Canceling student loans

[Big Blitz]

"Tuition costs mysteriously rise at all public universities by 5-7%"

 

1 hour ago, Doc said:

This was accelerated by Obama's Admin in 2010.  The government getting into the student loan market told colleges and universities that they could keep increasing tuition and the government would pay for it.  When do they get vilified?

 

--More at 11:00 

 

Exactly right Doc.  

 

I asked earlier about how does this address outlandish tuition increases the last 10 years and the only answer you heard was "well what have Republicans done to reign in costs?"

 

Uh huh.  The free market never fails - it only gets ***t on every time it hits a downturn - and by the way, we've agreed as a society what Government *interventions* are acceptable and useful.

 

This isn't one of them.  More hand outs or *free* money isn't one of them.  

 

Because of Covid tho folks.  It's all because of Covid.  And Russia.  

[aristocrat]

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by aristocrat

[Andy1]

I’m generally not crazy about the loan forgiveness but, in the big picture government money has gone to worse things and no one blinks an eye. For 20 years congress spent trillions on a pile of sand in Afghanistan and Iraq. Billions go to corporate welfare, corporate bailouts and tax breaks for millionaires but that ok because they are the “important people.” At least this money is helping young Americans who need it.

[OrangeBills]

10 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

I’m generally not crazy about the loan forgiveness but, in the big picture government money has gone to worse things and no one blinks an eye. For 20 years congress spent trillions on a pile of sand in Afghanistan and Iraq. Billions go to corporate welfare, corporate bailouts and tax breaks for millionaires but that ok because they are the “important people.” At least this money is helping young Americans who need it.

 

So basically, your argument is...nothing matters

  

This is exactly what the Sino-Russian Psy Op was supposed to get Western Culture to....

 

It didn't need much of a nudge...

[Andy1]

4 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

 

So basically, your argument is...nothing matters

  

This is exactly what the Sino-Russian Psy Op was supposed to get Western Culture to....

 

It didn't need much of a nudge...

I wouldn’t say that. I’d rather my tax dollars go to help young Americans start their life than send it to Iraq or Afghanistan, or have it sent to help oil companies, Wall Street, etc. Both parties spend money on priorities of their supporters. That’s politics in America. The problem is, someday, someone is going to need to pay the bill and both parties seem to be in denial of that. If I was king, government wouldn’t spend money on any of it. That would surely start a revolution though and I’d get overthrown.

[RiotAct]

Desperation and dementia… a scary combination.

 

Will I get a check for the ~7k in student loans I paid back from 2010-2012?

[LeviF]

6 hours ago, ALF said:

With a booming economy for Trumps first 3 years , (2020 won't count due to covid) did the national debt go down with massive tax cuts to the rich and big business ?  Helping student debt which has excessive interest is right.

If usury is wrong in this type of loan in which other types of loans is it right?

[Big Blitz]

Of course it is.....do we really think this is an overall net positive for America 

 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

Spot on:

 

 

.....However, most borrowers took out student loans quite voluntarily, and there are several strong arguments against relief:

 

1. Fairness. Rewarding those who are not paying their loans is unfair to people who have worked hard — and sacrificed — to pay off their own student debt. It is also unfair to people who made the choice not to attend college — often because of the prospect of debt — who must now pay, as taxpayers, to subsidize others’ student loans, even though they may have their own debts (such as mortgage and car payments).

 

2. Inflation. Giving out $10,000 in loan relief to millions of American borrowers, plus continuing a pause in student loan repayments for others, will increase the amount of money available to consumers in the economy, creating more inflationary pressures and undoing whatever good the recent so-called “Inflation Reduction Act” might have hoped to achieve. The rest of society will pay higher prices for goods and services, hence subsidizing student loan borrowers indirectly through inflation.

 

3. Moral Hazard. Bailouts create the expectation of more bailouts in the future, distorting the incentives of future borrowers and removing the awareness of risk that theoretically guides rational decisions in the marketplace. Once the credibility of the student loan market — and other capital markets — is eroded enough, people begin to lose faith in economic institutions and to abandon traditional habits of frugality and hard work that are necessary for any free market economy to survive and to grow.

 

4. No Academic Reform. There is nothing in Biden’s impending proposal that will reform the way colleges and universities charge for higher education.

 

5. Executive Usurpation. The president lacks the power to make sweeping decisions about federal government spending or debt. The only way he can hope to forgive $10,000 per borrower — for incomes up to $125,000, according to early reports — is through the kind of aggressive executive action that President Barack Obama introduced into immigration policy. Rather than working with Congress, and making compromises on reforms to higher education, Biden is mocking the separation of powers.

 

6. Banana Republic. The hallmark of Third World banana republics is that demagogues promise massive redistributions of wealth to ensure that they are reelected.

 

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/08/24/pollak-bidens-student-loan-bailout-adds-insult-to-working-class-injury/

[Buffarukus]

 

40 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Spot on:

 

 

.....However, most borrowers took out student loans quite voluntarily, and there are several strong arguments against relief:

 

1. Fairness. Rewarding those who are not paying their loans is unfair to people who have worked hard — and sacrificed — to pay off their own student debt. It is also unfair to people who made the choice not to attend college — often because of the prospect of debt — who must now pay, as taxpayers, to subsidize others’ student loans, even though they may have their own debts (such as mortgage and car payments).

 

2. Inflation. Giving out $10,000 in loan relief to millions of American borrowers, plus continuing a pause in student loan repayments for others, will increase the amount of money available to consumers in the economy, creating more inflationary pressures and undoing whatever good the recent so-called “Inflation Reduction Act” might have hoped to achieve. The rest of society will pay higher prices for goods and services, hence subsidizing student loan borrowers indirectly through inflation.

 

3. Moral Hazard. Bailouts create the expectation of more bailouts in the future, distorting the incentives of future borrowers and removing the awareness of risk that theoretically guides rational decisions in the marketplace. Once the credibility of the student loan market — and other capital markets — is eroded enough, people begin to lose faith in economic institutions and to abandon traditional habits of frugality and hard work that are necessary for any free market economy to survive and to grow.

 

4. No Academic Reform. There is nothing in Biden’s impending proposal that will reform the way colleges and universities charge for higher education.

 

5. Executive Usurpation. The president lacks the power to make sweeping decisions about federal government spending or debt. The only way he can hope to forgive $10,000 per borrower — for incomes up to $125,000, according to early reports — is through the kind of aggressive executive action that President Barack Obama introduced into immigration policy. Rather than working with Congress, and making compromises on reforms to higher education, Biden is mocking the separation of powers.

 

6. Banana Republic. The hallmark of Third World banana republics is that demagogues promise massive redistributions of wealth to ensure that they are reelected.

 

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/08/24/pollak-bidens-student-loan-bailout-adds-insult-to-working-class-injury/

 

i agree with most of this especially the no real solution part. but i think people of a certain generation are truley blind to the futures bleak outlook as if "they" faced any sort of the challenges today. "i did it" "when i was your age" ect ect.

 

i talk to some of the older guys at work who routinely talk about how the new generation is lazy, weak, yadda. when i look at their youth. lets see, 1 person needed to work in a household with several kids. highschool education provided very good union supplied jobs..my father worked for 1 his ENTIRE life. cost of living was nothing, cars, house, ect. all easily attainable. now your homes have gone through the roof. thats great, if you got in cheap. your pensions still existed. good for you, good guaranteed retirement. it seems very simple to me. work 40 hrs and you get the american dream. that does not exist without something else today. college was sold as that.

 

so at what point do people say kids today are hopeless, school costs, housing costs, a twisted idea on energy and constant weather now virus fear, if not well financed to start, its pretty bleak. bootstraps aint enough! so what exactly would the right be for that isnt lase fair or directly beneficial to themselves in their circumstances? it is afterall your kids and grandkids. as a poster said the right isnt exactly pushing for positive changes to help..its all welfare to then..socialism ect ect. well if you wonder why so many kids are progressive/ communist ect, maybe it because they litterally see no hope in a system that had far surpassed a decent living or chance so might as well advocate burn it all down. theres not alot to lose.

 

at some point the right should realize pandering and lies to groups by the left is going to always be better then just being completely ignored and saying our policies might help you down the line, basically ignoring them. thats not a tactic that will gain voters even in the mess the left has created and sure as h#// is pushing people to accept the circumstances you outlined as they take the only thing on the table. the welfare for votes the left is offering.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Buffarukus

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, RiotAct said:

Desperation and dementia… a scary combination.

 

Will I get a check for the ~7k in student loans I paid back from 2010-2012?

No and that feeling of unfairness is why this will blow up in the Dems faces.  Throwing a bone to the progressives in hopes of increased youth turnout for the midterms.  All this policy is is a one-time cancellation program that leaves in tact the underlying structures that led to the problem in the first place.  Congress needs to get together to fix this to prevent more cancellation programs down the line.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

The same snake oil shills framing a past tax cut resulting in the government stealing less of your money a cost to the government are now framing abandoned repayment of borrowed money as “just going away”…

 

These crooks shouldn’t have authority to run a lemonade stand.  

[BillStime]

Cult still upset about the peasants getting pennies while the rich get richer; off our government 

 

Hilarious these idiots refuse to acknowledge it- the millionaires for billionaires purposely keeping us focused on attacking each other and not on them looting our treasury.

Edited August 25, 2022 by BillStime

[ALF]

10 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I see.  So you agree that the line that Trump ONLY cut taxes for the rich is a lie?  I know that's not what you said but it's pretty safe to say that's what you were insinuating.  

 

What group of people benefited the most from the doubling of the Standard Deduction?  Who did SALT hurt the most? 

 

 

40 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Cult still upset about the peasants getting Pennie’s while the rich just get richer; off our government 

 

 

[BillStime]

3 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

 

Cmon Alf - the cult doesn’t care about facts. They are focused solely on what their keepers tell them and most importantly —> owning the dems.

 

 

[BillStime]

🎯

 

Keep in mind - it’s not just Republicans abusing the PPP loan gimmick - Dems were in on it as well… that’s why Washington kept the forgiveness part quiet.

 

 

[aristocrat]

11 minutes ago, BillStime said:

🎯

 

Keep in mind - it’s not just Republicans abusing the PPP loan gimmick - Dems were in on it as well… that’s why Washington kept the forgiveness part quiet.

 

 

 

 

[BillStime]

Go Brandon go! 
 

 

 

 

Thanks Trump voters:

 

 

 

 

🎯

 

 

[LeviF]

18 minutes ago, BillStime said:

🎯

 

Keep in mind - it’s not just Republicans abusing the PPP loan gimmick - Dems were in on it as well… that’s why Washington kept the forgiveness part quiet.

 

 

This isn’t investing in students. This turns these loans into direct government payments to universities who are accountable to nobody in exchange for nothing. 

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, BillStime said:

Cult still upset about the peasants getting pennies while the rich get richer; off our government 

 

Hilarious these idiots refuse to acknowledge it- the millionaires for billionaires purposely keeping us focused on attacking each other and not on them looting our treasury.

 

 

Looks like I'm being looted 

 

 

[BillStime]

Keep ‘em stupid - it’s the GQP way:

 

 

[Backintheday544]

44 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Looks like I'm being looted 

 

 

It’s too bad you didn’t do more education in order to apply critical thinking before you post.

 

1. That’s not a CNBC study, that’s a National Taxpayer Union Foundation study. A right wing group

 

2. to call it a study is laughable. Their study is to take the projected cost and divide it by the total number of people who filed a return in 2019. It doesn’t take into account that many Americans don’t pay $2,000 in taxes. 
 

A better model to see what the average American will pay for this will take into account the disparity in the amount of taxes paid by each American. So if you were to look at what this will cost the average Joe American WalMart worker, it’s probably closer to a fraction of cent.

 

A couple pieces of advice:

 

1. read what you post

2. think to yourself who is writing this and why

3. understand math

 

If you can do this, then maybe you can join the rest of us as well informed taxpayers!

[OrangeBills]

Just now, Backintheday544 said:

It’s too bad you didn’t do more education in order to apply critical thinking before you post.

 

1. That’s not a CNBC study, that’s a National Taxpayer Union Foundation study. A right wing group

 

2. to call it a study is laughable. Their study is to take the projected cost and divide it by the total number of people who filed a return in 2019. It doesn’t take into account that many Americans don’t pay $2,000 in taxes. 
 

A better model to see what the average American will pay for this will take into account the disparity in the amount of taxes paid by each American. So if you were to look at what this will cost the average Joe American WalMart worker, it’s probably closer to a fraction of cent.

 

A couple pieces of advice:

 

1. read what you post

2. think to yourself who is writing this and why

3. understand math

 

If you can do this, then maybe you can join the rest of us as well informed taxpayers!

 

You are right.  ACTUAL tax-payers will pay MUCH MORE for this idiocy.

 

But again, Leftists have achieved the long-term goal of "nothing matters", so nothing matters

 

[Backintheday544]

5 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

 

You are right.  ACTUAL tax-payers will pay MUCH MORE for this idiocy.

 

But again, Leftists have achieved the long-term goal of "nothing matters", so nothing matters

 

yes the real taxpayers are left leaning since blue states pay the most Federal taxes:

[Coffeesforclosers]

Oh no, people in there 20s and 30s will have an easier time building wealth, buying houses, and raising kids. Anything but that.

 

[OrangeBills]

6 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

yes the real taxpayers are left leaning since blue states pay the most Federal taxes:

Yeah, that's not how this works, but that IS how Lefitsts gin themselves up to justify their inane proscriptions

 

 

 

[aristocrat]

 

 

[Backintheday544]

8 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

Yeah, that's not how this works, but that IS how Lefitsts gin themselves up to justify their inane proscriptions

 

 

 

Source? Data?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

16 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

yes the real taxpayers are left leaning since blue states pay the most Federal taxes:

 

im guess you have no clue, but you should educate yourself and on what elections would look like if only net taxpayers voted on how their money was spent. 

27 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

 

You are right.  ACTUAL tax-payers will pay MUCH MORE for this idiocy.

 

But again, Leftists have achieved the long-term goal of "nothing matters", so nothing matters

 

you can even see it in this thread… like the idiots that splash charts they don’t understand with shocking revelations like tax cuts don’t benefit people who don’t pay taxes, and instead benefit those paying all the taxes.  🙄 😂 

[BillStime]

35 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

 

You are right.  ACTUAL tax-payers will pay MUCH MORE for this idiocy.

 

But again, Leftists have achieved the long-term goal of "nothing matters", so nothing matters

 

 

So I know you apparently didn’t like states “shutting down” but why aren’t you upset about one of the greatest shift in wealth of our tax dollars going to the rich and famous through the forgiveness of their PPP loans?

[aristocrat]

13 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

So I know you apparently didn’t like states “shutting down” but why aren’t you upset about one of the greatest shift in wealth of our tax dollars going to the rich and famous through the forgiveness of their PPP loans?

Yes the ppp loans were bad. Your boy fauci cheered on the lockdowns that didn’t work and have made things worse.

[Irv]

Demented Biden botches another.  What a mess.  

[BillStime]

3 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

Yes the ppp loans were bad. Your boy fauci cheered on the lockdowns that didn’t work and have made things worse.

Let see - Fauci - who has worked for every POTUS since Nixon versus the garbage you get from Fox News and this guy: 

 

 

 

 

[aristocrat]

6 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Let see - Fauci - who has worked for every POTUS since Nixon versus the garbage you get from Fox News and this guy: 

 

 

 

 

so fauci, the lefts god, was wrong? Answer that 

[Matt_In_NH]

People taking loans to get degrees in things that dont have the payback is the problem.  The Federal Government and Universities have created a problem, the solution is there should be limits on loans depending on your major.   Just like when you get a mortgage, they look at your income to determine the amount of a loan you can get.  The solution is not an executive order adding 300 billion to our debt.   The lesson is you take a loan, you pay it back.  I bet people learn to think long and hard on future loans when one does not work out well.

 

People need to take responsibility...the government bailing them out is just bad.  And by EO vs congress is just terrible

Edited August 25, 2022 by Matt_In_NH

[Doc]

I just talked to my colleague this morning, who is a Dem.  He said he's never voting for a Dem again because of this.

 

 

9 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

so fauci, the lefts god, was wrong? Answer that 

 

So were the CDC.  At least they admitted it...

[RiotAct]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

I just talked to my colleague this morning, who is a Dem.  He said he's never voting for a Dem again because of this.

it’s okay, for every 1 person like your friend there’s a couple “everything should be FREEEEEEE!!!” nimrods to take his place

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, Backintheday544 said:

It’s too bad you didn’t do more education in order to apply critical thinking before you post.

 

1. That’s not a CNBC study, that’s a National Taxpayer Union Foundation study. A right wing group

 

2. to call it a study is laughable. Their study is to take the projected cost and divide it by the total number of people who filed a return in 2019. It doesn’t take into account that many Americans don’t pay $2,000 in taxes. 
 

A better model to see what the average American will pay for this will take into account the disparity in the amount of taxes paid by each American. So if you were to look at what this will cost the average Joe American WalMart worker, it’s probably closer to a fraction of cent.

 

A couple pieces of advice:

 

1. read what you post

2. think to yourself who is writing this and why

3. understand math

 

If you can do this, then maybe you can join the rest of us as well informed taxpayers!

 

 

Let's check with the CBO - a far more reputable authority and source and one I'm sure has given us the numbers:

 

 

 

 

Biden's student debt forgiveness plan may cost taxpayers an average of $2,000, some policy experts say

 

 

Based on a total of under 158 million taxpayers in 2019, that works out to $2,085.59 per taxpayer, the National Taxpayers Union found.

 

The Penn Wharton estimate is "definitely going to increase" based on the Pell Grant and income-based repayment features announced by Biden on Wednesday, Wharton professor Kent Smetters said.

 

The Congressional Budget Office has yet to evaluate the total cost of the policy.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/24/bidens-student-loan-forgiveness-may-cost-taxpayers-prompt-inflation.html

Edited August 25, 2022 by Big Blitz

[Tiberius]

Woo boy! Just got my Treasury Department account unlocked. Now I can buy those juicy I Bonds! Paying 9.62% now. 

[BillStime]

37 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

so fauci, the lefts god, was wrong? Answer that 

lolz - god? jfc
 

Are you implying Fauci was giving Trump talking points or was Trump talking out of both sides of his mouth? He sure did.

 

Did Trump not admit to Bob Woodward that he deliberately downplayed the threat and severity of COVID in February 2020?
 

Why yes - yes he did.
 

Fauci is human and humans are not perfect - and nor is science. You goo do his job if you know all.