My hypothesis for 17's Int woes

[KDIGGZ]

The last pick his forced something that wasn't there trying to make a big play. It was 2nd down, just get 6-7 yards. Why try and throw it 25 yards into the end zone? Take what the defense gives you 

[BillsBlue]

33 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

What are you talking about? This is how Josh has always played. The difference is that in the past his "should be" INTs turn into Jaw dropping TDs. He's been a gun slinger his whole life and he's going through a stint where it isn't working our for him and you're asking him to be Chad Pennington.

The reason that he's throwing more INTs because we're throwing the entire outcome of the game on his shoulders every single week. You can't do that. Our defense makes a stop on 4th and 18 and that pick doesn't exist and we're talking about how JA is the best player in the NFL again.

I don't want Chad noodle armed Pennington for Christ's sake lol 😆  just taling the easy stuff when it benefits the team getting a win and keeping possession of the ball late in the game etc. You know situational football per se

43 minutes ago, Mango said:

I think he’s played dominant and we’ve been dominant, so he just grips too tight to “be dominant”. Then when that doesn’t go well, he presses harder to get that game, drive, play, etc. back. We’re just in a vicious circle we have to get out of.

 

Glad this is happening now rather than December or January. 

He kind of has been up and down a little bit for stretches here and there he just seems to be in an uglier rut than we've seen since year 2 imo and yeah hopefully they can get him back to basics and get him to play winning  ball rather than look at me ball

[Big Turk]

8 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

The last pick his forced something that wasn't there trying to make a big play. It was 2nd down, just get 6-7 yards. Why try and throw it 25 yards into the end zone? Take what the defense gives you 

 

He could have ran for an easy first down if not a TD...there was literally one LB in the middle of the field like 15 yards away.

[BillsBlue]

8 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

The last pick his forced something that wasn't there trying to make a big play. It was 2nd down, just get 6-7 yards. Why try and throw it 25 yards into the end zone? Take what the defense gives you 

My feelings exactly, it's like his train of thought isn't right the last 2 games, he's not stupid somethings not adding up, maybe the play calls are trash ??

30 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

it's exactly how he played his first two years in the league. 

True but not the last 2

[Matt_In_NH]

Lol people grasping at straws

[BillsBlue]

32 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Concussion leaves you cloudy and indecisive, slow to react.... at a position that makes more on the fly decisions than any other position/sport.

 

Hes actually too good for these picks, or a mental lapse on a snap in his own EZ. 

 

All the symptoms are there. Embarassing as a fan base to hear how quick ppl are turning on a dude thats given us everything. Putting his brain on the line for us with a concussion he has to keep hush about, and ppl are saying "season is over" blah blah blah. 

 

Dont care if i get 100 downvotes. Be better. TWO GAMES ITS BEEN. TWO. Relax, everything will be fine. We found a nice rhythm till the 4th. Well take what we can from it, grow, and move on. Shame on some of you

It's what I see as well bro somethings grossly wrong hopefully he heals up and gets back on track

1 minute ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Lol people grasping at straws

Your mom's grasping at straws

[thenorthremembers]

My wife is 100% sure it has something to do with his girlfriend.     She did some investigating and told me Britt hasnt posted anything on instagram since the Halloween party, despite being in her words "very active on social media."

 

Maybe its just a coincidence but Josh hasnt played well since that bye week party.    Otherwise I have no clue why he suddenly looks like a different player. 

[BillsBlue]

4 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

My wife is 100% sure it has something to do with his girlfriend.     She did some investigating and told me Britt hasnt posted anything on instagram since the Halloween party, despite being in her words "very active on social media."

 

Maybe its just a coincidence but Josh hasnt played well since that bye week party.    Otherwise I have no clue why he suddenly looks like a different player. 

This is an interesting take, he does seem distracted maybe I guess, woman can do crazy things to a man's mind lol

[Matt_In_NH]

7 minutes ago, BillsBlue said:

 

Your mom's grasping at straws

Another of you nonsensical, thoughtless,  useless,  ridiculous posts.  Keep ‘em coming

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, BillsBlue said:

Something just isn't right with our #17 our boy Blue. To me it all started after the play during the  Green Bay game where Josh tries to run the ball in the end zone down the sideline and is met with a very large DT face mask to face mask. I think Josh has been playing with a concussion since that hit and there was a hit in the jets game where Josh was on his hands and knees shaking his head side to side as well where he seemed to have had his bell rung. Flame away but this isn't how JA17 plays, somethings seriously not right and it reminds me of Trent Edward's after the Wilson hit and I'm scared...........

 

Talked about last week. This thread may interest you:

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

1 minute ago, BillsBlue said:

This is an interesting take, he does seem distracted maybe I guess, woman can do crazy things to a man's mind lol

You ain't kidding brother.    The wife insists thats whats going on.   I know better not to argue.

[Livinginthepast]

1 hour ago, BillsBlue said:

Something just isn't right with our #17 our boy Blue. To me it all started after the play during the  Green Bay game where Josh tries to run the ball in the end zone down the sideline and is met with a very large DT face mask to face mask. I think Josh has been playing with a concussion since that hit and there was a hit in the jets game where Josh was on his hands and knees shaking his head side to side as well where he seemed to have had his bell rung. Flame away but this isn't how JA17 plays, somethings seriously not right and it reminds me of Trent Edward's after the Wilson hit and I'm scared...........

I literally thought the exact same thing and so have others on here. Josh hasnt seemed right since that GB 2nd half. Not a full concussion but a mild one is what I suspected. His decision making since as been hit and miss. But If this is true, the coaches have to simplify things for him. Why hasnt this happened? Today instead of throwing the ball for the OT INT he should have had 2 options if the play wasnt there 1. throw it away or 2. run it only if the play is there. What is scary is maybe he isnt judging when the play isnt there properly!

[Dr.Sack]

When Allen learns to consistently take the check down and turns into Tom Brady they will win 

[BillsBlue]

Just now, Livinginthepast said:

I literally thought the exact same thing and so have others on here. Josh hasnt seemed right since that GB 2nd half. Not a full concussion but a mild one is what I suspected. His decision making since as been hit and miss. But If this is true, the coaches have to simplify things for him. Why hasnt this happened? Today instead of throwing the ball for the OT INT he should have had 2 options if the play wasnt there 1. throw it away or 2. run it only if the play is there. What is scary is maybe he isnt judging when the play isnt there properly!

Exactly it's like his thought process is flawed now when he really really understood situational football and winning football before the second half of the gb game, that big helmet to helmet hit he welcomed and then the one in nj is where I saw a marked difference in his thought process/ability to read defenses....orrrrrrr dorseys play calling has been predictable and terrible....or both 

[HappyDays]

26 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

The last pick his forced something that wasn't there trying to make a big play. It was 2nd down, just get 6-7 yards. Why try and throw it 25 yards into the end zone? Take what the defense gives you 

 

Because we can't score TDs from inside the 20. We get all the way down there making it look easy, and then get stymied where it counts. When Knox dropped that pass I got the feeling that this game was either going to end in a tie or a loss. I had no hope for us scheming up a TD. I'm guessing Allen felt like had to win it all right there. It was not a good decision but I get where his head was at.

[FireChans]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

Because we can't score TDs from inside the 20. We get all the way down there making it look easy, and then get stymied where it counts. When Knox dropped that pass I got the feeling that this game was either going to end in a tie or a loss. I had no hope for us scheming up a TD. I'm guessing Allen felt like had to win it all right there. It was not a good decision but I get where his head was at.

Dorsey has been absolutely HORRIBLE in the redzone.  19th in the NFL

[Livinginthepast]

Just now, BillsBlue said:

Exactly it's like his thought process is flawed now when he really really understood situational football and winning football before the second half of the gb game, that big helmet to helmet hit he welcomed and then the one in nj is where I saw a marked difference in his thought process/ability to read defenses....orrrrrrr dorseys play calling has been predictable and terrible....or both 

Thats the issue, Josh's poor play has coincided with some curiously bad playcalling from Dorsey and some huge drops from Davis and today from Knox. His play drop off could be injury related or the same as last year Vs the Jags slump.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, BigDingus said:

He's been playing careless with the ball throughout the season, defenders have often not been able to punish it. 

 

More batted balls at the line than any time before, throwing balls into the back of your O-linemen's head, staring down guys from snap to throw, allowing coverage to know exactly where you're going with the ball...

 

It's not like he just started the turnovers in GB, he was already doing that prior. Difference is he was able to balance that out a bit with positive drives & points.

 

And just like with the COVID season, Josh plays best when he's absolved from so much pressure. When things are well, he can ride it & keep it going, but when he's in a slump, he forces things, gets desperate, then regresses on everything from reading defenses to going through progressions, to even bad mechanics...

Definitely not a good thing when you’re quarterback is bad under pressure. I mean this is the worst trait any athlete in any sport can have. 

[SoMAn]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

There's nothing wrong with him except that he's pressing because the team expects him to be the answer to everything on offense.  He's putting too much pressure on himself and forcing throws.

Agree. The defense needs to step up. Some here are saying it’s an excuse to point to injuries, but when they’re missing 3 all-pro DBs, it’s more than an excuse. 

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Dorsey has been absolutely HORRIBLE in the redzone.  19th in the NFL

 

We don't have any signature plays down there. Half our plays are running Singletary straight into the line and praying for a massive hole, the other half is Allen sprinting to the right and praying the defense plays undisciplined. You'd think we would have specific red zone plays drawn up for Cook and Hines and even Knox. The whole "check the ball down all the way to the 10 yard line" strategy would work famously if we also had a top tier red zone offense. Since we don't, defenses have learned they can "bend don't break" us to death. And all the fans see the easy short completions that are there and wonder why we don't take them 100% of the time.

 

I guess my point is that taking those easy completions doesn't automatically win you the game. Allen is forcing the issue because it's the only way we ever get big plays and long TDs from this offense. It would be sweet if those easy completions were to Hines who could gash off 20 yards after the catch just with pure speed. I don't know why we aren't fully utilizing the strengths of our personnel.

[BillsBlue]

18 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Another of you nonsensical, thoughtless,  useless,  ridiculous posts.  Keep ‘em coming

Jeez man, you getting treated ok at home?? Getting enough to eat?? Sleeping on the couch or something bud?? I'm worried about you because that's just a grouchy way to behave being that we've never even met....I'm sorry I hit a nerve partner

7 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Definitely not a good thing when you’re quarterback is bad under pressure. I mean this is the worst trait any athlete in any sport can have. 

He was always historically great against the blitz the last couple years 

22 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Talked about last week. This thread may interest you:

 

 

Thanks for the heads up great read and I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who noticed it makes me feel normal lol, hopefully he's going to be OK and gets back to being  his ja17 self

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

3 minutes ago, BillsBlue said:

Jeez man, you getting treated ok at home?? Getting enough to eat?? Sleeping on the couch or something bud?? I'm worried about you because that's just a grouchy way to behave being that we've never even met....I'm sorry I hit a nerve partner

He was always historically great against the blitz the last couple years 

Thanks for the heads up great read and I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who noticed it makes me feel normal lol, hopefully he's going to be OK and gets back to being  his ja17 self

Mental pressure. Did you even read the post I was quoting before giving it a negative reaction ?

[BillsBlue]

16 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Because we can't score TDs from inside the 20. We get all the way down there making it look easy, and then get stymied where it counts. When Knox dropped that pass I got the feeling that this game was either going to end in a tie or a loss. I had no hope for us scheming up a TD. I'm guessing Allen felt like had to win it all right there. It was not a good decision but I get where his head was at.

Play calling has been odd, we abandon the run when it was great early in the game and produced 2 tds and could've used it in the second half too and in ot

3 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Mental pressure. Did you even read the post I was quoting before giving it a negative reaction ?

I did but I disagree Josh was playing like the best qb in the league till the second half gb game imo 🤷 

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, BillsBlue said:

Play calling has been odd, we abandon the run when it was great early in the game and produced 2 tds and could've used it in the second half too and in ot

 

It is weird. Singletary wasn't able to get anything going in the 2nd half so I guess we just abandoned the run altogether. But then why are Cook and Hines on the team? Every time Cook has touched the ball the past two weeks good things have happened and we just refuse to stick with him. Hines was used exclusively as a decoy today, we didn't design any real plays to take advantage of his speed. Singletary is a decent enough RB but he is NOT a playmaker. This offense needs more playmakers. Cook and Hines give us some juice and I think they both give us excellent potential in the red zone.

[BillsBlue]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

It is weird. Singletary wasn't able to get anything going in the 2nd half so I guess we just abandoned the run altogether. But then why are Cook and Hines on the team? Every time Cook has touched the ball the past two weeks good things have happened and we just refuse to stick with him. Hines was used exclusively as a decoy today, we didn't design any real plays to take advantage of his speed. Singletary is a decent enough RB but he is NOT a playmaker. This offense needs more playmakers. Cook and Hines give us some juice and I think they both give us excellent potential in the red zone.

It's like they start out great running the ball and then get stuffed 1 or 2 times (even when we have a lead mind you a healthy one even) and just throw the ball every down non stop smh I think the play calling is maybe idiotic and thats a big part of the problem if not Josh has gotten concussion and isn't all there 

[FieldGeneral]

Josh doesn't look to his sides unless he's scrambling that direction and has to unload it. In each loss, we had 4-5 easy yards that he's refused to use. Do not understand why he's so in love with making a throw that doesn't need to be made. 

[BillsBlue]

2 minutes ago, FieldGeneral said:

Josh doesn't look to his sides unless he's scrambling that direction and has to unload it. In each loss, we had 4-5 easy yards that he's refused to use. Do not understand why he's so in love with making a throw that doesn't need to be made. 

On the interceptions no one's even close to open typically, not even close, his Interceptions in the last 2 seasons were typically receivers fault ie bounced off the receivers hands and were tip drill ints, not these ones they're legit passes to the wrong team this isn't ja17 this is mark Sanchez decision making  that's why I think somethings wrong with his noodle

[T master]

1 hour ago, McBean said:

My hypothesis:

 

Brian Daboll is now gone. 

 

Plus he has some new WR that he's not comfortable with so i think he's back to trying to force it into places he would not have . Beasley was his safety blanket he is gone & any time he has had to depend on McKenzie he usually doesn't come through only on the odd reception. 

 

Today he's keying on Diggs 90% of the time he won't even use Knox as much Shakir is someone he doesn't have a feel for yet & he's getting use to Cook but Motor is the only one he truly knows so there are so many new pieces unlike last year plus the fact Dabol isn't in his ear i think it all adds up .

 

Morris the other TE he seemed to be developing some chemistry with him but he doesn't even look his way & he had great hands early on this season . I'm not sure what is going on but Josh is definitely out of the MVP race & the Bills are out of the AFC east race until he gets back in the game .

 

Miami is going to be one hell of a game & i don't see the Bills beating them the way they are playing right now it wouldn't hurt my feeling if Beane went out & got Beasley back but that won't happen he's to proud but that would be a great weapon for Josh to have back .

 

 

[Pete]

your hypothesis?  This has been discussed a few times

[Perry Turtle]

At the beginning of the season, the passing game went low to high and had a bunch of success.  When they went deep, it was set up by the previous play calls.

 

During the Pittsburgh and KC game, Allen had success forcing the ball deep, but it planted the seeds of some bad habits.  

 

Against the Packers, Jets, and Vikings, there was a shift where Allen's locking onto the deeper throws, abandoning the shorter ones.

 

This is easily fixable with film study and game planning.  Just revisit what worked the first few games.  It's mind boggling that the coaching staff hasn't addressed this by now. 

 

But it's also mind boggling how a defense that plays nickle the entire game can't figure out how to double-team a receiver.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Perry Turtle

[BillsBlue]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

your hypothesis?  This has been discussed a few times

I'm a busy dad of 4 boys I get little time to read the boards and post etc I hadn't realized there was another post similar to this from last week....

2 minutes ago, Perry Turtle said:

At the beginning of the season, the passing game went low to high and had a bunch of success.  When they went deep, it was set up by the previous play calls.

 

During the Pittsburgh and KC game, Allen had success forcing the ball deep, but it planted the seeds of some bad habits.  

 

Against the Packers, Jets, and Vikings, there was a shift where Allen's locking onto the deeper throws, abandoning the shorter ones.

 

This is easily fixable with film study and game planning.  Just revisit what worked the first few games.  It's mind boggling that the coaching staff hasn't addressed this by now. 

 

But it's also mind boggling how a defense that plays nickle the entire game can't figure out how to double-team a receiver.

Good take 👏 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 hours ago, BillsBlue said:

Something just isn't right with our #17 our boy Blue. To me it all started after the play during the  Green Bay game where Josh tries to run the ball in the end zone down the sideline and is met with a very large DT face mask to face mask. I think Josh has been playing with a concussion since that hit and there was a hit in the jets game where Josh was on his hands and knees shaking his head side to side as well where he seemed to have had his bell rung. Flame away but this isn't how JA17 plays, somethings seriously not right and it reminds me of Trent Edward's after the Wilson hit and I'm scared...........

Don’t buy it

[Tulsabillsfanz]

Championship winning QBs usually have to be game managers much more than great play creators.  With Allen, he is our biggest great play creator.  Even today, on 3rd & 11 he runs. & drags 3 defenders for the first down. He evaded a least 2 probable sacks (for most QBs) & turned them into 20+ yard runs. He evaded the rush & completed 2 big passes on 3rd & 15 in the 4th quarter.
 

But, on that last drive I thought he was trying too hard to carry the team across the finish line by himself.  He ran the ball halfway down the field and took good hits on both carries.  He actually did hit Knox in the hands with a pass to the end zone.  However, his poor game management decision led to the game ending int.   
 

I hope coaches focus Josh on game management this week. The (mostly self-imposed) pressure to be the game winning play creator is adversely affecting his performance, in my opinion. 
 

 

[BillsBlue]

8 minutes ago, Tulsabillsfanz said:

Championship winning QBs usually have to be game managers much more than great play creators.  With Allen, he is our biggest great play creator.  Even today, on 3rd & 11 he runs. & drags 3 defenders for the first down. He evaded a least 2 probable sacks (for most QBs) & turned them into 20+ yard runs. He evaded the rush & completed 2 big passes on 3rd & 15 in the 4th quarter.
 

But, on that last drive I thought he was trying too hard to carry the team across the finish line by himself.  He ran the ball halfway down the field and took good hits on both carries.  He actually did hit Knox in the hands with a pass to the end zone.  However, his poor game management decision led to the game ending int.   
 

I hope coaches focus Josh on game management this week. The (mostly self-imposed) pressure to be the game winning play creator is adversely affecting his performance, in my opinion. 
 

 

^^^^^^^this at the very least

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

We don't have any signature plays down there. Half our plays are running Singletary straight into the line and praying for a massive hole, the other half is Allen sprinting to the right and praying the defense plays undisciplined. You'd think we would have specific red zone plays drawn up for Cook and Hines and even Knox. The whole "check the ball down all the way to the 10 yard line" strategy would work famously if we also had a top tier red zone offense. Since we don't, defenses have learned they can "bend don't break" us to death. And all the fans see the easy short completions that are there and wonder why we don't take them 100% of the time.

 

I guess my point is that taking those easy completions doesn't automatically win you the game. Allen is forcing the issue because it's the only way we ever get big plays and long TDs from this offense. It would be sweet if those easy completions were to Hines who could gash off 20 yards after the catch just with pure speed. I don't know why we aren't fully utilizing the strengths of our personnel.

Its so crazy. We can move at will and then there's nothing we can do inside the 10.

[BillsBlue]

9 hours ago, FireChans said:

Its so crazy. We can move at will and then there's nothing we can do inside the 10.

I think it's play calling, whenever we hit the red zone dorsey just has Allen start throwing it to the ez over and over 

Edited November 14, 2022 by BillsBlue

[LABILLBACKER]

15 hours ago, BillsBlue said:

It's just odd it's been such a dramatic change, I just wonder if it's a concussion or play calling or both smh 🤦 

It's a combination of both. Also Josh is definitely pressing. The whole world has already anointed the Bills SB winners. Now with injuries and mistakes we're coming back to earth.

[BillsBlue]

On 11/13/2022 at 6:48 PM, FireChans said:

Dorsey has been absolutely HORRIBLE in the redzone.  19th in the NFL

I agree the play calls and designs are crap

On 11/14/2022 at 8:25 AM, LABILLBACKER said:

It's a combination of both. Also Josh is definitely pressing. The whole world has already anointed the Bills SB winners. Now with injuries and mistakes we're coming back to earth.

Injuries have played a huge role especially not having tre,po and Hyde in the backfield that's 3 all pros, teams would be screwed if they were all playing....maybe Josh is cracking under the pressure of being called the nfls best qb etc 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

On 11/13/2022 at 5:03 PM, BillsBlue said:

Something just isn't right with our #17 our boy Blue. To me it all started after the play during the  Green Bay game where Josh tries to run the ball in the end zone down the sideline and is met with a very large DT face mask to face mask. I think Josh has been playing with a concussion since that hit and there was a hit in the jets game where Josh was on his hands and knees shaking his head side to side as well where he seemed to have had his bell rung. Flame away but this isn't how JA17 plays, somethings seriously not right and it reminds me of Trent Edward's after the Wilson hit and I'm scared...........

I think our team has 0 confidence we can pick up tough yards in a goal to go situation so he is pressing to get the ball into the end zone in the red zone 

 

gotta figure out the run blocking and everything else will fall into place 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan