Brick-By-Brick, the NFL Losing Me As A Fan

[Billz4ever]

4 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

yea, it took the air out of the moment but was letter of the rule and no one’s shown it inconsistent yet… not my favorite call but definitely not egregious as highlighted this far.

you came and made an unsubstantiated claim that should be easy to substantiate- I’m not sure what to say about your dislike of being questioned on it. Don’t make the claim if you don’t plan to back it up somehow? 

Like I said, I don't bark at your command and I'm not scouring though game footage to satisfy your demands.  So enjoy your "win" here since it's clear winning the argument is your only goal.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Billz4ever

[cgg716]

People complaining about politics have never watched sports it seems, but I’ll leave that there because officiating complainers are worse. Philly got several key calls, gave away 7 free points and the defense and ST was trash after half time, but it’s the refs, just stop

[BarleyNY]

4 hours ago, Gregg said:

I don't like all the political stuff with the game either. That is the world we live in today. The game itself was fantastic. Many times, the game doesn't live up to the hype but this one did. What sucks is we now have a long offseason. Baseball (Yankee fan here) is around the corner. That helps but nothing beats football.

In particular I thought the NFL’s  use of Pat Tillman and his death as a PR prop was disgusting. 

[Malazan]

5 hours ago, pocoboy said:

I hate to say it, but I don't feel that they want guys like me as consumers anymore. I don't tune in for theatrics, politics, or the type of pop music that litters this "spectacle."

 

And then, we finally get to the true reason that those who are their loyal, week-in and week-out customers tune in, and then they have systems in place which allow for 1 of 7 underpaid, part-time officials to ruin our primary focus. They take the game and turn it into a mockery.

 

All of this thrown together, and it gives me the feeling I have better ways to waste my Sunday afternoons. Goodell & the NFL are ruining something I've loved since childhood.

 

And I even wanted (ever so slightly) for the Chiefs to win.

Wut?

 

I think the officiating is an issue (well, more the complexity of the rulebook trying to account for everything), but underpaid is not any part of the problem. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

For the older fans…was the officiating this questionable in the 80s/90s? 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

In the time you’ve spent typing it you could’ve found examples of all the other holds ignored to put this to bed 

Not a hold, but in the early second quarter when the Chiefs were down 14-7 and with a third and 8 from their own 27 yard line, there was a blatantly obvious PI on Smith-Schuster (the defender clearly grabbed his arm and pulled it back before the ball got there) that wasn't called. I mean, it was BLATANT. I'm guessing you remember it -- Smith Schuster was livid, and rightly so. The non-call took a possession away from the Chiefs. Hurts fumbled it on the Eagles next possession, so I guess you can say "no harm no foul," but one can't predict the future. The point is, they were letting some stuff go in the secondary in that game. The PI was way more obvious than the hold. 

 

Indeed, one way to think about that defensive holding call was that it was possibly a make-up call for the earlier play (both plays involved J S-S). Perhaps the Chiefs' coaches reminded the refs about it over the course of the game. And perhaps the league may have told the refs at halftime that they blew a call. Who knows?

Edited February 13, 2023 by dave mcbride

[NoSaint]

12 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

In particular I thought the NFL’s  use of Pat Tillman and his death as a PR prop was disgusting. 

I mentioned that being a big surprise in the moment. I thought it was pretty well known but many around me were relatively unfamiliar. I guess they did a little market study and realized they could dust it back off now 

[pocoboy]

1 minute ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

For the older fans…was the officiating this questionable in the 80s/90s? 

 

Maybe, I will say the disappearance of the Super Bowl blow-out is awfully suspicious from a statistical standpoint. Remember when that Bills/Giants Super Bowl was the closest Super Bowl in ages? Now every single one seems to be one score.

[NoSaint]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Not a hold, but in the early second quarter when the Chiefs were down 14-7 and with a third and 8 from their own 27 yard line, there was a blatantly obvious PI on Smith-Schuster (the defender clearly grabbed his arm and pulled it back before the ball got there) that wasn't called. I mean, it was BLATANT. I'm guessing you remember it -- Smith Schuster was livid, and rightly so. The non-call took a possession away from the Chiefs. Hurts fumbled it on the Eagles next possession, so I guess you can say "no harm no foul," but one can't predict the future. The point is, they were letting some stuff go in the secondary in that game. The PI was way more obvious than the hold. 

 

Indeed, one way to think about that defensive holding call was that it was possibly a make-up call for the earlier play. Perhaps the Chiefs' coaches reminded the refs about it over the course of the game. And perhaps the league may have told the refs at halftime that they blew a call. Who knows?

I do recall that - and would be curious to rewatch. That said, one play early in the second quarter I don’t think supports that they swallowed the whistle all game and guys adapted to a style of accepted play and then were surprised suddenly type of claims. 
 

I dont expect a perfect game but a relatively consistent one. Mistakes happen, bad angles happen, etc…. But I would be more outraged if it was an incredibly grabby game all night and then out of nowhere the call comes. I don’t feel like that’s my recollection of the night nor has anyone really shown it. 

[Jauronimo]

5 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

For the older fans…was the officiating this questionable in the 80s/90s? 

The resolution wasn't clear enough to see the football and instant replay was barely a thing so no one really had the tools to dissect the officiating the way they do today.  But yes, the officiating was every bit as bad back then or worse.

 

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1159153/on-this-date-in-sports-november-29-1998-just-give-it-to-them

 

....and the air was fresher back then, and freedom was sweeter, and cats and dogs played in the streets in perfect harmony.....but everything is different now and thats bad!

[Thrivefourfive]

I started watching at 6:30 PST, skipped all the crap. I actually found that the announcers were low key and didn’t get in the way of the game. Although I still can’t help but hear the female ice skater voice from the analyst. Wow FOX. So it seemed like a regular season 1pm game on FOX to me. btw I was done with Super Bowl parties ten years ago, so old man here.

[dave mcbride]

17 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

Maybe, I will say the disappearance of the Super Bowl blow-out is awfully suspicious from a statistical standpoint. Remember when that Bills/Giants Super Bowl was the closest Super Bowl in ages? Now every single one seems to be one score.

There are fewer blowouts, but I think that's a direct result of enforced parity (salary, no more plan B, etc. etc.) -- which is great for the game overall. There have been five blowouts in the past 24 years: Denver over Atlanta, the Ravens over the Giants, Tampa over the Raiders, Seattle over Denver, and Tampa over KC. The Indy win over Chicago wasn't really close either; the Colts dominated that game in every category. Devin Hester had a kickoff return TD that kept the Bears in the game longer than they should have been. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by dave mcbride

[BuffaloRebound]

2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

The resolution wasn't clear enough to see the football and instant replay was barely a thing so no one really had the tools to dissect the officiating the way they do today.  But yes, the officiating was every bit as bad back then or worse.

 

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1159153/on-this-date-in-sports-november-29-1998-just-give-it-to-them

 

The officiating was terrible back then.  Testaverde scored a TD for the Jets that was a yard and a half short that resulted in teams not making the playoffs.  Now people cry conspiracy when a flag is thrown and the player admits he committed the penalty.  NFL officiating problem now is how do you create consistency among the entire crew doing a game when 7 guys can throw a flag, but otherwise NFL officiating is 1000% better than it used to be. 

[dave mcbride]

11 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I do recall that - and would be curious to rewatch. That said, one play early in the second quarter I don’t think supports that they swallowed the whistle all game and guys adapted to a style of accepted play and then were surprised suddenly type of claims. 
 

I dont expect a perfect game but a relatively consistent one. Mistakes happen, bad angles happen, etc…. But I would be more outraged if it was an incredibly grabby game all night and then out of nowhere the call comes. I don’t feel like that’s my recollection of the night nor has anyone really shown it. 

I get all of that. I'm now wondering whether it was Bradberry was the one interfering with J S-S on that earlier play. I can't find a link, though. I think the larger point is that guys are allowed to hold in the NFL. Indeed, Pete Carroll basically got his guys to hold almost every play because he knew the refs wouldn't call it that often (it'd ruin game flow and undermine the entertainment factor). Seattle would lead the league in defensive holding calls, but they'd also lead the league in defense ...

 

Maybe Bradberry had been doing it all game and on a key play the ref decided that enough was enough and that he wasn't going to let him do it yet again with the game on the line. Not calling it there may have been decisive in its own way too, if you know what I mean. Regardless, it was very ticky-tack. I've gotten used to watching Tre White doing worse on virtually every play.  

Edited February 13, 2023 by dave mcbride

[nucci]

15 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

Maybe, I will say the disappearance of the Super Bowl blow-out is awfully suspicious from a statistical standpoint. Remember when that Bills/Giants Super Bowl was the closest Super Bowl in ages? Now every single one seems to be one score.

Free agency and salary cap are the reasons games are closer

[NoSaint]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

I get all of that. I'm now wondering whether it was Bradberry was the one interfering with J S-S on that earlier play. I can't find a link, though. I think the larger point is that guys are allowed to hold in the NFL. Indeed, Pete Carroll basically got his guys to hold almost every play. Seattle would lead the league in defensive holding calls, but they'd also lead the league in defense because you can't call it every play. Maybe Bradberry had been doing it all game and on a key play the ref decided that enough was enough and that he wasn't going to let him do it yet again with the game on the line. Not calling it there may have been decisive in its own way too, if you know what I mean. Regardless, it was very ticky-tack. I've gotten used to watching Tre White doing worse on virtually every play.  

this crew is known for throwing flags, and I think we’d have the montage of clips if it was going on all game. Can you imagine a fan base sitting on their hands if the proof was there? We will see with the all 22. It’s possible, and would change my feelings but there’s some burden of prof if claiming that’s the case 

[Jauronimo]

Just now, BuffaloRebound said:

The officiating was terrible back then.  Testaverde scored a TD for the Jets that was a yard and a half short that resulted in teams not making the playoffs.  Now people cry conspiracy when a flag is thrown and the player admits he committed the penalty.  NFL officiating problem now is how do you create consistency among the entire crew doing a game when 7 guys can throw a flag, but otherwise NFL officiating is 1000% better than it used to be. 

"Just give it to them!"

 

The rule changes have introduced more subjectivity into the game but I think that has gotten better the last 2 years.  I believe we kinda know what a catch is and now we are near 100% on fumble vs incomplete pass.  People love to B word about RTP but I am thankful we aren't watching Case Keenum vs Chad Henne in January.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

13 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

The resolution wasn't clear enough to see the football and instant replay was barely a thing so no one really had the tools to dissect the officiating the way they do today.  But yes, the officiating was every bit as bad back then or worse.

 

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1159153/on-this-date-in-sports-november-29-1998-just-give-it-to-them

 

....and the air was fresher back then, and freedom was sweeter, and cats and dogs played in the streets in perfect harmony.....but everything is different now and thats bad!

The PI call on the hail mary was just as bad as the just give it 'em call.

[Jauronimo]

Just now, NoSaint said:

this crew is known for throwing flags, and I think we’d have the montage of clips if it was going on all game. Can you imagine a fan base sitting on their hands if the proof was there? We will see with the all 22. It’s possible, and would change my feelings but there’s some burden of prof if claiming that’s the case 

9 penalties were assessed for 47 yards total.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

this crew is known for throwing flags, and I think we’d have the montage of clips if it was going on all game. Can you imagine a fan base sitting on their hands if the proof was there? We will see with the all 22. It’s possible, and would change my feelings but there’s some burden of prof if claiming that’s the case 

I get that, and I just don't know because I wasn't paying super-close attention to off-ball activity and couldn't see much downfield because of the limitations of how games are broadcasted. 

3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

"Just give it to them!"

 

The rule changes have introduced more subjectivity into the game but I think that has gotten better the last 2 years.  I believe we kinda know what a catch is and now we are near 100% on fumble vs incomplete pass.  People love to B word about RTP but I am thankful we aren't watching Case Keenum vs Chad Henne in January.

 

 

Skyler Thompson, Tyler Huntley, and Josh Johnson, though (not to mention Brock Purdy). And oh yeah: Christian McCaffrey.

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I get that, and I just don't know because I wasn't paying super-close attention to off-ball activity and couldn't see much downfield because of the limitations of how games are broadcasted. 

I think we are at a glass half full vs half empty crossroads of how to approach it. I happen to enjoy the game more when I’m not upset about a call being poor until it’s actually shown to be poor. I get people not wanting to give benefit of the doubt. There have been many issues. But it feels like a fast route to not enjoying the game and starting threads like this about how the nfl is losing you as a fan if you are going to assume it’s a sham until proven otherwise (not YOU, but the OP).

[Malazan]

15 minutes ago, cgg716 said:

People complaining about politics have never watched sports it seems, but I’ll leave that there because officiating complainers are worse. Philly got several key calls, gave away 7 free points and the defense and ST was trash after half time, but it’s the refs, just stop

 

I think you're overlooking the real problem. It's not whether that 1 call decided the game.. it's that every conversation around any game often ends up more about egregious calls or non-calls. Why did several much more obvious penalties go uncalled and then this one get called? That is the particular problem the NFL has with it's officiating. 

 

If a penalty *could* be called on every play then there's a massive problem with the rulebook and the rules are so complex that they can't be enforced appropriately and consistently by the officials then you need to make changes.

[Bobby Hooks]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

Actually I think his point was that modern NFL broadcasts are becoming too much like that reality garbage you're referring to.

imo, he is 100% correct.

 

But great job missing the point and insulting a good guy for no reason. 

I didn’t see an insult in there. His post came off a tad aggressive but he’s kinda right. 
 

What are the guys options? He can either get on board and accept that things change with time, or he can find something else to do with that time. 
 

If he wants to plop himself In front of a tv and get entertained, it’s sports (all of which have become a bit of a spectacle) or new tv shows. 
 

I kinda think you guys are missing the point a bit. The NFL is huge, it’s only going to get bigger and more grandiose. You can either accept that and enjoy it for what it is, or just sit there hating every minute of it because it wasn’t what it once was. That’s your call, but if I felt that way I’d want to find something else to do with that time. 

[WotAGuy]

I wonder how often a player “gets into it” with a ref during a game to the point where the ref decides to make said player an example, or set him straight, at a critical juncture.  
 

I know refs warn players of questionable techniques during the game, and it would be human nature to set an example of a player that basically was “asking for it” in the ref’s eyes. 

[dave mcbride]

39 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I think we are at a glass half full vs half empty crossroads of how to approach it. I happen to enjoy the game more when I’m not upset about a call being poor until it’s actually shown to be poor. I get people not wanting to give benefit of the doubt. There have been many issues. But it feels like a fast route to not enjoying the game and starting threads like this about how the nfl is losing you as a fan if you are going to assume it’s a sham until proven otherwise (not YOU, but the OP).

I thought you might like what Chris Simms says here: https://www.nbcsports.com/video/super-bowl-lvii-eagles-james-bradberry-holding-penalty-was-right-call

[kota]

blaming a game on a ref is lol.  These are bang bang plays.  

[Alphadawg7]

6 hours ago, pocoboy said:

I hate to say it, but I don't feel that they want guys like me as consumers anymore. I don't tune in for theatrics, politics, or the type of pop music that litters this "spectacle."

 

And then, we finally get to the true reason that those who are their loyal, week-in and week-out customers tune in, and then they have systems in place which allow for 1 of 7 underpaid, part-time officials to ruin our primary focus. They take the game and turn it into a mockery.

 

All of this thrown together, and it gives me the feeling I have better ways to waste my Sunday afternoons. Goodell & the NFL are ruining something I've loved since childhood.

 

And I even wanted (ever so slightly) for the Chiefs to win.

 

LOL...anyone who lists non football stuff like music as a reason they don't like football is just being a wet blanket.  There is literally no artist, band, musician, genre of music where someone isn't going to piss and moan about the music choice.  

 

Refs...sure, I think the vast majority of NFL fans are concerned about the issues with the refs.  This year felt like there were more issues than ever before of just some really blown officiating.  I think if they polled the fans of the game, this might be their lowest rating on how they see the officiating, maybe ever.  

 

You should have just stuck with the ref stuff, all the other stuff just makes you sound like you are whining because the non-football stuff doesn't cater to your specific beliefs and tastes which makes you sound kind of self entitled.  And no offense, who cares.  Literally nobody cares that the non football stuff isn't to someones taste.  Not everything appeals to me either, but who cares, I come to watch the games where none of that stuff is present during the games on the field.  

 

As mutual fans, we all universally care about the integrity of the game.  That is the lane I would have stayed in if I were you.

[Nextmanup]

6 hours ago, nucci said:

Neither do I which is why I didn't start watching till 630pm

Sounds like you unfortunately still got stuck with about 15 minutes of garbage! 

 

It did not end! 

 

There were like 9 staged "events" that had to take place before the damned kickoff.

 

It used to be the singing of the national anthem, and then we played football.

 

Next year I am going to watch tape delayed so I can FF. 

 

IT is insufferable watching non-Bills game in a live format. 

 

There's more crap than actual football.

 

 

[nucci]

25 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Sounds like you unfortunately still got stuck with about 15 minutes of garbage! 

 

It did not end! 

 

There were like 9 staged "events" that had to take place before the damned kickoff.

 

It used to be the singing of the national anthem, and then we played football.

 

Next year I am going to watch tape delayed so I can FF. 

 

IT is insufferable watching non-Bills game in a live format. 

 

There's more crap than actual football.

 

 

that 15 minutes was killing me.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

7 hours ago, pocoboy said:

I hate to say it, but I don't feel that they want guys like me as consumers anymore. I don't tune in for theatrics, politics, or the type of pop music that litters this "spectacle."

 

And then, we finally get to the true reason that those who are their loyal, week-in and week-out customers tune in, and then they have systems in place which allow for 1 of 7 underpaid, part-time officials to ruin our primary focus. They take the game and turn it into a mockery.

 

All of this thrown together, and it gives me the feeling I have better ways to waste my Sunday afternoons. Goodell & the NFL are ruining something I've loved since childhood.

 

And I even wanted (ever so slightly) for the Chiefs to win.

The market is geared towards the younger viewers, and to gain new younger viewers. The NFL knows they have me, a soon-to-be  35 year old who isn’t going anywhere as long as my team stays. They know I’ll watch all my games and maybe even tune in for big time matchups. As a 35 year old, they know I may buy maybe one or two jerseys over the span of the next 8 years.

 

But a 10-15 year old? They’ll convince their parents to get Madden, and trading cards, and team items, and rookie jerseys, and that exciting FA addition’s jersey, and OMG the music that this 15 year old listens to is ALSO the music that the NFL uses!! Quick, book a deal with Nicklodian!

 

NFL knows the money is where the youth is. 

[Ramza86]

6 hours ago, nucci said:

Eagles player admitted to holding. If that was a Bills receiver and it wasn't called, this place would have gone nuts. If it  was still ruined for you then you probably should stop watching

 

I have no idea why he admitted to even holding on that garbage call.

 

It was a terrible call to make in a playoff/SB game. 

 

We all know NFL does its best to manipulate results. 

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

 

Like I said, I don't bark at your command and I'm not scouring though game footage to satisfy your demands.  So enjoy your "win" here since it's clear winning the argument is your only goal.

Starting to think that maybe they got the call right. I hadn't seen this angle, and it's pretty clearly holding. I mean, I know it happens a lot, but it was a game deciding play, and it may be the case that the refs weren't going to let a guy who guessed wrong and was beaten get out of it by holding the guy who beat him.

 

 

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Starting to think that maybe they got the call right. I hadn't seen this angle, and it's pretty clearly holding. I mean, I know it happens a lot, but it was a game deciding play, and it may be the case that the refs weren't going to let a guy who guessed wrong and was beaten get out of it by holding the guy who beat him.

 

 

From a single snapshot in time it might look that way, but when you watch the video of it, the tug was insignificant.  He didn't continue pulling him.  It was a quick boom and done.  Had he kept riding him and had a handful of jersey, sure, that's egregious and I don't even think Philly fans could argue it then, but watch the actual play in full speed and tell me if you think what he did actually impeded the receiver from getting to where the ball was going.  I just don't see it and I've watched it at least 10 times.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 hours ago, pocoboy said:

I hate to say it, but I don't feel that they want guys like me as consumers anymore. I don't tune in for theatrics, politics, or the type of pop music that litters this "spectacle."

 

And then, we finally get to the true reason that those who are their loyal, week-in and week-out customers tune in, and then they have systems in place which allow for 1 of 7 underpaid, part-time officials to ruin our primary focus. They take the game and turn it into a mockery.

 

All of this thrown together, and it gives me the feeling I have better ways to waste my Sunday afternoons. Goodell & the NFL are ruining something I've loved since childhood.

 

And I even wanted (ever so slightly) for the Chiefs to win.

Bad calls have been part of the NFL since you started watching the game. What has changed is better replay and the coverage.

It’s not just NFL either it’s every level. Refs are human and make mistakes. I also believe they feel pressure in big moments just like the players.

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

From a single snapshot in time it might look that way, but when you watch the video of it, the tug was insignificant.  He didn't continue pulling him.  It was a quick boom and done.  Had he kept riding him and had a handful of jersey, sure, that's egregious and I don't even think Philly fans could argue it then, but watch the actual play in full speed and tell me if you think what he did actually impeded the receiver from getting to where the ball was going.  I just don't see it and I've watched it at least 10 times.  

if you think that’s the standard, then you don’t get the rule. It isn’t PI and catchability or getting to the ball doesn’t matter. 
 

Mahomes doesn’t even need to throw it to get the call. He could throw it away completely and get the call.
 

pre throw the jersey stretches like that on a cut, there’s a good chance a flags coming.

[Billz4ever]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

if you think that’s the standard, then you don’t get the rule. It isn’t PI and catchability or getting to the ball doesn’t matter. 
 

Mahomes doesn’t even need to throw it to get the call. He could throw it away completely and get the call.
 

pre throw the jersey stretches like that on a cut, there’s a good chance a flags coming.

And plays like that happen literally all the time and are not called.  I'm not going over this again with you.  You have your thoughts; I have mine and you aren't going to be changing mine so you might as well stop trying.

 

You're acting like I'm the only one that sees them.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

From a single snapshot in time it might look that way, but when you watch the video of it, the tug was insignificant.  He didn't continue pulling him.  It was a quick boom and done.  Had he kept riding him and had a handful of jersey, sure, that's egregious and I don't even think Philly fans could argue it then, but watch the actual play in full speed and tell me if you think what he did actually impeded the receiver from getting to where the ball was going.  I just don't see it and I've watched it at least 10 times.  

With the first angle I watched, I agree with you. But he held him twice, actually, and I hadn't seen this one because it was obscured on the telecast. The ref apparently saw it, though. Mahomes was throwing to a spot, and the grabs by the defender after he was beaten on the release (he guessed wrong -- he was playing a crosser) definitely slowed J S-S down. Not saying he would have caught it, but holds like that obviously can mess up a timing play. If it hadn't been called, I would have been fine with it, but for all we know he had been doing it a lot and the refs were simply fed up and unwilling to let him cheat (literally) KC out of a TD. 

[NoSaint]

4 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

And plays like that happen literally all the time and are not called.  I'm not going over this again with you.  You have your thoughts; I have mine and you aren't going to be changing mine so you might as well stop trying.

 

You're acting like I'm the only one that sees them.

 

 

to be fair, this was a new layer of you missing it. I was simply pointing out that his ability to get to the ball matters as little to the debate as what brand of socks he’s wearing 

 

the jersey stretch is actually one of the few “snapshots” that actually work in this debate. 
 

If you want to go back to it happening all night, I won’t pursue that point with you until you provide actual reference material either 

Edited February 13, 2023 by NoSaint

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

With the first angle I watched, I agree with you. But he held him twice, actually, and I hadn't seen this one because it was obscured on the telecast. The ref apparently saw it, though. Mahomes was throwing to a spot, and the grabs by the defender after he was beaten on the release (he guessed wrong -- he was playing a crosser) definitely slowed J S-S down. Not saying he would have caught it, but holds like that obviously can mess up a timing play. If it hadn't been called, I would have been fine with it, but for all we know he had been doing it a lot and the refs were simply fed up and unwilling to let him cheat (literally) KC out of a TD. 

I didn't see where it affected JSS at all. The only slowdown I saw was when he was turning from running parallel to the sideline to turning it up field and that's when the pull you posted happened.  The pull is in the direction JSS is trying to go so I don't see how that brief second of a pull changed anything.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Billz4ever said:

I didn't see where it affected JSS at all. The only slowdown I saw was when he was turning from running parallel to the sideline to turning it up field and that's when the pull you posted happened.  The pull is in the direction JSS is trying to go so I don't see how that brief second of a pull changed anything.

Curious to know what you think of Chris Simms' take: https://www.nbcsports.com/video/super-bowl-lvii-eagles-james-bradberry-holding-penalty-was-right-call