Quarterback Controversy?

[BigDingus]

Patrick Mahomes : 12/19 for 162 yards & 2 TD's = 125.3 rating

 

Case Keenum: 16/18 for 192 yards & 1 TD = 129.6 rating

 

Clearly, Case Keenum is the superior player & needs to be the starter vs the Chiefs! 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Keenum made a bad read inside the 10 when he missed McKenzie for an easy TD. He still completed it to Crowder I believe crossing the other direction. We scored soon after. 
 

Other than that he flawless.

[Einstein]

Barkley had a near identical performance. He just wasn’t given the same number of attempts.

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Keenum made a bad read inside the 10 when he missed McKenzie for an easy TD. He still completed it to Crowder I believe crossing the other direction. We scored soon after. 
 

Other than that he flawless.

 

He also threw a 1 yard pass on 3rd and 10 (but was bailed out by a Broncos penalty).

 

And a 5 yard pass in the middle of the field with only 1 timeout and only 30 seconds left in the half.

 

And on the Crowder play you mentioned above, he needlessly backpedaled into the pocket, right into the defensive ends - if it was the regular season, it likely would have been a sack.

 

And then Barkley came in and only had 1 incompletion.

[Solomon Grundy]

Trubisky hearing footsteps in Pittsburgh? 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Solomon Grundy

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Barkley had a near identical performance. He just wasn’t given the same number of attempts.

 

He also threw a 1 yard pass on 3rd and 10 (but was bailed out by a Broncos penalty).

 

And a 5 yard pass in the middle of the field with only 1 timeout and only 30 seconds left in the half.

 

And on the Crowder play you mentioned above, he needlessly backpedaled into the pocket, right into the defensive ends - if it was the regular season, it likely would have been a sack.

 

And then Barkley came in and only had 1 incompletion.

Yeah so he missed a few things. Honestly a veteran QB should light up preseason. It’s not really anything to get excited about. Vanilla coverages, should be a cakewalk for any veteran QB.

[Kirby Jackson]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Nate Peterman all over again.....

There’s one big difference. Keenum has thrown for 15,000 yards and Peterman is the worst QB in NFL history. 

[TFBillsfan]

Assume Bills only keep two QBs. Allen and Keenum. Is it a given Barkley goes to PS?

[without a drought]

All I know is the Bills had 3 incomplete passes today, they better get that **** cleaned up.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

There’s one big difference. Keenum has thrown for 15,000 yards and Peterman is the worst QB in NFL history. 

McD thought NP was better than Josh after a full preseason….

[Kirby Jackson]

17 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

McD thought NP was better than Josh after a full preseason….

He is, or at least was, statistically, the worst QB in NFL history. That’s not hyperbole. I know that some people here don’t like to hear that (not you). Peterman is the worst player to ever go under center. Keenum is a high end backup. He’s somewhere between the 20th and 40th best QB in the league. 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Kirby Jackson

[Mr. WEO]

42 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He is, or at least was, statistically, the worst QB in NFL history. That’s not hyperbole. I know that some people here don’t like to hear that (not you). Peterman is the worst player to ever go under center. Keenum is a high end backup. He’s somewhere between the 20th and 40th best QB in the league. 

 
Peterman was awful.  But like him, Keemun looked good (this week) against scrubs.  
 

There’s no chance Keenum is between 20-40….

[Kirby Jackson]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 
Peterman was awful.  But like him, Keemun looked good (this week) against scrubs.  
 

There’s no chance Keenum is between 20-40….

I hate to do this but list the 40 better than him. Keep in mind the guy has 15,000 passing yards and a 62.5% completion. There’s virtually NO CHANCE that there are 40 better currently. He is one of the top 8 backups in the league (and better than the starter in Seattle at least). I’m not convinced that he couldn’t perform as well as Baker, Tannehill, Goff, Wentz, McCorkle, Ryan, Mills, Mariota, Geno, Tua, Zach Wilson and a couple of others if he was given those jobs. He’s in the top 40. You are WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY underrating him if you honestly believe that Peterman belongs in the conversation with him. 

[Sierra Foothills]

7 hours ago, london_bills said:

People wanted him out last week 😳

 

They did. You can always count on the one week of preseason overreactions. Every year without fail.

 

4 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

He's appeared in 76 games with 64 starts.  That's 4 seasons worth of starts.  

His 2 years as a starter in Minn and Den he has a 17-13 record.

He is better than your average backup QB.

 

"Keenum replaced injured Vikings starter Sam Bradford in 2017 and went 12-4, including the playoffs. He completed 66.4 percent of his throws for 4,136 yards and 24 TDs with 10 interceptions."

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I hate to do this but list the 40 better than him. Keep in mind the guy has 15,000 passing yards and a 62.5% completion. There’s virtually NO CHANCE that there are 40 better currently. He is one of the top 8 backups in the league (and better than the starter in Seattle at least). I’m not convinced that he couldn’t perform as well as Baker, Tannehill, Goff, Wentz, McCorkle, Ryan, Mills, Mariota, Geno, Tua, Zach Wilson and a couple of others if he was given those jobs. He’s in the top 40. You are WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY underrating him if you honestly believe that Peterman belongs in the conversation with him. 

You’ve again missed the point I made about Peterman.  
 

Im not “underrating” the guy.  He’s a backup at the tail end of a backup’s career.  He’s in his 8th roster in 9 years.  We heard about how underrated Trubisky was—not before he was a Bill, not after they dumped him either.  Only while he wore the jersey.  Last week, Keenum looked cooked.  Now hes “top 40 in the league”. 

 

if you are convinced that Keenum, a guy who played 1 full season, amassed exactly 50% of his “15000 yards” in 2 of his 9 seasons in the league and who has done nothing for the past 2 years is better than 8 guys who will start this year…then all evidence points to your opinion being unique in comparison to that of every front office in the NFL.  There’s no way I can counter that. 

[Kirby Jackson]

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

You’ve again missed the point I made about Peterman.  
 

Im not “underrating” the guy.  He’s a backup at the tail end of a backup’s career.  He’s in his 8th roster in 9 years.  We heard about how underrated Trubisky was—not before he was a Bill, not after they dumped him either.  Only while he wore the jersey.  Last week, Keenum looked cooked.  Now hes “top 40 in the league”. 

 

if you are convinced that Keenum, a guy who played 1 full season, amassed exactly 50% of his “15000 yards” in 2 of his 9 seasons in the league and who has done nothing for the past 2 years is better than 8 guys who will start this year…then all evidence points to your opinion being unique in comparison to that of every front office in the NFL.  There’s no way I can counter that. 

Your point about Peterman was, “they once thought he was good because of preseason.” They were wrong. He was a scrub before they drafted him. He played horribly and that was just a wrong asssessment.
 

That’s why I asked you to list the 40 better. You are saying that he is not. I listed some guys, all between the late teens and 35, that I think he could be on par with. The opinion on Keenum has NOTHING to do with a good or bad preseason performance. It has everything to do with his resume and ability to perform at a certain level. There aren’t 40 QBs in the league that would play at his level given the exact same talent around them. If, god forbid, he had to start the whole year for the Bills they would be 10-7 or 11-6. He’d throw for 3,500+ yards and 30+ TDs. That’s obviously a function of the talent around him but I don’t think Lock/Geno would do that. 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Your point about Peterman was, “they once thought he was good because of preseason.” They were wrong. He was a scrub before they drafted him. He played horribly and that was just a wrong asssessment.
 

That’s why I asked you to list the 40 better. You are saying that he is not. I listed some guys, all between the late teens and 35, that I think he could be on par with. The opinion on Keenum has NOTHING to do with a good or bad preseason performance. It has everything to do with his resume and ability to perform at a certain level. There aren’t 40 QBs in the league that would play at his level given the exact same talent around them. If, god forbid, he had to start the whole year for the Bills they would be 10-7 or 11-6. He’d throw for 3,500+ yards and 30+ TDs. That’s obviously a function of the talent around him but I don’t think Lock/Geno would do that. 

 

 

His resume is that of a journeyman backup.  Pretty clear.   He is not on his 8th team in 9 seasons as "a function of the talent around him".  In Denver, he had Philip Lindsay, Emmanuel Sanders, DeMaryius Thomas (8 games), and Courtland Sutton--not exactly chopped liver.  He eeked out 18 TDs on 15 ints and they got rid of him. The year before that, on the Vikings,  he also had a loaded roster.  Only 22 TDs, but won 11 games.  Then they dumped him too. 

 

He would win 10-11 games for the Bills??  The Bills, with the NFL's best QB (who had "30+ TDs") won 11 games last year!

 

Anyway, you listed Mayfield, Goff, Tua, Zach Wilson, Ryan, and Jones as guys you think Keenum is as at least as good as.  Not to belabor the obvious, but if that was true, the Browns, for instance, would have kept him after singing the soon to be suspended Watson. 

 

I was high on Keenum here on this board when he came out of college, but....come on!  He's a scrub who might get a loaded team some wins.  Which is fine for the one guy on the roster that fans never want to see enter a game.  He has one decent preseason game (after a not so decent one) against guys scrambling for a roster spot---and now he's "way underrated". ...

[Don Otreply]

19 hours ago, Wagon Circler said:

This Keenum is...pretty  pretty good.

Competition with who? He’s basically Barkley with better arm strength, he a classic back up QB

[Kirby Jackson]

29 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

His resume is that of a journeyman backup.  Pretty clear.   He is not on his 8th team in 9 seasons as "a function of the talent around him".  In Denver, he had Philip Lindsay, Emmanuel Sanders, DeMaryius Thomas (8 games), and Courtland Sutton--not exactly chopped liver.  He eeked out 18 TDs on 15 ints and they got rid of him. The year before that, on the Vikings,  he also had a loaded roster.  Only 22 TDs, but won 11 games.  Then they dumped him too. 

 

He would win 10-11 games for the Bills??  The Bills, with the NFL's best QB (who had "30+ TDs") won 11 games last year!

 

Anyway, you listed Mayfield, Goff, Tua, Zach Wilson, Ryan, and Jones as guys you think Keenum is as at least as good as.  Not to belabor the obvious, but if that was true, the Browns, for instance, would have kept him after singing the soon to be suspended Watson. 

 

I was high on Keenum here on this board when he came out of college, but....come on!  He's a scrub who might get a loaded team some wins.  Which is fine for the one guy on the roster that fans never want to see enter a game.  He has one decent preseason game (after a not so decent one) against guys scrambling for a roster spot---and now he's "way underrated". ...

No I didn’t!! I said, “I’m not convinced that he couldn’t perform as well as them with the same circumstances.” That doesn’t mean, “at least as good as them.” Don’t distort words to back out of the corner. Most of those guys would be in the 20’s. He’s a top end backup (which is how you get in the top 40). You said that he “wasn’t in the top 40” so I asked you to name the 40 that are definitely better. You haven’t don’t that. You haven’t don’t that because you don’t want to start throwing names like Lock out there. List the 40 that he’s definitely better than. That was what you said. Don’t try to talk about anything else. Say things like “Drew Lock would be a better option if Allen went out.” Please be prepared to defend all 40 names on your list. Either that or retract it because you don’t actually believe it…

[Punching Bag]

19 hours ago, wppete said:

Breaking news! Araiza still averaging 82 yards a punt!!!

 

I did not watch the game but does that mean they did not trust him to punt?

[The Red King]

It's amazing to watch an obvious joke/troll post like this explode.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

No I didn’t!! I said, “I’m not convinced that he couldn’t perform as well as them with the same circumstances.” That doesn’t mean, “at least as good as them.” Don’t distort words to back out of the corner. Most of those guys would be in the 20’s. He’s a top end backup (which is how you get in the top 40). You said that he “wasn’t in the top 40” so I asked you to name the 40 that are definitely better. You haven’t don’t that. You haven’t don’t that because you don’t want to start throwing names like Lock out there. List the 40 that he’s definitely better than. That was what you said. Don’t try to talk about anything else. Say things like “Drew Lock would be a better option if Allen went out.” Please be prepared to defend all 40 names on your list. Either that or retract it because you don’t actually believe it…

 

Double negatives aside....your point has been pretty clear in each of your posts in this thread.  And suggesting he could equal Josh's win total and come up only a few TDs shy of him this year playing a full season is completely at odds with what this guy has done his whole career.  It's nuts--I see you didn't repeat it in the above post.  

 

Keenum isn't better than The guys I tossed back from your list.   Comparing him to backups (the only meaningful comparison for this guy): Better than Gino. Maybe Mills too (neither are top 40). Not sure about Lock.  Not better than Winston, Teddy B, probably not better than Trubisky, but that's a toss up. Not better than Minshew, Foles, possibly TT.

 

I'll toss a bone and say he might be #40. 

 

 

[BurpleBull]

Indeed.

 

 

Who should we part ways with midseason in return for a 4th rd. pick, #18 or #11?

 

 

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Double negatives aside....your point has been pretty clear in each of your posts in this thread.  And suggesting he could equal Josh's win total and come up only a few TDs shy of him this year playing a full season is completely at odds with what this guy has done his whole career.  It's nuts--I see you didn't repeat it in the above post.  

 

Keenum isn't better than The guys I tossed back from your list.   Comparing him to backups (the only meaningful comparison for this guy): Better than Gino. Maybe Mills too (neither are top 40). Not sure about Lock.  Not better than Winston, Teddy B, probably not better than Trubisky, but that's a toss up. Not better than Minshew, Foles, possibly TT.

 

I'll toss a bone and say he might be #40. 

 

 

Thanks

 

I think that he’s better than Teddy but not TT or Minshew. Foles is awful again. That’s all that I was getting at. That’s the tier. He is a bottom end starter or high end backup. That was the point. The Bills are in great hands with him as their number 2. They were with Trubisky too. Hopefully he never has to play either. 
 

This team is absolutely loaded. He’s a smart guy that’s a high end game manager. That’s what I want in a backup for this team. They don’t need him to be a playmaker. They need him to take what is given. I do believe that the Bills would win 10 or 11 with him. In terms of, last year, I don’t expect them to be 0-6 in one score games and everything else a double-digit win. That was a strange year. I think that they win 13 or 14 this year. 

3 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

Indeed.

 

 

Who should we part ways with midseason in return for a 4th rd. pick, #18 or #11?

 

 

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

11 will make it to the practice squad. I’m sure that was what he was told before coming back. He’s Josh’s buddy and a sharp guy. He’s the new Davis Webb.

[BillsShredder83]

19 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

have McD call 3 bad plays so he can punt deep for us 😆 

sarcasm mate 

Triple flea flicker! Who would expect that, bound to hit on one of em!!!

[JESSEFEFFER]

14 hours ago, TFBillsfan said:

Assume Bills only keep two QBs. Allen and Keenum. Is it a given Barkley goes to PS?

There was no logical reason to bring Barkley back other than they want him in their QB room as the Davis Webb replacement.  A shocker if it doesn't happen that way.

[BuffaloFan68]

Do we start Barkley for the final preseason game? 
Go Bills!!!!!

[Doc]

29 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Double negatives aside....your point has been pretty clear in each of your posts in this thread.  And suggesting he could equal Josh's win total and come up only a few TDs shy of him this year playing a full season is completely at odds with what this guy has done his whole career.  It's nuts--I see you didn't repeat it in the above post.  

 

Keenum isn't better than The guys I tossed back from your list.   Comparing him to backups (the only meaningful comparison for this guy): Better than Gino. Maybe Mills too (neither are top 40). Not sure about Lock.  Not better than Winston, Teddy B, probably not better than Trubisky, but that's a toss up. Not better than Minshew, Foles, possibly TT.

 

I'll toss a bone and say he might be #40.

 

The only ones from the ones mentioned above he's not better than are Minshew and Teddy B (Winston, Trubisky and TT will be the starters).  He's also making several million less than most of those guys.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Doc

[ddaryl]

It really wasn't a competition... Keenum was penciled in as a #2.. Week 1 in preseason was the only reason there was some debate.

 

Keenum had one thing to remove the doubts about being #2, which he did agsint Denver...

 

Barkley runs the scout team and is valuable in the film room 

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The only ones from the ones mentioned above he's not better than are Minshew and Teddy B (Winston, Trubisky and TT will be the starters).  He's also making several million less than most of those guys.

 

 

All 5 are better than Keenum at this point.  The price is irrelevant to this discussion. 

[Heitz]

20 hours ago, Wagon Circler said:

This Keenum is...pretty  pretty good.

 

"Hear me out, we'll REST Josh for the first few games of the year, Keenum will carry us!  Then during the playoff run, we bust out Josh and roll!" - some Bills fan somewhere, I assume.  

 

 

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

All 5 are better than Keenum at this point.  The price is irrelevant to this discussion. 

 

That's what I said (the discussion was about backups) and the backups to the 3 starters are worse.  And price absolutely makes a difference.  The Bills could have spent twice as much to get Teddy B (Minshew was under contract to the Eagles), but for what?  Not to mention there's a chance Teddy B could be the Dols' eventual starter.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Doc