Houston and Miami could have Deshaun Watson deal (update - no deal prior to trade deadline)

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

can you not see that the handling of this situation is a terrible look for Flores as a leader?

I don't think you didn't get the joke, but I might be lying.

[Patrick Duffy]

7 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

can you not see that the handling of this situation is a terrible look for Flores as a leader?

I would think it looks bad on the GM also. I believe I read somewhere Flores and the GM had some issues. Was something along the lines of Flores was forced to bench Fitz for Tua if I'm not mistaken. Also think it said Flores was banging the table for Herbert and GM picked Tua. Have no idea where to find the article, but it basically made it sound like Flores's input during draft were ignored.

 

Anyways, don't know how much truth it is to it if any, but either way not a good look. However, I'm 100%in love with their look myself lol

[YoloinOhio]

43 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

I would think it looks bad on the GM also. I believe I read somewhere Flores and the GM had some issues. Was something along the lines of Flores was forced to bench Fitz for Tua if I'm not mistaken. Also think it said Flores was banging the table for Herbert and GM picked Tua. Have no idea where to find the article, but it basically made it sound like Flores's input during draft were ignored.

 

Anyways, don't know how much truth it is to it if any, but either way not a good look. However, I'm 100%in love with their look myself lol

I was listening to a podcast today and they said it was corroborated that Flores never wanted Tua. He wanted Herbert but Ross made them take Tua. Not sure who Grier wanted. 

[Patrick Duffy]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I was listening to a podcast today and they said it was corroborated that Flores never wanted Tua. He wanted Herbert but Ross made them take Tua. Not sure who Grier wanted. 

Yeah that sounds about like what I remember reading. Also do you recall anything in regards to something about Flores input throughout that draft was "ignored" and supposedly Flores was a lil hot about it or whatnot?

 

Thought I also read something along those lines also...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Well I guess I would question why he signed that contract then.  

 

Exactly.   What we have to believe is that Watson was enthused enough about the Texans ownership and leadership on Sept 5, 2020 that he signed a long term extension, and only decided there were deal-breaking problems in January.  🤷‍♂️

 

4 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Its fairly similar here.  Might be state dependent but sexual assault is any form of unwanted sexual contact like fondling, touching, and can include rape.  Rape is unwanted penetration.

 

Yes, they vary widely from state to state

 

[JohnNord]

31 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I was listening to a podcast today and they said it was corroborated that Flores never wanted Tua. He wanted Herbert but Ross made them take Tua. Not sure who Grier wanted. 

I’ve heard this rumor but I don’t think it’s ever been corroborated or reported by a reliable source.  It seems like complete conjecture

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I’ve heard this rumor but I don’t think it’s ever been corroborated or reported by a reliable source.  It seems like complete conjecture

The podcast was the Buffalo rumblings with Joe Miller from Wednesday. He seemed to have corroborated it fwiw. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, JohnNord said:

That definitely would’ve been the better approach.  The problem is most of the press knows that Flores probably has the biggest say in football decision despite his title. 

 

How does the press know that Flores has the biggest say in football decisions, when it's rumored that Flores wanted Herbert over Tua and wanted to stay with Fitz instead of pulling him to start tua?

 

Personally I think Flores needs to channel a bit more Belicheck there.  "I already addressed that question - I won't discuss rumors.  Any questions about Buffalo?" and then just keep reiterating "I'm here to discuss Sunday's game.  Any questions about Sunday's game?"

[JohnNord]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Exactly.   What we have to believe is that Watson was enthused enough about the Texans ownership and leadership on Sept 5, 2020 that he signed a long term extension, and only decided there were deal-breaking problems in January.  🤷‍♂️

 

 

Yes, they vary widely from state to state

 

It’s a good point.  I don’t think he realized how bad Houston was going to suck in 2020.   After suffering through a 4-12 season, he thought he could force a trade and it really backfired on him

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

The podcast was the Buffalo rumblings with Joe Miller from Wednesday. He seemed to have corroborated it fwiw. 

I would hardly call Joe Miller a reliable source.  He’s a local content creator - not even a journalist who has never broken any news.  Like I said, it’s rumors that swirl around message board.

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

How does the press know that Flores has the biggest say in football decisions, when it's rumored that Flores wanted Herbert over Tua and wanted to stay with Fitz instead of pulling him to start tua?

 

Personally I think Flores needs to channel a bit more Belicheck there.  "I already addressed that question - I won't discuss rumors.  Any questions about Buffalo?" and then just keep reiterating "I'm here to discuss Sunday's game.  Any questions about Sunday's game?"

I would trust this guy over Joe Miller.  No reputable source has ever reported the rumor that Flores wanted Herbert. 
 

 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

can you not see that the handling of this situation is a terrible look for Flores as a leader?

It was a joke given Tua’s use of the double negative earlier in the week. Perhaps you missed that. 

[YoloinOhio]

20 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

It’s a good point.  I don’t think he realized how bad Houston was going to suck in 2020.   After suffering through a 4-12 season, he thought he could force a trade and it really backfired on him

I would hardly call Joe Miller a reliable source.  He’s a local content creator - not even a journalist who has never broken any news.  Like I said, it’s rumors that swirl around message board.

I would trust this guy over Joe Miller.  No reputable source has ever reported the rumor that Flores wanted Herbert. 
 

 

So they all wanted Tua?

Edited October 30, 2021 by YoloinOhio

[Hapless Bills Fan]

25 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

It’s a good point.  I don’t think he realized how bad Houston was going to suck in 2020.   After suffering through a 4-12 season, he thought he could force a trade and it really backfired on him

I would hardly call Joe Miller a reliable source.  He’s a local content creator - not even a journalist who has never broken any news.  Like I said, it’s rumors that swirl around message board.

I would trust this guy over Joe Miller.  No reputable source has ever reported the rumor that Flores wanted Herbert. 
 

 

 

"Senior NFL Writer for Outkick"? 

 

Help me understand why he's "da man" for you on Dolphins coverage.

[Rochesterfan]

41 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

"Senior NFL Writer for Outkick"? 

 

Help me understand why he's "da man" for you on Dolphins coverage.

 

Actually Armando covered the Dolphins for local newspapers for years and is the primary source WGR reaches out to for Dolphins news.

 

He is highly respected for his knowledge and sources within the organization and for several years is the top guy people get info from.

 

He was the Dolphins version of Mary Cabot in Cleveland, but this last year he left the paper to take on a broader role, but I think he has some disdain for Flores at this point.

 

I think Flores has rubbed a lot of the Miami media the wrong way and now when things are not so smooth - the reporters are like vultures circling a dead carcass.

 

 

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Yeah that sounds about like what I remember reading. Also do you recall anything in regards to something about Flores input throughout that draft was "ignored" and supposedly Flores was a lil hot about it or whatnot?

 

Thought I also read something along those lines also...

 

 

 

What I don't understand is how the owner would then bail on his guy after only 1 year essentially acknowledging he was wrong.  

 

No I don't think I believe this story.  And if you're the coach and GM why do you let that happen to your career?  

 

They may not have been 100% on Tua like the owner was.  But I'm betting they were 90%  

Edited October 30, 2021 by Big Blitz

[Rochesterfan]

49 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

"Senior NFL Writer for Outkick"? 

 

Help me understand why he's "da man" for you on Dolphins coverage.

 

From the Miami Herald - his Bio before he left in August of this year:

 

“Armando Salguero

Armando Salguero has covered the Miami Dolphins and the NFL since 1990, so longer than many players on the current roster have been alive and since many coaches on the team were in middle school. He was a 2016 APSE Top 3 columnist nationwide. He is one of 48 Pro Football Hall of Fame voters. He is an Associated Press All-Pro and awards voter. He’s covered Dolphins games in London, Berlin, Mexico City and Tokyo. He has covered 25 Super Bowls, the NBA Finals, and the Olympics.”

 

Not that he know everything, but he is “the man” for Dolphins Coverage and has been for the last decade or so.

 

Again does not mean he was right - just some credentials to ponder.

 

 

[Patrick Duffy]

14 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

 

What I don't understand is how the owner would then bail on his guy after only 1 year essentially acknowledging he was wrong.  

 

No I don't think I believe this story.  And if you're the coach and GM why do you let that happen to your career?  

 

They may not have been 100% on Tua like the owner was.  But I'm betting they were 90%  

Who knows really....In any event I'm perfectly happy with  these results those 3 decision makers have/are producing. lol

[Hapless Bills Fan]

30 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Actually Armando covered the Dolphins for local newspapers for years and is the primary source WGR reaches out to for Dolphins news.

 

He is highly respected for his knowledge and sources within the organization and for several years is the top guy people get info from.

 

He was the Dolphins version of Mary Cabot in Cleveland, but this last year he left the paper to take on a broader role, but I think he has some disdain for Flores at this point.

 

I think Flores has rubbed a lot of the Miami media the wrong way and now when things are not so smooth - the reporters are like vultures circling a dead carcass.

 

That would explain why that interview clip gave several of us Whaley "Privy" interview flashbacks.

 

Fair that Armando is highly respected and experienced and has sources, but if he's at "outs" with Flores, is he a good source there?

[Rochesterfan]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That would explain why that interview clip gave several of us Whaley "Privy" interview flashbacks.

 

Fair that Armando is highly respected and experienced and has sources, but if he's at "outs" with Flores, is he a good source there?

 

As I said - I can’t say and won’t speculate.  
 

He has been considered the best source for the team in the past for years.  I am not sure that changes just because the coach/team is starting to fall apart.

[Doc]

I'd take Salguero's word over anyone else. 

 

As for Flores, he's in a no-win situation.  Of course he wants Watson but can't say anything.  And I think he's a dead man walking.  The team is worse than the one he inherited, which shouldn't happen after 3 seasons and all the good picks and money they've had.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, Doc said:

I'd take Salguero's word over anyone else. 

 

As for Flores, he's in a no-win situation.  Of course he wants Watson but can't say anything.  And I think he's a dead man walking.  The team is worse than the one he inherited, which shouldn't happen after 3 seasons and all the good picks and money they've had.

 

I agree Flores is in a tough spot with the media, but I think the right move there is to "cowboy up".  Stand tall, smile, look them in the eye, call the reporters by name. 

 

Say something like "I am the head coach.  I'm here to answer your questions about our next football game in Buffalo this Sunday.  I can have no comment on player personnel matters.  We're playing the Bills in Buffalo in 2 days, I'll be happy to take questions about that."  and then just broken-record variants of the last sentence. 

 

It's really his demeanor, more than anything, which doesn't play well - the defensive posture clutching the edges of the podium, the hat shading his eyes, his eyes looking off to the side, his shoulders slumping. 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

How does the press know that Flores has the biggest say in football decisions, when it's rumored that Flores wanted Herbert over Tua and wanted to stay with Fitz instead of pulling him to start tua?

 

Personally I think Flores needs to channel a bit more Belicheck there.  "I already addressed that question - I won't discuss rumors.  Any questions about Buffalo?" and then just keep reiterating "I'm here to discuss Sunday's game.  Any questions about Sunday's game?"

 

They are rumors.  No way to know what's true unless its the horses mouth.  Nix and Whaley really wanted Wilson but thought he would be there later.  Story came out after Wilson made a super bowl.  Whaley really wanted every good QB that was drafted.  Stories came out after they shown to be good.

 

I don't buy any of that.  Want the QB then get the QB.  Don't pass the QB then claim he was wanted with some excuse as to why they weren't taken AFTER they light up the league.

 

Maybe its true maybe its not but the sports media, most media really, puts out more garbage than truth.

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

They are rumors.  No way to know what's true unless its the horses mouth.  Nix and Whaley really wanted Wilson but thought he would be there later.  Story came out after Wilson made a super bowl.  Whaley really wanted every good QB that was drafted.  Stories came out after they shown to be good.

 

I don't buy any of that.  Want the QB then get the QB.  Don't pass the QB then claim he was wanted with some excuse as to why they weren't taken AFTER they light up the league.

 

Maybe its true maybe its not but the sports media, most media really, puts out more garbage than truth.

 

Nix really did want Wilson but thought he would last another round. 

 

On Tua.... it doesn't matter whether it is Flores or Grier.... the owner decided on Tua. Simple as that. 

[Rochesterfan]

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I agree Flores is in a tough spot with the media, but I think the right move there is to "cowboy up".  Stand tall, smile, look them in the eye, call the reporters by name. 

 

Say something like "I am the head coach.  I'm here to answer your questions about our next football game in Buffalo this Sunday.  I can have no comment on player personnel matters.  We're playing the Bills in Buffalo in 2 days, I'll be happy to take questions about that."  and then just broken-record variants of the last sentence. 

 

It's really his demeanor, more than anything, which doesn't play well - the defensive posture clutching the edges of the podium, the hat shading his eyes, his eyes looking off to the side, his shoulders slumping. 

 

This X 1000%.

 

The way he is acting the refusing to look the reporters in the eye.  The repeated grasping at the podium and hiding his eyes - all scream lies.  If you can’t/don’t want to address the rumors- at least stand there and be honest - most media will at least respect that and move on a bit faster.

 

His posture and actions invited more questions because it just looked like he was not telling the truth.  The pauses - the double talk - the aggressive repeating of the questions - they all scream there is something else here - let’s dig at it.

 

Even when McDermott was getting grilled with the uncomfortable COVID questions - the way he would respond (even when he would give no real answer) made it less of an issue.  This is an internal discussion - we believe the players have a choice - we provide info and let the choose - etc. No real response, but he answered them took the next question with them and moved forward.

 

 

[JohnNord]

10 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

As I said - I can’t say and won’t speculate.  
 

He has been considered the best source for the team in the past for years.  I am not sure that changes just because the coach/team is starting to fall apart.

 

No doubt - Armando was a top Dolphins reporter for years and still has a Miami press credential.  Not sure why he left to work for an alt-outlet like Outkick.  
 

Who knows the truth behind the Miami situation?  The only thing we know is that this press conference was not the best look for Flores or anyone in the organization 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[YoloinOhio]

How can you trust anyone within the dolphins org to make the right decision here?

[UKBillFan]

Peter King said on Sky in the UK that he was not expecting any major trades.

[Scott7975]

This trade is not going to happen.  Miami is a dumpster fire but I don't think they are that stupid.

[boater]

Move along folks, nothing to see here. Move along.

 

No way the Dolphins give up the draft capital required to get DW. Especially since the the 2021 starting status of DW is in question.

 

I kinda hope I'm wrong. If the Fins gave up the quan (three first round picks) needed to get DW, they'd be a hollow team for years.

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, Gene1973 said:

They drated Tua over Herbert...

 

Yeah that's pretty bad even without hindsight.  I don't watch college ball and have no idea how good or bad QBs are going into the draft.  I do know that Tua is a small guy and had a pretty bad injury so that would have red flagged me without knowing anything.

[mannc]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I do know that Tua is a small guy and had a pretty bad injury so that would have red flagged me without knowing anything.

It’s really that simple. No need to overthink it.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

iMpRoVeMeNt

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[RobbRiddick]

This is how I imagine these months of 'negotiations' to look like

 

' 

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

That Front Office and Coaching Staff in Miami has to be fired at the end of the season - right?

 

I mean basically they have been infighting about who drafted Tua versus who wanted Herbert.

 

Then the entire Watson fiasco.

 

I know the owner is mostly to blame, but you are not firing him - so is it reboot time?

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[ColoradoBills]

So can the mods now lock this tread?

[Process]

I highly doubt a trade was ever as close as the media made it seem. It's been very obvious that he is not tradeable at this point.

[JohnNord]

Just now, Process said:

I highly doubt a trade was ever as close as the media made it seem. It's been very obvious that he is not tradeable at this point.

I disagree.  I think it went down the way it’s been reported.  Miami wanted contingencies which Houston was unwilling or couldn’t produce.  Why else would they not shoot down the rumor like Carolina did?