Canceling student loans

[T master]

On 12/11/2020 at 9:56 AM, Tiberius said:

What a boost to consumer spending it would be! 

 

Yep it would boost the cost of those that actually pay for what they sign up for & because some one has to pay for it which in the long run will more than likely be the US gov't S**T roles down hill & we the people will pay for it weather it be through higher taxes along with higher inflation .

 

Not to mention sending the message that if you take on a responsibility you can just say screw it if you decide later to change your mind with little to no consequences but that has become the new America that you love so much !! 

 

EVERY BODY GETS A TROPHY NO MATTER HOW GOOD OR BAD YOU DO PARTICIPATE OR NOT YOU TO WILL GET A TROPHY !! JUST BECAUSE YOUR A ENTITLED AMERICAN !! 

4 hours ago, BillStime said:

Another loss for the pathetic cult

 

 

 

It's all about buying votes plain and simple ... That's the way politics work give away entitlements and they will vote for me !! 

[BillStime]

4 hours ago, T master said:

 

Yep it would boost the cost of those that actually pay for what they sign up for & because some one has to pay for it which in the long run will more than likely be the US gov't S**T roles down hill & we the people will pay for it weather it be through higher taxes along with higher inflation .

 

Not to mention sending the message that if you take on a responsibility you can just say screw it if you decide later to change your mind with little to no consequences but that has become the new America that you love so much !! 

 

EVERY BODY GETS A TROPHY NO MATTER HOW GOOD OR BAD YOU DO PARTICIPATE OR NOT YOU TO WILL GET A TROPHY !! JUST BECAUSE YOUR A ENTITLED AMERICAN !! 

 

It's all about buying votes plain and simple ... That's the way politics work give away entitlements and they will vote for me !! 

And the tax cuts for the rich and corporate America had nothing to do with votes?

 

smfh

[Chef Jim]

5 hours ago, BillStime said:

And the tax cuts for the rich and corporate America had nothing to do with votes?

 

smfh

So then we can now put you down on record as this cancellation of student loan debt was done to “buy” votes?  ✔️

[BillStime]

3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

So then we can now put you down on record as this cancellation of student loan debt was done to “buy” votes?  ✔️

I could care less what you do 

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

So then we can now put you down on record as this cancellation of student loan debt was done to “buy” votes?  ✔️

BillSy apparently believes the millions of billionaires votes are what put Trump over the top. The comments get more desperate and ridiculous as we get closer and closer to the midterms. 

[Chef Jim]

10 minutes ago, BillStime said:

I could care less what you do 

Your behavior is one of the reasons I didn’t have children.  I have rarely seen an “adult” act more like a child than you. 

[BillStime]

2 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

Your behavior is one of the reasons I didn’t have children.  I have rarely seen an “adult” act more like a child than you. 

Not convinced THATs the reason - lmao

[Backintheday544]

17 hours ago, BillStime said:

Another loss for the pathetic cult

 

 

This case had the best chance of going somewhere and a Republican judge threw it out. Every challenge has been defeated pending some appeals. The Supreme Court also denied to hear one of the cases.

 

Biden ran for President. One of his campaign promises was a student debt forgiveness. The American people chose this. Elections have consequences.

 

Policy promises like the are what put Biden over the top of Trump and helped secure the more progressive votes.

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

This case had the best chance of going somewhere and a Republican judge threw it out. Every challenge has been defeated pending some appeals. The Supreme Court also denied to hear one of the cases.

 

Biden ran for President. One of his campaign promises was a student debt forgiveness. The American people chose this. Elections have consequences.

 

Policy promises like the are what put Biden over the top of Trump and helped secure the more progressive votes.

So paying off other people’s debts is progressive? 

[Chef Jim]

14 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

So paying off other people’s debts is progressive? 

No…..I think it’s Socialism. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[The Frankish Reich]

The decision seems correct under existing legal rules. 
But the rules have to be changed. 
In our federal system the courts are not allowed to issue “advisory opinions.” If Congress passes a law of dubious constitutionality, or if the President implements a policy that runs afoul of the Constitution (and I believe this one does), there’s also no “taxpayer standing” to challenge it. You’d have to find an individual plaintiff or plaintiffs to show that they are being harmed by the policy. “My taxes may go up in the future” is not enough. 
It’s not just Biden, although this is a pretty extreme executive action. Trump diverting appropriations to building his wall was another. In our system, Congress is supposed to have some control over how taxpayer monies are spent. Maybe we need a doctrine (or even constitutional amendment) to allow the courts to strike down unconstitutional policies based on a certification by a certain percentage of Congress, etc. 

[BillStime]

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

So paying off other people’s debts is progressive? 

Did you have your PPP loans forgiven? 

[Chef Jim]

20 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Did you have your PPP loans forgiven? 

Please explain how these two programs are even remotely similar. 

[BillStime]

Go Brandon go! 
 

 

[Chef Jim]

4 hours ago, BillStime said:

Go Brandon go! 
 

 

Not so fast……

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/appeals-court-temporarily-halts-biden-administrations-student-loan-forgiveness-program-11666394482

[T master]

On 10/21/2022 at 3:32 AM, BillStime said:

And the tax cuts for the rich and corporate America had nothing to do with votes?

 

smfh

 

Well of course they do every thing that surrounds the gov't is crooked they sit and think of ways to buy votes especially when they are screwing things up as bad as this guy has he's trying to stop the hole in the bottom of the boat because its sinking so the college loan forgiveness, the getting people out of jail for simple possession of pot releasing gas from the strategic reserve it's all part of it .

 

Which the release of people for pot i will say i agree with because it was a stupid law from the get go but its the timing of it he's posturing him self to look good for more votes .

Edited October 22, 2022 by T master

[BillStime]

7 hours ago, T master said:

 

Well of course they do every thing that surrounds the gov't is crooked they sit and think of ways to buy votes especially when they are screwing things up as bad as this guy has he's trying to stop the hole in the bottom of the boat because its sinking so the college loan fogginess, the getting people out of jail for simple possession of pot releasing gas from the strategic reserve it's all part of it .

 

Which the release of people for pot i will say i agree with because it was a stupid law from the get go but its the timing of it he's posturing him self to look good for more votes .

It’s called F’N politics - lol

 

 

[Backintheday544]

10 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

Not so fast……

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/appeals-court-temporarily-halts-biden-administrations-student-loan-forgiveness-program-11666394482

Nothing burger for right now. The ruling doesn’t decide any merits of this case or anything. The lower ruling that the Republicans don’t have standing is still affirmed until the Appeals court can decide.

 

So this pause on the forgiveness doesn’t tell us anything about how the court will rule on the Republican judges decision that there is no standing.

 

MOHELA is probably the only entity or person in America with standing. They’re being dragged into the case by Republicans without being the one actually bringing a case. It seems highly doubtful they would bring a case is this fails at appeals.

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, Backintheday544 said:

Nothing burger for right now. The ruling doesn’t decide any merits of this case or anything. The lower ruling that the Republicans don’t have standing is still affirmed until the Appeals court can decide.

 

So this pause on the forgiveness doesn’t tell us anything about how the court will rule on the Republican judges decision that there is no standing.

 

MOHELA is probably the only entity or person in America with standing. They’re being dragged into the case by Republicans without being the one actually bringing a case. It seems highly doubtful they would bring a case is this fails at appeals.

Yes for right now.  But the fact that’s it’s even being reviewed says something.  We shall see how this turns out. 
 

Let me ask you a question.  Why does a family making $250k need any kind of forgiveness?  

[ALF]

5 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Yes for right now.  But the fact that’s it’s even being reviewed says something.  We shall see how this turns out. 
 

Let me ask you a question.  Why does a family making $250k need any kind of forgiveness?  

 

They don't , that means test is way too high 

[Chef Jim]

10 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

They don't , that means test is way too high 

I agree.  The means testing should be……$0!  😏

[Backintheday544]

39 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Yes for right now.  But the fact that’s it’s even being reviewed says something.  We shall see how this turns out. 
 

Let me ask you a question.  Why does a family making $250k need any kind of forgiveness?  

The fact that it’s being reviewed means the attorneys that lost at the lower level filed an appeal.

 

While it’s the strongest case for standing, the lower courts ruling doesn’t seemed flawed, especially since it’s coming from a Republican judge.

 

A means test needs to be placed somewhere. At least this has a test unlike PPP1.

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, Backintheday544 said:

 

A means test needs to be placed somewhere. At least this has a test unlike PPP1.

Why can’t you guys give a direct answer to a direct question?  I was under the impression you were better than Billy Boy. I was obviously greatly mistaken.  😏
 

So without pointing to PPP, which is a lazy comparison, what should the means test level be?  

Edited October 22, 2022 by Chef Jim

[Chef Jim]

How about an adult means test. Annual loan repayment to annual income ratio?  Kind of makes a little bit more sense doesn’t it?   That would eliminate a lot of people getting forgiveness that don’t need it. 

[Chef Jim]

I have a question for those that think this is a good idea.  What will the monthly savings be for the average $10k in forgiveness ?  

[Backintheday544]

4 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

Why can’t you guys give a direct answer to a direct question?  I was under the impression you were better than Billy Boy. I was obviously greatly mistaken.  😏
 

So without pointing to PPP, which is a lazy comparison, what should the means test level be?  

$125,000 per person is what it is. That’s fine with me. That hits middle America.

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, Backintheday544 said:

$125,000 per person is what it is. That’s fine with me. That hits middle America.

Excuse me??  $125k per person is middle America?  You may want to rethink that. 
 

What about a debt to income ratio means test like I suggested. Doesn’t that make a little more sense? 

[Backintheday544]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

Excuse me??  $125k per person is middle America?  You may want to rethink that. 
 

What about a debt to income ratio means test like I suggested. Doesn’t that make a little more sense? 

Debt to income doesn’t make sense. Say a lawyer has $150k in debt (3 years at $50k). Makes $200k. Debt to income is .6.

 

A person making $30,000 took out $10k for community college. Their ratio is .33.

 

So in your scenario, are we giving forgiveness to the higher ratio or lower ratio?

 

plus the administrative burden is an issue. We saw with the stimulus payments what a pain it was to get IRS systems to talk to SS systems so people on SS who don’t file got a stimulus. Now you’d have DOE trying to talk to IRS and do a calculation. (Maybe it won’t be as hard since DOE already pulls IRS income info for IBR)

[Tenhigh]

6 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

Debt to income doesn’t make sense. Say a lawyer has $150k in debt (3 years at $50k). Makes $200k. Debt to income is .6.

 

A person making $30,000 took out $10k for community college. Their ratio is .33.

 

So in your scenario, are we giving forgiveness to the higher ratio or lower ratio?

 

plus the administrative burden is an issue. We saw with the stimulus payments what a pain it was to get IRS systems to talk to SS systems so people on SS who don’t file got a stimulus. Now you’d have DOE trying to talk to IRS and do a calculation. (Maybe it won’t be as hard since DOE already pulls IRS income info for IBR)

Or we could just let people pay back their student loans under the terms in which they were borrowed. How is this fair to the people who struggled and paid their debts before them?  Or for the next group that won't get their loans forgiven?

[Chef Jim]

6 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

Debt to income doesn’t make sense. Say a lawyer has $150k in debt (3 years at $50k). Makes $200k. Debt to income is .6.

 

A person making $30,000 took out $10k for community college. Their ratio is .33.

 

So in your scenario, are we giving forgiveness to the higher ratio or lower ratio?

 

plus the administrative burden is an issue. We saw with the stimulus payments what a pain it was to get IRS systems to talk to SS systems so people on SS who don’t file got a stimulus. Now you’d have DOE trying to talk to IRS and do a calculation. (Maybe it won’t be as hard since DOE already pulls IRS income info for IBR)

Let me re-explain.  I was not clear.  Not the total debt. The debt repayment on the amount being forgiven not the total loan. So their total annual  payment on the $10k being forgiven vs their total annual income. 
 

Regarding administrative burden.  The process is pretty much already in place. See we already have a forgiveness plan in place.  Income Bases Repayment plans. 

[Backintheday544]

2 hours ago, Tenhigh said:

Or we could just let people pay back their student loans under the terms in which they were borrowed. How is this fair to the people who struggled and paid their debts before them?  Or for the next group that won't get their loans forgiven?

Where in the Constitution does it say all government actions must be fair? If we cure cancer tomorrow do we not give it to people currently with cancer because it wouldn’t be fair to the people who died before?

 

Is it fair when the GOP passes tax cuts that help the wealthy but raise the deficit a ton like TCJA? No. Why? Because government action doesn’t need to be fair.

 

Any time the government acts, there will be people who come out for the better and people who feel it isn’t fair.

[sherpa]

26 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

Where in the Constitution does it say all government actions must be fair? If we cure cancer tomorrow do we not give it to people currently with cancer because it wouldn’t be fair to the people who died before?

 

Is it fair when the GOP passes tax cuts that help the wealthy but raise the deficit a ton like TCJA? No. Why? Because government action doesn’t need to be fair.

 

Any time the government acts, there will be people who come out for the better and people who feel it isn’t fair.

 

Tax policy is arbitrary and effects all.

 

Abrogating legal promissory notes, at the expense of the American taxpayer, for the benefit of those who refuse to be obligated to their promises, while countless others did so is an entirely different situation.

 

[Tenhigh]

1 hour ago, Backintheday544 said:

Where in the Constitution does it say all government actions must be fair? If we cure cancer tomorrow do we not give it to people currently with cancer because it wouldn’t be fair to the people who died before?

 

Is it fair when the GOP passes tax cuts that help the wealthy but raise the deficit a ton like TCJA? No. Why? Because government action doesn’t need to be fair.

 

Any time the government acts, there will be people who come out for the better and people who feel it isn’t fair.

Lol, c'mon man, this is ridiculous, but I think you know that already.  

Edited October 23, 2022 by Tenhigh

[Chef Jim]

If the Administration really wanted to provide relief to those that are swimming in debt they’d promote the forgiveness programs already in place.  Those provide relief for the WHOLE debt not just $10k which for many is a small percentage of their overall loan balance.  Those programs are based on income and put the payment amount in line with what the borrower can afford. 
 

This should open the eyes of those that think this is a great thing and let them see it’s nothing other than political pandering. 
 

Yeah but but but PPP in 3…..2……1. 

[Tiberius]

 

[ChiGoose]

16 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 

I can’t find the actual order yet but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a standing issue. 

[BillStime]

 

[Big Blitz]

 

 

 

[KDIGGZ]

As someone with student loans, I'm glad this is being blocked. We knew what we were doing when we took out loans and the interest rates are stupid low. I had friends that took out way more than they needed and used the money to go on Spring break, buy motorcycles, live it up. They would have been bailed out too? They knew what they were doing and they also knew they had 20 years to pay it back with very little interest so it was a great deal.

 

Biden was being pressured by Pocahontas and Chucky and his stance was that he could not legally forgive loans. This came up many times during the 2020 debates and he said no he was not going to cancel student debt. So what changed?

 

This was always just a cheap trick to get votes similar to a kid running for class president on the platform that he would make homework illegal and everyone gets free snacks at lunch. You get the dummies to vote for you and then say oh sorry they won't let me do it, not my fault! If you fell for it then you got played

[Doc]

Just now, KDIGGZ said:

As someone with student loans, I'm glad this is being blocked. We knew what we were doing when we took out loans and the interest rates are stupid low. I had friends that took out way more than they needed and used the money to go on Spring break, buy motorcycles, live it up. They would have been bailed out too? They knew what they were doing and they also knew they had 20 years to pay it back with very little interest so it was a great deal.

 

Biden was being pressured by Pocahontas and Chucky and his stance was that he could not legally forgive loans. This came up many times during the 2020 debates and he said no he was not going to cancel student debt. So what changed?

 

This was always just a cheap trick to get votes similar to a kid running for class president on the platform that he would make homework illegal and everyone gets free snacks at lunch. You get the dummies to vote for you and then say oh sorry they won't let me do it, not my fault! If you fell for it then you got played

 

Well he doesn't need to worry about it now since the mid-terms are over.  But they lost the House, which is good.