Quote from Josh highlighting the Bills' flawed thinking...

[Billz4ever]

11 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Maybe, maybe not. We’re going to find out. What will NOT happen is Andy Reid somehow becomes the HC of the Bills for the 2023 season. It seems like that’s what you want ( and who wouldn’t ?) but it’s not happening so what exactly would YOU like to see happen as far as the Bills are concerned? 

I'd like it for sure, but I know it's not going to happen and I accept we have Dorsey back for at least next season.

 

I'm simply wondering if people think Dorsey will show marked improvement over last season and grown as an OC, or does he already have his habits and have a hard time changing anything.  In cases like this, I often feel changes become difficult without having the perspective of someone brought in from the outside to look in.  If you're already on the inside and trying to critique yourself, sometimes you are blind to things that someone else would point out immediately.  Besides some fresh ideas, I hope he has some different sets of eyes looking at the offense to show him what he might be missing or just never thought of before to begin with.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Billz4ever

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, zow2 said:

 

 

Where Beane went wrong is thinking one man, a "closer" on defense would make the difference.  That was assuming the rest of the D could stop the good teams out there.  No one is stopping Mahomes, Burrow, Hurts, etc..  What you have to do is slow them down just enough for your offense to outscore them.  Now we have a 34 years old edge rusher, with a bad knee, who is paid a gazillion dollars and eating up the cap. 

 

He went wrong way before that.

 

After seeing the Bucs beat the Chiefs in the Super Bowl Beane got transfixed on "Must beat the Chiefs, and must beat them with Pass Rush". And he got so wrapped up in that thinking he went and drafted DEs in the first 2 rounds (after using our first pick in the previous draft on a DE as well).

 

He was so blinded by this hot take at the time of "Chiefs can be beat with a pass rush", that he totally forgot about having a balanced, well-rounded plan to build the best overall team possible. Had he been thinking clearly, he wouldve taken Humphrey in the 2nd.

 

A potential stud DE in Rousseau in the 1st, and a stud OL in the 2nd? What a great draft that would've been! Addressing BOTH trenches early. And this isnt in hindsight as there were plenty of us banging the message board for Humphrey in 2021 and Linderbaum in 2022. Yet here we are.

 

That's why I think this entire focus on the Chiefs is a bad mindset. Josh's benign post-Super Bowl quote isnt a big part of it. It was just an example that reminded me of the FO philosophy problem.

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

I'd like it for sure, but I know it's not going to happen and I accept we have Dorsey back for at least next season.

 

I'm simply wondering if people think Dorsey will show marked improvement over last season and grown as an OC, or does he already have his habits and have a hard time changing anything.  In cases like this, I often feel changes become difficult without having the perspective of someone on the outside looking in.  If you're already on the inside and trying to critique yourself, sometimes you are blind to things that someone else would point out immediately.  Besides some fresh ideas, I hope he has some different sets of eyes looking at the offense to show him what he might be missing or just never thought of before to begin with.

He surely has his habits , and it’s not a great sign that he didn’t change much as teams adjusted to his schemes. Hopefully he does some intense self scouting this offseason because the offense is the meal ticket to a SuperBowl win, not McDermotts defensive unit. 

[Success]

This is just PR talk.  It's the "right" thing to say.

 

But teams always build their teams with the competition in mind.  KC might not come out & say it - but they're looking at QB's like Allen & Burrow when they make personnel decisions on defense. At minimum.

 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Bills' Josh Allen gives props to Chiefs, Patrick Mahomes: 'You gotta find ways to be like them'

https://www.nfl.com/news/bills-josh-allen-gives-props-to-chiefs-mahomes-it-s-a-copycat-league-you-gotta-f

 

 

I've heard this before from Beane and McDermott (and probably others) and now from Allen. We need to be like KC. We need to build the team to beat KC...

 

WRONG

 

Because I guarantee you that KC isnt trying to be like anyone else. They're simply trying to be the best team in the NFL regardless of what anyone else is doing.

 

THAT is what McBeane and Co. should be doing. Stop peeking over the fence and trying to copy another team and just go build the best team in the entire NFL. Go be that team that everyone wants to copy. Because by the time you see what they are doing, make the moves to copy them, and bring it to fruition... they are already 2 more steps ahead that you can't copy.

 

This is such a 2nd place mentality it makes me sick.

If the bills would’ve been more like the patriots during the patriots era, we would’ve unseated them much faster
 

It’s OK to respect your opponent. It’s OK to recognize the fact that they do things well you can respect them and still want to beat the hell out of them.

[LABILLBACKER]

40 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

We should have been building the OL regardless if the Chiefs did it or not. That's the whole point. I dont need the Chiefs to tell me to build the OL.

 

By "copying what the Chiefs do" we let them draft Creed Humphrey first because we were busy "copying" them by building our Pass Rush which they did 2 years prior.

 

As long as we stay in "copy the Chiefs" mode, we will always be 1-2 years behind them.

Dude I was the one banging on the table after the Houston game to start building a dominant OL behind Josh. And guess what, it never happened. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Hard disagree.

 

We do need to learn to be like them offensively.  Its a night and day difference watching their offensive play calling and designs that scheme guys open...not only open...wide open.  

 

The two TD passes to Toney and then Sky Moore in the SB were the exact same routes on opposite sides, and both were wide open and untouched...and both were plays they ran many times for scores or first downs all year.  Those guys are wide open because of the overall play design, not just their route. 

Or look at those shovel passes almost like runs up the middle they do with guys like Kelce on down and short or near endzone.  These plays have a high degree of success and its do to the creativity they have built into their offense.  

 

We had defenders talking about the limited route trees our guys run, or knowing exactly where we were going on certain plays.  They have said that both offensively and defensively.  Kelce last year humiliated Frazier on National TV saying if he plays it like that again hit me on the seem its wide open...and that is exactly what happened to get the FG in 13 seconds.  

 

Everything we do is so vanilla and the opponents keep coming up with answers to counter us.  This year, our offense felt like it was lacking hard in creativity, situational awareness, schemes to get guys open, or even just general best use of personnel.  We have a RB drafted to catch passes and get into space in Cook, yet we don't throw him many balls and frequently run him up the middle instead.  We trade for Hines, like the 12th most expensive RB in the league and don't even try to incorporate him into the offense.  

 

So...sorry, I absolutely agree we need to be more like KC...not saying copy what they do, but we need to inject a massive heaping of better creativity, better schemes, better situational awareness, and better use of personnel on both sides of the ball.  

Worst part is those were plays we ran under Daboll.

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Bills' Josh Allen gives props to Chiefs, Patrick Mahomes: 'You gotta find ways to be like them'

https://www.nfl.com/news/bills-josh-allen-gives-props-to-chiefs-mahomes-it-s-a-copycat-league-you-gotta-f

 

 

I've heard this before from Beane and McDermott (and probably others) and now from Allen. We need to be like KC. We need to build the team to beat KC...

 

WRONG

 

Because I guarantee you that KC isnt trying to be like anyone else. They're simply trying to be the best team in the NFL regardless of what anyone else is doing.

 

THAT is what McBeane and Co. should be doing. Stop peeking over the fence and trying to copy another team and just go build the best team in the entire NFL. Go be that team that everyone wants to copy. Because by the time you see what they are doing, make the moves to copy them, and bring it to fruition... they are already 2 more steps ahead that you can't copy.

 

This is such a 2nd place mentality it makes me sick.

I agree to an extent, though I think the “2nd place mentality” stuff is a bit overdramatic.   Josh usually doesn’t reveal much in his interviews.   He could have just meant, you have to find ways to win like KC this off-season.  
 

If you read into it more, I think what Josh meant was that the Bills need to build an unstoppable offense that can overwhelm teams.  I think this is what he was hunting at.

 

Where I’ll agree with you is that I do think the Bills were built to Kansas City in 2022 - which they did.   The problem was they didn’t match up as well to another good team like Cincinnati.  They just need to get better overall regardless of who may have won the Super Bowel.   

[Fan in Chicago]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

.. they are already 2 more steps ahead that you can't copy.

 

This is such a 2nd place mentality it makes me sick.

We should be building a team that can slow down offenses like the Chiefs and Bengals. Then put team investment in the Offense to outscore both. Neither of this needs a copying of their strategy. Also, every team, especially the top ones, will constantly evolve. If the Bills seek to copy the 2022 Chiefs, we would still be 1 years behind them.

 

[JohnNord]

 

22 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

He went wrong way before that.

 

After seeing the Bucs beat the Chiefs in the Super Bowl Beane got transfixed on "Must beat the Chiefs, and must beat them with Pass Rush". And he got so wrapped up in that thinking he went and drafted DEs in the first 2 rounds (after using our first pick in the previous draft on a DE as well).

 

He was so blinded by this hot take at the time of "Chiefs can be beat with a pass rush", that he totally forgot about having a balanced, well-rounded plan to build the best overall team possible. Had he been thinking clearly, he wouldve taken Humphrey in the 2nd.

 

A potential stud DE in Rousseau in the 1st, and a stud OL in the 2nd? What a great draft that would've been! Addressing BOTH trenches early. And this isnt in hindsight as there were plenty of us banging the message board for Humphrey in 2021 and Linderbaum in 2022. Yet here we are.

 

That's why I think this entire focus on the Chiefs is a bad mindset. Josh's benign post-Super Bowl quote isnt a big part of it. It was just an example that reminded me of the FO philosophy problem.

 

I think this is fair criticism.  The high picks spent on Basham and Epinesa really hurt this roster badly.  

[Fan in Chicago]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Who do the Chiefs try to copy then?

They should copy the Bills so that they would lose in the playoffs and leave the SB to us 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I prefer the term "toxic"

 

She can't even wink right.

[Solomon Grundy]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Bills' Josh Allen gives props to Chiefs, Patrick Mahomes: 'You gotta find ways to be like them'

https://www.nfl.com/news/bills-josh-allen-gives-props-to-chiefs-mahomes-it-s-a-copycat-league-you-gotta-f

 

 

I've heard this before from Beane and McDermott (and probably others) and now from Allen. We need to be like KC. We need to build the team to beat KC...

 

WRONG

 

Because I guarantee you that KC isnt trying to be like anyone else. They're simply trying to be the best team in the NFL regardless of what anyone else is doing.

 

THAT is what McBeane and Co. should be doing. Stop peeking over the fence and trying to copy another team and just go build the best team in the entire NFL. Go be that team that everyone wants to copy. Because by the time you see what they are doing, make the moves to copy them, and bring it to fruition... they are already 2 more steps ahead that you can't copy.

 

This is such a 2nd place mentality it makes me sick.

Wanna find a way to be like them...? Start taking more of the shorter routes/checkdowns!! The prior year they were saying that Mahomes was "falling off" in his play. His problem, according to Andy Reid/him was that he wasn't taking what the defenses was giving him. In the Super Bowl, Mahomes longest pass completion was 23 yards. 

[GreggTX]

We need to add a couple studs on the OL and serious threats at RB and WR2. Between all of our guys in the slot, I think we'd be better off using our resources on the OL. I think that's Beane's and McDermott's biggest drawback. They just haven't done enough for the OL and I believe it's the #1 reason why we can't win the SB. Josh is our greatest asset. Give him better protection and a solid run game and he'll have his best season to date.

 

[4th&long]

I disagree. it is a copy cat league. I wish the bills would be more like the top teams on defense. 

[GoBills808]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I prefer the term "toxic"

 

lol

 

i never realized she doesn't know how to wink

[transplantbillsfan]

4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Bills' Josh Allen gives props to Chiefs, Patrick Mahomes: 'You gotta find ways to be like them'

https://www.nfl.com/news/bills-josh-allen-gives-props-to-chiefs-mahomes-it-s-a-copycat-league-you-gotta-f

 

 

I've heard this before from Beane and McDermott (and probably others) and now from Allen. We need to be like KC. We need to build the team to beat KC...

 

WRONG

 

Because I guarantee you that KC isnt trying to be like anyone else. They're simply trying to be the best team in the NFL regardless of what anyone else is doing.

 

THAT is what McBeane and Co. should be doing. Stop peeking over the fence and trying to copy another team and just go build the best team in the entire NFL. Go be that team that everyone wants to copy. Because by the time you see what they are doing, make the moves to copy them, and bring it to fruition... they are already 2 more steps ahead that you can't copy.

 

This is such a 2nd place mentality it makes me sick.

 

Boy... you're taking that statement awfully literally

[Mr. WEO]

Lee Smith just tweeted for Josh to just stay on his freakin couch and let dude like "Dorse", trained by "Dabes", F-ing terrorize the league next year.

 

Sheeesh, Josh is too soft for Lee Smith's Buffalo Bills.... 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Mr. WEO

[Don Otreply]

4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Bills' Josh Allen gives props to Chiefs, Patrick Mahomes: 'You gotta find ways to be like them'

https://www.nfl.com/news/bills-josh-allen-gives-props-to-chiefs-mahomes-it-s-a-copycat-league-you-gotta-f

 

 

I've heard this before from Beane and McDermott (and probably others) and now from Allen. We need to be like KC. We need to build the team to beat KC...

 

WRONG

 

Because I guarantee you that KC isnt trying to be like anyone else. They're simply trying to be the best team in the NFL regardless of what anyone else is doing.

 

THAT is what McBeane and Co. should be doing. Stop peeking over the fence and trying to copy another team and just go build the best team in the entire NFL. Go be that team that everyone wants to copy. Because by the time you see what they are doing, make the moves to copy them, and bring it to fruition... they are already 2 more steps ahead that you can't copy.

 

This is such a 2nd place mentality it makes me sick.

This is Josh’s mild mannered way of kicking Beane, McDermott, and Dorsey in the nuts over there combined schematic failures, 

 

 

it could happen..

[K-9]

4 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

In all seriousness, I somewhat agree with Josh and Beane.  I get - and agree - with what you're saying, as far as not wanting to copy the Chiefs, per se, because like you said - we'll always be behind if that's the plan.

 

But I'm interpreting this a little differently.

 

I think it's more of: we need a better O-line; we need better pass catching options; we need better coaching.  That's really what most teams need.  Those are also all areas in which Kansas City is better than Buffalo.

 

That's just my take, anyway.

 

Oh ... one more thing ... not quitting midway through the first quarter of a playoff game would be a nice enhancement, too.

Gugny once again bringing the astute erudition to the discussion.