Neutral Fans thoughts on the game

[PatsFanNH]

Ok I didn’t have a horse in this game but I had a few thoughts on it.

 

1. Running Game - The Bengals had it and the Bills never even tried to establish it. Now in normal weather I can understand this but in snowy conditions like this at least try keep the D honest.

 

2. Screen passes - like running the ball the Bills didn’t sue this till late while the Bengals did it to perfection the entire first half.

 

3. Pass Rush - The Bills were making Burrows move in the first half but he always seemed to find an open receiver when he stepped up in the pocket. Allen was harassed all day, I say that was helped a lot by not doing any sort of run plays or screens.

 

4. injury excuses — Yes the Bills were down 2 DL but the Bengals were down 3 Olineman. Should been advantage Bills.

 

4. Bills looked Emotionally exhausted and just looked tired and out of steam. I say that was especially true of Allen who has to have everything be on him for the O to work with the way it’s called

 

Lastly  Bills fans on here have lost their minds! Allen is still a top 3 QB, The Bills are still a very good team, and this year just seemed to show Allen running out of steam after getting hurt. So to quote Rogers fans here need to RELAX! You still have many more good years ahead.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Bills sucked 🤷🏾‍♂️

[muppy]

Just now, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Bills sucked 🤷🏾‍♂️

*****POUTS*************** Booooooooooooooooooo Concur but Boooooooooo

[boyst]

34 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Ok I didn’t have a horse in this game but I had a few thoughts on it.

 

1. Running Game - The Bengals had it and the Bills never even tried to establish it. Now in normal weather I can understand this but in snowy conditions like this at least try keep the D honest.

 

2. Screen passes - like running the ball the Bills didn’t sue this till late while the Bengals did it to perfection the entire first half.

 

3. Pass Rush - The Bills were making Burrows move in the first half but he always seemed to find an open receiver when he stepped up in the pocket. Allen was harassed all day, I say that was helped a lot by not doing any sort of run plays or screens.

 

4. injury excuses — Yes the Bills were down 2 DL but the Bengals were down 3 Olineman. Should been advantage Bills.

 

4. Bills looked Emotionally exhausted and just looked tired and out of steam. I say that was especially true of Allen who has to have everything be on him for the O to work with the way it’s called

 

Lastly  Bills fans on here have lost their minds! Allen is still a top 3 QB, The Bills are still a very good team, and this year just seemed to show Allen running out of steam after getting hurt. So to quote Rogers fans here need to RELAX! You still have many more good years ahead.

Cant get to the QB if he can complete a pass in less than 2 seconds to a target making only a 5 yard route.

[Ralonzo]

48 minutes ago, boyst said:

Cant get to the QB if he can complete a pass in less than 2 seconds to a target making only a 5 yard route.

 

Particular if they know your DC is just gonna keep running the basic scheme and not adjust for it.

[Simon]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

Ok I didn’t have a horse in this game but I had a few thoughts on it.

 

 

 

Why do you keep repeatedly posting threads in the Off the Wall non-football section that I have to keep relocating?

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Ok I didn’t have a horse in this game but I had a few thoughts on it.

 

1. Running Game - The Bengals had it and the Bills never even tried to establish it. Now in normal weather I can understand this but in snowy conditions like this at least try keep the D honest.

 

2. Screen passes - like running the ball the Bills didn’t sue this till late while the Bengals did it to perfection the entire first half.

 

3. Pass Rush - The Bills were making Burrows move in the first half but he always seemed to find an open receiver when he stepped up in the pocket. Allen was harassed all day, I say that was helped a lot by not doing any sort of run plays or screens.

 

4. injury excuses — Yes the Bills were down 2 DL but the Bengals were down 3 Olineman. Should been advantage Bills.

 

4. Bills looked Emotionally exhausted and just looked tired and out of steam. I say that was especially true of Allen who has to have everything be on him for the O to work with the way it’s called

 

Lastly  Bills fans on here have lost their minds! Allen is still a top 3 QB, The Bills are still a very good team, and this year just seemed to show Allen running out of steam after getting hurt. So to quote Rogers fans here need to RELAX! You still have many more good years ahead.

 

#4 is the main thing I took out of it. They looked spent. Once you get to the point where there is nothing left to give it manifests itself physically and it was obvious both on the field and in the interviews where so many players said they had no energy today.

 

Nothing else really matters because the team wasn't winning today no matter what they did or tried.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[PatsFanNH]

8 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Why do you keep repeatedly posting threads in the Off the Wall non-football section that I have to keep relocating?

My mistake is why

[Ray Stonada]

I agree with your assessment, OP. The lack of easy passes and screens and checkdowns is screamingly obvious. 

 

If you rewatch the Pats playoff "perfect" game from last year (sorry, OP, that might be painful!), you see that the Bills' drives were peppered with dump-offs to Singletary and Singletary runs that went for 6-8 yards a pop. We never went bombs away, even though the line kept Allen much cleaner.

 

The weird thing is that this year our line played much worse and yet Allen and Dorsey didn't slow down the rush with... screens, dump-offs and runs. What the heck!

 

Also agree with Big Turk that this team was flat and exhausted.

 

And your final point really nailed it, OP. Joshua Allen is 26 years old. We will be back for many more seasons. Buffalo needs to make life easier for him, and he needs to let them, and then we will start to dominate on offense again like last year's playoffs.

 

 

[Governor]

I like buying a house you really like and finding out it has termite damage. The bones are bad. You can’t fix it without tearing it down. 

[BRH]

11 hours ago, boyst said:

Cant get to the QB if he can complete a pass in less than 2 seconds to a target making only a 5 yard route.

especially when your corners are playing ten yards off the line.

 

[thenorthremembers]

11 hours ago, boyst said:

Cant get to the QB if he can complete a pass in less than 2 seconds to a target making only a 5 yard route.

So drop everyone into coverage or bring the house but don't try exotic delayed blitzes that don't get there anyways.

[extrahammer]

 

I wondered when they came out so flat and had no real energy if they had just been too burnt on the season. Physically with injuries, mentally with all the adversities, and emotionally too. At the same time we looked so unprepared. IMO that's on coaching. The defense looked hapless for the entire game. 

 

Offense play-calling should be held to account too. Too many games we lacked any creativity on offense. I can't remember any qb design run yesterday, even though we should also be creative outside of Josh making plays with the ball. No screens except the one to Beasley again. Not sure if they've given too much autonomy on offense to Josh because it could be a reigning him in type of thing. 

 

I would be fine if Frazier and Dorsey are replaced. Josh needs an offensive guru with experience in NFL play-calling. I think that's what Daboll brought him. 

 

I think the issues last year with McD are the same this year. You can judge him all you want on the 31 NFL coaches, but I grade him next to the ones who have won Super Bowls, and I think the same issue with game management is a problem. The timeout usage in the playoffs was different than the regular season from what I remember, it got funky in the postseason. IMO it's obvious we get outcoached in games like yesterday, and like the Dolphins wild card game -- even though we won. I just don't think McD has enough experience to coach against Andy Reid and other coaches with similar experience. That being said, Beane nor the Pegulas would hold him to that level of account, and wouldn't make any change with him unless he's not making the playoffs. This offseason will be the most important one since Beane and McD have been here. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by extrahammer

[Trekking]

Bills fans aren’t going crazy reactive. There has been legitimate criticisms for years with these coaches but the Bills have had it all muted because they’re winning and nobody wants the drought ever again. 
 

But when it came time to put it all up all those criticisms came to life and Allen couldn’t hero it anymore. 
 

The coaching staff all needs gone. It’s 7am and they haven’t been fired yet, what gives. Jesse doesn’t play until tomorrow, plenty of time to clean house. 

[LABILLBACKER]

21 minutes ago, Ray Stonada said:

I agree with your assessment, OP. The lack of easy passes and screens and checkdowns is screamingly obvious. 

 

If you rewatch the Pats playoff "perfect" game from last year (sorry, OP, that might be painful!), you see that the Bills' drives were peppered with dump-offs to Singletary and Singletary runs that went for 6-8 yards a pop. We never went bombs away, even though the line kept Allen much cleaner.

 

The weird thing is that this year our line played much worse and yet Allen and Dorsey didn't slow down the rush with... screens, dump-offs and runs. What the heck!

 

Also agree with Big Turk that this team was flat and exhausted.

 

And your final point really nailed it, OP. Joshua Allen is 26 years old. We will be back for many more seasons. Buffalo needs to make life easier for him, and he needs to let them, and then we will start to dominate on offense again like last year's playoffs.

 

 

Clearly Dorsey & Kromer didn't live up to expectations.  The play calling was poor and the 27th ranked OL even worse. Factor that in with a terrible defensive scheme and an emotionally exhausted team and that's what you're going to get. 

[Nitro]

I concur that this long season and its issues ending with the Hamlin injury, the team looked emotionally drained.  

[Ray Stonada]

9 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Clearly Dorsey & Kromer didn't live up to expectations.  The play calling was poor and the 27th ranked OL even worse. Factor that in with a terrible defensive scheme and an emotionally exhausted team and that's what you're going to get. 

 

Yup. Our O-line was really bad a lot this year, and Allen camouflaged it by making crazy plays out of nothing. But Allen got happy feet in the process and stopped trusting the ordinary bread-and-butter plays that you need to win. 

 

[Boatdrinks]

11 hours ago, boyst said:

Cant get to the QB if he can complete a pass in less than 2 seconds to a target making only a 5 yard route.

This ^^^ Bills didn’t cover throw to the flat all afternoon. Bengals ran a copy of the Wilson QB’d Jets game plan and the Bills defense still had no idea how to stop it. Tackling was atrocious and no one could shed blocks. Just an absolute embarrassment vs scrub OL. 

[JerseyBills]

They haven't had a screen or underneath game all year and it's infuriating. 

I hated the long shot to Diggs on the first drive. Even though he was open, it's just a low percentage play and we only needed 2 or 3 yards. Prefer that on early downs or with a lead. Especially after the Bengals went right down the field on the 1st drive. Felt they should have played it safe there to extend the drive 

[Dr. Who]

I really wish we could be in on the Sean Payton sweepstakes.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

o line, d line.  Allen got mauled, few holes for rb.  Burrows threw from a mattress, rb's pranced around.

[CEN-CAL17]

That’s the point… it was more than just yesterday’s game.

 

This team offensively was regressing weekly after the bye week. There were many games fans were left like “a wins a win, but what’s going on”.

 

As far as Diggs, how many games did he disappear? Multiple games Diggs would disappear in a whole half, in close games. This team has zero weapons. And Dorsey is a middle of the pack type coordinator. ESPN radio right now is saying the exact thing. It’s the coaches and the talent around Josh why he’s struggling.

[CEN-CAL17]

lol Josh is being compared Dak Prescott.  

 

Fans need to be honest, is that because of Josh or is that because of this staff and the talent put around him?

 

 

[boyst]

59 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

This ^^^ Bills didn’t cover throw to the flat all afternoon. Bengals ran a copy of the Wilson QB’d Jets game plan and the Bills defense still had no idea how to stop it. Tackling was atrocious and no one could shed blocks. Just an absolute embarrassment vs scrub OL. 

it was read and react scheme line a 1990s afc team.

 

remember those teams? the AFC teams that got walloped by the NFC who knew how to beat the schemes with fast passed, short plays? spurriers fun and gun was an attempt i enjoyed. but yeah, football history has never been kind to read and react.

[SoCal Deek]

Honest assessment? The Bills looked utterly exhausted as a team. Players and coaches alike. 

[Lane Meyer K12]

13 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Ok I didn’t have a horse in this game but I had a few thoughts on it.

 

1. Running Game - The Bengals had it and the Bills never even tried to establish it. Now in normal weather I can understand this but in snowy conditions like this at least try keep the D honest.

 

2. Screen passes - like running the ball the Bills didn’t sue this till late while the Bengals did it to perfection the entire first half.

 

3. Pass Rush - The Bills were making Burrows move in the first half but he always seemed to find an open receiver when he stepped up in the pocket. Allen was harassed all day, I say that was helped a lot by not doing any sort of run plays or screens.

 

4. injury excuses — Yes the Bills were down 2 DL but the Bengals were down 3 Olineman. Should been advantage Bills.

 

4. Bills looked Emotionally exhausted and just looked tired and out of steam. I say that was especially true of Allen who has to have everything be on him for the O to work with the way it’s called

 

Lastly  Bills fans on here have lost their minds! Allen is still a top 3 QB, The Bills are still a very good team, and this year just seemed to show Allen running out of steam after getting hurt. So to quote Rogers fans here need to RELAX! You still have many more good years ahead.

 

Very level-headed and well stated post.

As a lifelong Bills fan, I agree with all points. Not in the burn it all down camp. It was a really bad game at a really bad time. 

It was a real head scratcher as to why they did not run the ball. They have a talented back in Cook and Motor is a hard runner. It seems to me that it would have occurred to the OC to slow down the game a bit and run the ball. Maybe it was the O-line play being bad...who knows there was not enough run attempts to gage it.

The Ravens used the running game the week before to keep them honest, seems the Bills would have taken notice. 

Too much pressure on Allen. Reminds me of the Marino days with Miami.

The pass rush was non-existent for the most part and they did indeed look to be spent from the start. 

[PayDaBill$]

This thread seems like a wash rinse repeat instructions on a shampoo bottle repeating most fan takes made by McD ball washers, neural fans & those on the ledge.  

 

There are some very obvious problems that need fixing.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by PayDaBill$

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

13 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Lastly  Bills fans on here have lost their minds! Allen is still a top 3 QB, The Bills are still a very good team, and this year just seemed to show Allen running out of steam after getting hurt. So to quote Rogers fans here need to RELAX! You still have many more good years ahead.

 

Can't argue with any of your observations on the game.

 

There is still a massive talent gap on both sides of the ball between the Pats and the Bills so I think that is partly why it looks that way to you. But the Bills will have their hands full next season against both the Jets and Dolphins just like they did this year. 

 

I will say, the o-lineman that were missing were a bit of smoke screen because in reality the starting o-lineman that were out were just JAG's so the replacements were not a massive downgrade. 

 

That's why Bengals +6 was the bet of the year IMO. 

[ddaryl]

A lot of us saw our problems very early in the season with losses to the Jets and Dolphins..

Our D scheme and O scheme have exhausted themselves.

We are now on to a minor rebuild. We will need to make hard decidsions this year on salary cap and cap gymnatics is not the answer. We need to draft much better, not many difference makers have been drafted by Beane and Co. Lots of roll players but we need more difference makers

 

[NewEra]

Great post. Agree with everything said.

 

what should’ve been included is Frazier and his fear of getting beat deep. It was obvious the bengals were working the short game and we let them have it all game.  2 yard pass and 4-10 yards RAC all day.  That’s the game I was hoping to see out of us. 
 

instead- James Cook 0 targets. Again.  😖 

[BarleyNY]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Great post. Agree with everything said.

 

what should’ve been included is Frazier and his fear of getting beat deep. It was obvious the bengals were working the short game and we let them have it all game.  2 yard pass and 4-10 yards RAC all day.  That’s the game I was hoping to see out of us. 
 

instead- James Cook 0 targets. Again.  😖 

The madness of blitzing while the CBs played 10 yards off of the WRs was only compounded by the stupidity of having Edmunds be one of the blitzers. That even happened in the red zone. 

[beebe]

the bills began the year as super bowl favorites. they were super bowl favorites at midseason. by the end of the season, after suffering season ending injuries to hyde and miller, arguably the two pillars of the defense, and after the horrible hamlin incident which led to no longer being the #1 seed in the AFC, the bills were essentially still co favorites to win the Super Bowl. 

 

in the opening round, albeit vs a third string QB, the bills were the biggest favorite in playoffs history.

 

in the divisional round, the bills were 6-point favorites vs the bengals (who are just as good as last year's team, when they won the afc and came within a drive of winning the super bowl). 

 

had the bills won, they would have been a near pick em vs the chiefs in the neutral-site game in atlanta.

 

but despite what is stated above, being super bowl favorites only carries a 7-to-1 chance in the preseason.

 

it carries a 4-to-1 chance entering the playoffs.

 

it carries a 2-to-1 chance once you make it to the championship round. 

 

in other words, in a single game, bad things can happen. granted, they seem to happen more often to the bills, but they can happen. it's happened to the chiefs twice in four years. they lost to the patriots, they lost to the bengals. they might lose to the bengals again. 

 

it's fine to be pissed, angry, disappointed. but to say this wasn't a super bowl caliber roster is flat out wrong. the last three years they've had one. it just so happens the bills are up against an all time coach/qb combo in reid and mahomes, and now a bengals roster that is firing on all cylinders. many teams felt the same way the bills feel now in the 90s. shula's dolphins. marty's chiefs. cowher's steelers. 

 

all that being said, the last three years presented the bills' best chance in this current window. it will be hard to field a team next year that's better than the last three. 

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Can't argue with any of your observations on the game.

 

There is still a massive talent gap on both sides of the ball between the Pats and the Bills so I think that is partly why it looks that way to you. But the Bills will have their hands full next season against both the Jets and Dolphins just like they did this year. 

 

I will say, the o-lineman that were missing were a bit of smoke screen because in reality the starting o-lineman that were out were just JAG's so the replacements were not a massive downgrade. 

 

That's why Bengals +6 was the bet of the year IMO. 

This is the only other point I would make. The bengals were missing 3 OL.  2 of which were bad all season (Williams and Collins).  It’s not like the bengals were missing good OT play.  They replaced bad with bad.  Cappa was their best OL so we was a loss.

 

we lost and all pro pass rusher and maybe the best player on our D in Von.  We lost our only good NT and stalwart on our D in Jones.  We lost very good/great DL play and replaced it with bad dL play.  Phillips was useless with 1/2 a shoulder, Settle was exhausted. AJ does the same thing on every play and could be the worst player on the team. Basham got bashed. Shaq is a 1M DE and played like it

 

the injuries had a much larger effect on our D than they did the bengals O

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

the injuries had a much larger effect on our D than they did the bengals O

 

And not to mention, Hyde. I know he was gone most the season but that was an injury that very early in the season I always felt was going to come back and haunt us in the playoffs no matter how well we may have played at times during the season. Hyde and Poyer have really been the backbone of our defense since they both arrived here back in 2017 are whatever year it was. We were playing most the season and the playoffs with just half a Poyer. 

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

And not to mention, Hyde. I know he was gone most the season but that was an injury that very early in the season I always felt was going to come back and haunt us in the playoffs no matter how well we may have played at times during the season. Hyde and Poyer have really been the backbone of our defense since they both arrived here back in 2017 are whatever year it was. We were playing most the season and the playoffs with just half a Poyer. 

Huge loss, no doubt.  I didn’t mention him because the OP talked about the 3 injuries to the bengals OL and 2 injuries to the Bills DL ….and said it should have been advantage Bills.  I disagreed with that point. We lost our 2 biggest offseason investments that were supposed to fix our D.  The D that we fielded yesterday was worse than the d in last years final game.  
 

von replaced Jerry and von didn’t play

Jones replaced Harry and Jones didn’t play

marlowe/Johnson replaced Hyde

 

the only plus would be having Tre back over Levi. 
 

We couldn’t overcome the injuries….especially with the game plan Leslie put together 

[Billsfanatic8989]

I was shocked at how quick Burrow got rid of the ball. It was almost prime Brady like where the OL doesn't matter. Bengals clearly focused on this going into the game. 

 

After it was 14-0, I never felt the Bills would win. Cincinnati is too good and the slow starts eventually caught up to them.

 

 

[Green Lightning]

13 hours ago, boyst said:

Cant get to the QB if he can complete a pass in less than 2 seconds to a target making only a 5 yard route.

Then bat the ball down. We can't do that either.  Cover man to man like the Cincy D did - oops no, we play off ten yards and hope they drop the ball. In other words - ADJUST!. They did a bit, but even on longer drop backs our DLine couldn't get home. Same old story. Three first round picks and two second round picks on the DLine and zero to show for it. 

[clayboy54]

11 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

And not to mention, Hyde. I know he was gone most the season but that was an injury that very early in the season I always felt was going to come back and haunt us in the playoffs no matter how well we may have played at times during the season. Hyde and Poyer have really been the backbone of our defense since they both arrived here back in 2017 are whatever year it was. We were playing most the season and the playoffs with just half a Poyer. 

And Poyer proved to all of us he is a very good SS and not too good at FS.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

That’s the point… it was more than just yesterday’s game.

 

This team offensively was regressing weekly after the bye week. There were many games fans were left like “a wins a win, but what’s going on”.

 

As far as Diggs, how many games did he disappear? Multiple games Diggs would disappear in a whole half, in close games. This team has zero weapons. And Dorsey is a middle of the pack type coordinator. ESPN radio right now is saying the exact thing. It’s the coaches and the talent around Josh why he’s struggling.

It’s crazy how our opponents can completely take him out of the game and we have no answer. 
 

the last 3 season ending losses, Diggs was made a non factor. Daboll made the chiefs pay last year because Davis and Allen were unconscious.  Dorsey had no answer.  

I thought the game was over when Davis dropped yet another pats that hit him perfectly in stride.  You’re a good kid and I’m sure you’ll be in the gym today working your tail off for next season….. but you should be coming off the bench next year. 

2 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

And Poyer proved to all of us he is a very good SS and not too good at FS.

May have been his worst game as a Bill

[Cray51]

2 hours ago, Trekking said:

Bills fans aren’t going crazy reactive. There has been legitimate criticisms for years with these coaches but the Bills have had it all muted because they’re winning and nobody wants the drought ever again. 
 

But when it came time to put it all up all those criticisms came to life and Allen couldn’t hero it anymore. 
 

The coaching staff all needs gone. It’s 7am and they haven’t been fired yet, what gives. Jesse doesn’t play until tomorrow, plenty of time to clean house. 

Firing a top 8 coach in the league is absolutely a bad idea.

 

Dorsey was a first year coordinator, who has shown instances of really solid play calling and creativity.

 

Frazier is who I have a greater concern with.  His scheme requires REALLY solid execution and timing.  It all predicates on a 4 man pass rush that can get to the QB.  The top QBs in our conference (Burrow and Mahomes), are able to exploit this style by either getting the ball out quickly (Burrow) or extending plays (Mahomes).  We need to take a hard look at the defensive style and see where we can adjust.

 

This team relies on Allen on offense, but let's be clear, I dont know of a harder season for a team in the last decade.  Multiple key injuries to their top players, moving home games due to weather, Hamlin's situation.  They were gassed in all phases.  I think the team comes out next year refreshed, and we see more of what we saw at the beginning of the season.