen in the lead up to the draft and ultimately drafting Allen. And Beane credit for trading for Diggs. Moving forward, at their ages and now accumulated injuries, it's unrealistic to expect the safety duo to maintain the standard of play they have shown since arriving. Hopefully the D-line finally for once becomes a force. And Diggs, even if he does continue to perform at a top 5 level at the position, we know the offense needs more consistency and juice outside of just Diggs. That was definitely shown last year. For whatever reason, even under Daboll, Diggs has been a near nonfactor in the playoffs games with few exceptions compared to his regular season dominance. It would be nice to see that reversed this season. Lower regular season numbers and other players stepping up and then in the postseason the Bills create and find more open opportunities for Diggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) Yeah, McVay sure has gotten the most out of some real crappy rosters his GM has put together, Taylor too....lol.. wtf is this? Edited June 16, 2023 by Mr. WEO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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