Lance Zierlein "I have CB Andrew Booth slipping out of the 1st round"

[Mc1320]

Trade up for Stingley if he doesn’t go in the Top 10.

 

If we use all of our current draft picks, all of them will not make roster and practice squad.

[Protocal69]

To me Booth reminds me of former Bills CB Aaron Williams in terms of size and physical play. At the end the day Aaron was moved to Safety. I wonder if Booth would have produce a slow 40 time like Aaron Williams (4.55) if he would have ran it during the NFL scouting combine 

[NewEra]

8 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

....hey wierder things have happened....

You ain’t lying.  

[intimidatortj]

1 hour ago, Mc1320 said:

Trade up for Stingley if he doesn’t go in the Top 10.

 

If we use all of our current draft picks, all of them will not make roster and practice squad.

When Beane moved up to get Tremaine Edmunds, we moved from 22 to 16.   We had to give Baltimore our 65th pick.   

So if you want to move up from 25 to say around 12, it is going to cost you...a lot.   And no one wants our 6th and 7th round picks.  They are fairly worthless in first round trades.

 

Not impossible to move up that high, but normally it is reserved for a QB or a Julio Jones.

[BigAl2526]

I saw an interesting mock draft today.  It was from a website named Audacity, which may tell you something.  Anyway, it had Buffalo picking Andrew Booth at 25, a choice many of us would be pretty content with.  What made it interesting was Trayvon Walker slipping completely out of the first round.  As most draft watchers know, Walker killed the combine, running a 4.5 40 as a 6'5"  272 defensive end.  Most mocks now have him going in the top 10.  A number of them have him going top 5, and I've even seen one projecting him as the #1 overall pick.  He didn't have quite the production at Georgia that you might expect from those crazy elite combine numbers, but many observers think that was due more to the fact that Georgia had elite players all across their defensive front, and there were only so many opportunities Walker had to rack up stats.  

 

So, in the unlikely event that Trayvon Walker is available at #25, would you forego a nice (relatively) safe pick like Andrew Booth at a position of need to take a guy who might be a top 5 player in the draft?  

[Putin]

13 hours ago, H2o said:

Pass on McDuffie. We already have a slot CB in Taron Johnson. I'd rather have Gordon. Agreed that I trust Beane/McDermott in their calls on DB's though. 

I’m not even sure that a CB will our pick at 25 or even at 57 , for all we know there could be one that they like in rounds 3-4 , I’m not sure that McD is looking for another Tre White maybe just another more athletic  Levi Wallace type that could be there in the later rounds , 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Putin

[Mc1320]

3 hours ago, intimidatortj said:

When Beane moved up to get Tremaine Edmunds, we moved from 22 to 16.   We had to give Baltimore our 65th pick.   

So if you want to move up from 25 to say around 12, it is going to cost you...a lot.   And no one wants our 6th and 7th round picks.  They are fairly worthless in first round trades.

 

Not impossible to move up that high, but normally it is reserved for a QB or a Julio Jones.

We wasted a year in our Super Bowl window last year while the Rams said “F those picks” and won the whole thing.  
 

Since CB is the only glaring weakness we have, if you can get a 1st rounder under control for 5 years at a prime position with Tre coming of a significant injury, do it regardless if it costs you a 2nd rounder or any other picks this year.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

I saw an interesting mock draft today.  It was from a website named Audacity, which may tell you something.  Anyway, it had Buffalo picking Andrew Booth at 25, a choice many of us would be pretty content with.  What made it interesting was Trayvon Walker slipping completely out of the first round.  As most draft watchers know, Walker killed the combine, running a 4.5 40 as a 6'5"  272 defensive end.  Most mocks now have him going in the top 10.  A number of them have him going top 5, and I've even seen one projecting him as the #1 overall pick.  He didn't have quite the production at Georgia that you might expect from those crazy elite combine numbers, but many observers think that was due more to the fact that Georgia had elite players all across their defensive front, and there were only so many opportunities Walker had to rack up stats.  

 

So, in the unlikely event that Trayvon Walker is available at #25, would you forego a nice (relatively) safe pick like Andrew Booth at a position of need to take a guy who might be a top 5 player in the draft?  

 

No. 

[intimidatortj]

9 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

I saw an interesting mock draft today.  It was from a website named Audacity, which may tell you something.  Anyway, it had Buffalo picking Andrew Booth at 25, a choice many of us would be pretty content with.  What made it interesting was Trayvon Walker slipping completely out of the first round.  As most draft watchers know, Walker killed the combine, running a 4.5 40 as a 6'5"  272 defensive end.  Most mocks now have him going in the top 10.  A number of them have him going top 5, and I've even seen one projecting him as the #1 overall pick.  He didn't have quite the production at Georgia that you might expect from those crazy elite combine numbers, but many observers think that was due more to the fact that Georgia had elite players all across their defensive front, and there were only so many opportunities Walker had to rack up stats.  

 

So, in the unlikely event that Trayvon Walker is available at #25, would you forego a nice (relatively) safe pick like Andrew Booth at a position of need to take a guy who might be a top 5 player in the draft?  

 

I think Trayvon Walker could be the #1 overall pick.

 

....let me know how I did in two weeks....

[Mr. WEO]

22 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

He’s a lock to Bills at 25 if he’s there - JMO. I do not see him getting out of the 1st round due to injury. He’s a premium position with 🔥film and pedigree 

 

22 hours ago, intimidatortj said:

 

Lance Zierlein over the last decade has been one of the most accurate Mock Drafters.   (No one is even close to 100%....but he is better than most)

 

He has Sauce Gardner at #4
Stingley at #9
and Trent McDuffie at #15

 

I think it is a dream to think we can come close to any of those 3 guys.     So it might come down to Elam, Booth and Kyler Gordon.

 

Wait, there's another 5 page thread saying it could (and Should?) be Daxton Hill...

[gonzo1105]

9 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

I saw an interesting mock draft today.  It was from a website named Audacity, which may tell you something.  Anyway, it had Buffalo picking Andrew Booth at 25, a choice many of us would be pretty content with.  What made it interesting was Trayvon Walker slipping completely out of the first round.  As most draft watchers know, Walker killed the combine, running a 4.5 40 as a 6'5"  272 defensive end.  Most mocks now have him going in the top 10.  A number of them have him going top 5, and I've even seen one projecting him as the #1 overall pick.  He didn't have quite the production at Georgia that you might expect from those crazy elite combine numbers, but many observers think that was due more to the fact that Georgia had elite players all across their defensive front, and there were only so many opportunities Walker had to rack up stats.  

 

So, in the unlikely event that Trayvon Walker is available at #25, would you forego a nice (relatively) safe pick like Andrew Booth at a position of need to take a guy who might be a top 5 player in the draft?  

Walker right now is the hot name going # 1 so I would question the validity of a mock that has Walker not in the first round or late in round 1 

[glazeduck]

16 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I agree that it's less simple and at the same time not more complicated.    

 

But I actually think it's making GM's jobs easier by making it easier to make sound decisions..........so long as they embrace the information.  

 

A significant part of the evaluations/decisions are being done by the math.

 

It's just a different challenge requiring a different skillset -- something many NFL front offices are just beginning to realize. It's filtering through the noise to find the signals. 

 

Before technology played a vital role in evaluations, decisions were made on gut instinct and the scant tangible information available. The tools GMs have at their exposure today can help them make better, sounder decisions, but there's now far more meaningless information that they have to sift through or could be distracted by.

[GunnerBill]

40 minutes ago, glazeduck said:

It's just a different challenge requiring a different skillset -- something many NFL front offices are just beginning to realize. It's filtering through the noise to find the signals. 

 

Before technology played a vital role in evaluations, decisions were made on gut instinct and the scant tangible information available. The tools GMs have at their exposure today can help them make better, sounder decisions, but there's now far more meaningless information that they have to sift through or could be distracted by.

 

Yep. Absolutely right. It is like the RAS thing. RAS is a great additional metric. Another information source. We know from their recent drafts the Bills are one of the teams that really put store in it. But at the same time I think there are guys in this draft who some casual fans and mock drafters are almost grading on their RAS score. You still have to be able to put the tape on and see a guy who can play football at the end of the day. RAS can be a deciding factor where things are close. But you can't go RAS first and then tape 2nd. 

[glazeduck]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. Absolutely right. It is like the RAS thing. RAS is a great additional metric. Another information source. We know from their recent drafts the Bills are one of the teams that really put store in it. But at the same time I think there are guys in this draft who some casual fans and mock drafters are almost grading on their RAS score. You still have to be able to put the tape on and see a guy who can play football at the end of the day. RAS can be a deciding factor where things are close. But you can't go RAS first and then tape 2nd. 

100%, and to further complicate things, those variables VARY by position! I don't envy GMs these days  

[Hermes]

9 hours ago, Mc1320 said:

We wasted a year in our Super Bowl window last year while the Rams said “F those picks” and won the whole thing.  
 

Since CB is the only glaring weakness we have, if you can get a 1st rounder under control for 5 years at a prime position with Tre coming of a significant injury, do it regardless if it costs you a 2nd rounder or any other picks this year.

Seriously. Try to stock the cupboard with young talented players. What isn't a need this year might be one in another year or two. Which is why I'd say the Bills are more likely to trade up for a CB than any other position. If they can't make something happen for a guy they really like they'll just sit and take the best player they can get. Then look to move back up in the second, package next year's second and get as low as you can get for another high impact player. In the middle of the draft they could look to swap picks into more value based positions relative to their draft board.

[Back2Buff]

I personally don't like Booth, so I would agree with him falling.

 

Not enough production there and way too many times he has been burned.

 

I'm on the find a way to get McDuffie train.  Do whatever you need to do.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Back2Buff

[BigAl2526]

4 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

Walker right now is the hot name going # 1 so I would question the validity of a mock that has Walker not in the first round or late in round 1 

Here is the link.   https://www.audacy.com/sports/nfl/2022-nfl-mock-draft-panthers-pass-on-pickett-steelers-and-chiefs-trade-up

 

I found it through the NFLMockDraftDatabase, which misspelled the source site.  I copied from them and called it "Audacity."  It's actually Audacy.com, the parent company of WGR radio.  Here is that link:  https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/mock-drafts/2022/audacity-sports-2022-jasper-jones?date=2022-04-13

[Nextmanup]

On 4/13/2022 at 11:08 AM, YoloinOhio said:

He’s a lock to Bills at 25 if he’s there - JMO. I do not see him getting out of the 1st round due to injury. He’s a premium position with 🔥film and pedigree 

Would be lovely if he did slip and would could get him at a discounted price.

 

I'm thinking of a Buffalo Bill who slipped down the draft due to injury concerns.

I think he wore #34.

 

 

[CapeBreton]

I find it interesting that Kyler Gordon will be at the draft but not Booth, I like to believe the guys in attendance are those that the league are high on. Even though Stingley isn’t there and Corral over Pickett is off too, so maybe it all means nothing..

[gonzo1105]

I don’t think it’s necessarily any indicator. They have started being guys in that they think will go early day 2 the past couple of years. There are some guys in there that could go really late round 1 or early round 2 including Corral, Gordon, Dean, Karlaftis(who I think is severely overrated) 

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, CapeBreton said:

I find it interesting that Kyler Gordon will be at the draft but not Booth, I like to believe the guys in attendance are those that the league are high on. Even though Stingley isn’t there and Corral over Pickett is off too, so maybe it all means nothing..

I think you are nostalgic on old drafts where like 10 guys got invited and it was a story if you declined. 

[newcam2012]

On 4/13/2022 at 8:16 PM, intimidatortj said:

When Beane moved up to get Tremaine Edmunds, we moved from 22 to 16.   We had to give Baltimore our 65th pick.   

So if you want to move up from 25 to say around 12, it is going to cost you...a lot.   And no one wants our 6th and 7th round picks.  They are fairly worthless in first round trades.

 

Not impossible to move up that high, but normally it is reserved for a QB or a Julio Jones.

Beane moving up to get Edmunds sure looks like an error. 

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, CapeBreton said:

I find it interesting that Kyler Gordon will be at the draft but not Booth, I like to believe the guys in attendance are those that the league are high on. Even though Stingley isn’t there and Corral over Pickett is off too, so maybe it all means nothing..

 

A guy not being there doesn't mean anything. All sorts of reasons guys want to be at home. A guy being there DOES mean something though. It means the indications he is getting are that he will go day 1. 

6 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

I don’t think it’s necessarily any indicator. They have started being guys in that they think will go early day 2 the past couple of years. There are some guys in there that could go really late round 1 or early round 2 including Corral, Gordon, Dean, Karlaftis(who I think is severely overrated) 

 

Agree all those 4 are guys who could go late Day 1 or early day 2. I also agree Karlaftis is overrated. Reminds me a bit of Epenesa (as he was coming out pre the body transformation). 

Edited April 15, 2022 by GunnerBill

[GolfandBills]

9 hours ago, CapeBreton said:

I find it interesting that Kyler Gordon will be at the draft but not Booth, I like to believe the guys in attendance are those that the league are high on. Even though Stingley isn’t there and Corral over Pickett is off too, so maybe it all means nothing..

They can also decline going.  They aren’t required to go if invited 

[intimidatortj]

18 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Beane moving up to get Edmunds sure looks like an error. 

 

I can not dispute your assessment.

 

That is the danger of moving up.  You give up multiple picks, and the guy you get may not pan you.

 

Another example is when the Bills moved up in the 2nd round, giving up two 4th round picks (plus the 2nd round pick) to take Reggie Ragland.   He blow out his knee in rookie camp and missed his rookie year. 

[newcam2012]

10 minutes ago, intimidatortj said:

 

I can not dispute your assessment.

 

That is the danger of moving up.  You give up multiple picks, and the guy you get may not pan you.

 

Another example is when the Bills moved up in the 2nd round, giving up two 4th round picks (plus the 2nd round pick) to take Reggie Ragland.   He blow out his knee in rookie camp and missed his rookie year. 

Good one. I don't mind the strategy of moving up or back. Depends on the board and who is available. At least, Beane is willing to make moves. Obviously, its not an exact science and you can't hit a home run pn every draft pick. 

[Airseven]

Dan Brugler (Athletic) has Booth slipping into round 2 as well. Burks to Bills at #25.

[intimidatortj]

3 hours ago, Airseven said:

Dan Brugler (Athletic) has Booth slipping into round 2 as well. Burks to Bills at #25.

 

There must be something about his previous injuries that are turning off SOME teams.  Primarily those teams drafting 20-32.

 

PS I still like Dax Hill at 25, as well as Zion Johnson, maybe Kyler Gordon.  Not as sexy as a Wide Receiver, I know. 

[Richard Noggin]

38 minutes ago, intimidatortj said:

 

There must be something about his previous injuries that are turning off SOME teams.  Primarily those teams drafting 20-32.

 

PS I still like Dax Hill at 25, as well as Zion Johnson, maybe Kyler Gordon.  Not as sexy as a Wide Receiver, I know. 

I don't know much about Hill. Feel like elaborating on why you like him?

 

I've seen and heard many outlets listing him generally as a DB, rather than strictly a S. That usually suggests the player can come down and fill a kind of "big nickel" role. I don't think the Bills have much need there in the foreseeable future, with Taron Johnson, Siran Neal, and Matt Milano all signed up. So do you value him primarily as an actual safety/potential Poyer replacement? Hill doesn't project to have boundary flex, does he?

 

For what it's worth, I think Booth would be an absolute home run at 25. Great scheme and need fit. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Richard Noggin

[intimidatortj]

19 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

I don't know much about Hill. Feel like elaborating on why you like him?

 

I've seen and heard many outlets listing him generally as a DB, rather than strictly a S. That usually suggests the player can come down and fill a kind of "big nickel" role. I don't think the Bills have much need there in the foreseeable future, with Taron Johnson, Siran Neal, and Matt Milano all signed up. So do you value him primarily as an actual safety/potential Poyer replacement? Hill doesn't project to have boundary flex, does he?

 

For what it's worth, I think Booth would be an absolute home run at 25. Great scheme and need fit. 

 

I like Dax Hill.  I like his 4.38 forty.  We don't have that.   And yes he can play some corner. Some nickel.  Some slot. 

 

 But I like some other players better, but if they are gone I don't see Beane trading down so Dax Hill might be BPA.  And I don't care what position he plays in 2022.  Over the next 5 years he should be a nice piece to have in the secondary.

 

I would be cool if the Bills draft OL Trevor Penning at 25, if he is BPA, even though we don't need an OT.

 

I think I like Booth, but I keep hearing internet rumors that injuries are a concern going back to his 2019 and 2020 seasons.   I need more details...which we don't get access it. 

 

BPA at any position at 25.  Except QB.

 

 

 

[stinky finger]

On 4/13/2022 at 12:00 PM, ScottLaw said:

If both were there they’d take Booth in the first without question….. 

 

Disagree.

 

Thing is, JW has zero chance of being there at 25. 

[LEBills]

23 hours ago, Airseven said:

Dan Brugler (Athletic) has Booth slipping into round 2 as well. Burks to Bills at #25.

Maybe Booth’s medicals are worse than the public is aware of?

[GolfandBills]

Booth or Burks.  Burks would be such a fun weapon to have in our offense.  He’s the missing run after catch guy we need 

[intimidatortj]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Says who? 

"He's so fast and so athletic that it wouldn't surprise me if a team tried to make him a full-time cornerback. I think he has that kind of potential." -- Area scout for NFC team

 

Hill's best trait for the next level is his ability to line up and cover slot receivers. His quickness, flexibility and fluid athleticism allow him to line up at the line of scrimmage or pick up receivers in off-man coverage. Hill will be a real asset to his defense when going against dangerous slot receivers. For nickel, he is a phenomenal cover corner to run the route and prevent separation. - WalterFootball

 

I know many people have him ranked as a safety but I truly feel he is a versatile defensive back and shouldn’t be given a safety designation.  He has played slot corner, outside corner and nickel and the STAR position. - Draft Dive

 

In terms of defensive backs overall, Mel Kiper ranks Cincinnati’s Ahmad “Sauce” Gardner No. 1, either LSU's Derek Stingley Jr. or Notre Dame's Kyle Hamilton at No. 2 and Dax Hill, he said, would be next on that list.   “He’s one of the best overall defensive backs in this draft,” Kiper said.

 

Overall, Daxton Hill is a versatile defender who can be exceptional in the slot, align in centerfield, play the deep half, and he’s good enough to play in the box.   SI.com

[JaCrispy]

On 4/15/2022 at 7:16 PM, Airseven said:

Dan Brugler (Athletic) has Booth slipping into round 2 as well. Burks to Bills at #25.

I will cry if this happens...

[Richard Noggin]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Says who? 

 

1 hour ago, intimidatortj said:

"He's so fast and so athletic that it wouldn't surprise me if a team tried to make him a full-time cornerback. I think he has that kind of potential." -- Area scout for NFC team

 

Hill's best trait for the next level is his ability to line up and cover slot receivers. His quickness, flexibility and fluid athleticism allow him to line up at the line of scrimmage or pick up receivers in off-man coverage. Hill will be a real asset to his defense when going against dangerous slot receivers. For nickel, he is a phenomenal cover corner to run the route and prevent separation. - WalterFootball

 

I know many people have him ranked as a safety but I truly feel he is a versatile defensive back and shouldn’t be given a safety designation.  He has played slot corner, outside corner and nickel and the STAR position. - Draft Dive

 

In terms of defensive backs overall, Mel Kiper ranks Cincinnati’s Ahmad “Sauce” Gardner No. 1, either LSU's Derek Stingley Jr. or Notre Dame's Kyle Hamilton at No. 2 and Dax Hill, he said, would be next on that list.   “He’s one of the best overall defensive backs in this draft,” Kiper said.

 

Overall, Daxton Hill is a versatile defender who can be exceptional in the slot, align in centerfield, play the deep half, and he’s good enough to play in the box.   SI.com

 

Pretty sure Scott was reacting to the bolded nugget about OT not being a need. He, as you may be aware, is not sold on Spencer Brown. I think his skepticism is reasonably warranted, while his insistence on reiterating that skepticism is...less so. Such is the fate of a selective contrarian.

[intimidatortj]

20 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

 

Pretty sure Scott was reacting to the bolded nugget about OT not being a need. He, as you may be aware, is not sold on Spencer Brown. I think his skepticism is reasonably warranted, while his insistence on reiterating that skepticism is...less so. Such is the fate of a selective contrarian.

Ahh...not sold on Spencer Brown. Gotcha.    I am hopeful with one year under his belt, and coaching from our new OLine coach, Spencer Brown can hone his game this year.  He did show flashes during his rookie year of his upside, especially when run blocking in space. 

A lot may depend on who is playing RG.  Right now it looks like it will be Ryan Bates. 

[Richard Noggin]

8 minutes ago, intimidatortj said:

Ahh...not sold on Spencer Brown. Gotcha.    I am hopeful with one year under his belt, and coaching from our new OLine coach, Spencer Brown can hone his game this year.  He did show flashes during his rookie year of his upside, especially when run blocking in space. 

A lot may depend on who is playing RG.  Right now it looks like it will be Ryan Bates. 

 

Brown strikes me as a guy who knows he can be absolutely ELITE if he puts in the work (and stays healthy). He lives with (I think?) and trains with Joe Staley in the offseason (pretty sure he's repeating his program from last year; I'm not much for quick google searches but I do have a decent memory). Feels like a player who is going to maximize his talents. 

[newcam2012]

On 4/15/2022 at 4:16 PM, Airseven said:

Dan Brugler (Athletic) has Booth slipping into round 2 as well. Burks to Bills at #25.

I don't believe he will slip to the 2nd round. I call BS on this report. 

23 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

I don't know much about Hill. Feel like elaborating on why you like him?

 

I've seen and heard many outlets listing him generally as a DB, rather than strictly a S. That usually suggests the player can come down and fill a kind of "big nickel" role. I don't think the Bills have much need there in the foreseeable future, with Taron Johnson, Siran Neal, and Matt Milano all signed up. So do you value him primarily as an actual safety/potential Poyer replacement? Hill doesn't project to have boundary flex, does he?

 

For what it's worth, I think Booth would be an absolute home run at 25. Great scheme and need fit. 

Agree on Booth. He is the guy I want hands down at 25. 

[Richard Noggin]

15 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I just find it amusing people are sold on Spencer Brown, who was atrocious in pass blocking at times last season, but aren’t sold on Dane Jackson starting opposite White who played great as his replacement last season and much better at CB compared to Brown at Tackle …..but Josh can always bail out the offensive line if it struggles next year when they need him to be Superman again. 

 

I totally agree with you on Dane Jackson. He was SOLID last season, all things considered.

 

And I agree that Allen has repeatedly covered up for OL (and probably other) deficiencies. He's a cheat code. Especially if just one guy whiffs on a given play (like Cody Ford on almost every single snap against WFT last season, or, as you MIGHT have noticed, Spencer Brown in several games, most notably to my in-stadium memory, against the Panthers). So Bills fans are probably caught up in the traits and on-field flashes, as well as the demeanor and determination that we feed off. Thus, they're happy to ignore the bad reps. Maybe because Allen has shown us that raw potential can be realized.