The Evolution of Tyrel Dodson

[Beck Water]

Dodson has been in the league 4 years.  He was an UDFA out of Texas A&M.

 

His first year, 2019, he was suspended then cut when he came off suspension and signed to the PS.

His 2nd year, 2020, he got 2 starts.  Against MIA, both Milano and Edmunds were out.  I *think* they had Dodson as the MLB and Klein trying to fill Milano's role, and it wasn't pretty.  Against TEN, Edmunds played (but with an injured wing) and Dodson played for Milano, and it was worse.

 

For stat watchers, Dodson had a decent day vs Mia (2 PD, 1 TFL, 8 tackles).  7 tackles vs. Tenn.   But it was clear he couldn't cover the ground they can cover, or do whatever it is the Bills expect them to do (people have commented that the Bills move responsibilities around to where Johnson plays more of a LB role and Milano or even Edmunds more of a NCB role at times). 

 

Dodson just didn't seem up to the details.

 

Example: last year in the NE weather game, there was a play one of the film commentators broke down which shed a little light on the details of communication that make the defense go.  Dodson was engaged with a blocker, Hyde (I think) took the wrong hole, and NE broke a big run.  The commentator said Dodson lied to Hyde and explained what he meant was, Dodson is supposed to look opposite to the direction he's moving his guy.  Hyde reads that key and takes that hole, expecting that's where the RB will be.  Dodson looked L and moved his guy L, so the runner cut R and Hyde (responding to his key) was out of position for the tackle resulting in a big gain.

 

Anyway, I was not a Dodson fan, and I know many here were expecting to see Terrel Bernard as Edmunds'  backup.

 

I always need to watch all-22 to know what's going on, but it seems to me that our D was pretty mistake free in the details yesterday.   I didn't see people out of position, so if Dodson was calling the D he did a sound job in the 4/5 of the game he played.  11 tackles, 1 TFL.   They took him off ST which may have helped.  If they depend on Dodson for their "keys", didn't seem as though Hamlin or Johnson were ever out of position so he must have given them "good body language".

 

I had that feeling about the whole game, that the backups knew they had big shoes to fill but had been focused and detailed in their preparation with the guys who wouldn't play working with them to help them get it right, and they were gonna "make them proud" - this is based on Jaquan Johnson's pregame speech about how Hyde and Poyer and White are with us.  I thought they did well.

 

Anyone else?

[JohnNord]

Is the next evolution as starting MLB?

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I really like Dodson. I always want him to get a chance but at the same time don’t wish the situation in which he gets it.

[Bob in STL]

Dodson is a beast on ST and he now looks to be a very competent back up LB for us.  

 

Any talk of him replacing Edmunds is a reach.  Which is why Bernard was drafted in R3.  

 

 

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Is the next evolution as starting MLB?

 

I think Simon made a comment to that regard in the post-game thread - that he thought Milano and Dodson could be next year's starting LB.

 

I dunno how I feel about that.  On the other hand, as well as I could tell from the televised film, Dodson played a sound, physical game.

 

On the other hand, Pickett is hardly the Master at manipulating defenders with his lyin' eyes that Mahomes is.

 

9 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I really like Dodson. I always want him to get a chance but at the same time don’t wish the situation in which he gets it.

 

I was not a Dodson fan, but he may have converted me.  We'll get a better read next week if Edmunds still can't go.

 

2 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Yep.  All in the news and better than- "Breece Hall- discuss!"

 

With all respect, it would be helpful if you could stop fluffing this troll, who got hurt in his feelings when SDS closed his thread and is trying his best to derail a thread I put some research and time and effort into starting.

 

What did you think of Dodson's play yesterday?

Edited October 10, 2022 by Beck Water

[mushypeaches]

Dodson did a great job yesterday against an outclassed opponent.  It's clear how far he's developed and come over the past few years.

 

But I don't think he'll ever have the speed or instincts to be a starting LB in our current system.

Bernard is clearly likely to be the Edmunds replacement if that day comes next year

[Beck Water]

13 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Dodson is a beast on ST and he now looks to be a very competent back up LB for us.  

 

Any talk of him replacing Edmunds is a reach.  Which is why Bernard was drafted in R3. 

 

Do you really see Bernard as a potential Edmunds replacement?  Edmunds is 6'5" 250.  Bernard seems as though he's built more like a strong safety.

 

 

4 minutes ago, mushypeaches said:

Dodson did a great job yesterday against an outclassed opponent.  It's clear how far he's developed and come over the past few years.

 

But I don't think he'll ever have the speed or instincts to be a starting LB in our current system.

Bernard is clearly likely to be the Edmunds replacement if that day comes next year

 

You're the second person to say that, but do you really see Bernard as that fast?  He didn't run the 40 at the combine.

 

He seems like a "tweener" to me, and while Milano has built himself into a Beast from a tweener, that seems as though it might be harder at the MLB position.  One thing I noticed with Damar and Jaquan manning the safety positions is that they seemed to be in the right place with good technique, but while Poyer or Hyde would hit someone and flatten them, Hamlin and Johnson seemed to consistently get dragged to the line to gain and past it.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Beck Water

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

Do you really see Bernard as a potential Edmunds replacement?  Edmunds is 6'5" 250.  Bernard seems as though he's built more like a strong safety.

 

 

 

You're the second person to say that, but do you really see Bernard as that fast?

a knock on Bernard was his timed speed, he might play faster than it but in the preseason he showed that he wasn't the fastest of guys but think he did better than diagnosing things than Edmunds does. 

[mushypeaches]

I think that it's more that Bernard is closer to the body type and skill set vs what Dodson brings

 

Very few players are going to have the physical tools that Edmunds possesses, but I think the staff views Bernard as having potential there

[Ross Murdock]

I trust Bean/McDermott - They drafter Bernard for a reason. Dodson is a fine backup/special teamer. Edmunds is playing lights out. I realize they can't keep everyone. I'd rather see Bernard get more reps to see what we have. If Dodson starts against the Chiefs and plays lights out, then maybe the game has slowed down for him, and he's the real deal. Nice problem to have at MLB.      

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

a knock on Bernard was his timed speed, he might play faster than it but in the preseason he showed that he wasn't the fastest of guys but think he did better than diagnosing things than Edmunds does. 

 

Have we really had any opportunity at all to compare their abilities to diagnose things in a meaningful way? Could you explain what you've seen?

[Einstein]

Dodson was impressive and I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that it’s him and Milano next season.

[Big Turk]

Bills may be the best team in the NFL in terms of developing players.  It's really impressive how they simply plug in the next guy up and they play very well for the most part, even if they are rookies off the PS.

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

Have we really had any opportunity at all to compare their abilities to diagnose things in a meaningful way? Could you explain what you've seen?

Edmunds just seems like a step behind the play. Often it feels like he feels his athleticism is enough to get the job done or he gets washed out by an offensive lineman as he doesn't read the play but instead just running to a spot. 

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

Bills may be the best team in the NFL in terms of developing players.  It's really impressive how they simply plug in the next guy up and they play very well for the most part, even if they are rookies off the PS.

It helps when the program has been in place for years.  One of the main benefits of continuity.  Not only have all of these guys been specifically chosen by this regime, but many- like Dodson- have been in the system for years.

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, mushypeaches said:

I think that it's more that Bernard is closer to the body type and skill set vs what Dodson brings

 

?

Bernard 6'1", 220.  Didn't run the 40 at the combine, but said to run 4.56 40.  30 1/4" arms.  123" broad jump.

Dodson 6'0", 235.  Ran a 4.6 40 at the combine.  31 3/4" arms.  118" broad jump. 

 

What is it about Bernard's body type that says "closer to 6'5" 250 lb 34 1/2" wingspan than Dodson, to you? (117" broad jump)

 

Milano for comparison: 6'0" 223, 4.67 40, 32" arms, 126" broad jump.  IMHO Bernard is physically closer to Milano, who had to hone his speed and anticipation to avoid trying to make tackles out of position and getting hurt.

 

Zierlein gave Milano and Bernard pretty much identical grades, FWIW: 5.9x, "average backup or special teamer".  Dodson graded lower as "candidate for bottom of roster or practice squad".

 

5 minutes ago, mushypeaches said:

Very few players are going to have the physical tools that Edmunds possesses, but I think the staff views Bernard as having potential there

 

They must view Bernard has having potential or they wouldn't have drafted him in the 3rd round, but I do know the pick left some here scratching their heads.  Hopefully it comes down to that immeasurable "size of the fight in the dog" thing.

[Big Turk]

Just now, SWATeam said:

It helps when the program has been in place for years.  One of the main benefits of continuity.  Not only have all of these guys been specifically chosen by this regime, but many- like Dodson- have been in the system for years.

 

Yes, that is a part of it as well...they also might be the best in terms of choosing guys that maybe aren't the best "player" per say but the best scheme fit for what they need a player to do.  

[Beck Water]

13 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Edmunds just seems like a step behind the play. Often it feels like he feels his athleticism is enough to get the job done or he gets washed out by an offensive lineman as he doesn't read the play but instead just running to a spot. 

 

OK, that's not what I see, but it's a common view.  But where have you had the opportunity to compare Bernard's instincts to diagnose a play and say that they're better?

 

4 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

It helps when the program has been in place for years.  One of the main benefits of continuity.  Not only have all of these guys been specifically chosen by this regime, but many- like Dodson- have been in the system for years.

 

People continually skate past the importance of continuity when they start clamoring to blow things up and bring in a "better" coach than McDermott.

 

One of the reasons that the Steelers have been competitive forever has been Big Ben.  The other has been continuity of head coach and scheme. 

 

I will never ever again believe a guy like Wrecks Ryan who claims he'll come in and adapt his scheme to the players we have when he's known for a very different philosophy.  I will say "his lips move, he's lying".

Edited October 10, 2022 by Beck Water

[Bob in STL]

21 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Do you really see Bernard as a potential Edmunds replacement?  Edmunds is 6'5" 250.  Bernard seems as though he's built more like a strong safety.

 

 

I am old school in that I love a throwback style MLB but that is not how the Pass oriented NFL works today, especially the Bills defense for that matter. 

 

Is Edmunds really a MLB if we play a 2 LB scheme?  Does he need to be proto-type 6'5" and 250 to fit what the Bills do?   I like the size but does he need it to do what the Bills do?  The fact that Edmunds is that mobile and can cover makes him a freaky guy but is he better in our defensive system than Milano?  

 

If Bernard is a tweener than so is Milano.   Bernad is 6'1", 225, he is a Milano clone in that regard.   Milano is 6'0", 223.  Dodson is 6'0", 237. 

 

If Bernard replaces Edmunds we have two "tweeners" at LB, so we better have some beef at DT to keep these guys clean.  LBs, safeties, and corners all have to be quick and all have to tackle to work in our system.  

 

Final Comment:  I want Edmunds to stay if Beane can figure it out.  I think Dodson and Bernard are step down from him, despite how well they played against an ailing Pittsburgh offense.  

[mjt328]

When Doug Whaley was our GM, the attitude was... "just draft good players, and let the coaching staff figure it out."  He often picked high-floor prospects from big schools, who were able to hit the ground running as rookies.  It was then on Doug Marrone/Rex Ryan to fit those guys into their system.  The end result was a somewhat talented roster, but mediocre results on the field.

 

Brandon Beane's strategy is much different.  The players he drafts are full of athletic traits that perfectly blend into Sean McDermott's system.  High-ceiling guys that usually require a few years of development.

 

Much of what we are seeing this season... Damar Hamlin, Jaquan Johnson, Tyrel Dodson, AJ Epenesa, Boogie Basham, Greg Rousseau... is the result of that strategy.  These guys have been learning and developing (some for multiple years), slowly getting better and patiently waiting their turn.  That's why the defense has been gutted by injuries over the first 5 weeks, but has managed very little drop-off with backups.

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

If he has to start vs. Chiefs I don’t think people are going to see him as so “evolved”

[benderbender]

 

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

OK, that's not what I see, but it's a common view.  But where have you had the opportunity to compare Bernard's instincts to diagnose a play and say that they're better?

It is not Edmunds hate. It is a frustration with his lack of progression and development. We saw more base instinct in the preseason with Bernard than Tremaine’s 5 years of NFL experience and I think it’s started to dawn on us that he’s just not that guy. We wanted both. We thought Milano’s instinct would rub off on him or he’d develop his own by now. 

 

He plays sheet music very well but he can’t freestyle. He’s your best 9 to 5 but he’s not a supervisor. He’s great at what they’ve accepted of him and don’t ask him to do more. Maybe we should too.

Edited October 10, 2022 by benderbender

[HOUSE]

Disguised Edmunds thread,  nicely done

[Beck Water]

37 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

If Bernard is a tweener than so is Milano.   Bernad is 6'1", 225, he is a Milano clone in that regard.   Milano is 6'0", 223.  Dodson is 6'0", 237. 

 

Absolutely Milano was a "tweener".  He fell to the 5th round in part because he was a converted safety at BC and teams doubted he could hold down a full time LB role in the NFL - not fast enough to be a safety and not enough beef to shed blocks as a LB.  So Milano is a tweener who worked fiercely and sculpted his body to succeed as an LB.

 

Bernard can do likewise, but he's gonna have to work hard at it, which is kind of where you want to be with a 5th round guy, not a 3rd rounder?  🤷‍♂️  At least, one of my beefs with the Bills drafting pre-Beane was that they were always acting like "the smartest guy in the room" and using the 2-3 rounds to take shots on the guys who could be great if only they re-worked themselves like Torrell Troup over Rob Gronkowski or Linval Joseph (yes I'm still salty why do you ask?)

 

Anyway I think the Bills still do that to some extent, Beane's philosophy is to use early rounds to draft guys with a high ceiling due to physical traits you can't coach - like Edmunds - and develop them.  But when you can't pay everyone, if guys need too long to develop then you get to watch them walk, just when they've started to reach their potential.

 

37 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Final Comment:  I want Edmunds to stay if Beane can figure it out.  I think Dodson and Bernard are step down from him, despite how well they played against an ailing Pittsburgh offense.  

 

I dunno about Bernard yet.  Contrary to some here I haven't seen enough snaps from him in a game to have a judgement about how his instincts and decision making transfer to the NFL. 

 

As far as Dodson, I was pleasantly surprised by the game he played yesterday and the amount of territory he covered.  But frankly, a rookie QB is not much of a decision-making challenge.  We'll see what we see next week if Edmunds can't go or starts and goes down.

 

6 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Disguised Edmunds thread,  nicely done

 

Yeah I didn't mean it that way of course, but since Dodson is the MLB backup who started yesterday and Edmunds is the starting MLB I suppose it is inevitable.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Beck Water

[T master]

He was all over the field this last game making tackles every where they better not let another team steal him ! Playing as good as he has been it wouldn't surprise me if they put him back on the PS if another team stole him .

 

If another team did offer him a starting role could he turn it down to stay with the Bills or does he have to go through some kind of proper protocol to be able to not take a job with another team ?

 

 

[Dablitzkrieg]

You don't want Dodson starting against good teams.  There is a reason he is not a starter

[FilthyBeast]

Small sample size, but games like yesterday are probably why Edmunds walks after this season especially if he continues to play his way out of Buffalo anyway from a contract perspective.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

36 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Disguised Edmunds thread,  nicely done

even better than the Leslie special …. showing double A gap blitz and dropping into palms 

[WideNine]

41 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Disguised Edmunds thread,  nicely done

 

3d chess

 

I do think Bernard may be groomed more as a backup for Milano with his size and instincts.

 

Folks forget how often Milano gets dinged. Been knocking on wood this whole season as his play has been outstanding.

 

Helps that he finally has a DL in front of him that can keep him clean. He is not built to take on pulling OL players..