Canceling student loans

[Chef Jim]

9 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Oh absolutely…. When taxes are cut to reduce how much of our money the government steals, they have no compunction about calling it a cost to be paid for. 

Again dude they don’t give a *****. The government doesn’t run on a balance sheet like the real world. If they don’t “steal” enough the just print more.  Wake up. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Again dude they don’t give a *****. The government doesn’t run on a balance sheet like the real world. If they don’t “steal” enough the just print more.  Wake up. 

I’m awake alright… 

 

if they just printed more and didn’t care I wouldn’t be sending them so much money. 
 

and yes when Congress blows up receipts they absolutely go elsewhere to find it at least in theatrics. 

 

if you don’t understand and see the redistribution at work then you aren’t quite as smart as once thought…

[Chef Jim]

6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I’m awake alright… 

 

if they just printed more and didn’t care I wouldn’t be sending them so much money. 
 

and yes when Congress blows up receipts they absolutely go elsewhere to find it at least in theatrics. 

 

if you don’t understand and see the redistribution at work then you aren’t quite as smart as once thought…

Redistribution.  Good lord. No it’s pandering for votes plain and simple.   It’s all ***** theater. 
 

 

[Buffarukus]

13 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The term moral hazard comes to mind here.  People are asking fundamental and legitimate questions.  What about me?  What about my debts?  And why should I subsidize people with degrees from places like Harvard and Yale?  Why aren't these universities with multiple billion dollar endowments pitching in a few pennies for paying off loans students took out for the sometimes worthless and high priced degrees these places are peddling?  Other questions about personal responsibility.  All legitimate questions.   

 

decent questions, Harvard and Yale most likely dont have people making below 125k...at least i hope not, or come from families who are well off. the endowment is a really good question. these colleges that make tens of millions off their sport teams alone and some how are not spreading that to the student body in any way. pure profit. its a complete scam, a buisness that has tons of revenue and make kids buy PAPER at the print shops, make kids update books with the SAME info just so they cant but last years book used. some books are 250 dollars! ect ect ect. hopefully this brings the importance of addressing this crap to the forefront. 

 

13 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

And just why is student debt more worthy of forgiveness than other types of debt?  What about home owners that are now underwater with their home loans?  Owing more than the home is now worth, shouldn't they be forgiven a portion of their debt?  Or car loan borrowers that are behind in their payments.  Shouldn't people that depend on their car to get them to and from work or school or transporting the kids get a break?  What about consumer credit card debt?  Shouldn't consumers strapped with big balances and monthly payments at onerous rates above 20% have a portion of their debt forgiven?  And while we're at it, why hasn't a presumed "progressive" majority proposed or passed legislation to cap obscene interest rate charges?

 

ive never done it but cant all these loans be forgiven through bankruptcy? mostly all of them purchased assets that can be resold to recoup some and that money can be used to purchase somthing more affordable. so most loans do have ways to get out from under or mitigate but student loans are very unique as their is no way to ever get out. bankruptcy does not apply. 

 

13 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Joe has created more trouble than its worth here.  Because the freebie Genie's out of the bottle and there's no putting it back.  He'll end up placating a small minority of his base but pissing off and alienating almost everyone else.  Politically stupid right now, and economically a disaster.  At this point I'm wondering why any of us should have to service any loans or payments of any kind?  I mean, we "deserve" nice things too, right?  Let the government and the taxpayers take care of it.  Time to enjoy the good life for everybody!   

 

true but just with obama care i see Rs being very angry but if they get power do they have a plan to address this? i doubt it. they will fight to stop the payments and then ignore any addressing of the issue and let it conflate more until the dems, once again, look to pay people off.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Buffarukus

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

7 hours ago, Buffarukus said:

 

decent questions, Harvard and Yale most likely dont have people making below 125k...at least i hope not, or come from families who are well off. the endowment is a really good question. these colleges that make tens of millions off their sport teams alone and some how are not spreading that to the student body in any way. pure profit. its a complete scam, a buisness that has tons of revenue and make kids buy PAPER at the print shops, make kids update books with the SAME info just so they cant but last years book used. some books are 250 dollars! ect ect ect. hopefully this brings the importance of addressing this crap to the forefront. 
 

This site references the US Department of Education and suggests the average Yale graduate will qualify under the Biden plan.  Interestingly, the same site suggests the median student loan debt is $13,500.  In that regard, the data suggests that 84% of Yale graduates were actively paying their loan v the national average of 47%.   
https://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/connecticut/yale-university/salaries/

 

It’s an interesting conundrum that when applying for FASFA, household  income is considered as a critical element yet family ability to repay post-grad not so much.  Finally, it isn’t just Yale or Harvard, there are many high profile schools that cost a ton and have significant endowments not contributing to solve the problem. 

 

7 hours ago, Buffarukus said:

 

 

ive never done it but cant all these loans be forgiven through bankruptcy? mostly all of them purchased assets that can be resold to recoup some and that money can be used to purchase somthing more affordable. so most loans do have ways to get out from under or mitigate but student loans are very unique as their is no way to ever get out. bankruptcy does not apply. 
 

The easy bankruptcy out is another problem in the country. 

7 hours ago, Buffarukus said:

 

true but just with obama care i see Rs being very angry but if they get power do they have a plan to address this? i doubt it. they will fight to stop the payments and then ignore any addressing of the issue and let it conflate more until the dems, once again, look to pay people off.

One of the major reasons Trump won the election was the recognition that establishment Republicans were not all that different that establishment Democrats.  Lots of words, lots of talk, same old men in power.   If I hear Lindsey Graham suggest one more time to “Stay tuned” I’ll vomit.  
 

Stepping back a bit, it’s common knowledge that corporations and unions have a tremendous amount of power in our system.  We’ve all heard it.  Pharma. Oil. Finance. Health Insurance.   Somehow, though, education is talked about, raged about, emotions raw….and nothing changed.  
 

While I don’t necessarily ascribe to @Chef Jim approach to “Ah, f*** it”, he’s not wrong on the shell game aspect of it all.  Some people win, some people lose.  

[SoCal Deek]

11 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

I paid off my loan. I’m not pissed. Rules and laws change all the time. 
 

So what. Some people will now have $100 or more a month to spend. Big deal.  Good for them.  It’s those that come after.  “What about us?!?!”   Just wait.  You’ll get yours in 2024.

 

I just laugh at those that gobble this up as some great thing.   

Chef, nobody’s arguing against this on the fiscal policy you seem to be focused on. The argument is on the fairness policy. Does this money matter to the government? No. Does it matter to the individual taxpayer? Yes. 

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Chef, nobody’s arguing against this on the fiscal policy you seem to be focused on. The argument is on the fairness policy. Does this money matter to the government? No. Does it matter to the individual taxpayer? Yes. 

I pay taxes, A LOT of taxes, yet I don't see how this impacts me. Won't those given forgiveness spend more money, generate economic growth and help everyone? 

 

Yes! 

[SoCal Deek]

15 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I pay taxes, A LOT of taxes, yet I don't see how this impacts me. Won't those given forgiveness spend more money, generate economic growth and help everyone? 

 

Yes! 

Nope

I pay my taxes also… a ton of them. But would I rather the government send me the $10,000 that they’re selectively choosing to give as a Christmas present to the parents that told their kids to go get a loan? Yes, I’d rather have the money back. 

[T master]

On 12/10/2020 at 6:32 PM, shoshin said:

What a terrible idea.
 

Don’t want to pay it back? Don’t take out the loan. 
 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/10/us/politics/biden-student-loans.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

 

 

I here there are a bunch of Dems jumping on the band wagon that this is a terrible idea which go figure why they wouldn't know that prior to the vote it's just common sense not to mention how many of those folks the sacrificed to pay off their debt will change their vote because of this .

 

But you got to give it to them they are trying to buy more votes but i think it will back fire .

[B-Man]

 

 

 

"A majority of the dollars of student loan debt are owed by a small fraction of borrowers who, on average, have high incomes."

 

"They often borrowed to go to professional schools for degrees in law, medicine and business. They don’t have much trouble handling their payments, and their default rates are low.

 

By contrast, a majority of people holding student debt have moderate incomes and low balances. Many have no degree, having dropped out of a public college or for-profit vocational school after a few semesters. They carry little debt, but they also do not get the benefit of a college degree to help them pay off that debt. Defaults and financial distress are concentrated among the millions of students who drop out without a degree.... 

 

A full 30 percent of first-generation freshmen drop out of four-year colleges within three years.... Delinquency and default leave a longstanding blot on credit records, keeping borrowers from buying homes and cars, renting apartments and getting jobs. By allowing borrowers to once again get access to credit, housing and job markets, forgiving loans can therefore have a real effect on lives and the economy.... I once thought forgiveness to be an expensive Band-Aid, a distraction from fundamental reform. But I have seen so little progress on these issues that I now think we must make amends to those we have harmed...."

 

From "Why I Changed My Mind on Student Debt Forgiveness" by Harvard econprof Susan Dynarski.(NYT).

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/30/opinion/student-loan-debt-relief-biden.html?smid=url-share

 

 

[Tiberius]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Nope

I pay my taxes also… a ton of them. But would I rather the government send me the $10,000 that they’re selectively choosing to give as a Christmas present to the parents that told their kids to go get a loan? Yes, I’d rather have the money back. 

So you are jealous? great 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

[Chef Jim]

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Chef, nobody’s arguing against this on the fiscal policy you seem to be focused on. The argument is on the fairness policy. Does this money matter to the government? No. Does it matter to the individual taxpayer? Yes. 

 

I'm not focusing on the fiscal policy at all.  I'm focusing on the whining vs the winning.  For the whiners. How does this matter to you?  What direct affect does this have on your taxes?  As for those calling it a win?  It ain't.  It's all stupid optics.  

[Chef Jim]

4 hours ago, Tiberius said:

I pay taxes, A LOT of taxes, yet I don't see how this impacts me. Won't those given forgiveness spend more money, generate economic growth and help everyone? 

 

Yes! 

 

I agree with your fist part.  Your second part is your usual asinine self.  Giving away money is a short term boost to the economy and a long term disaster.  You know that thing called inflation?  You may have heard of it. 

 

How about this.  We figure a way to make college more affordable.  That's the long term fix and what should be demanded not the forgiveness of debt.  But go ahead.  You cheer this on as if it was going to do something. 

[SectionC3]

15 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I agree with your fist part.  Your second part is your usual asinine self.  Giving away money is a short term boost to the economy and a long term disaster.  You know that thing called inflation?  You may have heard of it. 

 

How about this.  We figure a way to make college more affordable.  That's the long term fix and what should be demanded not the forgiveness of debt.  But go ahead.  You cheer this on as if it was going to do something. 

Sounds like socialism to me. Sick. 

[Doc]

2 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

Sounds like socialism to me. Sick. 

 

Hoax.

[reddogblitz]

7 hours ago, T master said:

It you got to give it to them they are trying to buy more votes but i think it will back fire .

 

I would agree if they didn't have abortion in their back pocket.

[T master]

19 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

Seriously?  You think the government has or cares about accounts receivable?  
 

😂😂😂😂😂😂

 

That's the big bamboozle there are a few here that believe the gov't truly cares about all the people when in reality they don't give a rat's ass about any of us as long as they get what they want it's al good in DC & retirement ...

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

4 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I'm not focusing on the fiscal policy at all.  I'm focusing on the whining vs the winning.  For the whiners. How does this matter to you?  What direct affect does this have on your taxes?  As for those calling it a win?  It ain't.  It's all stupid optics.  

What? Oh come on! That could literally be your response to anything then. I have no idea where you’re coming from on this topic. Forgiving these loans is one the worst ideas I’ve heard in a long time…and there have been some really really bad suggestions from our friends in Washington over the years.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

54 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

What? Oh come on! That could literally be your response to anything then. I have no idea where you’re coming from on this topic. Forgiving these loans is one the worst ideas I’ve heard in a long time…and there have been some really really bad suggestions from our friends in Washington over the years.

 

i know every time politicians give away a bunch of money, Unless it’s a reduction in taxation (and since I live well beneath my means, repaid my loans, work a lot, support a family & household, have made good choices and grown income and wealth) what ever they are doing will cost me more in the short term, the long term or both, because they have to sustain redistribution to their nonproductive sheep on the backs of the productive. 
 

and to the financially illiterate debt is money… 😂 

 

And removing a half a trillion dollars of future inflows are going to be attempted to be backfilled somehow.

[Doc]

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/giant-loophole-biden-student-debt-193420700.html

 

A loophole that could allow colleges and universities to charge more for tuition?  No way they would ever do that...

[Chef Jim]

5 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

Sounds like socialism to me. Sick. 

 

Tell us you have no idea what I'm talking about without actually telling us you have no idea what I'm talking about.  

 

Good job counselor. 

[SectionC3]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

 

Tell us you have no idea what I'm talking about without actually telling us you have no idea what I'm talking about.  

 

Good job counselor. 

Chef Jim Crow has returned.   I was going hoping you would like your beak in.  Hoax.  I’m poop posting and happened to see you me comment.  But good to know that you don’t deny that you’re a closet socialist. 

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Chef Jim Crow has returned.   I was going hoping you would like your beak in.  Hoax.  I’m poop posting and happened to see you me comment.  But good to know that you don’t deny that you’re a closet socialist. 

 

So you've jumped to the socialist conclusion just as you did racist.  Now lets see if you can explain how you've come to the socialist conclusion. I'm assuming I'll get the dodge just as I did when you called me a racist.  

 

This should be a lot of fun. 

[Chef Jim]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

What? Oh come on! That could literally be your response to anything then. I have no idea where you’re coming from on this topic. Forgiving these loans is one the worst ideas I’ve heard in a long time…and there have been some really really bad suggestions from our friends in Washington over the years.

 

And all I hear is whining but no suggestions on how to fix the real problem.  The high cost of college education.  

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

 

And all I hear is whining but no suggestions on how to fix the real problem.  The high cost of college education.  

Well you certainly don’t fix it by forgiving loans. Maybe, just maybe, everyone doesn’t need to go to college! Maybe you can do the course work for your major in three years and forget about the waste of time electives designed to keep professors employed. How about those suggestions? 

[SectionC3]

12 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

 

So you've jumped to the socialist conclusion just as you did racist.  Now lets see if you can explain how you've come to the socialist conclusion. I'm assuming I'll get the dodge just as I did when you called me a racist.  

 

This should be a lot of fun. 

I believe in allowing the market to dictate prices.  You feel differently.  Maybe I should have properly characterized you as a communist.  Whatever. Potato, potatoh.  I'm a capitalist.  You should be, too. 

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

I believe in allowing the market to dictate prices.  You feel differently.  Maybe I should have properly characterized you as a communist.  Whatever. Potato, potatoh.  I'm a capitalist.  You should be, too. 

So what’s my plan to make college more affordable?  You seem to know. 
 

And this is the same leap you used to call me a racist.  I seriously hope you’re not a litigator because you really suck at this. 

[Doc]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

So what’s my plan to make college more affordable?  You seem to know. 
 

And this is the same leap you used to call me a racist.  I seriously hope you’re not a litigator because you really suck at this. 

 

He's the guy that pours the water for chairs 1 and 2...

[Chef Jim]

11 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Well you certainly don’t fix it by forgiving loans. Maybe, just maybe, everyone doesn’t need to go to college! Maybe you can do the course work for your major in three years and forget about the waste of time electives designed to keep professors employed. How about those suggestions? 

Won’t help. Nice try. The first question I want y’all to answer is this: 

 

Why is college so expensive?  Answer this and we can work on a solution. 

[LeviF]

7 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Won’t help. Nice try. The first question I want y’all to answer is this: 

 

Why is college so expensive?  Answer this and we can work on a solution. 

 

The same reason so many other things are so expensive: administrative bloat.

 

But I have no interest in a solution. 

[Chef Jim]

2 minutes ago, LeviF said:

 

The same reason so many other things are so expensive: administrative bloat.

 

But I have no interest in a solution. 

Ok there’s one reason. 
 

Why do you have no interest in a solution? 

[LeviF]

5 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Ok there’s one reason. 
 

Why do you have no interest in a solution? 

 

Friend/enemy distinction, Chef. Universities are leftist power structures that exist only to benefit the left's friends. I'm interested in dismantling them.

 

If you think the state of the judiciary now isn't great, just wait until the people studying Qu3er Legal Theory at Boalt right now start turning 45. 

Edited August 31, 2022 by LeviF

[SoCal Deek]

13 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Won’t help. Nice try. The first question I want y’all to answer is this: 

 

Why is college so expensive?  Answer this and we can work on a solution. 

What is anything worth? Answer: What people are willing to pay for it.
 

Which is why paying off these loans is such a ridiculous idea. All it will do is artificially raise the price of what people are “willing to pay”….because in fact THEY aren’t paying.

 

Think I’m wrong? I dare you to go to any conference trade show and watch the people stroll the convention floor aisles scooping up swag items from each and every booth they pass. Within the hour they’ll have a tote bag filled to the brim. But, 99% of those people will leave that full bag in the hotel room before they leave for home. Why? Because within less than a day they’ve realized it’s all a bunch of free nonsense that isn’t worth hauling around.

[Chef Jim]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

What is anything worth? Answer: What people are willing to pay for it.
 

Which is why paying off these loans is such a ridiculous idea. All it will do is artificially raise the price of what people are “willing to pay”….because in fact THEY aren’t paying.

 

Think I’m wrong? I dare you to go to any conference trade show and watch the people stroll the convention floor aisles scooping up swag items from each and every booth they pass. Within the hour they’ll have a tote bag filled to the brim. But, 99% of those people will leave that full bag in the hotel room before they leave for home. Why? Because within less than a day they’ve realized it’s all a bunch of free nonsense that isn’t worth hauling around.

I understand all this. But no one is talking about solutions to the problem of the cost of college. And there are solutions. Some on the university side and some of it on the consumer’s side.  
 

Still a bunch of whining and little solutions. 
 

This was written 12 years ago and is fantastic.  
 

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED536144.pdf

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

I understand all this. But no one is talking about solutions to the problem of the cost of college. And there are solutions. Some on the university side and some of it on the consumer’s side.  
 

Still a bunch of whining and little solutions. 
 

This was written 12 years ago and is fantastic.  
 

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED536144.pdf

Chef…please. Every solution everyone proposes causes you to answer with the same thing….’so what’s your solution’. If you believe you know the answer just tell us already!!!!

 

(By the way, your linked article pretty much says what everyone on here, including myself, have already been saying.)

Edited August 31, 2022 by SoCal Deek

[Chef Jim]

9 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Chef…please. Every solution everyone proposes causes you to answer with the same thing….’so what’s your solution’. If you believe you know the answer just tell us already!!!!

 

(By the way, your linked article pretty much says what everyone on here, including myself, have already been saying.)

Well I’ve not read the whole thread I guess because all I’ve seen is mostly bitching and moaning about people getting some government hand out and not a lot of talk about solutions . So forgive me for my ignorance. 
 

Here’s the thing. That paper with all those great ideas was written 12 years ago.  Nothing has changed.  So you all keep bending over and sending your kids to over priced universities.  There are alternatives. 
 

I suggest you get off here and enjoy your retirement. Why I’ve not been around much lately. I will take my own advice. The gym and the pool are calling my name. 
 

Carry on children. 
 

 

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Well I’ve not read the whole thread I guess because all I’ve seen is mostly bitching and moaning about people getting some government hand out and not a lot of talk about solutions . So forgive me for my ignorance. 
 

Here’s the thing. That paper with all those great ideas was written 12 years ago.  Nothing has changed.  So you all keep bending over and sending your kids to over priced universities.  There are alternatives. 
 

I suggest you get off here and enjoy your retirement. Why I’ve not been around much lately. I will take my own advice. The gym and the pool are calling my name. 
 

Carry on children. 
 

 

Thanks Chef! I’m having a blast. I now get to do what I want to do and only when I want do it. May be heading out your way for the weekend. A few days in the pool sounds great! 😎

[SectionC3]

57 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

So what’s my plan to make college more affordable?  You seem to know. 
 

And this is the same leap you used to call me a racist.  I seriously hope you’re not a litigator because you really suck at this. 

Hoax.  I never called you a racist.  Also, instead of beating around the bush with your secret, non-socialistic plan, maybe you could tell us what it is.  Until then, have fun aligning with the commies. 

[SectionC3]

35 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

What is anything worth? Answer: What people are willing to pay for it.
 

Which is why paying off these loans is such a ridiculous idea. All it will do is artificially raise the price of what people are “willing to pay”….because in fact THEY aren’t paying.

 

Think I’m wrong? I dare you to go to any conference trade show and watch the people stroll the convention floor aisles scooping up swag items from each and every booth they pass. Within the hour they’ll have a tote bag filled to the brim. But, 99% of those people will leave that full bag in the hotel room before they leave for home. Why? Because within less than a day they’ve realized it’s all a bunch of free nonsense that isn’t worth hauling around.

I don’t disagree with you.  The whole thing is ridiculous.  Go to a state school and work your way up and pay off your own loans, like I did.  I have no interest in paying for people who went to Ivy League flunky schools and then realized that they overbought and got stuck and can’t live the life that mommy and daddy gave them and now want a bailout.  Get a second job, cut the cable, buy a used phone, whatever.  A little frugality goes a long way.

 

 I can stomach what Biden did because it will help working people—like with trade school debt—and African Americans who, by and large, don’t get as much family assistance with tuition.  But any more than this is a non-starter for me.  

 

And, on the price of college, I completely agree with the sentiment that it’s a scam and that lenders frequently get caught holding the bag when dumb kids have been gouged by places like Colgate and the University of Phoenix.  But free markets are free markets and, unless those institutions have engaged in a fraud, I don’t believe that the government should cap the cost of higher education. Improve the state systems as needed to make them better and perhaps larger?  Sure.  But if Colgate can get what Colgate charges, as much as I think it’s a rip off, it should be entitled to do so.