Matt Araiza

[4merper4mer]

4 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Due process should be extended for employment matters. It would be nice to have ownership that exemplified American values. 

How do we do due process for punters?  Net yards per kick?  

[Chicken Boo]

4 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Due process should be extended for employment matters. It would be nice to have ownership that exemplified American values. 

 

American values?  From which century?

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, 4merper4mer said:

How do we do due process for punters?  Net yards per kick?  

Lol I dunno, maybe for starters not firing people for allegations? 

[Chaos]

14 hours ago, purple haze said:

It was the decision they needed to make.  
 

1.  We don’t know what the Bills investigation turned up but it’s always possible other information could arise that they couldn’t foresee.

 

2.  It would be a distraction that was bad for the team as a whole.  Players would be asked about it constantly and the players would have no information one way or the other.  An organization is not potentially derailing their season to keep a rookie punter they can’t definitively say is innocent (even if they think he might be).  
 

3.  There most definitely should be legal consequences for any woman who lies about sex crimes.  But I don’t fault the Bills for making the decision they did.

I don't fault them.  I just said they were the Bills decisions. And they knew the consequences of the decisions.  No one owes them anything for the decisions they made.  It appears all 32 NFL teams would have made the same decision. Certainly no one signed him. 

But there is an alternative decision reality.  Bills could have stood behind Araiza, and said, unless he is arrested or otherwise charged as a crime, this is a matter for the San Diego police, not his employer. In 2023, no employers stand up to the social justice mob, so this may not have been realistic.  But in the 50's no one stood up to the McCarthyist black listing until someone said "enough".    The Bills could have been the ones to say "enough".  They played it safe.  Not faulting them. 

 

[4merper4mer]

1 minute ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Geolocation. 

Geolocation as reported by Yahoo?  The article was not taken from the DA’s account.  It was taken from a person in a meeting likely representing Araiza.  
 

I could say that geolocation put you in the Lucky Charms aisle at Walmart and although there is a good chance this would be true, I still just made it up.  

[Milanos Milano]

2 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Geolocation as reported by Yahoo?  The article was not taken from the DA’s account.  It was taken from a person in a meeting likely representing Araiza.  
 

I could say that geolocation put you in the Lucky Charms aisle at Walmart and although there is a good chance this would be true, I still just made it up.  

It’s out there. The more you know! 

[Starr Almighty]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

There is a sex tape from these events? The only video I'm aware of is when she was "interviewed" for lack of a better term on the porch of the house party where she seems sober enough and claims to be 18.  Obviously, people who were sober earlier in the evening could be too drunk to give consent later in the evening through continual consumption of alcohol and controlled substances.  

 

EDIT: read the article and there is a lot of video evidence indicating exactly what Doc said.

The video on the porch is from the prior night not the night in question.

[K-9]

19 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Lol no. I’m simply an American that still values traditional American values like due process. 

And it was due process that ultimately proved Araiza wasn’t present at the time of the alleged gang rape. 

[Doc]

14 minutes ago, K-9 said:

As it pertains to Matt Araiza, her lawyer’s best financial target in a civil case, absolutely. The exculpatory evidence showing he wasn't even there at the time of the alleged gang rape cannot be denied and I hope the accuser’s lawyer has the good sense to drop the case against him as, even though the bar for conviction in a civil proceeding is much much lower, the DA’s report makes it a very high hurdle imo.

 

But I don’t think she was lying about the hospital visit, treatment for bruises, bleeding from her *****, the rape kit exam, and the results of that rape kit test released by the SDPD that showed the presence of DNA from multiple sources. Not even her lawyer, whom I blame entirely for the untruths put forth by her, could bull#### that aspect of the story.

 

The last paragraph is why I gave her the BOTD when it came to her allegation that she was gang raped by the other defendants.  The problem is that there is zero evidence for it and evidence to the contrary.

[UKBillFan]

10 minutes ago, Chaos said:

I don't fault them.  I just said they were the Bills decisions. And they knew the consequences of the decisions.  No one owes them anything for the decisions they made.  It appears all 32 NFL teams would have made the same decision. Certainly no one signed him. 

But there is an alternative decision reality.  Bills could have stood behind Araiza, and said, unless he is arrested or otherwise charged as a crime, this is a matter for the San Diego police, not his employer. In 2023, no employers stand up to the social justice mob, so this may not have been realistic.  But in the 50's no one stood up to the McCarthyist black listing until someone said "enough".    The Bills could have been the ones to say "enough".  They played it safe.  Not faulting them. 

 

 

They had to. They had no choice. If Araiza was taken to court mid season, leaving them to scrabble for a punter whilst under pressure from perhaps within as well as from the media and fans, it would be another curveball in a season of horrendous ones (not that they knew how 2022 would pan out). It's a shame rookies cannot go on the exempt list as that would have been the most obvious solution, and perhaps it's something the NFL should look at moving forward.

[4merper4mer]

10 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

It’s out there. The more you know! 

The Araiza thing or the Lucky Charms aisle?  Link for either?

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

The last paragraph is why I gave her the BOTD when it came to her allegation that she was gang raped by the other defendants.  The problem is that there is zero evidence for it and evidence to the contrary.

As it pertains to the defendants in the civil case yes, absolutely. My only point she didn’t seem to lie about going thru a traumatic sexual assault given the hospital report and rape kit results released by the SDPD. 

[BrooklynBills]

17 hours ago, Warcodered said:

I mean if his story from the article is completely accurate and he was taking a leak, and she was BSing her friends when she went back inside, then all he really did was be a name in the general area.

I think the insinuation is that he still had sex with her, only the context is way different than her story of being dragged to the side of the house and forced into a sexual situation.  She's also 17 (or was at the time), although she was lying about her age at the party (apparently this also is on video), which is problematic as far as PR is concerned.

 

I think if he had had no interaction with this woman then the Bills likely do not cut him as he would have been quickly removed from the criminal investigation.  The issue always was that he couldn't remove himself from being investigated and the Bills cut him to be rid of the distraction.

[Real McClappy]

 

3 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

They had to. They had no choice. If Araiza was taken to court mid season, leaving them to scrabble for a punter whilst under pressure from perhaps within as well as from the media and fans, it would be another curveball in a season of horrendous ones (not that they knew how 2022 would pan out). It's a shame rookies cannot go on the exempt list as that would have been the most obvious solution, and perhaps it's something the NFL should look at moving forward.

The Bills knew about the case before handing Matt a 4yr, 4mill contract though after winning the starting job.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Real McNasty

[birdo67]

5 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

They had to. They had no choice. If Araiza was taken to court mid season, leaving them to scrabble for a punter whilst under pressure from perhaps within as well as from the media and fans, it would be another curveball in a season of horrendous ones (not that they knew how 2022 would pan out). It's a shame rookies cannot go on the exempt list as that would have been the most obvious solution, and perhaps it's something the NFL should look at moving forward.

Once again, I just love the use of "whilst."

[UKBillFan]

2 minutes ago, Real McNasty said:

 

The Bills knew about the case before handing Matt a 4yr, 4mill contract though after winning the starting job.

 

 

 

True - plus it was in the public domain. Have to wonder about their thought process.

 

The Bills got lucky that Martin was released when he was.

[K-9]

1 minute ago, NUT said:

After his career was ruined by the believe all women mob. They got what they wanted, and it wasn't justice for the "victim".

Certainly his career has been put on hold, but we can’t yet say it’s been ruined forever. Given the DA’s report, there’s good reason for him to be hopeful once the civil suit is either dropped or resolved. 

[Real McClappy]

3 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

True - plus it was in the public domain. Have to wonder about their thought process.

 

The Bills got lucky that Martin was released when he was.

My guess is the Pegulas cut the cord here? It initially seemed like FO was willing to work through it? Just speculation on my end.

 

I don't fault the Bills for making the cut at that time. I really hope Matt rebounds and has a very special NFL career somewhere. That 82yard preseason bomb is still pretty to watch. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Real McNasty

[gjv]

If he has been fully exonerated, why not invite him back to compete for the position?

[Doc]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

As it pertains to the defendants in the civil case yes, absolutely. My only point she didn’t seem to lie about going thru a traumatic sexual assault given the hospital report and rape kit results released by the SDPD. 

 

It could be a lie.  It's also possible she may have been roofied.  I don't know but again, there is evidence disproving what she claimed.

[MJS]

Well, we have another punter now. It doesn't make sense to bring him in. It just sucks that this all happened. I hoped at the time that the Bills would not release him until more facts were out.

 

Personally, I don't care about media storms. You have to do the right thing regardless of how the media or fans will react.

 

What Beane said at the time did make sense, though, that Araiza needed to focus 100% on the legal process, not on football.

[4merper4mer]

12 minutes ago, birdo67 said:

Once again, I just love the use of "whilst."

Fine whatever but I could do without the superfluous “u’s” in every other word.

[K-9]

1 minute ago, NUT said:

America used to be the land of second chances, but no longer. He will still be thought of as a rapist by a large portion of the populace. Facts don't matter anymore, only the narrative.

He’s gonna get second chances once the legal issues are resolved. 
 

Does this forum, this thread, represent the opinions of the populace? If so, and I think it does, he will be exonerated by a majority portion of the populace who realize he was wrongly accused of participating in a gang rape. I submit that will be the preponderant narrative going forward. We’ll see.

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It could be a lie.  It's also possible she may have been roofied.  I don't know but again, there is evidence disproving what she claimed.

I agree that her having sexual intercourse with multiple partners that night may have indeed been consensual, but her wounds certainly suggest it got out of hand given the trauma observed during her examination. Do you dismiss the hospital report and published rape kit results? How could she lie about that?

[1ManRaid]

1 hour ago, Kenosha2Buffalo said:

 

Nobody defends amber heard 

 

I'll give you 3 guesses where you can find thousands of people defending her.  Hint, it starts with T and rhymes with hitter.

[Jauronimo]

15 minutes ago, NUT said:

America used to be the land of second chances, but no longer. He will still be thought of as a rapist by a large portion of the populace. Facts don't matter anymore, only the narrative.

America is still the land of 15th chances if you're talented.  I know you just want to bloviate about all the many ills of society but suggesting NFL players don't get second chances is a particularly bad point.

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, Mango said:

You can certainly be too drunk to give consent. And yes, I have turned down women who were too drunk to do so. This shouldn't be all that contentious. Any attorney on the planet will agree that you can be charged with sexual assault because somebody people cannot give reasonable consent. You may not like it, but it doesn't make it less true. 

 

My issue with this is what happens if the man and the woman are both super drunk? In that situation it appears the man is automatically to blame in most legal settings. To me that makes no sense. It implies that sex is something men do, and something that women have done to them. So if Araiza was drunk at a party and had sex with a drunk woman, you think that classifies as rape? I'll never come around to that kind of thinking.

[K-9]

1 minute ago, NUT said:

No, I don't think that it does. We're all Bills fans.

So you have to be a Bills fan to accept the DA report? You have to be a Bills fan to realize that Araiza was falsely accused and deserves a second chance? People who don’t know the first thing about the Bills and the NFL can sympathize with a young man falsely accused and harmed by the accusation. People have been falsely accused of and pilloried for far worse only to be forgiven by the populace that believed it initially. Have a little faith in your fellow citizens.

[Doc]

12 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I agree that her having sexual intercourse with multiple partners that night may have indeed been consensual, but her wounds certainly suggest it got out of hand given the trauma observed during her examination. Do you dismiss the hospital report and published rape kit results? How could she lie about that?

 

It's amazing the lengths people will go to to hide the (embarrassing) truth.  

[StHustle]

24 minutes ago, NUT said:

No way should he give the Bills a second chance IMO. They caved.

Every team would have. I’m sure he realizes that. At least the Bills believed his story and still wanted to move forward. 100% of teams would have did what the Bills did after things became public.

[The Jokeman]

22 minutes ago, NUT said:

No way should he give the Bills a second chance IMO. They caved.

They didn't cave am sure they cut him in part to let the young man deal full time with the issue at hand which was to clear his name etc. Yet with us getting Martin under a 3 year deal it be tough for Araiza to make the roster. Yet I have no issues if he was brought back in at same contract he initially had with Bills and have him compete for a job. Yet ultimately I expect a team to try and stash them on PS and if he shows the same leg we saw he likely be called up to replace an aging veteran or beat out an lesser experienced guy. 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

It's amazing the lengths people will go to to hide the (embarrassing) truth.  

True. But the hospital report and rape kit results that show something bad happened to that girl are real facts nonetheless. 

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, teef said:

i honestly consider myself lucky that i never really jumped into social media.  I may use it to a minor extent,  but not close to daily.  there's a ton of mob mentality, misinformation, peer pressure.  it's tough.  i'm sure there's a lot of good that can come from it, but we tend to hear far more towards the bad.  i worry about my kids and how this evolves, so i'm just going to try to deal with this on a local level.  who knows how AI is going to change this landscape as well.  it's going to be the wild west of tech.

 

Me and you both teef.

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, NUT said:

Not sure how you can even say this? Maybe our end will be swift at the hands of AI.

I can say it because my experience as a 63 year, life long citizen in this country has proved it over and over and over again. I think your level of cynicism has a lot to do with your lack of faith in your fellow countrymen. 

[Jauronimo]

10 minutes ago, NUT said:

Not sure how you can even say this? Maybe our end will be swift at the hands of AI.

And soup isn't as hot as it used to be!  Nothing to do but sit back and pray that a sinkhole will swallow us up.

[birdo67]

10 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

From her aggressive attitude and proclaimed desire to be excessively promiscuous, I'd wager she was into rough sex.

Go to hell.

[K-9]

7 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

From her aggressive attitude and proclaimed desire to be excessively promiscuous, I'd wager she was into rough sex.

That’s certainly a possibility and shouldn’t be discounted. I wonder how many women who are into rough sex end up going to the hospital, get treated for bleeding vaginas, bruises, abrasions, and get rape kit examinations that show the presence of DNA from multiple men. 

[Milanos Milano]

When should we expect Beane to say anything? Never? 

[Jauronimo]

Just now, IronMaidenBills said:

When should we expect Beane to say anything? Never? 

Are you thirsty for more hollow corporate speech?

[Tommy Callahan]

Same voices all up in Joshes business with his girlfriend, were the same ones wanting this dude gone without any due process.