Why are we playing in KC two years in a row?

[BLeonard]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Assuming both teams finish in 1st place, else it can vary.

 

 

 

Understand the whole formula thing and agree no conspiracy going on however per your comment above

 

Last year AFC East played the AFC South and KC did host.  So you sure about what you wrote??

 

Yes.  In 2021, the AFC East Played the AFCS (B), meaning the Bills hosted the Colts and Texans, while on the road at Tennessee and Jacksonville.  The Bills hosted the AFC North team that finished in 1st (Pittsburgh) which is Column E on the graph.  They were on the road at KC, who finished first in the AFCW (Column G).

 

Columns I and K are just me flipping the alternate years (highlighted in yellow) to eliminate the whole "2 year rotation" that people were discussing.  They aren't part of the actual schedule formula.  I included those to show that, if the NFL switched (thus eliminating the "2 year rotation") the issue would occur that whenever a team played a certain division, they would NEVER have the chance to play in one venue or the other.

 

To illustrate, looking again at 2021, if the NFL didn't have the "2 year rotation," the Bills would have played the AFC South (B) like normal, had KC at Home and been on the road at Pittsburgh.  The problem is, if you look at 2018, the last time the Bills played the AFC South (A), they would have also had the Chiefs at home, with Pittsburgh on the road.  Under that scenario (Eliminating the "2 year rotation") anytime the Bills (and the rest of the AFC East) would play the AFC South, they would ALWAYS play on the road of the AFC North team and ALWAYS host the AFC West team.

 

Long story short, the "2 year rotation" allows for teams to host and visit teams from the other two divisions, provided they finish in the same place within their divisions.  Without it, teams would either be hosting or visiting the same division every time.

 

That's why I'm guessing that the league prefers to use the "2 year rotation," so that they aren't, for example, locking the entire AFC East to have to go on the road to the AFC North every year the schedule has the East playing all four teams in the South.

 

Hope that makes sense.

[No_Matter_What]

9 hours ago, chongli said:

I explained this in a thread a few months ago to someone asking the same question. This question comes up every few months.

 

Teams play same-seeded division teams in the conference teams for two straight times, either both home or both away. Then it rotates for the next two times. So since Buffalo and KC finished first in their divisions, respectively, in 2020 and 2021, we played KC away two straight times. The next two times the same-seeded AFC West team will be at our home, no matter who it is or where we are seeded in our respective divisions.

 

Note: this particular rotation above doesn't apply for times our division plays all four teams in another division in the conference. That is a different rotation. So it will not apply next year when we play the entire AFC West. But the next two times after that when we play the West, the same-seeded team will be at our place.

Bolded is not true. It is only true for AFC East games vs other divisions. All other divisions actually do rotate home/away games within those two years when teams play opponents with the same ranking. However, they do not rotate the way I would expect it, i.e. H/A/H/A, but rather H/A/A/H, which means that it in fact might not be an actual rotation based on specific teams played at home and on the road in those years when teams play complete opposite division. The way it works:

 

East vs South, East vs West, East vs North:

Home, Home, Whole Division, Away, Away, Whole Division, rinse repeat

 

South vs North, South vs West, North vs West:

Home, Away, Whole Division, Away, Home, Whole Division, rinse repeat

 

As follows from the above, even teams from other divisions can play same opponent 3 times in a row at the same place, but it is not guaranteed - it depends on specific opponent. In case of AFC East, it doesn't matter - as long as end up being at the same place in division as any other team, you'll play them 3x at home and 3x on road.

 

I didn't check NFC, but I guess it works the same there.

 

 

8 hours ago, BLeonard said:

The easiest way to explain this is to look at the schedule in six year chunks.  I didn't bother to include the NFC matchups.

 

Below, I started with Josh's rookie year and went through 2023.  Columns E and G show the 2 year rotation on the games that are created by teams finishing in the same place within their divisions (1st from the East hosted 1st from the West in 2018, 2nd East Hosted 2nd West and so on).

 

In columns I and K, I flipped the alternating years highlighted in yellow to eliminate that 2 year rotation, since from what I've read, your major question is "why is the two year rotation not a 'home and home' rotation?".  If you look across the rows under that scenario, you'd see that the Bills would NEVER have the chance to host the Chiefs in a year where the AFC East played the AFC North.  KC would also NEVER have the chance to host the Bills any year the AFC East played the AFC South.

 

It boils down to, which would you rather have?  A chance at playing at the same place 3 years in a row, or knowing that anytime the Bills play the AFCN, they CAN'T host ANY AFCW team.

 

So, they could they rotate every season, but my guess is, the NFL would rather have the 2 year rotation instead of locking teams out of ANY chance of playing at a given location every time they play a certain opposite division.

 

 

Well, this is an interesting theory. I appreciate that you did some research and tried to understand how things work. I have 3 comments:

 

1. Like I said above, rotation is different between various divisions. East is the only division in the AFC which does not rotate games at all.

 

2. I think you are wrong in the blue statement. They couldn't rotate. I played with it, and I don't think you can make all divisions rotate. Try it and let me know  That is why I think it is actually not working this way - it is impossible to do it.

 

3. Certainly an interesting theory. But I think you ask good question in red and there is an obvious anwser - you'd want to rotate home and away games. It really seems a stretch to me that such thing as you describe would be relevant. How does it matter that you can't host any AFC West team in the same year you play AFC North? It seems really minor to me. Actually, if this was the case, then they should also change how they schedule years when you play complete divisions. We always play Chiefs and Chargers either at home or at road, so we never have a chance to play Chargers on road when we play Chiefs at home.

 

To sum it up, it still remains mystery to me why they use this formula. If you find something out, let me know

[Buffalo Ballin]

This is a great thing. Arrowhead is our 2nd home. There is no home field advantage anymore for Kansas City Chiefs.

 

- Kansas City's winds? That's not going to work. We're used to that.

- The ice cold? Nah. That's how we want it.

- The hostile fans? We been to their house so many times that they don't matter. Just empty noise.

- Their field? We're used to that as well.

 

Screw their home field.

[eball]

@Virgil — here you go

 

You’re welcome. 👍🏻

[Talley56]

I'm more upset by how low our draft picks have been over the last few years.  We used to draft so high but lately the NFL won't even let us pick in the top 20.

[Doc]

I like that the NFL gave them a 4:15 PM home game after their Monday Night game.   

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, eball said:

@Virgil — here you go

 

You’re welcome. 👍🏻

Oh but see that’s not enough for these people eball; they want to know WHY they do it that way, because obviously it’s some sort of screwjob against the bills 🤣😎

[RyanC883]

15 hours ago, Virgil said:

Possibly dumb question, but I don’t understand why we are playing at KC during the regular season two years in a row.  
 

Both games are played because both teams won their division each season.  This is not because we are facing the AFC West.  
 

Shouldn’t home and away be rotated?

 

**I fully understand the home and away scheduling for playing divisions.  We play the AFC West next season and will play KC in KC, because KC came to Buffalo the last time we played the AFC West.  

 

so 3 years in a row 

[Rochesterfan]

3 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

Bolded is not true. It is only true for AFC East games vs other divisions. All other divisions actually do rotate home/away games within those two years when teams play opponents with the same ranking. However, they do not rotate the way I would expect it, i.e. H/A/H/A, but rather H/A/A/H, which means that it in fact might not be an actual rotation based on specific teams played at home and on the road in those years when teams play complete opposite division. The way it works:

 

East vs South, East vs West, East vs North:

Home, Home, Whole Division, Away, Away, Whole Division, rinse repeat

 

South vs North, South vs West, North vs West:

Home, Away, Whole Division, Away, Home, Whole Division, rinse repeat

 

As follows from the above, even teams from other divisions can play same opponent 3 times in a row at the same place, but it is not guaranteed - it depends on specific opponent. In case of AFC East, it doesn't matter - as long as end up being at the same place in division as any other team, you'll play them 3x at home and 3x on road.

 

I didn't check NFC, but I guess it works the same there.

 

 

 

Well, this is an interesting theory. I appreciate that you did some research and tried to understand how things work. I have 3 comments:

 

1. Like I said above, rotation is different between various divisions. East is the only division in the AFC which does not rotate games at all.

 

2. I think you are wrong in the blue statement. They couldn't rotate. I played with it, and I don't think you can make all divisions rotate. Try it and let me know  That is why I think it is actually not working this way - it is impossible to do it.

 

3. Certainly an interesting theory. But I think you ask good question in red and there is an obvious anwser - you'd want to rotate home and away games. It really seems a stretch to me that such thing as you describe would be relevant. How does it matter that you can't host any AFC West team in the same year you play AFC North? It seems really minor to me. Actually, if this was the case, then they should also change how they schedule years when you play complete divisions. We always play Chiefs and Chargers either at home or at road, so we never have a chance to play Chargers on road when we play Chiefs at home.

 

To sum it up, it still remains mystery to me why they use this formula. If you find something out, let me know

 

 

The thing is that the rotation is the same - it is still doubled with just a different starting point.

 

AFC East -  H,H, division, A, A, Division - paired couplets.

 

AFC North - H,A, Division, A, H, Division - same paired couplets- just slide 1 spot to ensure proper home and away schedules.

 

All divisions end up with potential 3 games against a team at home or on the road versus a team depending on record and where the H/A division games fall based upon that preset rotation.

 

 

[ROCBillsBeliever]

15 hours ago, Virgil said:

Possibly dumb question, but I don’t understand why we are playing at KC during the regular season two years in a row.  
 

Both games are played because both teams won their division each season.  This is not because we are facing the AFC West.  
 

Shouldn’t home and away be rotated?

 

**I fully understand the home and away scheduling for playing divisions.  We play the AFC West next season and will play KC in KC, because KC came to Buffalo the last time we played the AFC West.  

 

I know a guy who could tell you why:

 

https://youtu.be/NyhAJEPEHk4

 

Can somebody please off that MFer?

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, eball said:

Sorry for the outburst but can we pin a goddamn link to the board about the standard NFL scheduling rules?  I have seen, no lie, at least a half dozen posts today bemoaning that "we always have to play KC on the road" when the answers are very logical and very clear.

 

IT'S A FORMULA.  THE BILLS DIDN'T GET SCREWED.  IT'S DUMB LUCK.

 

That is all.

 

 

Yup.

 

There is literally always good reason to complain. Putting together a schedule is a task with unlimited complexity, just millions of factors to be considered.

 

There are also always reasons to be happy. They do their best.

 

From what I remember they put in their requirements and then they generate possible schedules and there are millions of them. They throw out the ones with obvious problems, and they can quickly eliminate a huge number but they are left with thousands and thousands of options, each of which comes with many strong advantages and many strong disadvantages. And they just do their best to balance everything and pick their best option with all things considered. But you will absolutely have things to complain about, always. And things to celebrate. For every single team.

 

Here's Peter King on a shortened version of how they put together the 2021 season:

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/05/16/nfl-schedule-release-fmia-peter-king/

 

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, eball said:

 

WE GOT SCREWED!!!  WHY DO WE ALWAYS PLAY KC ON THE ROAD???????

 

 

 

Love, love, love me some Brian Regan! Guy's a genius!

[No_Matter_What]

45 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

The thing is that the rotation is the same - it is still doubled with just a different starting point.

 

AFC East -  H,H, division, A, A, Division - paired couplets.

 

AFC North - H,A, Division, A, H, Division - same paired couplets- just slide 1 spot to ensure proper home and away schedules.

 

All divisions end up with potential 3 games against a team at home or on the road versus a team depending on record and where the H/A division games fall based upon that preset rotation.

 

 

Not sure if we understand each other but I don't think you're right. The rotation isn't necessarily the same.

 

I'll use your example. In both cases, you need to split it into two scenarios for the sake of this argument - depending on where do you actually play those "Division" games (you play 2 games at home and 2 on road). So it goes like this:

 

AFC East:

H, H, H (div), A, A, A (div) or

H, H, A (div), A, A, H (div)

 

So no matter what, the rotation is still 3 home games and 3 road games. But in AFC North / AFC South scenario it works differently:

 

AFC North:

H, A, A (div), A, H, H (div) or

H, A, H (div), A, H, A (div).

 

So in this case, depending on specific opponents, there can be real H/A rotation on yearly basis.

 

To give an example - if Chiefs and Steelers end up winning their divisions each year, they WILL rotate home and away games each year in HAHAHA fashion. Same with Chiefs and Browns. But if Chiefs end up playing Ravens or Bengals, it will go HHHAAA.

 

And just to be clear, since there are apparently some posters here who feel the need to ridicule anyone who cares about this topic - I don't think this is an attempt to screw Bills or anything. I just find this part of scheduling very interesting and would love to know why it is working this way.

 

 

[djp14150]

4 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

Bolded is not true. It is only true for AFC East games vs other divisions. All other divisions actually do rotate home/away games within those two years when teams play opponents with the same ranking. However, they do not rotate the way I would expect it, i.e. H/A/H/A, but rather H/A/A/H, which means that it in fact might not be an actual rotation based on specific teams played at home and on the road in those years when teams play complete opposite division. The way it works:

 

East vs South, East vs West, East vs North:

Home, Home, Whole Division, Away, Away, Whole Division, rinse repeat

 

South vs North, South vs West, North vs West:

Home, Away, Whole Division, Away, Home, Whole Division, rinse repeat

 

As follows from the above, even teams from other divisions can play same opponent 3 times in a row at the same place, but it is not guaranteed - it depends on specific opponent. In case of AFC East, it doesn't matter - as long as end up being at the same place in division as any other team, you'll play them 3x at home and 3x on road.

 

I didn't check NFC, but I guess it works the same there.

 

 

 

Well, this is an interesting theory. I appreciate that you did some research and tried to understand how things work. I have 3 comments:

 

1. Like I said above, rotation is different between various divisions. East is the only division in the AFC which does not rotate games at all.

 

2. I think you are wrong in the blue statement. They couldn't rotate. I played with it, and I don't think you can make all divisions rotate. Try it and let me know  That is why I think it is actually not working this way - it is impossible to do it.

 

3. Certainly an interesting theory. But I think you ask good question in red and there is an obvious anwser - you'd want to rotate home and away games. It really seems a stretch to me that such thing as you describe would be relevant. How does it matter that you can't host any AFC West team in the same year you play AFC North? It seems really minor to me. Actually, if this was the case, then they should also change how they schedule years when you play complete divisions. We always play Chiefs and Chargers either at home or at road, so we never have a chance to play Chargers on road when we play Chiefs at home.

 

To sum it up, it still remains mystery to me why they use this formula. If you find something out, let me know

 

let’s start from scratch…….our goal is to have everyone rotate every year.

 

this season it’s E-wS, N-sW, S-eN,W-nE ( caps are home)

 

next year E divisional for isW so placements are NAND S.  Since east hosted  S this year…next year it must be on the road.

 

2023. E-sN, N-eW

 

now N vs W is forced to have two in a row.

 

QED

 

[djp14150]

14 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Since this is the second year we are playing them (because of 1st place teams in the conference), shouldn’t it rotate, by them coming to Buffalo this year?

it’s done by a formula.

 

2022. E-N, at west, south

2023 E-W, at north, south

2024 E-S, west, at north

2025 E-N west, at south 

2026 E-W north, at south 

2027 E-S north, at west 

 

other divisions have different rotational patterns.it forces one to do consecutive years at same site. You can’t do it constantly rotating with all divisions.

[BLeonard]

4 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

Bolded is not true. It is only true for AFC East games vs other divisions. All other divisions actually do rotate home/away games within those two years when teams play opponents with the same ranking. However, they do not rotate the way I would expect it, i.e. H/A/H/A, but rather H/A/A/H, which means that it in fact might not be an actual rotation based on specific teams played at home and on the road in those years when teams play complete opposite division. The way it works:

 

East vs South, East vs West, East vs North:

Home, Home, Whole Division, Away, Away, Whole Division, rinse repeat

 

South vs North, South vs West, North vs West:

Home, Away, Whole Division, Away, Home, Whole Division, rinse repeat

 

As follows from the above, even teams from other divisions can play same opponent 3 times in a row at the same place, but it is not guaranteed - it depends on specific opponent. In case of AFC East, it doesn't matter - as long as end up being at the same place in division as any other team, you'll play them 3x at home and 3x on road.

 

I didn't check NFC, but I guess it works the same there.

 

 

 

Well, this is an interesting theory. I appreciate that you did some research and tried to understand how things work. I have 3 comments:

 

1. Like I said above, rotation is different between various divisions. East is the only division in the AFC which does not rotate games at all.

 

2. I think you are wrong in the blue statement. They couldn't rotate. I played with it, and I don't think you can make all divisions rotate. Try it and let me know  That is why I think it is actually not working this way - it is impossible to do it.

 

3. Certainly an interesting theory. But I think you ask good question in red and there is an obvious anwser - you'd want to rotate home and away games. It really seems a stretch to me that such thing as you describe would be relevant. How does it matter that you can't host any AFC West team in the same year you play AFC North? It seems really minor to me. Actually, if this was the case, then they should also change how they schedule years when you play complete divisions. We always play Chiefs and Chargers either at home or at road, so we never have a chance to play Chargers on road when we play Chiefs at home.

 

To sum it up, it still remains mystery to me why they use this formula. If you find something out, let me know

 

I looked at this a bit further and, yeah, the whole idea of flipping the alternate years wouldn't work, it screws up the rest of the divisions.  I was just viewing it through the AFC East's lens, which obviously the NFL doesn't do.

 

So, I did a new sheet for 2018-2023, covering the entire AFC.  To simplify, I used last year's division winners to represent the matchups, as I found it easier to work with actual teams than A,B,C,D.  Using that, you can see where, in theory, every team could host another for three seasons in a row.

 

Bills Host KC in years 1-3 (H,H, Whole West), KC Hosts Bills in years 4-6 (H,H, Whole East)

Bills Host Ten in years 5-6 & 1 (H,H, Whole South), Ten Hosts Bills in years 2-4 (H,H, Whole South)

Bills Host CIN in years 2-4 (Whole North, H, H), CIN Hosts Bills in years 5-6 & 1 (Whole North, H, H).

 

 

I also don't think there's much they can do about it, either, especially since we're talking about 2 random games that may or may not happen, depending on where teams finish in the standings.  The rest of the formula is about as balanced as you can ask for.  Certainly better than what they had in the past.

 

O/T:  Bit of Bills schedule trivia for anyone that cares.  When Jim Kelly retired after the 1996 season, there were 30 teams in the league.  During his career, he played against 28 of them.  Besides the Bills, which team did Kelly never play against? (PS, not thinking of the Ravens here, they had just started in 96).

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, BLeonard said:

 

O/T:  Bit of Bills schedule trivia for anyone that cares.  When Jim Kelly retired after the 1996 season, there were 30 teams in the league.  During his career, he played against 28 of them.  Besides the Bills, which team did Kelly never play against? (PS, not thinking of the Ravens here, they had just started in 96).

 

Obvious answer has to be Carolina? NFC and new to the league in 1995?

[BLeonard]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Obvious answer has to be Carolina? NFC and new to the league in 1995?

Nope, Kelly played Carolina week 2 of 95.  Reich was the starter for the Panthers.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by BLeonard

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, BLeonard said:

Nope, Kelly played Carolina week 2 of 95.  Reich was the starter for the Panthers.

 

Then Jacksonville?

 

EDIT: scrub that I know that is wrong... they were his last game weren't they?

Edited October 12, 2022 by GunnerBill

[BLeonard]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Then Jacksonville?

96 playoffs, Kelly's last game.

[chongli]

On 10/12/2022 at 7:44 AM, BLeonard said:

 

O/T:  Bit of Bills schedule trivia for anyone that cares.  When Jim Kelly retired after the 1996 season, there were 30 teams in the league.  During his career, he played against 28 of them.  Besides the Bills, which team did Kelly never play against? (PS, not thinking of the Ravens here, they had just started in 96).

 

Buffalo never played San Diego during Kelly's tenure. I learned something new today. Thank you for asking! And for all your research and taking the time to do a chart, etc.

 

Back then, long times between playing teams was common. Buffalo didn't host Seattle from 1976, when Seattle first entered the NFL as an expansion team, until 1995. So for almost two decades Bills fans never got the privilege of watching the Seahawks in the Rich. And, from 1976 to 2007, we played 8 out of our 10 games against them at Seattle.

Edited October 13, 2022 by chongli

[LABILLBACKER]

So based on this formula and the fact that both KC and Buffalo remain on top of their divisions we will play:

2023 @ KC

2024 @ BUF

2025 @ BUF

2026 @ BUF

[chongli]

On 10/12/2022 at 7:53 AM, BLeonard said:

96 playoffs, Kelly's last game.

 

LOL. Don't remind us of that. I watched it live and did not want Kelly's career to end that way.

[Nextmanup]

52 minutes ago, chongli said:

 

LOL. Don't remind us of that. I watched it live and did not want Kelly's career to end that way.

Here's a nice highlight video of that game.  I just watched it.  I forgot what a close, tight game that was.

 

 

[Captain Caveman]

On 10/11/2022 at 4:55 PM, Gugny said:

 

I feel like we play New England twice every single season.

You're just being paranoid