\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 https://apnews.com/article/miami-building-collapses-25ee9ff94dd07d2a0ae3da742a6cb8dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 Wow...anyone who survived that is incredibly lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Avenger Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 That looks like when Israeli forces were leveling buildings in Gaza a few weeks ago.... You can only hope that many of those units were either empty or owned by snowbirds who had gone north for summer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 Just now, The Avenger said: That looks like when Israeli forces were leveling buildings in Gaza a few weeks ago.... You can only hope that many of those units were either empty or owned by snowbirds who had gone north for summer.... The article said there were plenty of people in there. And I think the flashes you see at the top are people taking pictures with their phones of what just happened. It's definitely sketchy, though. I've never seen a building just collapse like that on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Man Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 How does something like that happen in this day and age? Has to be some serious negligence somewhere behind this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 Terrible. That looked like one of those planned demolitions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T&C Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 I watched a video on a news channel a bit ago... an engineer mentioned that it, being so close to the ocean, could have had compromised girders/foundation due to the constant saltwater, 40 years or so worth. Either way, this is a tragic event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Avenger Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Metal Man said: How does something like that happen in this day and age? Has to be some serious negligence somewhere behind this. In things I've seen about other building collapses around the word, and it usually comes down to the architect not properly calculating the load or forces at work, or the construction not following the pans correctly in in how it was constructed or the materials used (i.e. - improper concrete). There is also a chance that things like wind and salt air were more corrosive than anticipated and nobody designed/built for that. Given that this was built in Miami in the 80s when there was a huge construction boom and it was probably impossible to oversee everything, my money is on someone cutting corners in the construction and it managed to hold up for 40 years before suffering a catastrophic failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Man Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, The Avenger said: In things I've seen about other building collapses around the word, and it usually comes down to the architect not properly calculating the load or forces at work, or the construction not following the pans correctly in in how it was constructed or the materials used (i.e. - improper concrete). There is also a chance that things like wind and salt air were more corrosive than anticipated and nobody designed/built for that. Given that this was built in Miami in the 80s when there was a huge construction boom and it was probably impossible to oversee everything, my money is on someone cutting corners in the construction and it managed to hold up for 40 years before suffering a catastrophic failure. This all makes sense and I'm sure it will be some flavor of your thoughts. I would just hope that over the years inspections would start to show some signs of failure in situations like these. Regardless it is a pretty sad story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 21 minutes ago, Metal Man said: This all makes sense and I'm sure it will be some flavor of your thoughts. I would just hope that over the years inspections would start to show some signs of failure in situations like these. Regardless it is a pretty sad story. I'm not sure, but I don't think there's any requirement for owners of high rise buildings to hire qualified inspectors for structural inspections I'm pretty sure city/state building inspectors have all they can do to handle new construction and complaints, they don't have any kind of regular schedule Some info on rescues/accounted for/missing: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/24/us/miami-surfside-building-collapse.html Quote About 35 people were rescued from the building, and two were pulled from the rubble, Ray Jadallah, a Miami-Dade Fire Rescue assistant fire chief, said at the news conference Officials have accounted for 53 people who lived in the building but 99 people remained unaccounted for by mid-afternoon, said Rachel Johnson, a spokeswoman for the mayor of Miami-Dade County. She stressed that the numbers continued to shift as the authorities figure out how many people were actually in the building overnight. Quote Charles W. Burkett, the mayor of Surfside, told the “Today” show on NBC that dogs had been searching for people trapped under the rubble since 2 a.m. “Apparently when the building came down, it pancaked,” he said. “So there’s just not a lot of voids that they’re finding or seeing from the outside.” He said at least 15 families were being relocated to hotels. He added that it was unclear how stable the rest of the building was. Governor DeSantis said engineers would be part of the investigation into what caused the building to collapse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Avenger Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 27 minutes ago, Metal Man said: This all makes sense and I'm sure it will be some flavor of your thoughts. I would just hope that over the years inspections would start to show some signs of failure in situations like these. Regardless it is a pretty sad story. It's a terrible story and one that we don't see too often in this country, fortunately - I have seen stories about similar collapses in third world countries and the devastation is incredible. If there are inspections my guess is that that they wouldn't tell you much unless you could see things like cracks or concrete erosion. If floor joist connections were made improperly, insufficient rebar was used in concrete slabs, concrete was too porous to support designed load you probably wouldn't be able to detect such things, even if you did a pretty thorough structural inspection. Sadly, they only learn about these things after a tragedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 They were coming up on their 40 year inspection I heard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 Holy crap! How does that happen? Sinkhole of some sorts? 2 hours ago, LeGOATski said: The article said there were plenty of people in there. And I think the flashes you see at the top are people taking pictures with their phones of what just happened. It's definitely sketchy, though. I've never seen a building just collapse like that on its own. That close to water, how is foundation supported? 6 minutes ago, The Avenger said: It's a terrible story and one that we don't see too often in this country, fortunately - I have seen stories about similar collapses in third world countries and the devastation is incredible. If there are inspections my guess is that that they wouldn't tell you much unless you could see things like cracks or concrete erosion. If floor joist connections were made improperly, insufficient rebar was used in concrete slabs, concrete was too porous to support designed load you probably wouldn't be able to detect such things, even if you did a pretty thorough structural inspection. Sadly, they only learn about these things after a tragedy. It held for 40 years. Has to be something way underground? Why I mentioned sinkhole? Is that possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Holy crap! How does that happen? Sinkhole of some sorts? That close to water, how is foundation supported? It held for 40 years. Has to be something way underground? Why I mentioned sinkhole? Is that possible? Butterfly effect from Pegula's drilling 🙁 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/7778631002 Collapsed Miami condo had been sinking into Earth as early as the 1990s, researchers say 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 24 minutes ago, TBBills said: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/7778631002 Collapsed Miami condo had been sinking into Earth as early as the 1990s, researchers say I was just coming here to link this Here's the direct link, not through google: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2021/06/24/building-collapse-miami-structure-had-been-sinking-into-earth/7778631002/ That doesn't mean the sinking is responsible for the collapse, of course, and when everything is investigated it wouldn't surprise me if there were a "storm" of interacting factors - maybe sinking combined with a structural design where floor supports could be "popped" off the support beams somehow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaoulDuke79 Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 I'm used to seeing things like this in poorer parts of the world. I wouldn't expect it in a first world country. Also, didn’t a bridge collapse down there a few years ago as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said: I'm used to seeing things like this in poorer parts of the world. I wouldn't expect it in a first world country. Also, didn’t a bridge collapse down there a few years ago as well? That and zombie attacks, this is Florida baby! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 1 hour ago, RaoulDuke79 said: I'm used to seeing things like this in poorer parts of the world. I wouldn't expect it in a first world country. Also, didn’t a bridge collapse down there a few years ago as well? What we learned today, kids, is that Florida is not a 1st world country. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: What we learned today, kids, is that Florida is not a 1st world country. It did stand for 40 years. Edited June 25, 2021 by ExiledInIllinois Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 14 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: It did stand for 40 years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 14 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: It did stand for 40 years. No matter. It should never collapse. Code in place, if abided by, would prevent it. The Miami construction industry is notorious for corruption. The latest terminal at their airport was held up twice as the contracting company refused to bribe the construction group. I have no idea what caused this, but I do know that the building industry in Miami is as corrupt as can be, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was found to not be to code. 3 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 14 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Holy crap! How does that happen? Sinkhole of some sorts? That close to water, how is foundation supported? It held for 40 years. Has to be something way underground? Why I mentioned sinkhole? Is that possible? The Romans are not impressed 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Salt air, over time, can seriously weaken structural steel. That along with the foundation issues may have brought it down. The building inspection time periods seem to be totally inadequate given the climate and sub-soil situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 2 hours ago, Pete said: The Romans are not impressed Romans, Egyptians, Greeks and several other ancient civilizations were unbelievable experts at engineering. Roman concrete strengthens over time. https://www.zmescience.com/science/geology/roman-concrete-seawater-043432/ 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 I've read that there are still 99 people unaccounted for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back2Buff Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 12 minutes ago, frostbitmic said: I've read that there are still 99 people unaccounted for. Unfortunately, it's 159 now. Surfside building collapse latest: 159 still unaccounted for as death toll rises (msn.com) Clearly the ground underneath the building was not stable, and looks like maybe there was a deep sink hole or something that gave away causing everything to move just enough for it to come crumbling down. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Avenger Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 I was watching an old episode of this season's Lego Masters (I am several episodes behind) and I see the next challenge will be doing 4' towers that they try and knock down via a simulated earthquake. My immediate thought was that Fox must be so relieved that the episode had already already aired - can you imagine broadcasting a show about knocking down Lego buildings in the aftermath of this tragedy in Florida? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said: Romans, Egyptians, Greeks and several other ancient civilizations were unbelievable experts at engineering. Roman concrete strengthens over time. https://www.zmescience.com/science/geology/roman-concrete-seawater-043432/ Just think... Will be living in the sea sooner than later with regard to climate change. This may come in handy! 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 2 hours ago, The Avenger said: I was watching an old episode of this season's Lego Masters (I am several episodes behind) and I see the next challenge will be doing 4' towers that they try and knock down via a simulated earthquake. My immediate thought was that Fox must be so relieved that the episode had already already aired - can you imagine broadcasting a show about knocking down Lego buildings in the aftermath of this tragedy in Florida? It would probably bring more views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 8 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: Romans, Egyptians, Greeks and several other ancient civilizations were unbelievable experts at engineering. Roman concrete strengthens over time. https://www.zmescience.com/science/geology/roman-concrete-seawater-043432/ That's probably because they didn't award the contract to the cheapest bidder. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 9 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: Romans, Egyptians, Greeks and several other ancient civilizations were unbelievable experts at engineering. Roman concrete strengthens over time. https://www.zmescience.com/science/geology/roman-concrete-seawater-043432/ Awesome article. Roman cement had calcium-aluminum-silicate-hydrate while modern Portland cement only has calcium-silicate-hydrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 20 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Awesome article. Roman cement had calcium-aluminum-silicate-hydrate while modern Portland cement only has calcium-silicate-hydrate. Indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 6 hours ago, Doc said: That's probably because they didn't award the contract to the cheapest bidder. It only gets stronger when it is exposed to seawater. Great idea, let's build and live in the sea! 😏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 12 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: It only gets stronger when it is exposed to seawater. Great idea, let's build and live in the sea! 😏 Well this condo was right by the beach... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 32 minutes ago, TBBills said: Well this condo was right by the beach... Yeah... But even the strongest concrete isn't escaping that hole it's been sinking in for 40 years... 🙃😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaoulDuke79 Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 6 hours ago, TBBills said: Well this condo was right by the beach... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 20 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Just think... Will be living in the sea sooner than later with regard to climate change. This may come in handy! 😉 Are you forgetting you don't believe in climate change? Since you argue against everything I can see how you'd lose track. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 (edited) Engineer Warned of ‘Major Structural Damage’ at Florida Condo Complex A consultant in 2018 urged the managers to repair cracked columns and crumbling concrete. The work was finally about to get underway when the building collapsed. nytimes.com/2021/06/26/us/miami-building-collapse-investigation.html Yikes. Both the management board and original designer / engineer are in some real trouble here... Edited June 26, 2021 by Heitz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 (edited) High priced place to live and yet 2 years to even begin repairs... Now they are being sued by everyone that lived there and family of the deceased. Maybe when you get professionals telling you to do something immediately they won't wait a few years. Same thing happened with the bridges in this country until some of them collapsed. Edited June 26, 2021 by TBBills 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.