Poyer & Hyde "Best Safety Tandem" in the NFL = No Pro Bowl (Another Snub Vent, Sorry)

[BigDingus]

Sorry, after hearing it YET AGAIN on Sunday, how does this even happen? I can't remember a Bills game in recent memory where the commentators, regardless of crew, point out the duo of Poyer & Hyde are the "BEST" safety duo in the NFL. They go on to praise them individually, their stats, their efficiency ratings, their leadership, etc., often even mentioning Poyer as an All-Pro candidate. 

So how, if EEEEVVVVERRRYYYOOONNEE under the sun notices this, do BOTH of them get left out? Maybe one missing out, ok... don't want 2 safeties from the same team, but BOTH? Ok, even then, I'm a Bills fan... I'm used to our great players being overlooked. But then I see the alternates...

 

1st team alternates? Nope

2nd team alternates? STILL NO?!

3rd team alternates? Oh yay... there's Poyer 😑

4th team alternates? Final insult... there's Hyde 😡

 

And that's completely ignoring the travesty of Josh's snub over players like Lamar... Pro Bowl selection process needs to change. Immediately. 

 

https://imgur.com/IP7nBZK

Edited December 29, 2021 by BigDingus

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

2 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

Sorry, after hearing it YET AGAIN on Sunday, how does this even happen? I can't remember a Bills game in recent memory where the commentators, regardless of crew, point out the duo of Poyer & Hyde are the "BEST" safety duo in the NFL. They go on to praise them individually, their stats, their efficiency ratings, their leadership, etc., often even mentioning Poyer as an All-Pro candidate. 

So how, if EEEEVVVVERRRYYYOOONNEE under the sun notices this, do BOTH of them get left out? Maybe one missing out, ok... don't want 2 safeties from the same team, but BOTH? Ok, even then, I'm a Bills fan... I'm used to our great players being overlooked. But then I see the alternates...

 

1st team alternates? Nope

2nd team alternates? STILL NO?!

3rd team alternates? Oh yay... there's Poyer 😑

4th team alternates? Final insult... there's Hyde 😡

 

And that's completely ignoring the travesty of Josh's snub over players like Lamar... Pro Bowl selection process needs to change. Immediately. 

 

https://imgur.com/IP7nBZK

The popular theory I have heard is that both guys are so great yet so interchangeable that it makes it hard to distinguish between the two. And that makes it hard to give any particular one guy an award of any kind. 

[Marv's Neighbor]

It's OK, we had our own pro bowl, last Sunday.  Hope for the final 2 now.

[HoofHearted]

Pro Bowl is almost solely based on popular opinion. We’re not a big market team. Don’t expect out guys to make it. I would be extremely surprised if our guys don’t make 1st or 2nd team All-Pro as these are voted on by their peers and coaches though.

[Utah John]

They're both great athletes, but neither one is particularly fast or strong.  They are fast and strong ENOUGH to be the glue that holds together the top defense in the league.  The reason is, I believe, their intelligence and their integrity.  And their experience.

 

But, the Pro Bowl votes for DBs go for INTs, just like Pro Bowl votes for defensive line and LBs go for sacks. Contributions toward "Best Defense" don't count.

[galept]

12 minutes ago, Utah John said:

They're both great athletes, but neither one is particularly fast or strong.  They are fast and strong ENOUGH to be the glue that holds together the top defense in the league.  The reason is, I believe, their intelligence and their integrity.  And their experience.

 

But, the Pro Bowl votes for DBs go for INTs, just like Pro Bowl votes for defensive line and LBs go for sacks. Contributions toward "Best Defense" don't count.

 

An unfortunate reality. I wouldn't feel so bad about it if it didn't bother Poyer so much.

[BillsPride12]

"I don't want Pro Bowl Players.  I want Super Bowl players"- Marv Levy 

[nucci]

Pro Bowl voting means nothing. Shouldn't get upset about it

[BuffaloBill]

Meh …. The probowl game has been a joke since it was first played. The selection process is even more ridiculous.

[TBBills]

Probowl doesn't even mean anything which is why I laugh when people defend average players with "but he made the probowl" 

 

This is a prime example of the probowl being garbage. 

 

Just look at the AFC QBs that made it... 2 of the 3 shouldn't even be in if it's about on field play.

Edited December 29, 2021 by TBBills

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

WTF is Imgr?

 

 

 

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

Being named 1st or 2nd team all pro carries far more weight than a Pro Bowl nod.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, TBBills said:

Probowl doesn't even mean anything which is why I laugh when people defend average players with "but he made the probowl" 

 

This is a prime example of the probowl being garbage. 

 

Just look at the AFC QBs that made it... 2 of the 3 shouldn't even be in if it's about on field play.

I definitely agree that Lamar making it is a joke, but I think Herbert and Mahomes are worthy.  You think Lamar and who else shouldn’t have made it?
 

comparing Mahomes to burrow, Mahomes has more yards, TDs and less INTs, more gwd and 4th qtr comebacks + 2 more W’s.

 

Imo, it should be herbert, Allen and Mahomes with Burrow barely getting the snub

 

 

[Big Turk]

Maybe it's because they are seen as a duo? Like both of them together play so well that neither of them gets the credit they deserve individually?

[T master]

If they go on to win a SB this will all be forgotten ...

[Shaw66]

You have to understand how the Bills defense works.  It's a total team defense.  It doesn't feature individuals; it features complex, precise teamwork.  So, you get a player like Tre White, who is regularly called one of the top five, while if he played for a team that truly put him on an island he might be called the best.   The Bills don't put him on an island all day, because there defense is played within a team concept.  White stands out less in this defense.  

 

Buddha Baker makes plays that shows up on TV a lot.  Hyde does the things that don't look flashy but that allow his teammates to do their jobs better.  Pro Bowl voters don't care about that kind of . 

 

It's also why so many fans here are unhappy with Edmunds.  He doesn't stand out like they want him to.  Same thing - he's playing in a team concept and, I think, doing the job he's supposed to be doing.  

 

So, what happens is that players on the Bills are underappreciated.  Poyer, White, Hyde all are underappreciated by the rest of the country, but not Bills fans.  Edmunds is underappreciated by the country AND Bills fans.  

 

Another one of those guys is Hughes.  Hughes is really good, maybe even outstanding, at doing his job.   His job on the defense does not require him to be a big, flashy pass rusher.  He's gotten his considerable athletic talent under control and plays completely within the system now.  He's a leader.  He's underappreciated.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

On 12/29/2021 at 10:00 AM, Shaw66 said:

You have to understand how the Bills defense works.  It's a total team defense.  It doesn't feature individuals; it features complex, precise teamwork.  So, you get a player like Tre White, who is regularly called one of the top five, while if he played for a team that truly put him on an island he might be called the best.   The Bills don't put him on an island all day, because there defense is played within a team concept.  White stands out less in this defense.  

 

Buddha Baker makes plays that shows up on TV a lot.  Hyde does the things that don't look flashy but that allow his teammates to do their jobs better.  Pro Bowl voters don't care about that kind of . 

 

It's also why so many fans here are unhappy with Edmunds.  He doesn't stand out like they want him to.  Same thing - he's playing in a team concept and, I think, doing the job he's supposed to be doing.  

 

So, what happens is that players on the Bills are underappreciated.  Poyer, White, Hyde all are underappreciated by the rest of the country, but not Bills fans.  Edmunds is underappreciated by the country AND Bills fans.  

 

Another one of those guys is Hughes.  Hughes is really good, maybe even outstanding, at doing his job.   His job on the defense does not require him to be a big, flashy pass rusher.  He's gotten his considerable athletic talent under control and plays completely within the system now.  He's a leader.  He's underappreciated.  

Very good points...which is why it drives me crazy when people cite PFF ratings as gospel with regards to our team lol  I dont think PFF does a great job quantifying individual defense player's contribution to our defensive scheme.

[Punching Bag]

If Bills had a dome they would be in Pro Bowl.

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Very good points...which is why it drives me crazy when people cite PFF ratings as gospel with regards to our team lol  I dont think PFF does a great job quantifying individual defense player's contribution to our defensive scheme.

 

Quoting PFF like gospel makes sense;  remember they were justification for lots of things like killing people for saying world is not flat.

[Shaw66]

25 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Very good points...which is why it drives me crazy when people cite PFF ratings as gospel with regards to our team lol  I dont think PFF does a great job quantifying individual defense player's contribution to our defensive scheme.

Right.  I always remember Kyle Williams' response when someone asked him about his rating on PFF or some other source that claimed to analyze film and rank player performance.   First, he said, "What's that?"   He didn't even know that anyone out there was doing anything like that.   So, the reporter explained it him.   Then he said something like, "That's ridiculous?   How do they know what the play was?  How do they know my assignment?  How do they know whether there was an audible?  How do they know whether we installed an adjustment to my assignment during the week."   Bottom line, he thought it was completely absurd that anyone outside the Bills organization could, in any meaningful way, evaluate and compare his performance to defensive tackles on other teams.   

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Right.  I always remember Kyle Williams' response when someone asked him about his rating on PFF or some other source that claimed to analyze film and rank player performance.   First, he said, "What's that?"   He didn't even know that anyone out there was doing anything like that.   So, the reporter explained it him.   Then he said something like, "That's ridiculous?   How do they know what the play was?  How do they know my assignment?  How do they know whether there was an audible?  How do they know whether we installed an adjustment to my assignment during the week."   Bottom line, he thought it was completely absurd that anyone outside the Bills organization could, in any meaningful way, evaluate and compare his performance to defensive tackles on other teams.   

 

I'm saying this as someone who's usually excited about developments in analytics...this is awesome and I get a kick out of the ultimate team player and instinct player being genuinely unaware of the eggheads trying to boil the game down to 1 vs 1 matchups.

[AlfaBill]

On 12/29/2021 at 8:00 AM, Shaw66 said:

You have to understand how the Bills defense works.  It's a total team defense.  It doesn't feature individuals; it features complex, precise teamwork.  So, you get a player like Tre White, who is regularly called one of the top five, while if he played for a team that truly put him on an island he might be called the best.   The Bills don't put him on an island all day, because there defense is played within a team concept.  White stands out less in this defense.  

 

Buddha Baker makes plays that shows up on TV a lot.  Hyde does the things that don't look flashy but that allow his teammates to do their jobs better.  Pro Bowl voters don't care about that kind of . 

 

It's also why so many fans here are unhappy with Edmunds.  He doesn't stand out like they want him to.  Same thing - he's playing in a team concept and, I think, doing the job he's supposed to be doing.  

 

So, what happens is that players on the Bills are underappreciated.  Poyer, White, Hyde all are underappreciated by the rest of the country, but not Bills fans.  Edmunds is underappreciated by the country AND Bills fans.  

 

Another one of those guys is Hughes.  Hughes is really good, maybe even outstanding, at doing his job.   His job on the defense does not require him to be a big, flashy pass rusher.  He's gotten his considerable athletic talent under control and plays completely within the system now.  He's a leader.  He's underappreciated.  

Edmonds doesn’t make plays that change the game or even a drive killer. He’s very meh. Poyer and Hyde do. That’s the difference. Edmonds is a below avg LB

[Big Turk]

They probably take votes away from each other since both have an equal case.

[nedboy7]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Right.  I always remember Kyle Williams' response when someone asked him about his rating on PFF or some other source that claimed to analyze film and rank player performance.   First, he said, "What's that?"   He didn't even know that anyone out there was doing anything like that.   So, the reporter explained it him.   Then he said something like, "That's ridiculous?   How do they know what the play was?  How do they know my assignment?  How do they know whether there was an audible?  How do they know whether we installed an adjustment to my assignment during the week."   Bottom line, he thought it was completely absurd that anyone outside the Bills organization could, in any meaningful way, evaluate and compare his performance to defensive tackles on other teams.   

 

Shaw you might be the most rational person on here.  Kyle's comment kinda also proves how most people on here cant evaluate the players in a meaningful way. 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, nedboy7 said:

 

Shaw you might be the most rational person on here.  Kyle's comment kinda also proves how most people on here cant evaluate the players in a meaningful way. 

I don't mean to demean anyone by this statement, and I know there are some exceptions, but I think there are very few people outside of the football establish who really appreciate what's going on on the field.   A geek here or there, guys who've played major D-I ball, maybe.  But most of us, no matter how much we've been fans and listened and watch, most don't have much of a clue.  For example:

 

1.  What Kyle said.

2.  That Buffalo Rumblings piece but how we don't really understand how detailed and regulated the officiating is.  

3.  I watched the last Monday night game on ESPN2 - the Mannings show.   Aaron Rodgers was their fourth quarter guest.  At some point, Peyton or Eli asks Aaron what he's looking for at this spot in the redzone, what kind of play he wants to be in, what are his keys.  And Rodgers goes on for multiple sentences talking in jargon that I barely recognize, describing routes and reads, and man, it was clear that he's thinking about the game at a level way, way beyond me.  And listen to the three of them talk about great plays or players - all this detailed knowledge stored away.  

4.  There was a play earlier this year, I think the Ravens:  One score game, team with lead has the ball something like third and four from the seven in the red zone.  TIme out, with 2:03 on the clock.  Losing team, back's to the wall, has three time outs left.  They come out on the field, line up for the third and four, and some guy on defense blasts across the line scrimmage way early.  Announcers are saying it's a bonehead play.   No, it turns out, it's not.  By giving up a five yard penalty, they gave away the first down.  But that meant that the last play before the two minute warning would be first down instead of third down.  That meant that if they could make four stops they'd get the ball back.   And it all worked and the Ravens came all the way down the field and Jackson failed on fourth down around the goal line.  

 

Turns out, if I have this right, the guy who jumped offside did the same thing two years ago in a similar situation.  In other words, it's a known set of circumstances that demands a certain kind response that seems certainly wrong.  I guess that's analytics.  

 

The point is that when you really look and think about it, you can see all sorts of things going on in the game that most of us rarely think about.  

Edited January 7, 2022 by Shaw66