Primetime thinks he’s too good for the Hall of Fame

[BillsPride12]

3 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

I agree.  All sports seem to have gotten very loose with hall of fame honors.  I would like to see another layer for the true 'greats'

 

Its the same thing with jersey retirements.  Everyone wants quick gratification.  Teams want something to market. Paul ONeill is having his jersey retired as a Yankee.   Ryan Miller's number should be nowhere near retirement-echelon

I agree.  I love the Sabres but there's no way an organization that has lacked as much success as they have should have as many jerseys retired as they do.  Hasek?  Absolutely deserving.  RJ?  100% but they never should've retired LaFontaine's number and I wasn't thrilled when they announced Miller going up in the rafters especially since they just raised the RJ banner last year.  That should be a truly elite accolade that occurs very seldomly 

[Chicken Boo]

21 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I was speaking with an NFL Alumni earlier this morning. He said none of the guys this year belong in the hall. He mentioned Terrell Davis as another guy who had a questionable resume. 

 

People always question Terrell Davis but never Gale Sayers.

 

Davis is a 2-time Super Bowl Champ (and came up BIG in both) and a large part of the reason Elway has any rings at all.  He's a 3-time first team all pro, 1998 League MVP, made the 90s all decade team, has a career average of 4.6 ypc...

 

Yes, his career was cut short by injury, but he was undoubtedly an elite talent that played like it on the field and under the brightest lights. 

[Solomon Grundy]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I just meant he was one of the best of his era, although his career was short.  The other guys were not the best of their era at their positions.  But, I also thought Boselli played more like 7 years and didnt realize it was only 5.  So now that I have seen that, I would say none of the ones who got in should have made it and there are 5 better choices on the semifinalist list than these 5 guys.  

I just think that Richmond Webb and Bruce Armstrong had better careers than Boselli. They battled Bruce Smith to some classic matchups

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

People always question Terrell Davis but never Gale Sayers.

 

Davis is a 2-time Super Bowl Champ (and came up BIG in both) and a large part of the reason Elway has any rings at all.  He's a 3-time first team all pro, 1998 League MVP, made the 90s all decade team, has a career average of 4.6 ypc...

 

Yes, his career was cut short by injury, but he was undoubtedly an elite talent that played like it on the field and under the brightest lights. 

 

The argument is under Shanahan they took UDFAs and turned them into 1000 yard rushers so it was scheme more than player.

 

Davis was a very good player but if he is in Sterling Sharpe should have been in way before. Sharpe is far more elite talent wise than Davis was.

7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I just meant he was one of the best of his era, although his career was short.  The other guys were not the best of their era at their positions.  But, I also thought Boselli played more like 7 years and didnt realize it was only 5.  So now that I have seen that, I would say none of the ones who got in should have made it and there are 5 better choices on the semifinalist list than these 5 guys.  

 

Sterling Sharpe should be in...it is a travesty these dudes with shortened careers make it in while he is still waiting.

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

I agree.  All sports seem to have gotten very loose with hall of fame honors.  I would like to see another layer for the true 'greats'

 

Its the same thing with jersey retirements.  Everyone wants quick gratification.  Teams want something to market. Paul ONeill is having his jersey retired as a Yankee.   Ryan Miller's number should be nowhere near retirement-echelon

 

 

Quick??  He retired 21 years ago lol

 

He's a 5 time All Star, has 5 Yankee rings and is in Monument Park.  What's wrong with them retiring his number??

[Chicken Boo]

53 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

The argument is under Shanahan they took UDFAs and turned them into 1000 yard rushers so it was scheme more than player.

 

Davis was a very good player but if he is in Sterling Sharpe should have been in way before. Sharpe is far more elite talent wise than Davis was.

 

I respectfully disagree.  It's a true shame what happened to Sharpe because he definitely had Hall of Fame talent, but carrying your team to back to back Super Bowl victories and winning league MVP isn't done by just any Joe Schmo.  Terrell Davis was a rare breed of athleticism, *speed and power at the RB position.  

Edited August 16, 2022 by Chicken Boo

[Mikie2times]

2 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

People always question Terrell Davis but never Gale Sayers.

 

Davis is a 2-time Super Bowl Champ (and came up BIG in both) and a large part of the reason Elway has any rings at all.  He's a 3-time first team all pro, 1998 League MVP, made the 90s all decade team, has a career average of 4.6 ypc...

 

Yes, his career was cut short by injury, but he was undoubtedly an elite talent that played like it on the field and under the brightest lights. 

Only a few backs in the history of this game from the pre 1970's could play in this era. Gale Sayers was likely one of them. Nobody really ran with his acceleration or burst at the time. Next closest I can recall is Lenny Moore, but Sayers was just flat out better. If injuries didn't crush his career he would be considered one of the greatest RB's of all time (if you want to make an argument on this point, understood, plenty of stars had a career end early and did not get the benefit Sayers did).  

[ToGoGo]

I won't speak for Deion, but I follow the NHL Hall of Fame fairly closely and a diluted inductee fields have been a problem for over a decade now.

 

The problem is that the Hall of Fames feel pressure every year to induct the maximum number of eligible players. Some years this works, but most years there are 1 or 2 players that are borderline worthy that get in. In the NHL, the recent notorious ones are Glen Anderson, Joe Niewendyk, and Dick Duff. It's only a matter of time before players like Alex Mogilny make it. 

 

The best move is to do what the MLB does and become very strict. The downside is that some years you get 0 inductees. But that makes the Hall of Fame that much more valuable. 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I respectfully disagree.  It's a true shame what happened to Sharpe because he definitely had Hall of Fame talent, but carrying your team to back to back Super Bowl victories and winning league MVP isn't done by just any Joe Schmo.  Terrell Davis was a rare breed of athleticism, *speed and power at the RB position.  

 

Well, the PFR HOF Monitor agrees with you as Terrell Davis is at a little over 100 which is 10th amongst all RBs 

 

His playoff numbers are amazing...5.6 YPC over 8 games.

 

 

[Dan]

3 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

I won't speak for Deion, but I follow the NHL Hall of Fame fairly closely and a diluted inductee fields have been a problem for over a decade now.

 

The problem is that the Hall of Fames feel pressure every year to induct the maximum number of eligible players. Some years this works, but most years there are 1 or 2 players that are borderline worthy that get in. In the NHL, the recent notorious ones are Glen Anderson, Joe Niewendyk, and Dick Duff. It's only a matter of time before players like Alex Mogilny make it. 

 

The best move is to do what the MLB does and become very strict. The downside is that some years you get 0 inductees. But that makes the Hall of Fame that much more valuable. 

Exactly 

[GunnerBill]

On 8/15/2022 at 4:19 AM, Ethan in Portland said:

As for the watered down issue, I tend to agree but it is not a new phenomenon.  Lynn Swann and John Stallworth were both good players on an amazing dynasty. Neither should in the HOF. I can name several more but I will highlight Levy and Kurt Warner. Great stories but not HOF worthy.

Eli will make the HOF as a 2 time SB winner with a ton of yards. But he only made 4 ProBowls in 16 years. Was he even a top 5 QB when he played? I'd argue in no particular order Brady, Peyton, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Brees, Ryan, early Wilson and late Favre are all better QBs. Obviously Eli's career doesn't overlap perfectly with all these QBs but I'd take every one except Ryan over Eli.

 

I disagree on Kurt Warner. Okay, the middle of his career was very meh, but the start and the end he revitalised two moribund franchises and did so smashing record after record. Took his teams to the Superbowl 3 times, winning one and losing two to basically the final play of the game. He was the first person to throw 40 touchdowns in the regular season and win the Superbowl in the same year. He did it in 1999. It took 21 years for Tom Brady to match it. I agree the HoF is watered down, once you have an arbitrary number of guys you will elect each year it is bound to get that way, but I'd put Kurt Warner in the HoF even off the highest bar.  Sure he only had 6 years of top end QB stats in his career. But it isn't the Hall of Stats. It is the Hall of Fame.

10 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Well, the PFR HOF Monitor agrees with you as Terrell Davis is at a little over 100 which is 10th amongst all RBs 

 

His playoff numbers are amazing...5.6 YPC over 8 games.

 

I have never looked at that PFR HOF monitor before, thanks @Big Turk. Interestingly their lowest graded QB among current HOFers is our very own Jim Kelly. 

[Gugny]

11 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Well, the PFR HOF Monitor agrees with you as Terrell Davis is at a little over 100 which is 10th amongst all RBs 

 

His playoff numbers are amazing...5.6 YPC over 8 games.

 

 

 

That Denver O-Line is a great example of an entire unit being eligible for the HOF.

 

Every RB they put behind that line had great numbers.

[Bob in STL]

I thought Deion was a bit overrated.  He talks too much.  
 

No one talks about Mel Renfro.   He was a great CB that was equally good on offense and as a return man.    He was a star RB and played both ways coming out of college.  

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

That Denver O-Line is a great example of an entire unit being eligible for the HOF.

 

Every RB they put behind that line had great numbers.

 

It is really a case of an assistant coach who should, posthumously, go into the HoF. Alex Gibbs was one of the best oline coaches to ever do it and is the true grandfather of the stretch zone scheme we see proliferating the NFL today. It looks like Mike Shanahan is going to get in. I know they have cut HoF speeches right down these days but if he makes it I would be disappointed if he didn't give a well deserved mention to Gibbs. 

[corta765]

His point makes a lot of sense and Peter King spoke of this in his column this week. The hall use to be for true greats or players who defined their spot. I was fine with Terrell Davis making it in because he was a true great that was only limited by injuries. That is not weakening the hall to me, that is including someone who deserves it that had a crappy bit of luck. Per Peter King in the 1970s 43 men were enshrined, 1980s 45, in the last 16 months 36 new enshrined members. Some of this was because the Centennial class was suppose to bring in a lot of older type guys but only 4 of the 15 members were from the first 40 years. Figure coaches like Dick Vermil and Bill Cowher both made it in with a SB win and 120 wins. To me neither of them were greats, they were really good with their moments.

 

To me HOF is suppose to be greats and societies switch to win or nothing has kind of caused this watered down effect. Pete Carrol and Mike McCarthy both have rings and over a 120+ wins and in no way should either see the hall of fame. It is why I am not for Eli Manning getting into the hall of fame as he was mostly an above average QB with two big moments. He was never one of the top 5 QBs consistently during his time which should be standard held for entering.

[Charles Romes]

What I loved about Warner’s game is that he always attacked the deep field first. I didn’t think I’d see a quarterback with that much disdain for the underneath easy passes until 17 rolled into town. 

[DrDawkinstein]

I'll just take this opportunity to say two things:

 

1. I agree with Deion.

2. RYAN FITZPATRICK FOR HOF!

[machine gun kelly]

On 8/14/2022 at 7:44 PM, Rochesterfan said:

I agree it is watered down, but what a scummy thing to say for a HOFer - especially with the timing of the inductions.

 

Deion was all about 1 person and quite frankly - I rather see him removed from the Hall than given any credence. 
 

I wish the rest of the HOFers told him to Suck It and booted his sorry butt out.  He does not deserve the honor with that attitude.

 

 

 

 

My rotten Chester friend, if you believe that, you could say the same about Bruuuce, as he absconded the idea of Boselli being placed in the HOF.  I agree with Deon it has been watered down, but to publically say it is too much.  I don’t think Bruce should’ve said what he did on insta either.  Show some class.

 

BTW, you know I’m just kidding with you.  I almost always like you’re posts.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, machine gun kelly said:

My rotten Chester friend, if you believe that, you could say the same about Bruuuce, as he absconded the idea of Boselli being placed in the HOF.  I agree with Deon it has been watered down, but to publically say it is too much.  I don’t think Bruce should’ve said what he did on insta either.  Show some class.

 

BTW, you know I’m just kidding with you.  I almost always like you’re posts.

 

That's not completely true. Bruce's beef was with all the Boselli Stans online who kept banging on one game instead of his career. Bruce has been otherwise completely supportive of Boselli getting the nod.

[machine gun kelly]

55 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is really a case of an assistant coach who should, posthumously, go into the HoF. Alex Gibbs was one of the best oline coaches to ever do it and is the true grandfather of the stretch zone scheme we see proliferating the NFL today. It looks like Mike Shanahan is going to get in. I know they have cut HoF speeches right down these days but if he makes it I would be disappointed if he didn't give a well deserved mention to Gibbs. 

As much as I liked Coach Vermeil as a person, he wasn’t worth a yellow jacket. I can see Shanahan though as he was a winner.  There are others that to me are ahead of Vermiel.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, machine gun kelly said:

As much as I liked Coach Vermeil as a person, he wasn’t worth a yellow jacket. I can see Shanahan though as he was a winner.  There are others that to me are ahead of Vermiel.

 

Yea agree. I do think it is a shame that top assistants like Gibbs don't make it. Similarly to me, Dick LeBeau is a hall of fame coach. Not for what he did as a Head Coach, which was underwhelming, obviously, but for his work as a DC. He was an innovator who pioneered the zone blitz. Gibbs pioneered the stretch zone run scheme. Those innovators should be adequately recognised IMO. 

[Rochesterfan]

7 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

My rotten Chester friend, if you believe that, you could say the same about Bruuuce, as he absconded the idea of Boselli being placed in the HOF.  I agree with Deon it has been watered down, but to publically say it is too much.  I don’t think Bruce should’ve said what he did on insta either.  Show some class.

 

BTW, you know I’m just kidding with you.  I almost always like you’re posts.

 

I agree, but what Bruce said was that basically Tony was using 1 game against a HOF DE to get in.  Bruce felt like Tony and his team were belittling Bruce’s accomplishments by saying if Bruce was in the HOF and Tony stoned him - Tony deserves to go in.

 

I do agree that Bruce should have kept his mouth shut, but I get what Bruce was saying - it was that if Tony gets in - all of his accomplishments have to get him in.

 

Deion believes he is better than most of the HOFs and deserves special recognition and that I can not get behind.  
 

I think the Hall has let in way to many people also - especially by having a set number each year, but there is a time and place to have that discussion and via the media right after inductions are held is not the time nor the place.

 

Some of these players and/or their families have been waiting a lifetime for the honor and for Deion to feel he deserves his own area because he was better and he no longer thinks the HOF is an honor just makes me sick.  
 

Just my 2 cents.

[machine gun kelly]

21 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I agree, but what Bruce said was that basically Tony was using 1 game against a HOF DE to get in.  Bruce felt like Tony and his team were belittling Bruce’s accomplishments by saying if Bruce was in the HOF and Tony stoned him - Tony deserves to go in.

 

I do agree that Bruce should have kept his mouth shut, but I get what Bruce was saying - it was that if Tony gets in - all of his accomplishments have to get him in.

 

Deion believes he is better than most of the HOFs and deserves special recognition and that I can not get behind.  
 

I think the Hall has let in way to many people also - especially by having a set number each year, but there is a time and place to have that discussion and via the media right after inductions are held is not the time nor the place.

 

Some of these players and/or their families have been waiting a lifetime for the honor and for Deion to feel he deserves his own area because he was better and he no longer thinks the HOF is an honor just makes me sick.  
 

Just my 2 cents.

All kidding aside, don’t you think the Hall has been a little watered down?  There are some like Curtis Martin I don’t think deserves to be in as Joes extra point show was about yesterday at least the portion I listened to as the 2022 class.

 

There is no, and I mean NO excuse for Deon’s comments.  He’s a neverending blowhard.  When he publicly was pissed about not being called Coach in one press coverage was ridiculous.

[Rochesterfan]

Just now, machine gun kelly said:

All kidding aside, don’t you think the Hall has been a little watered down?  There are some like Curtis Martin I don’t think deserves to be in as Joes extra point show was about yesterday at least the portion I listened to as the 2022 class.

 

There is no, and I mean NO excuse for Deon’s comments.  He’s a neverending blowhard.  When he publicly was pissed about not being called Coach in one press coverage was ridiculous.

 

Yes - I totally agree with that and have said that throughout.   Especially with the weird large group they did last year. 
 

They have put to many weird groupings in and missed out on others and what Deion said is not wrong - just poorly said and very poorly timed.

 

I just look at the HOF as a wonderful museum of the history of the league and if there are some guys that squeak in because they played 16 years to amass huge numbers or guys that played 7 years, but were instrumental in winning multiple championships - I am ok to have them in.  
 

Having been several times - there are some busts and accomplishments that as a family we sit and look at and talk about more and some we basically ignore and that is ok.  There may be a different family visiting to whom that player we ignored is a big part of their fandom and being in the HOF means something.

 

Having gone years ago to see Andre put into the hall - that entire experience and weekend is wonderful and I wish as many of these guys that put in the work and did incredible things could get in - it does not diminish the accomplishments of others - it allows fans of different generations to enjoy the experience.

 

I think the Football and Hockey HOFs are both watered down and diluted, but I love visiting both of them to see the love and joy it brings.  The Baseball HOF is the least watered down with some all-time historic players not getting in because of actions they may or may not have done and it is the least exciting HOF that I visited.  It feels like a very old museum with nothing new to offer.  Very few players in the hall were ever seen by my kids and if they were it was right at the end.  It needs new blood and life to grow and bring in a new generation, but the purists want it taint free - so few get in.

[Chicken Boo]

26 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

All kidding aside, don’t you think the Hall has been a little watered down?  There are some like Curtis Martin I don’t think deserves to be in as Joes extra point show was about yesterday at least the portion I listened to as the 2022 class.

 

There is no, and I mean NO excuse for Deon’s comments.  He’s a neverending blowhard.  When he publicly was pissed about not being called Coach in one press coverage was ridiculous.

 

No Curtis Martin? 

 

For consistency, productivity and longevity you have to put him in.  He was quiet, reserved, not overly dynamic, but a damn good football player.  

 

Maybe he should have had a longer wait (?), but 10 straight 1,000 yard seasons, over 17,000 yards from scrimmage and *100 TDs would get anybody in.

 

Now, Frank Gore is going to be a hot debate in 5 years.  I don't think he's a Hall guy, but there's something to be said for longevity, especially at the RB position.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Chicken Boo

[Beast]

Deion Sanders wanting to be reminded how good he was. Yes, Deion, you were great. Now.....

 

Get over yourself.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Beast

[Gugny]

9 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

Now, Frank Gore is going to be a hot debate in 5 years.  I don't think he's a Hall guy, but there's something to be said for longevity, especially at the RB position.

 

Frank Gore can kiss Canton goodbye if he's convicted on these domestic violence charges.

 

[Chicken Boo]

7 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Frank Gore can kiss Canton goodbye if he's convicted on these domestic violence charges.

 

 

I missed that headline.  

[mjt328]

Deion has a massive ago, and really shouldn't be the one saying it.  

But... sadly he is correct.

 

I've been watching the NFL since the late 1980s.  Every year there are coaches and players inducted who I've never even heard of.

Guys should have about 10 years of eligibility, post retirement.  If you can't make it by that point, then you simply don't deserve it.

 

The other problem is the "minimum" number of inductions each year.  The 2022 class we just saw was particularly weak.

I watched the careers of Tony Boselli, Bryant Young, Sam Mills, Leroy Butler and Richard Seymour.  All were pretty good players.  None stood out to me as Hall of Famers, and I was honestly shocked to see them all on the list.  Dick Vermeil as a coach was almost embarrassing.  One Super Bowl win, and barely over .500 in his entire coaching career.

 

 

[mjt328]

7 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

No Curtis Martin? 

For consistency, productivity and longevity you have to put him in.  He was quiet, reserved, not overly dynamic, but a damn good football player.  

Maybe he should have had a longer wait (?), but 10 straight 1,000 yard seasons, over 17,000 yards from scrimmage and *100 TDs would get anybody in.

Now, Frank Gore is going to be a hot debate in 5 years.  I don't think he's a Hall guy, but there's something to be said for longevity, especially at the RB position.

 

There wasn't a single point during Curtis Martin's career, where I considered him one of the top RBs in the NFL.

He played his entire career for the rival Patriots and Jets.  Yet he was never someone (as a Bills fan) that I worried about us playing.  Never.  

 

I worry about Derrick Henry right now.  I worry about Jonathan Taylor right now.  I never worried about Curtis Martin.

 

It wasn't until his career was pretty much over, and they started talking about the stats he accumulated (yards and touchdowns).  That was the first time I realized Martin was going to get consideration as a Hall of Famer.  It totally caught me off guard.  A guy shouldn't be a Hall of Famer based purely on stats.  Especially when they are accumulated over an abnormally long career.  

 

The exact same logic goes for Frank Gore.

 

[BillsPride12]

I truly think the people that say Sterling Sharpe doesn't belong in the Hall never watched him play...probably sounds blasphemous now but in his playing days Sterling was the only other receiver on Jerry Rice's level.

 

What Shannon Sharpe said at his induction wasn't just for show

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

There wasn't a single point during Curtis Martin's career, where I considered him one of the top RBs in the NFL.

He played his entire career for the rival Patriots and Jets.  Yet he was never someone (as a Bills fan) that I worried about us playing.  Never.  

 

I worry about Derrick Henry right now.  I worry about Jonathan Taylor right now.  I never worried about Curtis Martin.

 

It wasn't until his career was pretty much over, and they started talking about the stats he accumulated (yards and touchdowns).  That was the first time I realized Martin was going to get consideration as a Hall of Famer.  It totally caught me off guard.  A guy shouldn't be a Hall of Famer based purely on stats.  Especially when they are accumulated over an abnormally long career.  

 

The exact same logic goes for Frank Gore.

 

 

This is the exact issue - you don’t want people in strictly based on stats accumulated over a long career.

 

Others don’t want guys that played 6 years, but at a phenomenal level because they did not do it enough.

 

I heard on the radio a guy saying we should use ProBowl and All Pro designations to get entry - a point system and you accumulate so many then it is automatic.

 

The problem is there is no right answer for everyone.  There are guys like Martin that do something amazing by hitting milestone after milestone and yes it is done over a long career, but that should be recognized.

 

Yes a guy like Terrell Davis/Gayle Sayers had short careers, but they lead their team to championships and were elite for a brief flash.

 

There are lots of reasons guys should and should not get in - one of the most frustrating was when there were several worthy(?) WRs waiting to get in and they kept splitting each others vote and it took several years to break the log jam and get them in.  The voters deciding that only 1 WR at a time should get in, but letting a less worthy player at a different position in.

 

I don’t really care about the politics and the why - I enjoy the HOF even if it is watered down and it is an honor no matter how many people get in.  
 

 

[Chicken Boo]

2 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

There wasn't a single point during Curtis Martin's career, where I considered him one of the top RBs in the NFL.

He played his entire career for the rival Patriots and Jets.  Yet he was never someone (as a Bills fan) that I worried about us playing.  Never.  

 

I worry about Derrick Henry right now.  I worry about Jonathan Taylor right now.  I never worried about Curtis Martin.

 

It wasn't until his career was pretty much over, and they started talking about the stats he accumulated (yards and touchdowns).  That was the first time I realized Martin was going to get consideration as a Hall of Famer.  It totally caught me off guard.  A guy shouldn't be a Hall of Famer based purely on stats.  Especially when they are accumulated over an abnormally long career.  

 

The exact same logic goes for Frank Gore.

 

 

I agree with the accumulation of stats argument, but Curtis didn't hang around years after his prime to do it. 

 

10 of his 11 seasons were 1,000 seasons.  He went for 1,200 or more 7 of those 10.  There were no frills about him, although he cut and slashed well.  He was just fundamentally sound and effective. 

[mjt328]

11 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

I agree with the accumulation of stats argument, but Curtis didn't hang around years after his prime to do it. 

 

10 of his 11 seasons were 1,000 seasons.  He went for 1,200 or more 7 of those 10.  There were no frills about him, although he cut and slashed well.  He was just fundamentally sound and effective. 

 

Sure.  But GOOD for a long-time, is not the same as GREAT.

 

In my opinion, the Hall of Fame should be reserved for the "Best of the Best."

The guys other players and coaches are afraid to play against.  The guys who dominate on a regular basis.

 

Barry Sanders was a Hall of Famer.  Emmitt Smith was a Hall of Famer.  Thurman Thomas was a Hall of Famer.  LaDainian Tomlinson was a Hall of Famer.  I saw Curtis Martin's entire career, and wouldn't put him anywhere near that conversation.  Compared to current NFL backs, he was probably on the same level as someone like Nick Chubb or Dalvin Cook would be today.  He just managed to stay healthy, and do it for a longer time (when most RBs would start declining around 7-8 years).

 

The Pro-Bowl is for good players.  Having a bust in the Hall of Fame should be reserved for legends.

 

[mjt328]

13 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

This is the exact issue - you don’t want people in strictly based on stats accumulated over a long career.

 

Others don’t want guys that played 6 years, but at a phenomenal level because they did not do it enough.

 

I heard on the radio a guy saying we should use ProBowl and All Pro designations to get entry - a point system and you accumulate so many then it is automatic.

 

The problem is there is no right answer for everyone.  There are guys like Martin that do something amazing by hitting milestone after milestone and yes it is done over a long career, but that should be recognized.

 

Yes a guy like Terrell Davis/Gayle Sayers had short careers, but they lead their team to championships and were elite for a brief flash.

 

There are lots of reasons guys should and should not get in - one of the most frustrating was when there were several worthy(?) WRs waiting to get in and they kept splitting each others vote and it took several years to break the log jam and get them in.  The voters deciding that only 1 WR at a time should get in, but letting a less worthy player at a different position in.

 

I don’t really care about the politics and the why - I enjoy the HOF even if it is watered down and it is an honor no matter how many people get in.  
 

 

 

That is the problem.  

Too many HOF voters are looking for numerical milestones, instead of just looking at the player himself. 

 

Focus too much on stats and you get players like Frank Gore, who were never GREAT... just good for a really long time.

Focus too much on Super Bowls and you get players like Richard Seymour... who pretty much just gets in, because he played for the Patriots.

 

The Pro-Bowl is basically a popularity contest, which is further watered-down because half the players decide not to play... forcing them to bring in alternates.  Mac Jones made it this year, for crying out loud.  Tyrod Taylor was an alternate in 2015.

 

I do understand the problem with guys having short careers, and that's where some players can be questionable.  I never saw Gale Sayers play, but I did watch Terrell Davis.  He was an absolute monster during his first 4 years, but was never the same after his injuries.  Personally I think his career was a little TOO short, but I can see why some feel differently.

 

The WR log jam from a few years ago was stupid.  But at the end of the day, I think a bunch of borderline players ended up sneaking in.  I'll admit I wanted to see Andre Reed for selfish reasons (as a Bills fan), but I'm not absolutely certain he belongs.  He is just as deserving as Tim Brown, Chris Carter, Art Monk, etc... but I'm not really sure those guys were HOF guys either.  I've often stated that Eric Moulds is the best Bills receiver of All-Time, and I know I'm not the only fan who feels that way.

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

49 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

Sure.  But GOOD for a long-time, is not the same as GREAT.

 

In my opinion, the Hall of Fame should be reserved for the "Best of the Best."

The guys other players and coaches are afraid to play against.  The guys who dominate on a regular basis.

 

Barry Sanders was a Hall of Famer.  Emmitt Smith was a Hall of Famer.  Thurman Thomas was a Hall of Famer.  LaDainian Tomlinson was a Hall of Famer.  I saw Curtis Martin's entire career, and wouldn't put him anywhere near that conversation.  Compared to current NFL backs, he was probably on the same level as someone like Nick Chubb or Dalvin Cook would be today.  He just managed to stay healthy, and do it for a longer time (when most RBs would start declining around 7-8 years).

 

The Pro-Bowl is for good players.  Having a bust in the Hall of Fame should be reserved for legends.

 

 

 

Fair enough.  That's very strict criteria and I completely understand where you're coming from.  I wouldn't have a problem if this were the standard, but the NFL is long past that point.  

 

For the record, I believe Dalvin Cook is WAY more dynamic than Martin or Chubb.  I'm actually looking forward to seeing him in this revamped Minnesota offense.  It seems like Kevin O'Connell will be using Dalvin to his fullest potential as an all purpose guy.  If you could turn off injuries like in Madden, Dalvin Cook would widely be considered the best back in football.  I'm extremely high on him.  5 years in the league and he has a 4.7 ypc average for his career and is an above average pass catcher at the position.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Chicken Boo

[stuvian]

As perhaps the greatest two sport athlete ever, Deion is in a class by himself. But he's right about the HOF being too easy. After all Jerry Jones is in. What does that tell you?