Baltimore Ravens fire defensive coordinator Don Martindale, source says

[hemma]

5 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Gailey had the same reputation. More from less.

 

Would you not want Josh in Gailey's offense?

I’d take Chan over Roman.  Both have strengths & faults, but Chan was a QB and might have some great insights for a dual threat QB.

Roman, not so much.

[BuffaloBills1998]

If Frazier leaves ( which I doubt ),  I would bring this guy here. He can coach. I’m really shocked that they haven’t fired Harbaugh. Guy hasn’t done ***** since winning the SB with Flacco

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Flores incoming

Fores will get a HC job.  He did a good job in Miami other than bungling Tua's growth.

[BillsFan130]

3 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

honestly I think the backup Huntley is it? Can do just as good as or be a better passing than Lamar. 
 

 

Thats a bit bold IMO.

 

Lamar is still a good QB.

 

He has got flaws for sure, but he is such a dynamic play maker

[sullim4]

5 hours ago, ControllerOfPlanetX said:

So much for the Tic-Tac-Dough defense...

 

I hear Thom McKee wants the job next.

[billsfan89]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wow, that makes sense. 

 

1) Take the DC who took you to 3 straight playoff appearances, #2, #3, #2 defense. 

2) Lose Judon in FA and Peters to an ACL (among other injuries)

3) Drop the offense from #13 (18) to #27 (26) in offensive turnovers, dropping the D from 3rd in the league for opponents drive start to 10th

4) The offense decreases almost as much in rank (from #1 to #7 to #17)

5) Fire the DC

 

Not sure it will help them, but, Harbaugh has been the Ravens HC since 2008 with a W/L record of 137-88, so he's earned the benefit of the doubt I guess

 

Be interesting if they keep Roman

 

 

It has to be something else. I don't think you can logically make a case that one down year on defense is reason to can a coordinator. It's not even his worst season with this defense (in 2015 the Raven's were 24th in defense compared to 19th this season). It has to be some sort of professional disagreement with the organization. 

[MJS]

4 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Most Bills fans probably feel that way, but it's an overreaction IMO. Roman wouldn't be developing Josh. He'd give Josh a consistent running game, though.

Roman is seriously limited in his ability to scheme and call passing plays. No thanks.

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Their defense was terrible 

Their defense was on IR.

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, JK Fan said:

Martindale took the bullet for Harbaugh.  It is just a matter of time now for Harbaugh.  Lamar as your QB is not a winning formula going forward.

 

If Baltimore fire John Harbaugh they deserve everything they get.

[GunnerBill]

I can understand why a lot of people are shocked by this. I am less so. I think it comes down to the fact Don Martindale is a dinosaur running an antiquated blitz heavy defensive scheme best suited to the NFL of 15 years ago. His contemporaries - Chuck Pagano, Mike Smith, Mike Nolan, Rex Ryan have already fallen by the wayside. 

 

It just isn't a defense that really suits the way the league is played on offense now. The way to play defense now is not to sell out for a big play on D but is to focus on preventing the big play on offense. To make those blitz heavy schemes effective now you really need the horses (Tampa run a similar scheme successfully but are stacked in the front 7) and while Baltimore have undoubtedly been hurt by injuries this year if I was in Harbaugh's shoes I would be trying to move to a more sustainable, less star driven, more modern NFL defense. 

[GETTOTHE50]

5 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

disagree.  
I don’t think Roman would know what to do with a real QB. 

 

Kap, Ty-rod and now Lamar.  
Alex Smith?   Who was never a downfield passer IIRC. 

Roman is a poor man’s shanahan. Good to great running game but can’t call or develop passing plays. 

5 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

If Frazier leaves ( which I doubt ),  I would bring this guy here. He can coach. I’m really shocked that they haven’t fired Harbaugh. Guy hasn’t done ***** since winning the SB with Flacco

He’s probably got about 2-3 years left depending on Lamar’s development. If LJs progression or quality of play drops, then he will probably be gone and replaced with a ‘offensive minded-coach’. especially if they pay LJ big money

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

disagree.  
I don’t think Roman would know what to do with a real QB. 

 

Kap, Ty-rod and now Lamar.  
Alex Smith?   Who was never a downfield passer IIRC. 

 

Greg Roman is the guy you hire to get maximum offensive production with a limited passer. He is the best run game coordinator in the entire NFL - and yes - I include Shanahan in that. He is one of the most creative coaches in football. People don't associate creativity with running game so he doesn't get the credit he deserves IMO. But his running game is so complex and so multiple and puts defenses in so many binds - especially when he can operate it with a mobile QB. 

 

You are right though. He is not the man you want coordinating an offense where your main weapon is an elite passing Quarterback. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

7 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Thats a bit bold IMO.

 

Lamar is still a good QB.

 

He has got flaws for sure, but he is such a dynamic play maker

He’s a JAG. 

 

the Ravens had a LEGIT top 5 defense when 🤢 he won the MVP. 

 

Joe Flacco or Trent Dilfer ring a bell?

4 seasons. 4. He still has FLAWS. 
 

No QB is perfect (wait) but after 4 years he is still a guy who isn’t a top 10 passer.  
 

Does he thread a needle? 
Will he take the risk or be like Tyrod and mostly pass to wide open receivers?

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce

[Rochesterfan]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I can understand why a lot of people are shocked by this. I am less so. I think it comes down to the fact Don Martindale is a dinosaur running an antiquated blitz heavy defensive scheme best suited to the NFL of 15 years ago. His contemporaries - Chuck Pagano, Mike Smith, Mike Nolan, Rex Ryan have already fallen by the wayside. 

 

It just isn't a defense that really suits the way the league is played on offense now. The way to play defense now is not to sell out for a big play on D but is to focus on preventing the big play on offense. To make those blitz heavy schemes effective now you really need the horses (Tampa run a similar scheme successfully but are stacked in the front 7) and while Baltimore have undoubtedly been hurt by injuries this year if I was in Harbaugh's shoes I would be trying to move to a more sustainable, less star driven, more modern NFL defense. 

 

Martindale came up in the ranks learning and following those guys.  Baltimore has run that type of scheme forever and you are absolutely correct that it is falling by the wayside and they need to find a modern defense.  
 

I will be interested if this means they go outside the organization and bring in someone with a different background.  This is not something they do as an organization often, but they have brought in coaches like Roman when needed.

 

Martindale had it tough because of the injuries on the back end meant you could not effectively attack with the front 7.  The loss of Judon (who was their do it all) also hurt - he was their emotional and physical leader.

I personally would not want him on my coaching staff as a DC, but if you need a LB coach or a guy that can help scheme up an attacking defense for a few plays to break some tendencies- he would be a helpful guy in a suited role.

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

It has to be something else. I don't think you can logically make a case that one down year on defense is reason to can a coordinator. It's not even his worst season with this defense (in 2015 the Raven's were 24th in defense compared to 19th this season). It has to be some sort of professional disagreement with the organization. 

 

Don Pees was the defensive coordinator in 2015.  He was not fired.

Martindale was with the Ravens, but just as linebackers coach, not DC

 

I dunno about "logic", but sure - coordinators are canned for down years (heck, for a few bad games!) all the time in the NFL.  It doesn't have to be logical to happen.  It's called "having a fall guy"

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

If Frazier leaves ( which I doubt ),  I would bring this guy here. He can coach. I’m really shocked that they haven’t fired Harbaugh. Guy hasn’t done ***** since winning the SB with Flacco

 

Hard "No".  Martindale and Frazier do not use the same defensive scheme.  It would be a rebuild defensively to bring someone like Martindale in, like dismantling our #4 Schwartz led defense to re-boot it to Wrecks Ryan's specifications.

 

If by "hasn't done *****" you mean "went through the transition from an aging franchise QB to a new draftee with only one losing season, and went to the playoffs 4 times while winning", OK, but that's not the usual definition.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

14 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Yes.  I dont think Lamar is a good QB.  He wouldnt even be as good as he was without the Roman system.  On the flipside, Roman probably doesnt look that good without a QB like Lamar either.

Stephen A. Smith was saying like two days ago that he'd still take Lamar over Allen.

I want what he's smoking. Wow 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Stephen A. Smith was saying like two days ago that he'd still take Lamar over Allen.

I want what he's smoking. Wow 

Stephen A is an A bsolute  loudmouth 

If you have to YELL to make a point.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Stephen A. Smith was saying like two days ago that he'd still take Lamar over Allen.

I want what he's smoking. Wow 

 

Wasn't Allen leading in the pro bowl voting until players and coaches voted?

 

So evidently, Stephen A. Smith is not alone in his opinion.

 

Incorrect in his judgement (in both our views), but not alone in his opinion at all.

 

11 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Their defense was terrible 

 

Their defenders were either playing for someone else and not adequately replaced, or on IR

Team jumping from 11 to 18 INTs didn't help

 

Offense dropping from 7 to 17th in the league for points scored didn't help them either.

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wasn't Allen leading in the pro bowl voting until players and coaches voted?

 

So evidently, Stephen A. Smith is not alone in his opinion.

 

Incorrect in his judgement (in both our views), but not alone in his opinion at all.

as I recall Josh was leading 

 

Also.  Top 5 defense and ZERO guys named and

 

the AFC QB’s 2 of 3 are not in the post season 

 

 

Quarterback (3)

Justin Herbert, Patty Mahomes, and 

Lamar Jackson

 

maybe the figured the nominees would actually play in the PB and not preparing for the SB. 
 

Edited January 22, 2022 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

yes he was as I call Josh was leading 

 

Also.  Top 5 defense and ZERO guys named and

 

the AFC QB’s 2 of 3 are not in the post season 

 

 

Quarterback (3)

Justin Herbert, Patty Mahomes, and 

Lamar Jackson

 

maybe the figured the nominees would actually play in the PB and not preparing for the SB.

 

That last has never been a factor before

[That's No Moon]

Was he the one advocating going for two? Was he responsible for the dog crap offense they had at the end of the season? Did he personally injure all of the defensive backs? 

 

This is a desperate move of a coach who knows he's on the ropes after two disappointing seasons in a row

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

28 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That last has never been a factor before

1. The sarcasm should have been obvious

 

Is the pro bowl before or after the SB?

You will not see a QB in the playoffs EVER play in the Pro Bowl 

 

The Pro Bowl used to be played the week after the Super Bowl but is now the week before - players whose team are in the Super Bowl do not play.

 

So while I may have misworded my joke the point remains.  
 

 

Lamar is a joke. In 2 seasons he will be a backup, if that

 

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce

[wjag]

The DC was sacrificed on the alter of someone must take the blame.  Harbaugh was a riverboat gambler this year and the house won.  Simple as that.  He did not have the horses to compete and gambled like he did.

[Nextmanup]

Harbaugh is a great HC and Lamar is a great QB who can do things no one else can, including Josh Allen and Mahomes.

 

They'll get things sorted out.  The Ravens are historically a very well run organization.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

Lamar is a joke. In 2 seasons he will be a backup, if that

 

I disagree, and factually, so do a bunch of coaches and players who voted for Probowl (though to be fair, I disagree with the voting)

 

He has a specific skill set that the team has to be built to support.  This year, a lot of those pieces were on IR or missing.

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Lamar sucks IMO. Edit as a true QB. 

He is Tyrod Taylor 2.5. 

 

Sorry you and they are blind 

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

He has a specific skill set that the team has to be built to support.  This year, a lot of those pieces were on IR or missing.

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce

[Albany,n.y.]

16 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

honestly I think the backup Huntley is it? Can do just as good as or be a better passing than Lamar. 
 

 

The goal is to win games.  The Ravens fell apart after Lamar got hurt & Huntley replaced him.    

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

The goal is to win games.  The Ravens fell apart after Lamar got hurt & Huntley replaced him.    

Huntley also won games too. 
And he lost and now the DC is the scapegoat 

 

 

Because Huntley wasn’t a runner less guys were wide open 

[Albany,n.y.]

46 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

Huntley also won games too. 
And he lost and now the DC is the scapegoat 

 

 

Because Huntley wasn’t a runner less guys were wide open 

Game not games, Tyler Huntley won 1 game in 4 starts.  Thar's a win % of 25% with Huntley starting.  With Lamar Jackson the Ravens are 37-12 (75.5% win %) in 4 seasons.  Even though they weren't as good this year they were 7-5 (58.3%) with Lamar.  58.3% is much better than 25%.  

 

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Albany,n.y.

[BBills88]

If we lose Frazier, Do you think the Bills would bring him in as a DC?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

13 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Game not games, Tyler Huntley won 1 game in 4 starts.  Thar's a win % of 25% with Huntley starting.  With Lamar Jackson the Ravens are 37-12 (75.5% win %) in 4 seasons.  Even though they weren't as good this year they were 7-5 (58.3%) with Lamar.  58.3% is much better than 25%.  

 

 

and what says the Ravens would have won with Lamar?

 We don’t know.
 

no to overlook the fact that Lamar was injured AGAIN. 

 

So not only is he not a quality passer he’s a SOFT runner. 
 

Shades of RGIII

You can win games with a not so great Qb 

 

Didn’t Ty-rod have a winning record?

 

Sometimes a team carries the QB

Tyrod was so inept. We had to suffer with Peterman!!!!

 

[BuffaloBills1998]

17 hours ago, ganesh said:

Fores will get a HC job.  He did a good job in Miami other than bungling Tua's growth.

Define good job??

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Define good job??

like how close he got to the playoffs 

 

Tua is 3-0 against the Pats 

 ????

[BillsFan130]

9 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

He’s a JAG. 

 

the Ravens had a LEGIT top 5 defense when 🤢 he won the MVP. 

 

Joe Flacco or Trent Dilfer ring a bell?

4 seasons. 4. He still has FLAWS. 
 

No QB is perfect (wait) but after 4 years he is still a guy who isn’t a top 10 passer.  
 

Does he thread a needle? 
Will he take the risk or be like Tyrod and mostly pass to wide open receivers?

 

He's always going to have flaws.

 

But he also has skills that no QB in the history of the nfl has.

 

I am not saying he's an a elite QB.

 

But to say Huntley is as good as him is a massive stretch IMO.

[BuffaloBills1998]

1 hour ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

like how close he got to the playoffs 

 

Tua is 3-0 against the Pats 

 ????

Getting close doesn’t cut it. He failed to build an offense and to hire a competent offensive coordinator. He traded away team captains to make a point to changing the defensive schemes only to go back to the 2020 schemes because all the defensive players were complaining about the new defensive not working and that was during the 1-7 start. He alienated not only Tua but other players and his own coaching staff. And then wanted the same amount of power that Belichick gets in NE. Dudes a .500 level coach at best, and that’s not gonna get the job done. As they say, some guys are better coordinators than they are HC’s 

[QLBillsFan]

22 hours ago, jkeerie said:

Didn't see that coming.  He'll become some new coaches defensive coordinator I expect.

Gotta figure DaBoll will be in touch 💯

[QLBillsFan]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Define good job??

Flores did ok job. He agreed to drafting Tua over Herbert. Then quickly realized that was a bad decision. Coupled with reports that Tua is not a hard worker created bad relationship.
 

Went through OC’s every year. Had poor relationship with GM and then owner. Part of organization disfunction. Completely owned by Bills but very successful vs Pats. The guy has some good attributes but will have to have answers for his issues in Miami. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

4 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

But he also has skills that no QB in the history of the nfl has.

BS Josh is much better