Question for OC Dorsey

[Logic]

19 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

The point is the struggles are imaginary

No they're not.

Here's a number for you: 31 points. That's how many points the Dolphins scored. Why? Not because off offensive prowess on their part. Their absolutely awful offense, led by their absolutely awful third string QB, scored 31 points. Why? How?

It was largely because the Bills offense turned the ball over to them THREE times. That happened. That was real life.

A positive final outcome or scoring output does not mean that the offense did not struggle for stretches of the game.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

No they're not.

Here's a number for you: 31 points. That's how many points the Dolphins scored. Why? Not because off offensive prowess on their part. Their absolutely awful offense, led by their absolutely awful third string QB, scored 31 points. Why? How?

It was largely because the Bills offense turned the ball over to them THREE times. That happened. That was real life.

A positive final outcome or scoring output does not mean that the offense did not struggle for stretches of the game.

It's not struggling. It's learning as a fan to accept higher variance outcomes because of the scheme. If that hasn't been made abundantly clear over the course of this season there's not much more to say.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

No they're not.

Here's a number for you: 31 points. That's how many points the Dolphins scored. Why? Not because off offensive prowess on their part. Their absolutely awful offense, led by their absolutely awful third string QB, scored 31 points. Why? How?

It was largely because the Bills offense turned the ball over to them THREE times. That happened. That was real life.

A positive final outcome or scoring output does not mean that the offense did not struggle for stretches of the game.

 

And gave them 2 short fields with special teams blunders.

[Logic]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

It's not struggling. It's learning as a fan to accept higher variance outcomes because of the scheme. If that hasn't been made abundantly clear over the course of this season there's not much more to say.

If turning the ball over three times and allowing a vastly inferior opponent to hang around and almost getting eliminated from the playoffs in a historic upset doesn't constitute "struggling" but only "high variance due to scheme", then the scheme is a big problem, and we have vastly different definitions of what "struggling" means.

 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

If turning the ball over three times and allowing a vastly inferior opponent to hang around and almost getting eliminated from the playoffs in a historic upset doesn't constitute "struggling" but only "high variance due to scheme", then the scheme is a big problem, and we have vastly different definitions of what "struggling" means.

 

2nd in yards

 

2nd in points

 

it's a you problem

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

No they're not.

Here's a number for you: 31 points. That's how many points the Dolphins scored. Why? Not because off offensive prowess on their part. Their absolutely awful offense, led by their absolutely awful third string QB, scored 31 points. Why? How?

It was largely because the Bills offense turned the ball over to them THREE times. That happened. That was real life.

A positive final outcome or scoring output does not mean that the offense did not struggle for stretches of the game.

some of it was special teams also…2 of the dolphins fg drives started on the 40 after kickoffs.  

 

that Beasley int was just bad luck imo and it gave Miami an extra short field before halftime when they shouldn’t have seen the ball again.  
 

I just don’t get the people saying ‘just throw it underneath’ because that Beasley play is how the underneath receivers were being covered for most of the game.  Miami seemed to be getting away with murder holding wise from where I was sitting…the underneath receivers were getting absolutely mugged and it looked like the defense was flooding the middle.  Davis/diggs were beating the jam and the sidelines were the place to attack 

[kjack151]

15 hours ago, VaMilBill said:

Dorsey has a lot of faults. But Josh is not blameless in this either. Some questionable decisions. The interception down deep. The handoff to Cook that was supposed to be a run. He’s been making mistakes all season that we haven’t really seen for a few years. 

To this point, I think we are seeing the effects of Daboll’s absence.  Last playoff season the Bills offense was crisp and mistake free - Josh threw no interceptions nor made this many questionable throws.  Dorsey is still learning the nuances of being an OC and I believe he’ll get better; it’s just unfortunate that he doesn’t have that luxury during the playoffs.  Also, he’s not as creative as Daboll.  It seems that every 3rd down for 5 or more yards we go with the “empty” set (five wide receivers).  In its formation we’ve seen many times how when a play breaks down that Josh is able to run. But lately teams have adjusted to this which is why he’s had limited success scrambling.  Why don’t we employ Gilliam and Morris more?  I think they can create mismatches.  These are just my observations and in no way am I an expert. One more thing - I think for the first time in a long time the offense actually ran the ball on 4 consecutive plays.  They need to do more of this in my opinion.  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

11 minutes ago, Logic said:

If turning the ball over three times and allowing a vastly inferior opponent to hang around and almost getting eliminated from the playoffs in a historic upset doesn't constitute "struggling" but only "high variance due to scheme", then the scheme is a big problem, and we have vastly different definitions of what "struggling" means.

 

Should’ve dropped 50+ on them yesterday…people are talking like josh was just winging the ball deep into triple coverage.  Nearly all of those deep balls were open for tds 

 

im all for criticizing him when he deserves it but the deep shots in single coverage was what the defense was giving us this game.  Shakir dropped an easy one,  diggs was wide open for a td the first play of the game,  Davis back to back on that late series had open tds…the list goes on. Hit one more of those and the game is never that close even with the turnovers 

 

it was really a high variance defense I would say…not a high variance offense.  Miami was going for broke every play and they dodged a ton of bullets.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Logic]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

2nd in yards

 

2nd in points

 

it's a you problem

Your responses in this thread all show that you haven't read much of what I've had to say around these parts.

I've been a constant defender of Dorsey and of the offense as a whole. I don't want him fired, I don't want wholesale changes, I simply acknowledge the reality that they go through stretches during games where they make life harder on themselves with dumb mistakes. 

Conceding that they're a very good offense and a very good team and statistically productive does NOT mean that you have to pretend that they never struggle during a game.

Putting your hands over your eyes whenever the offense makes boneheaded plays that ultimately make games more difficult for the Bills than they need to be, and then just pointing to stats and saying "LA LA LA THEY NEVER MESS UP" is ignoring reality.

If you honestly feel like the offense played a perfect game yesterday, didn't make any mistakes, and that any and all criticism of portions of the offensive performance is unwarranted, then we're done here. We can just agree to disagree. It's fine.

[ColoradoBills]

14 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Please make things easier for Josh.  Run game, short passes, something that doesn’t require a highlight play almost every snap.  So many parallels to Elway before Denver got him a running game.  

 

The question you may want to ask is, does Josh want to play that way?

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

21 minutes ago, kjack151 said:

To this point, I think we are seeing the effects of Daboll’s absence.  Last playoff season the Bills offense was crisp and mistake free - Josh threw no interceptions nor made this many questionable throws.  Dorsey is still learning the nuances of being an OC and I believe he’ll get better; it’s just unfortunate that he doesn’t have that luxury during the playoffs.  Also, he’s not as creative as Daboll.  It seems that every 3rd down for 5 or more yards we go with the “empty” set (five wide receivers).  In its formation we’ve seen many times how when a play breaks down that Josh is able to run. But lately teams have adjusted to this which is why he’s had limited success scrambling.  Why don’t we employ Gilliam and Morris more?  I think they can create mismatches.  These are just my observations and in no way am I an expert. One more thing - I think for the first time in a long time the offense actually ran the ball on 4 consecutive plays.  They need to do more of this in my opinion.  

This honestly feels like the twilight zone around here haha…idk how Dorsey is getting any blame for this game…i don’t really get how Josh’s decision making is getting blame either..  he didn’t have a great game but it looked like accuracy issues to me. Early on he threw some not great balls to receivers that could’ve gotten a ton of rac with a better throw.  He also missed a bunch of routine deep ball tds and shakir wide open over the middle late in the game.  
 

If Miami is giving you a free td down the sideline on every play though because they want to jam up the middle of the field , you go for it.  

Maybe it’s because I was at the game and it looked different on tv idk,  but those deep shots he was taking were wiiide open tds/huge gains 90% of the time.  this wasn’t him trying to laser balls into double coverage or anything like that which we have seen in the past. 
 

we had two tds overturned by inches, shakir with a huge 50 yard drop, josh overthrowing a bunch of deep ball tds.  Miami dodged a ton of bullets.  They probably should’ve lost this game like 50+ to 38(they had some big plays dropped too) even with those turnovers 

 

that's kind of how it goes when you’re selling out to blitz on most plays and jamming all the receivers…you’re going to come up with some big defensive plays but you’re gonna get scored on a lot.  They’re lucky it wasn’t more 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Billsatlastin2018]

16 hours ago, Einstein said:

His offense scored 34 points despite having 3 turnovers.

Solid.

 

Most of us did not like what we saw yesterday, in particular Allen going for an immediate bomb up 17-0 when one more multi play march should have sealed it. 

Too many bombs, too few check offs.

NO more of those shite Josh/OC decisions going forward ! 

Not good enough against Cinci nor KC nor the 49ers!

Aaaand, home cooking reffing didn’t hurt!

 

GO 🦬!

3 to go!

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

22 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

The question you may want to ask is, does Josh want to play that way?

No qb in the league is going to pass up outside receivers in single coverage that get multiple steps on their defender lol I just don’t understand what people think they saw yesterday.  anyone would make those throws every single time.  

 

we just barely hit enough of them yesterday when we should’ve connected quite a few more times. Josh’s accuracy didn’t seem great.  If we hit two more of those which we very well should have, that’s an easy cover even with the turnovers and we would’ve outgained them about 600-300 (gave them a few deep ball completions because they dropped a few also)

Edited January 16, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

No qb in the league is going to pass up outside receivers in single coverage that get multiple steps on their defender lol I just don’t understand what people think they saw yesterday.  anyone would make those throws every single time.

 

we just barely hit enough of them yesterday when we should’ve connected quite a few more times. Josh’s accuracy didn’t seem great.  

 

Totally agree on QBs targeting the one-on-one but a lot of teams would have the receivers peel off a little more vs the number of deep

balls we've seen.  Then again, no QB has the rocket that Josh has and not many QBs can stand in the pocket (or roll and evade) the

all out blitz's like Josh can.

[Solomon Grundy]

34 minutes ago, kjack151 said:

To this point, I think we are seeing the effects of Daboll’s absence

He put in a masterclass in coaching yesterday!! Both with Danny Dimes and game management

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

No qb in the league is going to pass up outside receivers in single coverage that get multiple steps on their defender lol I just don’t understand what people think they saw yesterday.  anyone would make those throws every single time.  

 

we just barely hit enough of them yesterday when we should’ve connected quite a few more times. Josh’s accuracy didn’t seem great.  If we hit two more of those which we very well should have, that’s an easy cover even with the turnovers and we would’ve outgained them about 600-300 (gave them a few deep ball completions because they dropped a few also)

Josh’s accuracy was fine. He overshot Diggs on first drive ( not unusual for him on early series)and there was no issue on his part with the 1 on 1 to Brown. Of course you take that shot; it looked like Brown lost the ball in the sun or broke the wrong way. The other INT went off Beasleys hands right to a defender. The OL had issues and Josh needed to just cover up and take the sack. That scoop and score was a bit reckless on his part. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

15 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Josh’s accuracy was fine. He overshot Diggs on first drive ( not unusual for him on early series)and there was no issue on his part with the 1 on 1 to Brown. Of course you take that shot; it looked like Brown lost the ball in the sun or broke the wrong way. The other INT went off Beasleys hands right to a defender. The OL had issues and Josh needed to just cover up and take the sack. That scoop and score was a bit reckless on his part. 

He missed those two deep shots to Davis in a row where he was wide open both times/ diggs on the first play / missed a wide open shakir over the middle late in the game but yea I don’t blame him for the brown ball at all.  I was sure that was a td when it was in the air then it looked like brown ran the wrong route.  

there were a few plays early on where receivers had to dive to catch balls when they could’ve been hit in stride.  
 

I do agree though, outside of the fumble I really didn’t have any problem with the decision making or the playcalling.  Miami was really aggressive on defense which is going to yield some turnovers but they were lucky to not give up another 20+ points.  They weren’t really giving up anything short over the middle and they were stuffing the run in the second half 
 

I think people are trying to fit this game into the narrative they previously had about the bills offense when it really doesn’t fit imo.  Those balls down the sideline is what the dolphins defense was giving us…they weren’t forced throws at all.  

people are talkin about those deep throws like they were 50/50 balls but the receivers were wide open on the vast majority of them.  There was one insane throw to diggs across the whole field that somehow hit him right in the hands but other than that it was all receivers who beat their man 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Niagara Bill]

39 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

He missed those two deep shots to Davis in a row where he was wide open both times/ diggs on the first play / missed a wide open shakir over the middle late in the game but yea I don’t blame him for the brown ball at all.  I was sure that was a td when it was in the air then it looked like brown ran the wrong route.  

there were a few plays early on where receivers had to dive to catch balls when they could’ve been hit in stride.  
 

I do agree though, outside of the fumble I really didn’t have any problem with the decision making or the playcalling.  Miami was really aggressive on defense which is going to yield some turnovers but they were lucky to not give up another 20+ points.  They weren’t really giving up anything short over the middle and they were stuffing the run in the second half 
 

I think people are trying to fit this game into the narrative they previously had about the bills offense when it really doesn’t fit imo.  Those balls down the sideline is what the dolphins defense was giving us…they weren’t forced throws at all.  

people are talkin about those deep throws like they were 50/50 balls but the receivers were wide open on the vast majority of them.  There was one insane throw to diggs across the whole field that somehow hit him right in the hands but other than that it was all receivers who beat their man 

 

It appears to me that at times there is a lack of imagination. Too much bread and butter.

A young inexperienced coach can get too cautious under pressure and forget what got them there. Dorseys heart must be racing and only experience can keep your head clear with all that adrenaline. He has all the weight, last year he shared it.

Bringing Cole back helped in his processing but he misses keeping a wide field for much of the game. 

I don't mean to poop on him, just realize he is not yet Dabol or Reid, but he will get there.

[somnus00]

17 hours ago, Simon said:

 

That was bothering me too.

I do think the depth the Phish secondary was setting up in ahd something to do with that.

They were still available with some minor tweaking though.

 

This is a great post.

I hated the fact that the turnover came on first down but at that point in the game they were having really good success finding openings in the secondary on 1st downs and I get what he was trying to do on that particular down. I wonder what Josh passed up to chuck that prayer instead; I'd bet that one of his first two options was available and he couldn't help himself

If i remember correctly, both Singletary and Morris were open in space. Same with the strip sack for 6. Two guys open on short routes.

 

I love Josh and his killer instinct. But getting into a rhythm with short/ intermediate stuff increases the chances of hitting the deep ball.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

2nd in yards

 

2nd in points

 

it's a you problem

I enjoy your posts and respect your acumen.  You have to be the most optimistic Bills fan I’ve encountered. I can’t recall one negative post that you’ve ever made.  
 

that said-  there are things to worry about.  A poor Miami D sacked us 7 times, Josh fumbled 3 times and threw 2 picks. The OL is terrible in pass protection.  Our OC only dialed up zero targets for Cook and motor. 
 

It’s not the end of the world and next week is a new game. A new game plan and hopefully better play from the OL can bring better results. Our offense is great- but it was way too 17 dependent yesterday behind an OL that couldn’t protect him. 

[Green Lightning]

17 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Cook literally scored a long TD within the last few weeks on a draw. Do people even watch games anymore or do they just randomly comment with having no knowledge?

Maybe do it more?

[Drew21PA]

I just don’t understand why after James cook had 20 plus yards on two Carrie’s - you go back to the air that quickly

 

(Beasley int)

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

24 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

It appears to me that at times there is a lack of imagination. Too much bread and butter.

A young inexperienced coach can get too cautious under pressure and forget what got them there. Dorseys heart must be racing and only experience can keep your head clear with all that adrenaline. He has all the weight, last year he shared it.

Bringing Cole back helped in his processing but he misses keeping a wide field for much of the game. 

I don't mean to poop on him, just realize he is not yet Dabol or Reid, but he will get there.

I just don’t see how that applies to yesterday but you could certainly say that about other games I’m sure.  If your receiver can run straight by the defender outside the numbers you throw it to him lol. It’s as simple as that.  Miami was bringing the house and covering man to man.  No imagination necessary just gotta beat your guy and the sideline is what they were leaving open.  We had to hit on a couple more of those easy pitch and catches to make that game more comfortable and we just failed to do so.  Most games teams take away the deep stuff to make us nickel and dime them down the field but Miami did the complete opposite.  We just executed the gameplan to beat what Miami was doing pretty poorly.  
 

Miami had to jam in single coverage/blitz a lot as a huge underdog to try to generate sacks and turnovers and they were pretty lucky to not lose by more imo.  Should’ve been an easy cover even with the three turnovers we just missed out on a ton of additional points.  

Edited January 16, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[K-9]

Forget questions for Dorsey. What he needs are answers.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

8 minutes ago, Drew21PA said:

I just don’t understand why after James cook had 20 plus yards on two Carrie’s - you go back to the air that quickly

 

(Beasley int)

We continued to run rather ineffectively in the second half…mostly 1 or 2 yard gains.  I can understand why people don’t like it because a lot of times in the past josh got deep ball happy when it wasn’t really warranted but that was the right gameplan yesterday.  

[Big Turk]

11 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Maybe do it more?

 

You know things can be gameplan specific to attack weaknesses of teams right?

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

So apparently the play was designed to go to Knox, with some good underneath options if Knox wasn't available.  That's all per the Twitterverse so who knows but it sounds right.  Brown apparently was running a clearout route, which would explain why he did not expect the ball.  If that's all true, I'm not sure what Dorsey is supposed to do.  He can't keep all the routes short because that will crowd the backfield.  Allen simply refuses to play within the structure of the offense despite it hurting the team multiple times this season.  He gives the obligatory "I made some bad decisions and I'll learn from it" quip at the end of the game but the words ring hollow at this point - he's just not yet a grownup.  I love the guy, he's my favorite athlete to root for, ever, but he is not a grownup.  As I said elsewhere, it may take him having to stew an entire offseason about throwing away a playoff game for him to change his ways.  Last year's AFCCG was the opposite - the hero ball worked, the post-season narrative was all about how if Josh got the ball back, he would've scored again - the NFL even changed the rules to make sure Josh will get the ball back next time.  If anything it added kerosene to the fire.  At this point I just don't know what will get him to change.  Whatever it is, Dorsey isn't up to it - he treats Dorsey like a substitute teacher.

I had a great view of this play from my seat.  Brown was open he just lost the ball in the sun and stopped his route.  Xavien Howard was completely turned around and was able to make the play because brown was lost.  

 

it’s all hindsight really…I’m sure he has completed tds to clearout routes before and nobody cares because it worked.  Didn’t strike me as a bad decision at all 

 

this ‘hero ball’ complaint is getting trite at this point.  Apparently any throw that’s not a checkdown is hero ball now.  When the defense is jamming everybody and not giving safety help to the outside receivers you’re going to be throwing deep a lot I don’t care who your qb is.  
 

there weren’t really any hero ball plays this game…maybe that cross field bomb to diggs that ended up being an absolute perfect throw somehow he just couldn’t come down with it.  The fumble was definitely on josh though.  

Edited January 16, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

13 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

You know things can be gameplan specific to attack weaknesses of teams right?

Idk how many times I can say that about this specific game lol Miami was giving us the deep throws and jamming the underneath stuff hard to try to get their pass rush home.  Thank goodness fans don’t call the game.  
 

not trying to tell people Dorsey always calls a great game and josh has certainly gone deep in the past when it wasn’t always warranted,   in this particular game it was warranted though 😁

Edited January 16, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Buffalo03]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

He isn't really. Allen has check downs on every play that he can go to.

No he doesn't. On some plays he does. But I can't tell you how many times yesterday watching the game with a friend whenever they showed a replay of almost any pass play, all WRs were running 20 yards or more up the field. It's causing plays longer to develop and making Allen throw more picks. Allen doesn't go from being a safe check down guy back to back years to just not giving a f*ck anymore on purpose. He's throwing more deep passes all game long because that is where the routes are on the field most plays and it's also causing 2 WRs to be in the same area of the field too often. Even the pick that went off Beasley's hands, Beasley was like 15 yards up the field. He usually only runs small 5 yard routes. Dorsey is the problem 

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And gave them 2 short fields with special teams blunders.

Why didn't Bass just have someone hold the damn ball. He kept trying to compress it and it wouldn't stay on the tee.  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

18 hours ago, JMM said:

Are you familiar with the following concepts: RB screen, TE screen, bubble screen, draw, delayed draw, quick slant, quick out, go and stop, etc.  I'm no OC, but it seems to me that there are experts in the NFL that believe these are effective concepts against cover zero. Thanks for your attention.  Now...back to calling your seven step drop duo go routes.....

Kurt Warner debunked this myth that there are no designed checkdowns in the offense.

 

Thanks.

 

Been debunked. 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 minute ago, Buffalo03 said:

No he doesn't. On some plays he does. But I can't tell you how many times yesterday watching the game with a friend whenever they showed a replay of almost any pass play, all WRs were running 20 yards or more up the field. It's causing plays longer to develop and making Allen throw more picks. Allen doesn't go from being a safe check down guy back to back years to just not giving a f*ck anymore on purpose. He's throwing more deep passes all game long because that is where the routes are on the field most plays and it's also causing 2 WRs to be in the same area of the field too often. Even the pick that went off Beasley's hands, Beasley was like 15 yards up the field. He usually only runs small 5 yard routes. Dorsey is the problem 

Yeah these route trees by Dorsey that puts 2 wrs too close to each other is a problem.

[Buffalo03]

Just now, LABILLBACKER said:

Yeah these route trees by Dorsey that puts 2 wrs too close to each other is a problem.

It happens every game and drives me insane

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

No he doesn't. On some plays he does. But I can't tell you how many times yesterday watching the game with a friend whenever they showed a replay of almost any pass play, all WRs were running 20 yards or more up the field. It's causing plays longer to develop and making Allen throw more picks. Allen doesn't go from being a safe check down guy back to back years to just not giving a f*ck anymore on purpose. He's throwing more deep passes all game long because that is where the routes are on the field most plays and it's also causing 2 WRs to be in the same area of the field too often. Even the pick that went off Beasley's hands, Beasley was like 15 yards up the field. He usually only runs small 5 yard routes. Dorsey is the problem 

Miami was all over the short routes in this one…that was their whole gameplan.  Give us the deep long developing stuff so they can send the house and it becomes a race between our outside receivers beating the jam and their pass rush.  Spreading the field with deep routes was the right call whether fans like it or not. 

[Buffalo03]

Just now, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Miami was all over the short routes in this one…that was their whole gameplan.  Give us the deep long developing stuff so they can send the house and it becomes a race between our outside receivers beating the jam and their pass rush.  Spreading the field with deep routes was the right call whether fans like it or not. 

They have been doing it every week. Majority of plays have had every pass catcher on the field running 20 yards up the field. It's not Miami sitting on those routes. Those routes aren't really happening much anymore

[GoBills808]

35 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I enjoy your posts and respect your acumen.  You have to be the most optimistic Bills fan I’ve encountered. I can’t recall one negative post that you’ve ever made.  
 

that said-  there are things to worry about.  A poor Miami D sacked us 7 times, Josh fumbled 3 times and threw 2 picks. The OL is terrible in pass protection.  Our OC only dialed up zero targets for Cook and motor. 
 

It’s not the end of the world and next week is a new game. A new game plan and hopefully better play from the OL can bring better results. Our offense is great- but it was way too 17 dependent yesterday behind an OL that couldn’t protect him. 

You won't find me saying it was a great game from Allen 

 

All I'm saying if the expectation is 70% for 400 and 4/0 (which is his line minus the picks and drops) we should probably examine why that is and if it's very realistic

[Big Turk]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

No he doesn't. On some plays he does. But I can't tell you how many times yesterday watching the game with a friend whenever they showed a replay of almost any pass play, all WRs were running 20 yards or more up the field. It's causing plays longer to develop and making Allen throw more picks. Allen doesn't go from being a safe check down guy back to back years to just not giving a f*ck anymore on purpose. He's throwing more deep passes all game long because that is where the routes are on the field most plays and it's also causing 2 WRs to be in the same area of the field too often. Even the pick that went off Beasley's hands, Beasley was like 15 yards up the field. He usually only runs small 5 yard routes. Dorsey is the problem 

 

That was the Daboll move that used to kill the Fins because they play so much man coverage. Allen's legs was the checkdown. He would just take off running up the middle for huge yardage. It was there yesterday too but the Fins were ready for it. They let him think it was there then closed it down as soon as he took off running for it.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Big Turk

[Buffalo03]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

That was the Daboll move that used to kill the Fins because they play so much man coverage. Allen's legs was the checkdown. He would just take off running up the middle for huge yardage. It was there yesterday too but the Fins were ready for it.

Then explain why Allen hasn't thrown the check downs much all season? This isn't about yesterday or routes being taken away, it's about an offensive coordinator drawing up plays where our WRs are constantly running too far up the field

Edited January 16, 2023 by Buffalo03

[Big Turk]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

Then explain why Allen hasn't thrown the check downs much all season? This isn't about yesterday or routes being taken away, it's about an offensive coordinator drawing up plays where are WRs are constantly running too far up the field

 

My God man, do you even watch the games? He HAS thrown them a LOT this year. The first two games of the year we were complaining as to why all of the throws were checkdowns.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, Buffalo03 said:

They have been doing it every week. Majority of plays have had every pass catcher on the field running 20 yards up the field. It's not Miami sitting on those routes. Those routes aren't really happening much anymore

That early catch to diggs was a quick slant where he got jammed and was completely off balance and came down with it still.  They were jamming the heck out of short routes all game long. That deep 3rd and 1 to shakir Knox ran a 2 yard under route and he legit got tossed 5 yards back into the line of scrimmage lol.  
 

Not trying to say you’re wrong about previous games necessarily…I was not at any of the other games to compare.

but in this one the go routes were there all game long we just did not connect on enough of them to win comfortably.  Josh easily could’ve gone for 500+ passing yards with 5-6 tds with that gameplan even with the 7 sacks/3 turnovers.  just a little bit off on so many plays.