Derek Carr in line for $40 million per year extension

[frostbitmic]

 

Another team with less $$$ to spend sounds good to me.

[billsbackto81]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean he beat Herbert in what was literally the biggest game of the year for both. Win and you are in. Carr won. 

Did you walk away from that game thinking Carr was a better QB than Herbert?

 

I know the win is all that matters but you're kidding yourself if you believe Carr is better than Herbert or Burrow is better than Mahomes or Allen because he was in the SB . Not insulting your post because I'm sure you realize wins come from more than just QB play. 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by billsbackto81

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

What world are we living in where a Top 12 QB is worth 40 mil per?

 

Honestly, if Jackson could stay healthy I feel it's a no brainer. He can still get better where I think Carr has topped out. Jackson outside of Hollywood Brown and Andrews doesn't have much. Mayfield isn't even in the convo at this point. 

 

So I agree, the market is screwed up. It is totally inefficient. If you have a top 4 to 6 QB they are expensive but they can carry your team. If you have a guy in the next bracket sort of 6 or 7 to 12 that is production that is really hard to replicate. So you want to pay them. But the market barely recognises those tiers as different. It puts you in a bind. But the problem is if you don't do it someone else will, it is the problem when demand outstrips supply. The great get paid like they are great. The good get paid like they are great too. 

 

And agree on Baker. At this point I would not pay him. The smart move is let him play on the option and then if needs be tag him. 

1 minute ago, billsbackto81 said:

Did you walk away from that game thinking Carr was a better QB than Herbert?

 

I know the win is all that matters but you're kidding yourself if you believe Carr is better than Herbert or Burrow is better than Mahomes or Allen. Not insulting your post because I'm sure you realize wins come from more than just QB play. 

 

No I didn't but the accusation was the Raiders are stupid for paying him cos he can't beat Herbert when the Raiders literally just beat the Chargers in an all or nothing game. 

 

You are right wins come from more than Quarterback play. Which is why simply saying "well Derek Carr has only made the playoffs twice" as some have is asnine too.

 

I get it Carr needs more things right around him than the Raiders have provided for the most part. He does. But put say even a Mayfield on this team and I think they win 5 or 6 games absolute max. There are lots of problems with Vegas. But Derek Carr is the least of them. There is him, Waller and Crosby and then a lot of chaff. 

[Brand J]

2 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

And you obviously don’t understand either… even though you explained it 🤦🏻‍♂️
 

QBs like Carr… who are nowhere near the player Josh Allen is… are going to start getting deals around $40M/yr and above. Jackson, Mayfield, etc. 
 

It’s a steal as the market will continue to go berserk… as proven by guys like Carr and Jackson being discussed at $40M/yr QBs… 

It’s not a “steal” at the time the deal is made if it makes him the 2nd highest paid player in the league. Some QB like Herbert or Burrow will end up resetting the market in the years to come, yes, but it doesn’t make the current deal a steal if you’re comparing it to future deals that haven’t even been inked. It was fair market value, not a steal, unless you believe he should’ve been given a contract that exceeded Mahomes.

[BuffaloBills1998]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So I agree, the market is screwed up. It is totally inefficient. If you have a top 4 to 6 QB they are expensive but they can carry your team. If you have a guy in the next bracket sort of 6 or 7 to 12 that is production that is really hard to replicate. So you want to pay them. But the market barely recognises those tiers as different. It puts you in a bind. But the problem is if you don't do it someone else will, it is the problem when demand outstrips supply. The great get paid like they are great. The good get paid like they are great too. 

 

And agree on Baker. At this point I would not pay him. The smart move is let him play on the option and then if needs be tag him. 

 

No I didn't but the accusation was the Raiders are stupid for paying him cos he can't beat Herbert when the Raiders literally just beat the Chargers in an all or nothing game. 

 

You are right wins come from more than Quarterback play. Which is why simply saying "well Derek Carr has only made the playoffs twice" as some have is asnine too.

 

I get it Carr needs more things right around him than the Raiders have provided for the most part. He does. But put say even a Mayfield on this team and I think they win 5 or 6 games absolute max. There are lots of problems with Vegas. But Derek Carr is the least of them. There is him, Waller and Crosby and then a lot of chaff. 

How’s it asnine? Tell me exactly what makes Carr not one of the problems in LV?? Or during his time in Oakland?? Look at his stats, he’s wildly inconsistent. He can’t read defenses, he has happy feet and checks down to the RB when he can’t find anyone. He had a grand total of 28 turnovers this season, 14 INTS and 14 fumbles. I don’t see what you guys see in him. He can’t beat the Chiefs consistently. He has a 57-70 record as a starting QB. He’s a poor mans Andy Dalton and Alex Smith. Infact I remember Smith and Chiefs owning Carr before Mahomes came around. Also IF Rodgers does end up in Denver then that easily makes Carr the worst QB in that division 

[Don Otreply]

How many playoff games has car won, oh, and has he ever won his division? Asking for a friend…

[Big Blitz]

8 QBs in the AFC going to be making 40 plus million a year by 2025

 

Mahomes 

Allen

Herbert

Burrow

Jackson

Carr

Baker (if he resumes 2020 form yes he is)

Watson (if innocent)

Lawrence (I believe) 

 

 

So will all their windows be closed?

 

 

 

The NFC QBs in 2024 making 30-40 million:

 

Dak

Wilson?

Rodgers? 

Cousins?  

Stafford?

?

?

 

And Wilson and Rodgers could end up in the AFC as soon as this season.  I doubt it but...

 

[DCofNC]

Nope, let him walk, he’s marginally better than Mariota.

[MJS]

Carr is the new Andy Dalton or Alex Smith. You can do better, but you can do worse too.

 

They are right on that line. They aren't good enough to get you anywhere special, and they aren't bad enough to really actively want to replace them.

[HappyDays]

Carr is better than a lot of people in this thread think. His WR corps, OL, and defense are average at best. The only elite player on that offense is Waller. Carr is a QB you can win with, it just takes more talent around him than the Allens and Mahomes of the world need. Replacing Carr wouldn't solve their problems. They simply need to draft better.

[HappyDays]

14 hours ago, nbbillsfan said:

Paying the second teir guys like Carr, Baker, Cousins ect 80-90% of elite QB money is a death move.

 

Carr is 2nd tier. Cousins is 3rd tier. Baker is 4th tier. They are not at all the same level of QB. It's much easier to build a team around a QB like Carr than it is to replace that caliber of QB play.

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, MJS said:

Carr is the new Andy Dalton or Alex Smith. You can do better, but you can do worse too.

 

They are right on that line. They aren't good enough to get you anywhere special, and they aren't bad enough to really actively want to replace them.

 

I think he is a tier above both of those guys. 

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Carr is 2nd tier. Cousins is 3rd tier. Baker is 4th tier. They are not at all the same level of QB. It's much easier to build a team around a QB like Carr than it is to replace that caliber of QB play.

 

THIS. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

10 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

8 QBs in the AFC going to be making 40 plus million a year by 2025

 

Mahomes 

Allen

Herbert

Burrow

Jackson

Carr

Baker (if he resumes 2020 form yes he is)

Watson (if innocent he doesn't go to jail)

Lawrence (I believe) 

 

 

 

 

 

Fixed.

 

I know, I know, rushing to judgment on my part, but when you get the 13th, 14th, 15th alleger...I'm thinking there is something there there.

 

But I know what you meant, BB, just stressing the point.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

23 hours ago, Ramza86 said:

 

how many of those years did we end up with a top 5 pick? 3?

 

If you can be horrible and get a top 3 pick 2-3 years in a row...you can turn it around a lot quicker.

Can you provide any example of what you are suggesting? I cant think of a single scenario where a team was that awful consecutively and made a quick turn around. 

[Ramza86]

1 minute ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Can you provide any example of what you are suggesting? I cant think of a single scenario where a team was that awful consecutively and made a quick turn around. 

 

This literally just happened with Joe Burrow. lol

 

But yeah, its not easy either. 

 

I think if the Browns ended up taking Allen could have been a quick turnaround for them.

 

Chargers sucked for 1 year and got Justin Herbert, if he shows even more improvement youre looking at a quick turnaround with a potential elite qb,

[MJS]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think he is a tier above both of those guys.

I disagree. Dalton and Smith both had some really good regular seasons in their days. But they both lacked that ability to put the team on their backs in critical situations. I think Carr lacks that as well.

[nbbillsfan]

10 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Carr is 2nd tier. Cousins is 3rd tier. Baker is 4th tier. They are not at all the same level of QB. It's much easier to build a team around a QB like Carr than it is to replace that caliber of QB play.

And yet if you look at the teams who have sustained successes over the last 20 years, it’s all teams with elite QB’s. With a Carr level QB you need everything else to click in order to be competitive. As a fan, I’m not interested in a one hit wonder season. I’d rather bottom out and keep trying to get a QB that gives the team a legitimate chance at playoffs/superbowl Every year.

 

Also Cousins is just as good or better than Carr.

[BuffaloButt]

Derek will now be able to afford more eye liner!!

[Don Otreply]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he is a tier above both of those guys. 

 

THIS. 

   I did a quick on line look,  Carr really hasn’t won anything to speak of as a pro, he has had a few good seasons, but as I said up thread, has he ever won his division?
 

     Carr may be a bit above those that are a bit above average. I guess that could make him a 2nd tier QB, but winning his division even once might be an indicator of being 2nd tier, hell, even Dak pulled that off, of course wiki may not have such a milestone listed.., 😁

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Don Otreply said:

   I did a quick on line look,  Carr really hasn’t won anything to speak of as a pro, he has had a few good seasons, but as I said up thread, has he ever won his division?
 

     Carr may be a bit above those that are a bit above average. I guess that could make him a 2nd tier QB, but winning his division even once might be an indicator of being 2nd tier, hell, even Dak pulled that off, of course wiki may not have such a milestone listed.., 😁

 

On a terrible, dysfunctional team 

[Don Otreply]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

On a terrible, dysfunctional team 

Dak won his division on a totally did functional team…, 😁

[Tanoros]

On 2/16/2022 at 6:16 AM, Ramza86 said:

 

how many of those years did we end up with a top 5 pick? 3?

 

If you can be horrible and get a top 3 pick 2-3 years in a row...you can turn it around a lot quicker.

This will lead to a new coach and possibly GM, meaning a good chance of changing the teams identity, so reshaping the roster. 
 

All in all, there’s tough choices to make when your QB isn’t one of the star qb’s, but there just isn’t any guarantee that young guys will pan out. The last handful of years have many feeling it’s easy to get a top young QB, because there has been so many. However, think about the QB’s drafted from the mid 2000’s to early 2010’s. There wasn’t a’lot of stars like we’ve seen recently. 
 

Personally, I think every situation has to be examined on its own, and blanket approaches don’t work in regards to paying good qb’s top qb money. 
 

Think about a team like the Broncos or Colts, Carr would help them SO much and have them competing for the playoffs and more. The other side of the coin is a team like Houston or Detroit, Carr would be an upgrade, but they need so much more as it is. I think it really comes to, “It Depends”. 
 

Back in our drought days, I would have LOVED to have a qb like Carr. 

[Tanoros]

17 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

How’s it asnine? Tell me exactly what makes Carr not one of the problems in LV?? Or during his time in Oakland?? Look at his stats, he’s wildly inconsistent. He can’t read defenses, he has happy feet and checks down to the RB when he can’t find anyone. He had a grand total of 28 turnovers this season, 14 INTS and 14 fumbles. I don’t see what you guys see in him. He can’t beat the Chiefs consistently. He has a 57-70 record as a starting QB. He’s a poor mans Andy Dalton and Alex Smith. Infact I remember Smith and Chiefs owning Carr before Mahomes came around. Also IF Rodgers does end up in Denver then that easily makes Carr the worst QB in that division 

The Raiders had poor offensive line play this year, including tons of penalties on them. Also, competing Carrs record across his career, when just about everyone acknowledges that football is a team sport, doesn’t help a’lot. The Raiders as an organization haven’t exactly don’t Carr a’lot of favors. Imagine if they kept Cooper or Mack, I imagine Carr record would be better in the seasons post losing those two. Additionally, consider Carr on teams like the Colts, Broncos, Bucs, even Carolina. Those teams would be significant threats to just about any team. He isn’t a star by any means, but you can win with him. I honestly don’t see Carr being much different than Stafford. 

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

Extending him this year makes no sense.  Pay him his current 20mil, use the 13-20mil you're not spending on an extension to get him OL/WR help in FA, then feel it out with the new coach for a year.  Pay him his 40+ next year if it looks good.  

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

Dak won his division on a totally did functional team…, 😁

 

Dak is a good Quarterback and has some players around him.

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

On a terrible, dysfunctional team 

I wouldn't go quite that far as to say "dysfunctional". They did kinda pull it together shortly after the Gruden stuff etc. But I do agree Carr could use some better players around him.

 

Interested to see how J. McD will do this time with a 2nd chance at HC. 

[BuffaloBills1998]

1 hour ago, Tanoros said:

The Raiders had poor offensive line play this year, including tons of penalties on them. Also, competing Carrs record across his career, when just about everyone acknowledges that football is a team sport, doesn’t help a’lot. The Raiders as an organization haven’t exactly don’t Carr a’lot of favors. Imagine if they kept Cooper or Mack, I imagine Carr record would be better in the seasons post losing those two. Additionally, consider Carr on teams like the Colts, Broncos, Bucs, even Carolina. Those teams would be significant threats to just about any team. He isn’t a star by any means, but you can win with him. I honestly don’t see Carr being much different than Stafford. 

I don’t even see him in Stafford’s level. He can’t elevate the talent he has around him. And the raiders don’t have the cap space or draft picks to give away like the Rams did. So building an all star team  in LV ain’t happening. Also put Carr on the Rams and I guarantee they don’t make it to the SB. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by BuffaloBills1998

[Einstein's Dog]

On 2/16/2022 at 11:01 AM, JayBaller10 said:

Wouldn’t ever call $43M/yr a “steal,” especially when he comes in at 2nd highest paid. It’s fair market value, based on the current flawed market.

What it does show though is it is a wise decision to lock up your good players early.  To Beane's credit he was sold on Josh early enough to extend him early.  With rising prices it is a good policy to extend at market price a year in advance. I think they will do it for Knox and Davis (and Diggs' new contract).  You don't get out unscathed but if you wait it is worse.

[BuffaloBills1998]

1 hour ago, Tanoros said:

The Raiders had poor offensive line play this year, including tons of penalties on them. Also, competing Carrs record across his career, when just about everyone acknowledges that football is a team sport, doesn’t help a’lot. The Raiders as an organization haven’t exactly don’t Carr a’lot of favors. Imagine if they kept Cooper or Mack, I imagine Carr record would be better in the seasons post losing those two. Additionally, consider Carr on teams like the Colts, Broncos, Bucs, even Carolina. Those teams would be significant threats to just about any team. He isn’t a star by any means, but you can win with him. I honestly don’t see Carr being much different than Stafford. 

Also the raiders couldn’t afford to keep either Mack or Cooper when Carr got his 100 million contract. Also both Mack and Cooper wanted out of the raiders. 

[Brand J]

51 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

What it does show though is it is a wise decision to lock up your good players early.  To Beane's credit he was sold on Josh early enough to extend him early.  With rising prices it is a good policy to extend at market price a year in advance. I think they will do it for Knox and Davis (and Diggs' new contract).  You don't get out unscathed but if you wait it is worse.

Agreed. Definitely wise to do so before the cap went up. Not sold on a lucrative extension for Knox though.

[Einstein's Dog]

6 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Agreed. Definitely wise to do so before the cap went up. Not sold on a lucrative extension for Knox though.

There were people who thought giving Josh the extension early was risky. These are the type of small risks the FO needs to continue. Knox is looking like the best TE the Bills have ever had, and people are hesitant to pay him Tonyan money.

 

If you have some doubts on the "pay your own" philosophy please keep the focus where it belongs - Singletary and Edmunds.

[Patrick Duffy]

8 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

If you have some doubts on the "pay your own" philosophy please keep the focus where it belongs - Singletary and Edmunds.

 

I would say Ford way before Devin or Edmunds and actually wouldn't include Devin. He did what well once he finally got more opportunities the blocking finally improved.

 

But Ford for sure, I can see why you said Edmunds though, 

[Einstein's Dog]

2 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

 

I would say Ford way before Devin or Edmunds and actually wouldn't include Devin. He did what well once he finally got more opportunities the blocking finally improved.

 

But Ford for sure, I can see why you said Edmunds though, 

I like Singletary, but to me the problem is, RBs are not worth it.  I would like to see them draft another.  Market price for veteran RBs look to be in the $5-6M range. Spotrac estimates Fournette/Connor/Michel in the $5-6m range and G Edwards/K Drake brought in $4-5M last year.

 

The FO loves Edmunds. They might extend him.

 

I didn't count Ford because I don't see much decision needed, you let his contract play out

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I like Singletary, but to me the problem is, RBs are not worth it.  I would like to see them draft another.  Market price for veteran RBs look to be in the $5-6M range. Spotrac estimates Fournette/Connor/Michel in the $5-6m range and G Edwards/K Drake brought in $4-5M last year.

 

The FO loves Edmunds. They might extend him.

 

I didn't count Ford because I don't see much decision needed, you let his contract play out

I'm not sure what Devin's numbers are and don't feel like looking up, but I wouldn't think he is over paid or anything. I definitely agree with you about another RB being added. I just don't have much confidence in Moss, maybe it's just me, or maybe just need to see how he does with new OL coach/Dorsey. Either way I'd still bring another RB to compete with him

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Dak is a good Quarterback and has some players around him.

Dak plays for JJ, that pretty much makes it a dysfunctional team, 😁

[aristocrat]

They should just walk from it. There needs to be second tier qb money