Mt. Rushmore of busts. Is Wilson on it?

[mannc]

Wilson is not the worst bust, by a longshot.  One thing to consider is that there weren't really any franchise QBs left on the board when the Jets picked him.  Justin Fields looks promising, but he's got a long way to go.  Lance looks like a bust and Mac Jones looks like a career backup.  This isn't like the Browns taking Mayfield instead of Allen, or the Bears taking Trubisky (after trading up) instead of Watson or Mahomes.  Also, the Jets didn't trade up for the opportunity to take Wilson.  The Niners traded two number ones to move up to select Lance.  The Jets traded three second round picks to move up to pick Darnold.  The Rams gave up a ton of picks to move up for Goff, etc...And of course, Wilson's career is not over yet.  He'll get another chance, and if he gets his head screwed on straight, he might actually see some success.  

[Sharky7337]

40 minutes ago, NewEra said:

A qb taken @ 2 vs a qb taken @ 10-  idk…. Being terrible is being terrible-  the greater investment means bigger bust imo

This. When a QB is taken after 10 over all its kinda essentially a "were not sure" move. When QBs go in top ten they are supposed to be sure prospects 

[RocCityRoller]

11 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Here is my vote

 

You beat me to a 'bust' joke.

I prefer where you took it!

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by RocCityRoller

[Virgil]

Hype matters for a bust, not just draft selection.   Wilson may have been drafted high, but it wasn’t a debate for him to go first overall. 

 

By that logic, you’d have to include Akili Smith and Tim Couch. 
 

I agree with Russell and Leaf, as they were huge coming out of college and expected to be great.  Plus, they got hugely different contracts.  

[stevestojan]

Had to check if you were talking about Zach or Russ. 
 

Zach is not done in the NFL, but I don’t see anyway he starts again for the Jests. 

[US Egg]

48 minutes ago, BRH said:

I guess people aren't old enough to remember Kelly Stouffer.

The stove top stuffing heir?

[starrymessenger]

50 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

The Jets Organization deserves to go up more than Wilson. Wilson was simply way over-drafted. Sooo many people knew right away that he'd never cut it. There were practically no real expectations.

 

Most "big busts" have some sort of expectation that goes along with it, making their busts even bigger.

 

The organization that has recently "busted" on Geno Smith, Sam Darnold, and now Zach Wilson deserves far more of the blame than any of these players.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, ***** THE JETS!

Don't forget Hackenburg. Second round pick. Mr. Irrelevant in SF way better QB prospect than Zach. Suggests Zach should probably have gone undrafted lol. Zach is what many feared Josh Allen was - a big arm and absolutely nothing else. Whatever gave Douglas the impression that a child could play the position in the NFL? Unimaginable drop off between #1 and #2 in Zach's draft year.

After building a roster with some credible talent on both sides of the ball Jets will now have to mortgage their future as they look to trade for a veteran QB.

[HappyDays]

56 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Sooo many people knew right away that he'd never cut it.

 

A lot of people knew right away that Pat Mahomes and Josh Allen would never cut it. Like me! I'll admit my bad takes on both of them. I don't blame the Jets for taking a QB with elite arm talent but rough around the edges. Lately that has been the recipe for success in the draft.

 

If anything I think Wilson's attitude has sunk him more than his talent. He's lost the locker room and he doesn't take accountability for his failures. Ryan Fitzpatrick on the post game show last night had this to say:

 

"Even when Josh Allen wasn't playing well in his rookie season, the guys in that locker room would die for him."

 

So it sounds like the Jets made the same mistake the Cardinals did when they drafted Josh Rosen - they scouted the player but not the person. To be a franchise QB you need both.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

A qb taken @ 2 vs a qb taken @ 10-  idk…. Being terrible is being terrible-  the greater investment means bigger bust imo

Josh Rosen had 0 help so I’d lean Zach Wilson as bigger bust.  The 2022 jets is one of the best situations a top 10 pick qb has gotten a chance to play on.  

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, QCity said:

Still too early. He needs a change of scenery though, that much is certain.

Count me as one of his few believers. He has the tools. Just needs a new place with probably a better coaching staff. Reminds me of Tua getting the support he needs. 

[klos63]

1 hour ago, SMAKCruiser said:

What about Walt Patulski?

Came across this article from a few years back. Good read.

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/after-40-years-in-the-nfl-darkness-walt-patulski-explains-how-it-all-went-wrong/article_a40310fb-994d-5c7d-b719-d15dc1529c2c.html

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 hour ago, QCity said:

Still too early. He needs a change of scenery though, that much is certain.

Agreed.

 

I*f you want a real world example, Geno Smith.

 

Wilson has the physical attributes, if he can linger on in the NFL he might EVENTUALLY "get it".   Wonder how committed he is, if he does the film study, pays attention during meetings, etc.  Saleh seems uniquely pissed at him, wouldn't shock me at all if it eventually comes out Wilson was lazy.   I think right now he is just not smart enough/not processing the plays adequately and timely.  Given him a few years and see what you have.

Edited December 23, 2022 by RoyBatty is alive

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

A lot of people knew right away that Pat Mahomes and Josh Allen would never cut it. Like me! I'll admit my bad takes on both of them. I don't blame the Jets for taking a QB with elite arm talent but rough around the edges. Lately that has been the recipe for success in the draft.

 

If anything I think Wilson's attitude has sunk him more than his talent. He's lost the locker room and he doesn't take accountability for his failures. Ryan Fitzpatrick on the post game show last night had this to say:

 

"Even when Josh Allen wasn't playing well in his rookie season, the guys in that locker room would die for him."

 

So it sounds like the Jets made the same mistake the Cardinals did when they drafted Josh Rosen - they scouted the player but not the person. To be a franchise QB you need both.

I think a lot of it is a work ethic and drive to better themselves issue with a lot of these qb busts.  They’ve all got nfl talent level physical skills so it’s really the willingness to put in the extra work in film study and whatnot that ends up making the difference.  Some guys seem way more willing to do that than others.

 

for some it seems they’ve played football their whole life and finally got payed so they take their foot off the gas a little.  That all ties into why josh Allen was so liked in the bills locker room  
 

 

[starrymessenger]

3 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Count me as one of his few believers. He has the tools. Just needs a new place with probably a better coaching staff. Reminds me of Tua getting the support he needs. 

Tua played at Alabama in the SEC and he was good there. Zach had one good year against poor competition behind a very good offensive line. 
Zach is short. Some QBs can deal with that and still excel. With him it looks like it adds to his difficulty in seeing the field over nfl defensive linemen.. His mechanics are a mess and his accuracy is dreadful. He has no intangibles appeal and is hated by his teammates.

I would not say he has all the skills. The mental component in him is entirely lacking. All he has is a live arm, which is good but probably the last thing you should bet the house on when evaluating a college QB. 
Probably some organization will think they can turn him around but I'd be skeptical. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

14 minutes ago, klos63 said:

Came across this article from a few years back. Good read.

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/after-40-years-in-the-nfl-darkness-walt-patulski-explains-how-it-all-went-wrong/article_a40310fb-994d-5c7d-b719-d15dc1529c2c.html

That is a really pathetic and sad story.  I am thrilled Walter turned into a success after football.   Saban could be tough, no doubt about it, "tough" doesn't work on every player.  Of course that ass Rex Ryan has to jump on Patulski out of thin air.  He was supposed to be a HC, not an "entertainer" during that Edelman press conference.

[FilthyBeast]

He's certainly trending towards massive bust status, but I think he's going to get at least one more chance. If not with the Jets, someone else.

 

People will laugh but I think what has done the most harm to his career (in addition to the pressure of playing in a city and sports market like NYC) was the whole MILF thing right before the season about him sleeping with one of his mother's BFF's. Distractions like that seem funny on the surface but get the sense it caused way more harm than good especially since he got hurt towards the end of camp and missed some crucial practice time.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

38 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Tua played at Alabama in the SEC and he was good there. Zach had one good year against poor competition behind a very good offensive line. 
Zach is short. Some QBs can deal with that and still excel. With him it looks like it adds to his difficulty in seeing the field over nfl defensive linemen.. His mechanics are a mess and his accuracy is dreadful. He has no intangibles appeal and is hated by his teammates.

I would not say he has all the skills. The mental component in him is entirely lacking. All he has is a live arm, which is good but probably the last thing you should bet the house on when evaluating a college QB. 
Probably some organization will think they can turn him around but I'd be skeptical. 

Yeah, you definitely may be right, and seem to have evaluated him a lot more than me. I just see a guy that seems like he has a rocket arm, nice deep ball, and mobility, and think maybe a good QB guru can get him back on track.  But maybe not? 

[Norcalbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Fleezoid said:

I think the only way Zack Wilson is going to get back on track, it'll have to be with different team as a backup for a while. His head can't be right, right now. 

 

A year or two as a backup while he works on his game. And time to let this train wreck fade away. My 2 cents.

Agreed, he needed to be a back up and learn an offense and practice against world class athletes for awhile to realize his backyard football style doesn't work in the nfl. He has the arm talent and speed to be an nfl starter but he needs to get away from backyard ball and follow a system.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Russell Wilson was ok on his first go round 😂

[BuffaloBill]

1 hour ago, klos63 said:

Came across this article from a few years back. Good read.

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/after-40-years-in-the-nfl-darkness-walt-patulski-explains-how-it-all-went-wrong/article_a40310fb-994d-5c7d-b719-d15dc1529c2c.html

 

 

So much of what makes a great player vs a bust is what happens in their head.  Additionally, a coach that does not mangel what is in their head. 

[RobbRiddick]

I am shocked by how bad he is. He's just awful. Most guys at least flash some stuff or have a great game here and there. Wilson has nothing going for him. He has no charisma on the field or off. You can see why his teammate don't seem to like him and instantly seem more energized when he's benched

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I don't know Tim Couch, Joey Harrington and Akili Smith come immediately to mind as bigger busts than Wilson.  

And that is just QB's - I'm looking at you Tony Mandarich

[billsfan89]

Still too early to tell on Wilson but the early returns not great.

[Ya Digg?]

Wilson is definitely not on the list…yet. Just like the hall of fame, a player needs time to be considered an all time bust. Jamarcus Russell deserves to be up there because people remember how extraordinarily bad he was. Tim Couch is just a forgotten player, so for me he wouldn’t be even in the conversation. Certainly wasn’t a great player, but you don’t really remember anything about him.

Can’t label a guy in his second year an all time bust (although that happens here all the time)

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, Cson76 said:

This NFL writer is saying he's up there.  Ryan Leaf, jamarcus Russel are on it. Possibly Johnny manziel. Wilson as a number 2 overall might be there with them.  

 

https://www.nj.com/sports/2022/12/nfl-analyst-says-jets-zach-wilson-could-be-one-of-biggest-busts-in-nfl-history.html

Jonny manziel was like 27th overall 

 

far from the biggest whiffs ever

[BlazinBill]

I think it might be early to state that- I mean it's bad - he looks awful - maybe being in NYC was just to much pressure and he crumbled and he will turn it around in a different team/system.

Side note-Isnt it such a relief that you don't have to break the bank and set your organization back 5 years everytime you draft high and the player just fizzles- I hated that part of the game back in the day

[BlazinBill]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I don't know Tim Couch, Joey Harrington and Akili Smith come immediately to mind as bigger busts than Wilson.  

And that is just QB's - I'm looking at you Tony Mandarich

Haha-Not sure why, but reading this made me instantly remember Aaron Maybin- 

[longtimebillsfan]

 

Everyone should be in Ralph Wilson's debt.

 

1)  He brought the Bills to Western New York

2)  In his will he did everything he could to make sure the Bills stayed in Western New York.

3) He saved Al Davis's financial butt

4) He won 2 AFL championships and got the Bills to the AFL championship game vs KC to go to the first Super bowl (called the AFL-NFL world Championship)

5) He got the Bills to 4 straight super Bowls

 

Let the poor man rest in peace.

Edited December 23, 2022 by longtimebillsfan

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

That is a really pathetic and sad story.  I am thrilled Walter turned into a success after football.   Saban could be tough, no doubt about it, "tough" doesn't work on every player.  Of course that ass Rex Ryan has to jump on Patulski out of thin air.  He was supposed to be a HC, not an "entertainer" during that Edelman press conference.

True about Rex, but had he been a winner here, those antics would have been stuff of legend and fans would have absolutely eaten it up. Bottom line:  it’s all about the W’s and L’s

1 hour ago, RobbRiddick said:

I am shocked by how bad he is. He's just awful. Most guys at least flash some stuff or have a great game here and there. Wilson has nothing going for him. He has no charisma on the field or off. You can see why his teammate don't seem to like him and instantly seem more energized when he's benched

Sad that he had one of his better games against the Bills 

[Big Turk]

No. This writer must be really young. He should go do more research so he isn't just using the timeframe of reference from what he remembers.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Big Turk

[Punching Bag]

3 hours ago, Buftex said:

It is pretty clear from the responses here, we don't have a clear definition of what a "bust" is.  

 

@\GoBillsInDallas/ is expert at busts of all sizes, domestic and international.   Start with his definition.

[DrBob806]

3 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Agree I was just listing the top 3 picks, my point was 1 and 3 were busts.  I'll go back and edit to clarify that!

 

 

 

Agree I was just listing the top 3 picks, my point was 1 and 3 were busts.  I'll go back and edit to clarify that!

Tim Couch wasn't a bust guys. He had the Browns in the playoffs in year 3, broke his leg. 

[Bubba Gump]

He should be the headstone.

[Seventeen]

3 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

Tua played at Alabama in the SEC and he was good there. Zach had one good year against poor competition behind a very good offensive line. 
Zach is short. Some QBs can deal with that and still excel. With him it looks like it adds to his difficulty in seeing the field over nfl defensive linemen.. His mechanics are a mess and his accuracy is dreadful. He has no intangibles appeal and is hated by his teammates.

I would not say he has all the skills. The mental component in him is entirely lacking. All he has is a live arm, which is good but probably the last thing you should bet the house on when evaluating a college QB. 
Probably some organization will think they can turn him around but I'd be skeptical. 

 

Zach is 6'2" - same as Aaron Rodgers. Not short - Kyler Murray is short.

[starrymessenger]

10 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Zach is 6'2" - same as Aaron Rodgers. Not short - Kyler Murray is short.

You're right. My bad. He's not short (nor is he small at circa 214). He only looks (and plays) short and small. 

[PonyBoy]

4 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

You lay off of Ralph Wilson. 😠

*
(Read the premise of the OP?!  Hell, no, I just react to thread titles.)

My first thought too 😀

[First Round Bust]

being an expert on busts, mostly womens, on occasion I do stray into the realm of jock-sniffing, jock-worship and just plain..joucularity:

 

https://sportsnaut.com/20-biggest-nfl-draft-busts-of-all-time/

 

take your pick, no Bills on the list...so:

 

https://clutchpoints.com/5-biggest-nfl-draft-busts-in-buffalo-bills-history

 

I also add:

 

70s...Walt Patulski, The Nebraska LB Twins 80s...Booker Moore, Perry Tuttle...2015...Marcel Dareus....

 

hey it happens to every team....happy holidays everybody !

 

 

[May Day 10]

He is not on the Mt Rushmore.  I don't believe he was all that "can't miss" and was drafted more on potential and skill set.

 

It does probably stings for jets fans that they don't have fields

 

I'd say akili Smith, mandarich,  Joey Harrington, Ryan leaf, David Carr, boz, Andre ware, tim couch, and maybe same Bradford were all worse busts and would be more memorable candidates for the Mt Rushmore of busts.

Edited December 23, 2022 by May Day 10

[pennstate10]

5 hours ago, dpberr said:

IMO, No. 

 

Guys like Mandarich, Emtman, Bosworth all had far more college accolades and didn't quite get there in the NFL. Then you've  virtually every all world RB out of Penn State from Blair Thomas to Kijana Carter.

 

Wilson is like Akili Smith, Andre Ware, Tim Couch. One great college year but was way over drafted by a desperate team. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I’m guessing you haven’t seen NFC pro bowl roster. 
 

[PonyBoy]

1 hour ago, longtimebillsfan said:

 

Everyone should be in Ralph Wilson's debt.

 

1)  He brought the Bills to Western New York

2)  In his will he did everything he could to make sure the Bills stayed in Western New York.

3) He saved Al Davis's financial butt

4) He won 2 AFL championships and got the Bills to the AFL championship game vs KC to go to the first Super bowl (called the AFL-NFL world Championship)

5) He got the Bills to 4 straight super Bowls

 

Let the poor man rest in peace.

 

But...He was a bust at QB 😀