Who are Sean McDermott's peers?

[1st&ten]

5 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

The Giants really didn't stop the Bills. OJ Anderson and the Giants hogging the ball for 40 minutes was the real problem. If that sack Bruce had in the endzone turned out to be a TD instead of a safety that would have changed everything. 

This is true. Another important factor was Lenorad Smith an excellent safety was injured & couldn't play. Giants QB Hostellier got away with a few ducks that shouldn't have been completed.

[Solomon Grundy]

8 hours ago, Gregg said:

Tomlin should higher. He won a SB and the Steelers have been competitive almost every year he has been there.

He's been making chicken salad out of chicken crap. Should definitely be in 1a/b. IMO, Bills would be a SB winner had he been coaching team with Josh Allen at QB. IMO, 13 seconds would've never had happened. 

6 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Give McDermott a Thurman Thomas on offense and get back to me. 

To only not give him the football?? 

[Ya Digg?]

3 hours ago, Chaos said:

He was hired in 2019, what are you talking about?

Yeah and up until about midway through last year there was talk that he could possibly be fired at the end of the season 

[Solomon Grundy]

6 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I have no idea how you are guys are ranking head coaches.  What criteria are you using?  What functions do you think are the most important of a head coach?  

 

For me, McDermott is very average.  He should probably be ranked 15th or something like that.

 

The people who have made lists have him way higher than that.

 

 

Doug Pederson is getting NO respect!! 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

14 hours ago, beebe said:

TIER 1 - The clear best coaches in the league. 

 

1. Belichick

2. Reid

 

TIER 2 - Super Bowl champions who have had sustained success across 10+ years with the same team.

 

3. Carroll

4. Tomlin

5. Payton

6. Harbaugh

 

TIER 3 - Coaches who are clearly very good but don't have the same long-term track record as the guys above them on this list

 

7. Shanahan

8. Vrabel

9. McVay

10. McDermott

11. Pederson

 

TIER 4 - Coaches who are likely very good but don't have the same short-term track record as TIER 3 guys

 

12. Daboll

13. McDaniel

14. Taylor

15. Sirianni

 

TIER 5 - League average coaches; with an average team, I think they'd lead them to a .500 record. 

 

16. LaFleur

17. Reich

18. Rivera

19. McCarthy

 

TIER 6 - Not sure, larger sample needed

 

20. Stefanski

21. O'Connell

22. Campbell

23. Saleh

24. Ryans

25. Eberflus

 

TIER 7 - Open vacancy coaches

 

26. Vacant

27. Vacant

 

TIER 8 - I've seen enough

 

28. Staley

29. Smith

30. Bowles

31. Allen

32. McDaniels

 

What Makes McD better then Riveria? Riveria has had way more success and he’s taken 2 teams to playoffs and has also gone to the Super Bowl. I would also put Sirriani ahead McD as well as Pederson. 

[QCity]

17 hours ago, Chaos said:

My personal opinion is that QB and HC compromise about 80% of the formula to win a championship. These are generally the two positions that allow the rest of the talent to produce at a higher level (or lower level) than they would otherwise achieve.  

 It is a common exercise for people to group QBs into tiers.  I think it is widely accepted that Allen, Burrows and Mahomes compromise the top tier of QBs and that everyone else is not at their level. 

I have not seen people group HCs in a similar manner.  There seems to be an argument for Kyle Shanahan being the magic coach of 2023 making it to the championship game with a rookie 7th round draft pick at the helm.  And his past success maybe justifies him being in the top tier. 

 

Seems like parsing HC's is harder than QBs.  I think people separate Aaron Rodgers talent from the team failing to make the playoffs this year.  I think people can develop opions about Tua or Deshone Watson independent of their teams success.   Not sure it is easy to do the same with HCs. Pretty sure that Bill Belichek, the only current coach with more than one SB Ring, wasn't a doofus carried along by Tom Brady only, and that all of a sudden he sucks because he is saddled with Zac Jones.  My take on the top tier is that it is 

 

1A) Reid, Belichek, Shanahan and McVay

1B) Zac Taylor. Nick Siriani, Carroll, Harbaugh

2) McDermott, Pederson, Tomlin,  Pederson, Vrabel, Lafleur

2B) Stefanski, Saleh, McDaniel, Daboll

3) Campbell

everyone else below that. 

I am not at all sure my conclusions are correct.  But I am curious  what others think.  I am much more interested overall on where our coaches stack up against the other teams, than how our coaches stack up against past Bills coaching staffs (arguably the lowest bar possible)

 

I see Shanahan and McVay over Harbaugh.  Just delete this clown thread 😂😂

[Gregg]

15 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

nonsense- they punted 5 or 6 times!

Allen and Newton per game averages are eerily similar. And they asked Cam to do everything on offense too… until he aged to where he couldn’t 

 

If I remember correctly Thurman had 125 yards on 15 carries. If the Bills punted it was because they were trying to throw the ball when the Giants were begging them to run it. If they would have run Thurman more then the Giants would have been forced to play the run. That would have opened up the passing game. They still scored 19 points with only having the ball 19 minutes.

[dave mcbride]

16 hours ago, beebe said:

TIER 1 - The clear best coaches in the league. 

 

1. Belichick

2. Reid

 

TIER 2 - Super Bowl champions who have had sustained success across 10+ years with the same team.

 

3. Carroll

4. Tomlin

5. Payton

6. Harbaugh

 

TIER 3 - Coaches who are clearly very good but don't have the same long-term track record as the guys above them on this list

 

7. Shanahan

8. Vrabel

9. McVay

10. McDermott

11. Pederson

 

TIER 4 - Coaches who are likely very good but don't have the same short-term track record as TIER 3 guys

 

12. Daboll

13. McDaniel

14. Taylor

15. Sirianni

 

TIER 5 - League average coaches; with an average team, I think they'd lead them to a .500 record. 

 

16. LaFleur

17. Reich

18. Rivera

19. McCarthy

 

TIER 6 - Not sure, larger sample needed

 

20. Stefanski

21. O'Connell

22. Campbell

23. Saleh

24. Ryans

25. Eberflus

 

TIER 7 - Open vacancy coaches

 

26. Vacant

27. Vacant

 

TIER 8 - I've seen enough

 

28. Staley

29. Smith

30. Bowles

31. Allen

32. McDaniels

 

Doug Pederson’s teams have actually made the playoffs in 4 of the past 5 seasons and his postseason record is 5-3.

[GunnerBill]

It's hard because you have to factor in the GM too. Nick Siriani has done nicely with Philly but he has probably the best GM in football too in Howie Roseman. I'm not sure he is tier 1B as a coach any more than I think Matt LaFleur was tier 1B for winning games with Rodgers. Sean McVay has had really talented rosters with the Rams this year with a poor, injury ravaged, roster it looked to me like he quit on the season about week 10 to me. So it is so dependant on other things. 

 

It's tough. I think McDermott comes somewhere in that 6-10 range and people can legitimately argue about where he falls in that. Probably the best active head coach in the NFL not to have coached in a Superbowl?

[jletha]

20 hours ago, Chaos said:

My personal opinion is that QB and HC compromise about 80% of the formula to win a championship. These are generally the two positions that allow the rest of the talent to produce at a higher level (or lower level) than they would otherwise achieve.  

 It is a common exercise for people to group QBs into tiers.  I think it is widely accepted that Allen, Burrows and Mahomes compromise the top tier of QBs and that everyone else is not at their level. 

I have not seen people group HCs in a similar manner.  There seems to be an argument for Kyle Shanahan being the magic coach of 2023 making it to the championship game with a rookie 7th round draft pick at the helm.  And his past success maybe justifies him being in the top tier. 

 

Seems like parsing HC's is harder than QBs.  I think people separate Aaron Rodgers talent from the team failing to make the playoffs this year.  I think people can develop opions about Tua or Deshone Watson independent of their teams success.   Not sure it is easy to do the same with HCs. Pretty sure that Bill Belichek, the only current coach with more than one SB Ring, wasn't a doofus carried along by Tom Brady only, and that all of a sudden he sucks because he is saddled with Zac Jones.  My take on the top tier is that it is 

 

1A) Reid, Belichek, Shanahan and McVay

1B) Zac Taylor. Nick Siriani, Carroll, Harbaugh

2) McDermott, Pederson, Tomlin,  Pederson, Vrabel, Lafleur

2B) Stefanski, Saleh, McDaniel, Daboll

3) Campbell

everyone else below that. 

I am not at all sure my conclusions are correct.  But I am curious  what others think.  I am much more interested overall on where our coaches stack up against the other teams, than how our coaches stack up against past Bills coaching staffs (arguably the lowest bar possible)

I cant figure out if these tiers are "all time" or "right now". Belichek I think has lost some shine right now but of course hes the GOAT. Why is Siriani a tier about Pederson? Pederson has won a SB (in Philly no less). I dont see how Tomlin is so low either, give his success over a very long period of time.

 

FWIW I would remove 1B and make it all tier 2 and have McD there. I think hes on the same level as Harbaugh, just has gotten the SB yet. I know that wont be popular here but thats my thoughts.

[Chaos]

2 hours ago, QCity said:

 

I see Shanahan and McVay over Harbaugh.  Just delete this clown thread 😂😂

Harbaugh hasn’t been relevent for a decade. mcVay went to the Super Bowl with two mid tier QBs in the last four years. 

1 minute ago, jletha said:

I cant figure out if these tiers are "all time" or "right now". Belichek I think has lost some shine right now but of course hes the GOAT. Why is Siriani a tier about Pederson? Pederson has won a SB (in Philly no less). I dont see how Tomlin is so low either, give his success over a very long period of time.

 

FWIW I would remove 1B and make it all tier 2 and have McD there. I think hes on the same level as Harbaugh, just has gotten the SB yet. I know that wont be popular here but thats my thoughts.

My tiers are my opinion of “right now”. My primary evaluation is to look at each and ask “would this coach likely win a he Super Bowl given Mahomes or Allen as his QB”. It’s all opinion and speculation 

[NewEra]

19 hours ago, Einstein said:

Daboll led a terrible roster to a divisional game. Not sure how you can put him that low.

 

My list

 

 

1) Reid, Belichek, Shanahan

2) Zac Taylor. Nick Siriani, McVay

3) McDermott, Carroll, Daboll, Harbaugh, Peterson, Tomlin,  Pederson, Vrabel, Lafleur

4 Stefanski, Saleh, McDaniel, Campbell

Who is this Peterson guy that keeps being mentioned along with the Pederson guy?

[Mr. WEO]

19 hours ago, MJS said:

I think McVay is too high. His luster has worn off for me.

 

I also think you have Saleh and McDaniels too high.

 

But I think you have McDermott in the right place. He is in that 5 to 10 range. Good coach.

 

Saleh belongs in "everyone else below".

 

17 hours ago, beebe said:

TIER 1 - The clear best coaches in the league. 

 

1. Belichick

2. Reid

 

TIER 2 - Super Bowl champions who have had sustained success across 10+ years with the same team.

 

3. Carroll

4. Tomlin

5. Payton

6. Harbaugh

 

TIER 3 - Coaches who are clearly very good but don't have the same long-term track record as the guys above them on this list

 

7. Shanahan

8. Vrabel

9. McVay

10. McDermott

11. Pederson

 

TIER 4 - Coaches who are likely very good but don't have the same short-term track record as TIER 3 guys

 

12. Daboll

13. McDaniel

14. Taylor

15. Sirianni

 

TIER 5 - League average coaches; with an average team, I think they'd lead them to a .500 record. 

 

16. LaFleur

17. Reich

18. Rivera

19. McCarthy

 

TIER 6 - Not sure, larger sample needed

 

20. Stefanski

21. O'Connell

22. Campbell

23. Saleh

24. Ryans

25. Eberflus

 

TIER 7 - Open vacancy coaches

 

26. Vacant

27. Vacant

 

TIER 8 - I've seen enough

 

28. Staley

29. Smith

30. Bowles

31. Allen

32. McDaniels

 

 

McDaniels took the Dolphins to the playoffs in his first year with chaos at QB and overcame a 17 point deficit to the Bills to come within 3 points in that game while playing a 3rd string rookie QB.

 

You've seen enough?

[Einstein]

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Who is this Peterson guy that keeps being mentioned along with the Pederson guy?

 

No one cares for spelling correction guy on the internet.

[hondo in seattle]

19 hours ago, damj said:

=

 

 

Good enough to get you to the play-offs ... not good enough to win a championship

 

That's what they said about Andy Reid, Bill Belichick, and Tony Dungy...   until they did. 

 

Give it time.  

 

 

[NewEra]

21 hours ago, Einstein said:

Daboll led a terrible roster to a divisional game. Not sure how you can put him that low.

 

My list

 

 

1) Reid, Belichek, Shanahan

2) Zac Taylor. Nick Siriani, McVay

3) McDermott, Carroll, Daboll, Harbaugh, Peterson, Tomlin,  Pederson, Vrabel, Lafleur

4 Stefanski, Saleh, McDaniel, Campbell

 

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

No one cares for spelling correction guy on the internet.

Well, you have Peterson AND Pederson listed.  If you only listed one, I’d concede an spelling error.  You listed both in your own list (not the OPs).  Hence the question. 

[Einstein]

57 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

Well, you have Peterson AND Pederson listed.  If you only listed one, I’d concede an spelling error.  You listed both in your own list (not the OPs).  Hence the question. 

 

Copy & Paste problem. I copied the original posters list that included Peterson and then not realizing, entered my own Pederson.

[transient]

20 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It took Levy 5 years to get to a Super Bowl with 5 Hall of Famers and about another 4-5 All Pros.  

And no free agency or salary cap.

Edited February 2, 2023 by transient

[Einstein]

22 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It took Levy 5 years to get to a Super Bowl with 5 Hall of Famers and about another 4-5 All Pros.  

 

4 years.

 

Levy was hired at the end of the 86 season after Ralph fired Bullough.

 

Levy had already been in 2 Super Bowls by the same point in his Buffalo career that Sean McDermott is in.

[beebe]

8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Saleh belongs in "everyone else below".

 

 

McDaniels took the Dolphins to the playoffs in his first year with chaos at QB and overcame a 17 point deficit to the Bills to come within 3 points in that game while playing a 3rd string rookie QB.

 

You've seen enough?

 

There's McDaniel, as in the Dolphins' Mike McDaniel, who I ranked #13; and McDaniels, as in the Raiders' Josh McDaniels, who I ranked 32nd. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by beebe

[beebe]

9 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Doug Pederson’s teams have actually made the playoffs in 4 of the past 5 seasons and his postseason record is 5-3.

 

Pederson has won more than nine games in a season exactly once in six years and is 51-45 overall. He was so highly regarded by his previous organization that he was fired and promptly replaced by a guy who has made the playoffs both times and just made a Super Bowl with a 14-3 record. 

 

I obviously give Pederson credit for winning a Super Bowl. But to me he's probably closer to being George Seifert, Brian Billick, Gary Kubiak or Mike McCarthy — all one-time Super Bowl winners — than he is to being the next Andy Reid.

 

McDermott has taken five of six teams to the playoffs and has won 10 games, 13 games, 11 games and 13 games the last four years on his way to a 62-35 overall record. Pederson can coach the next 10 years in Jacksonville and I'll make him an underdog to put together the four-year run that McDermott just had.

 

Yes, McDermott has been a postseason failure. But so was Dungy. So was Cowher. So was Reid.

 

The Chiefs overlooked Reid's playoff failures because they thought he was a great coach who had been unlucky. I suspect McDermott is a very good coach who has been unlucky. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by beebe

[Mr. WEO]

39 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

There's McDaniel, as in the Dolphins' Mike McDaniel, who I ranked #13; and McDaniels, as in the Raiders' Josh McDaniels, who I ranked 32nd. 

 

oops...imforgot about McDanielsss

[krf139]

His peers are all nfl coaches yet to win a Super Bowl. Period 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

 

 McDermott's peer would be a pre Super Bowl win Andy Reid, just a shorter coaching career to date. Andy Reid struggled in the postseason in Philly making coaching blunders in the playoffs and many questioned for years whether he could win it all. 

 

 Their regular season win percentage are almost identical with Reid holding a slight advantage .641 vs .639. They rank right next to each other in career win percentage Reid #20th & McDermott #21st all-time(Min. 50 games).

 

 Like McDermott, Reid also had a .500 record in the playoffs the year before he won it, he was 14-14. That's right 14 failures before he finally won one. He's 6-2 in the playoffs since. Let's all hope McDermott doesn't take as long as Reid did. 

 

 

EDIT: Correction Reid was 12-14 before winning the Super Bowl and is 9-2 in the playoffs since.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[Billever76]

On 2/1/2023 at 12:54 PM, Chaos said:

My personal opinion is that QB and HC compromise about 80% of the formula to win a championship. These are generally the two positions that allow the rest of the talent to produce at a higher level (or lower level) than they would otherwise achieve.  

 It is a common exercise for people to group QBs into tiers.  I think it is widely accepted that Allen, Burrows and Mahomes compromise the top tier of QBs and that everyone else is not at their level. 

I have not seen people group HCs in a similar manner.  There seems to be an argument for Kyle Shanahan being the magic coach of 2023 making it to the championship game with a rookie 7th round draft pick at the helm.  And his past success maybe justifies him being in the top tier. 

 

Seems like parsing HC's is harder than QBs.  I think people separate Aaron Rodgers talent from the team failing to make the playoffs this year.  I think people can develop opions about Tua or Deshone Watson independent of their teams success.   Not sure it is easy to do the same with HCs. Pretty sure that Bill Belichek, the only current coach with more than one SB Ring, wasn't a doofus carried along by Tom Brady only, and that all of a sudden he sucks because he is saddled with Zac Jones.  My take on the top tier is that it is 

 

1A) Reid, Belichek, Shanahan and McVay

1B) Zac Taylor. Nick Siriani, Carroll, Harbaugh

2) McDermott, Pederson, Tomlin,  Pederson, Vrabel, Lafleur

2B) Stefanski, Saleh, McDaniel, Daboll

3) Campbell

everyone else below that. 

I am not at all sure my conclusions are correct.  But I am curious  what others think.  I am much more interested overall on where our coaches stack up against the other teams, than how our coaches stack up against past Bills coaching staffs (arguably the lowest bar possible)

No way is McDermott in tier 2 level coaching ..Give McDermott the jets roster I bet he does no better than saleh....give McDermott the Jags do you see him having a better result....I'd even argue McDermott would do no better or more likely worse than what Daboll did with the giants

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Billever76

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, beebe said:

 

Pederson has won more than nine games in a season exactly once in six years and is 51-45 overall. He was so highly regarded by his previous organization that he was fired and promptly replaced by a guy who has made the playoffs both times and just made a Super Bowl with a 14-3 record. 

 

I obviously give Pederson credit for winning a Super Bowl. But to me he's probably closer to being George Seifert, Brian Billick, Gary Kubiak or Mike McCarthy — all one-time Super Bowl winners — than he is to being the next Andy Reid.

 

McDermott has taken five of six teams to the playoffs and has won 10 games, 13 games, 11 games and 13 games the last four years on his way to a 62-35 overall record. Pederson can coach the next 10 years in Jacksonville and I'll make him an underdog to put together the four-year run that McDermott just had.

 

Yes, McDermott has been a postseason failure. But so was Dungy. So was Cowher. So was Reid.

 

The Chiefs overlooked Reid's playoff failures because they thought he was a great coach who had been unlucky. I suspect McDermott is a very good coach who has been unlucky. 

Comparing him to Seifert is ridiculous. Seifert took over one of the most talented teams of all time and Pederson took over a post-Chip Kelly team in disarray and a bottom-of-the-barrel Jax team. And he got fired because of Carson Wentz, who he stopped believing in. And he was correct. And Wentz has proven to be the ultimate coach killer.

[beebe]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Comparing him to Seifert is ridiculous. Seifert took over one of the most talented teams of all time and Pederson took over a post-Chip Kelly team in disarray and a bottom-of-the-barrel Jax team. And he got fired because of Carson Wentz, who he stopped believing in. And he was correct. And Wentz has proven to be the ultimate coach killer.

 

Seifert went 98-30 across eight seasons and didn't finish worse than 10-6 in San Francisco. Then he had a poor Carolina roster, went 15-17 then flamed out with a 1-15 disaster. He's probably an above average coach on the whole. Pederson is probably above average. Way too soon to be called great. 

[Buffalo Super Fan]

Buffalo Bills fans know how I feel on this subject. There is no point too many Bills fans believe in Sean McDermott and Terry Pegula PSE. Give it until 2028 two years after the new Bills stadium when Buffalo still has no Super Bowls in the trophy case potentially more Buffalo Bills, Sabres and Bandits fans will wake up about PSE ownership. Look at SEC Florida Gators football facilities for $85 million dollars than look at the Buffalo Bills football facilities. Look at UB Bulls locker rooms today than look at the Buffalo Bills locker rooms today the Bills aren’t winning anything even with that state money corners will be cut money wasted on nonsense like Community Benefits Agreements. The CBA would be if New York State and Erie County didn’t hand PSE and the NFL owners $850 million dollars.
 

I will stick with the UB Bulls football private donations doing it the right way privately building football facilities, winning bowl games that is fun. Losing with the Buffalo Bills not even interested in competing against the Cincinnati Bengals was a complete embarrassment. The Buffalo Bills, Buffalo Sabres and Buffalo Bandits with PSE as owners will most likely never win again in Buffalo. PSE are bad owners and aren’t fun people they just want your wallet. At least my UB Bulls and Buffalo Bisons win and I have something in my wallet which is a good thing. PSE can take there teams other teams would come to Buffalo if PSE left I am not impressed by PSE business operations of loser ville in Buffalo. We as a community are better than PSE. Sell the teams PSE there not serious about winning championships in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[Punching Bag]

On 2/1/2023 at 12:54 PM, Chaos said:

Seems like parsing HC's is harder than QBs.  I think people separate Aaron Rodgers talent from the team failing to make the playoffs this year.  I think people can develop opions about Tua or Deshone Watson independent of their teams success.   Not sure it is easy to do the same with HCs. Pretty sure that Bill Belichek, the only current coach with more than one SB Ring, wasn't a doofus carried along by Tom Brady only, and that all of a sudden he sucks because he is saddled with Zac Jones.  My take on the top tier is that it is 

 

Beli-CHEAT is hampered by a doofus of a GM who passed on Tua on advice of his friend in Alabama and took Zac Jones, His decision not to have an offense coordinator appears to be GM meddling.  The loss of Director of Spying hurt although I am convinced that even though he has retired he is working remotely.  If only Krafty could fire GM without 

Beli-CHEAT as well.  Time for a complete rebuild.

[PBF81]

McD is very much like Levy except that he doesn't have the overall talent that Levy had.  Both will get you into the playoffs, but neither is going to out coach his counterparts deep in the playoffs.