New "ironclad" Stadium deal reached

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Some teams will demand new stadiums and (also) get tons of money from their states and counties.  Others will have renovations done.  What the Bills do in 25 years is anyone's guess.

 

yeah...like I said

[Doc]

34 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

yeah...like I said

 

Yeah, you said stuff...

[Mr. WEO]

17 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah, you said stuff...

 

 

 "Any talk of the Ravens, Bucs, Browns, Titans, Steelers, Broncos, Seahawks, Lions and Texans getting new stadiums, which are at or over the 20 year mark?"

 

"I the next 10 years you will hear calls for many of those stadiums to be replaced.  The RCA Dome made it to 23 years.  Silverdome made int to 26 years.  3 Rivers made it to 30.  Giants stadium 33.  Bills stadium is the only place hitting 50 without a major overhaul.   Other than the above, there is no stadium over 35 years old."

[Doc]

56 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 "Any talk of the Ravens, Bucs, Browns, Titans, Steelers, Broncos, Seahawks, Lions and Texans getting new stadiums, which are at or over the 20 year mark?"

 

"I the next 10 years you will hear calls for many of those stadiums to be replaced.  The RCA Dome made it to 23 years.  Silverdome made int to 26 years.  3 Rivers made it to 30.  Giants stadium 33.  Bills stadium is the only place hitting 50 without a major overhaul.   Other than the above, there is no stadium over 35 years old."

 

Great, one of those teams is getting a new stadium (the other was conjecture and highly unlikely given the cheapness of Mike Brown and the money he'll need to pay Joe Burrow soon).  It's no more a proven trend than the Bills, and now the Titans, getting massive taxpayer money is a trend.  So unless every team with a stadium that is 25+ years old gets replaced, my points that stadiums don't have to be replaced after 25 years and you have no idea what will happen in 25 years with the Bills' stadium still stand.

[Doc Brown]

23 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

Lawmakers approve budget with $500 million for Titans' new stadium (msn.com)

https://titanswire.usatoday.com/2022/04/16/tennessee-titans-new-stadium-conceptual-design/

 

The remaining funds for the enclosed stadium, which is projected to cost anywhere from $1.9 to $2.2 billion and could be finished by 2026, will come from the Looks like they will have a top on theirs

Makes sense in a booming region as they'll want to host Final fours, college bowl games, more concerts, Super Bowls, etc...  Makes a lot more sense for them to have an enclosed downtown stadium than the Bills.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Doc Brown

[Buffalo_Stampede]

17 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

• Building downtown may not have been worth it anyway

 

Hearsay! Fake news!  Misinformation! 

 

Downtown and the dome was the way to go.  🤑 

Im sure the stadium will be nice but we’ll regret not doing it right. Just like with the current stadium.

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Im sure the stadium will be nice but we’ll regret not doing it right. Just like with the current stadium.

 

Regret not doing it when it comes to Bills games?

[AuntieEm]

On 4/6/2022 at 2:50 PM, TheFunPolice said:

 

The Seneca money comes from WNY is my point. That's where the casinos are and most of their customers are from this general vicinity. 

 

I could be wrong, but I doubt people are coming from all over America to go to Salamanca to gamble. 

 

Overall, I typically enjoy your posts, so I appreciate the back and forth. We just disagree on this one, and that's fine. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

    Indeed seems like a good deal  gamblers paying of the states share, but the money is generated in wny.  Rather it spent on wny stuff than funding upstate on something I won't likely use.

 

[SoCal Deek]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Im sure the stadium will be nice but we’ll regret not doing it right. Just like with the current stadium.

I’d love to hear your definition of ‘right’. We haven’t even seen a rendering yet. 

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’d love to hear your definition of ‘right’. We haven’t even seen a rendering yet. 

no dome = wrong

dome = right

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Great, one of those teams is getting a new stadium (the other was conjecture and highly unlikely given the cheapness of Mike Brown and the money he'll need to pay Joe Burrow soon).  It's no more a proven trend than the Bills, and now the Titans, getting massive taxpayer money is a trend.  So unless every team with a stadium that is 25+ years old gets replaced, my points that stadiums don't have to be replaced after 25 years and you have no idea what will happen in 25 years with the Bills' stadium still stand.

 

No one is arguing otherwise.  The point is....owners simply want it anyway.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’d love to hear your definition of ‘right’. We haven’t even seen a rendering yet. 

Dome downtown. We got neither. 

[Augie]

42 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Dome downtown. We got neither. 

 

That probably would have been my preference. However, we got my TOP priority, and the Bills will remain in WNY. I can live with anything that might look like. I feel blessed by this team and their presence in their proper home. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

No one is arguing otherwise.  The point is....owners simply want it anyway.

 

Some do, some don't.  We won't know what the owners of the Bills will do in 29 years...until that time.  And it won't be Terry, or even Kim making the call, since she'll be 81 then.

 

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Dome downtown. We got neither. 

 

Again at the cost of another billion dollars to the taxpayers, it was never going to happen.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Doc

[Buffalo716]

21 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Some do, some don't.  We won't know what the owners of the Bills will do in 29 years...until that time.  And it won't be Terry, or even Kim making the call, since she'll be 81 then.

 

 

Again at the cost of another billion dollars to the taxpayers, it was never going to happen.

Exactly 

 

Every publication from The New York times To The Wall Street journal is complaining about it already

 

It would be another billion with a downtown dome ... It was never happening

 

 

[McDeerInTheHeadlights]

The cold truth is that from a financial standpoint WNY is a region that can barely support an NFL franchise. All the passionate tailgating, jumping through tables and waiting in freezing temperatures outside the airport in the world can't change that.

 

Keeping that in mind, everyone involved agreed on the only viable solution for a new stadium in WNY.

 

Sure, halfway through the new lease the Bills stadium might be the only open air stadium left in the NFL, but there was no other way around it.

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by McDeerInTheHeadlights

[Buffalo716]

41 minutes ago, McDeerInTheHeadlights said:

The cold truth is that from a financial standpoint WNY is a region that can barely support an NFL franchise. All the passionate tailgating, jumping through tables and waiting in freezing temperatures outside the airport in the world can't change that.

 

Keeping that in mind, everyone involved agreed on the only viable solution for a new stadium in WNY.

 

Sure, halfway through the new lease the Bills stadium might be the only open air stadium left in the NFL, but there was no other way around it.

 

Guaranteed it's not

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Some do, some don't.  We won't know what the owners of the Bills will do in 29 years...until that time.  And it won't be Terry, or even Kim making the call, since she'll be 81 then.

 

 

Again at the cost of another billion dollars to the taxpayers, it was never going to happen.

Today no, 5 years ago it was possible. The whole point is they waited until there was no possible way to build downtown. They had no other options. 
 

 

49 minutes ago, McDeerInTheHeadlights said:

The cold truth is that from a financial standpoint WNY is a region that can barely support an NFL franchise. All the passionate tailgating, jumping through tables and waiting in freezing temperatures outside the airport in the world can't change that.

 

Keeping that in mind, everyone involved agreed on the only viable solution for a new stadium in WNY.

 

Sure, halfway through the new lease the Bills stadium might be the only open air stadium left in the NFL, but there was no other way around it.

 

I can’t see Pittsburgh and Green Bay with roofs. 

[McDeerInTheHeadlights]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Today no, 5 years ago it was possible. The whole point is they waited until there was no possible way to build downtown. They had no other options. 
 

 

I can’t see Pittsburgh and Green Bay with roofs. 

 

It doesn't really matter.

 

Building anything different in WNY would have been financially reckless for anyone involved, from the Pegulas through the NFL to local and state authorities.

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, McDeerInTheHeadlights said:

 

It doesn't really matter.

 

Building anything different in WNY would have been financially reckless for anyone involved, from the Pegulas through the NFL to local and state authorities.

I think they would've been able to figure out how to put up an extra estimated 109 million to build a stadium that would be able to support a roof when people finally came to their senses.  Just a small quibble though as I find it a minor miracle they managed to build a new NFL stadium in the 2nd smallest NFL market (53rd overall) behind Green Bay .  I'm sure with revenue sharing there were a lot of other owners that would've loved for them to move to a bigger market.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Doc Brown

[SoCal Deek]

9 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Dome downtown. We got neither. 

Fair enough, but I’m still going to recommend we all wait to see what the stadium looks like. I’m pretty sure, as many have already said, that a downtown dome would’ve ended up a stripped version of what you see in your head. Just a big empty box of a building sitting off the edge of downtown bringing very little if any of the life and vitality you’ve got in your mind. I was in San Antonio last summer for a conference and there were thousands of people on the River Walk in the heart of the city all having a great time. A couple of blocks away sat the huge and looming Alamodome, empty and lifeless surrounded by an empty parking lot. 

[Doc]

7 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Today no, 5 years ago it was possible. The whole point is they waited until there was no possible way to build downtown. They had no other options. 

 

It still would have been a huge expense in 2017 dollars.  And the Bills would have been coming off their 17th straight non-playoff season.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

41 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Fair enough, but I’m still going to recommend we all wait to see what the stadium looks like. I’m pretty sure, as many have already said, that a downtown dome would’ve ended up a stripped version of what you see in your head. Just a big empty box of a building sitting off the edge of downtown bringing very little if any of the life and vitality you’ve got in your mind. I was in San Antonio last summer for a conference and there were thousands of people on the River Walk in the heart of the city all having a great time. A couple of blocks away sat the huge and looming Alamodome, empty and lifeless surrounded by an empty parking lot. 

I don’t know about you but I always go walk around stadiums in any city I visit. They are a tourist attraction for me, I can’t be the only one. I’m not saying stadiums bring in money to the city but many people do like looking at them when they visit a city.
 

But anyways, downtown was only one part of it. A roof was the other part. Location wasn’t ever a huge deal for me. I had a preference but it really didn’t matter. The roof was the most important thing for me. OP with a roof would’ve been great

Edited April 24, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I don’t know about you but I always go walk around stadiums in any city I visit. They are a tourist attraction for me, I can’t be the only one. I’m not saying stadiums bring in money to the city but many people do like looking at them when they visit a city.
 

But anyways, downtown was only one part of it. A roof was the other part. Location wasn’t ever a huge deal for me. I had a preference but it really didn’t matter. The roof was the most important thing for me. OP with a roof would’ve been great. 

 

Is that because you don't want to deal with the cold? 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Is that because you don't want to deal with the cold? 

No one does, especially the players. 
 

It’s actually the rain and wind more than the cold. It’s a miserable climate.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

No one does, especially the players. 
 

It’s actually the rain and wind more than the cold. It’s a miserable climate.

 

The overhang will shield the fans from rain, wind and snow, but admittedly not cold.  But the lack of wind will remove the wind chill effect.  And I think all the seats will be heated.  In addition, being open-air will allow for a grass field which will be heated so it will be soft and can melt snow, and the players will love that.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The overhang will shield the fans from rain, wind and snow, but admittedly not cold.  But the lack of wind will remove the wind chill effect.  And I think all the seats will be heated.  In addition, being open-air will allow for a grass field which will be heated so it will be soft and can melt snow, and the players will love that.

As I’ve said, it’s going to be a good stadium. 

[Doc]

46 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

As I’ve said, it’s going to be a good stadium. 

 

It's the best compromise.  A dome would have been nice, but would have precluded a grass field, which is what players really want.  And a retractable field wasn't going to happen.

[Punching Bag]

12 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Some do, some don't.  We won't know what the owners of the Bills will do in 29 years...until that time.  And it won't be Terry, or even Kim making the call, since she'll be 81 then.

 

 

She may be still owner then and active.  Women tend to live longer then men and there have been plenty of active owners in 80s.

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

She may be still owner then and active.  Women tend to live longer then men and there have been plenty of active owners in 80s.

 

Possibly.  She also may step down well before then and hand it over to her kids.  The point (all along) being: we don't know what will happen in 25 years.

[SoCal Deek]

6 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I don’t know about you but I always go walk around stadiums in any city I visit. They are a tourist attraction for me, I can’t be the only one. I’m not saying stadiums bring in money to the city but many people do like looking at them when they visit a city.
 

But anyways, downtown was only one part of it. A roof was the other part. Location wasn’t ever a huge deal for me. I had a preference but it really didn’t matter. The roof was the most important thing for me. OP with a roof would’ve been great

Many people on here know that I’m an architect and I design major public projects….so yes I regularly tour stadiums. Just got a tour of SoFi Stadium in Los Angeles a few months ago. Everyone can debate the location and the design but let’s wait to see what they create before passing final judgment.

[ALF]

 Senator: Public money should mean public ownership for stadiums     (like Green Bay)

ALBANY: Proposal ties public funds to ownership stake in professional sports teams. 

If New York residents are footing the bill for sports stadiums, Sen. Jabari Brisport thinks state residents should be given an opportunity to buy the teams, too.

 

 According to the Investigative Post, five stadiums and arenas in New York City have been built since 2009 — new baseball stadiums for the Yankees and Mets, a hockey arena for the New York Islanders and the new arena for the Brooklyn Nets. Madison Square Garden was also renovated in 2013. Combined, those five projects received roughly $379 million — or 6% of the combing project cost — from taxpayers.

 

https://www.lockportjournal.com/news/local_news/senator-public-money-should-mean-public-ownership-for-stadiums/article_ec8d35cd-b356-59ec-b2bc-b1f1eb958382.html

 

Good thing Kathy was able to pass the stadium funding , I'm not sure if the county passed it yet.

[Doc]

3 hours ago, ALF said:

 Senator: Public money should mean public ownership for stadiums     (like Green Bay)

ALBANY: Proposal ties public funds to ownership stake in professional sports teams. 

If New York residents are footing the bill for sports stadiums, Sen. Jabari Brisport thinks state residents should be given an opportunity to buy the teams, too.

 

 According to the Investigative Post, five stadiums and arenas in New York City have been built since 2009 — new baseball stadiums for the Yankees and Mets, a hockey arena for the New York Islanders and the new arena for the Brooklyn Nets. Madison Square Garden was also renovated in 2013. Combined, those five projects received roughly $379 million — or 6% of the combing project cost — from taxpayers.

 

https://www.lockportjournal.com/news/local_news/senator-public-money-should-mean-public-ownership-for-stadiums/article_ec8d35cd-b356-59ec-b2bc-b1f1eb958382.html

 

Good thing Kathy was able to pass the stadium funding , I'm not sure if the county passed it yet.

 

This is beyond dumb.  In the Bills' case, the state owns the stadium, even though the Pegulas/NFL kicked-in 40% of the cost.  

Edited April 25, 2022 by Doc

[boater]

22 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Many people on here know that I’m an architect and I design major public projects….so yes I regularly tour stadiums. Just got a tour of SoFi Stadium in Los Angeles a few months ago. Everyone can debate the location and the design but let’s wait to see what they create before passing final judgment.

Agree.

 

And they didn't go cheap and hire Joe Schmoe's Architecture from Cheektowaga. They hired a world class architecture firm with plenty of experience. I'm sure the result will be amazing.

[LeGOATski]

23 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Many people on here know that I’m an architect and I design major public projects….so yes I regularly tour stadiums. Just got a tour of SoFi Stadium in Los Angeles a few months ago. Everyone can debate the location and the design but let’s wait to see what they create before passing final judgment.

I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I've already dubbed it the greatest architectural achievement of the 21st century.

[SoCal Deek]

53 minutes ago, boater said:

Agree.

 

And they didn't go cheap and hire Joe Schmoe's Architecture from Cheektowaga. They hired a world class architecture firm with plenty of experience. I'm sure the result will be amazing.

I assume that a pretty contemporary design is coming. I know that many on here have pointed to the brick clad aesthetics of Seattle and Indianapolis as examples to emulate. It’ll be interesting to see which direction they go.

[Punching Bag]

I hope the design accounts for weather and maintenance.  Flash is fine but something solid is more important.

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

Question: have the plans for Highmark Stadium been determined? I.e. when they move to the new stadium what happens to the existing one?

I assume it will be demolished and redeveloped for parking, commercial, residential, etc. but I don't know any details. 

 

It's hard to imagine the demolition of the place I have felt enjoyment (and suffering) both in person and on TV for so many years. It will be something to watch those upper decks drop when the explosions go off.  

[SoCal Deek]

10 hours ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

Question: have the plans for Highmark Stadium been determined? I.e. when they move to the new stadium what happens to the existing one?

I assume it will be demolished and redeveloped for parking, commercial, residential, etc. but I don't know any details. 

 

It's hard to imagine the demolition of the place I have felt enjoyment (and suffering) both in person and on TV for so many years. It will be something to watch those upper decks drop when the explosions go off.  

Simple…I’d imagine the footprint of the current stadium will be converted into a parking lot since the new stadium will take up a portion of the existing parking. And I’m not sure how many explosions there’ll be. The lower bowl of course sits into the ground. So only the upper decks need to come down. I’m guessing it’ll be large jackhammers and wrecking balls, as opposed to explosives…but we’ll see.

[Mr. WEO]

23 hours ago, Doc said:

 

This is beyond dumb.  In the Bills' case, the state owns the stadium, even though the Pegulas/NFL kicked-in 40% of the cost.  

 

"Pegula" will pay a fraction of that 40% you cite.