Sharky7337 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) Sorry if this was already posted. Edited December 10, 2020 by Sharky7337 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 36 minutes ago, Sharky7337 said: Sorry if this was already posted. It is being discussed in the Josh Allen Player of the week thread. Just as an FYI. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearNorth Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 The throw to gabe davis in the tight spot tells me he could be Andre Reed 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Thanks, been waiting all week for this. Deserves its own thread, imo. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) I was super excited for this one. Been watching these breakdowns for Josh since they started his rookie year. The progression he has shown is amazing. Edited December 10, 2020 by YattaOkasan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Now I just need to clear an hour in my day so I can watch it! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills365 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Now I just need to clear an hour in my day so I can watch it! Haha I was just thinking the same thing! Edited December 10, 2020 by Bills365 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearNorth Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Being an original Bills fan, also means I am retired and have that hour to watch. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Turner also said he was a bit concerned about Allen facing the Pittsburgh - specifically how their disguised coverages and the ability for the Bills can handle TJ Watt. He cited the game plan versus San Diego and Bosa to be run heavy and not as conservative. I think we call hope that isn’t the case. The thing that gives me optimism is how well Josh handled the adjustments from Robert Saleh - regarded as one of the most cerebral defensive coordinators in the NFL. Of course SF doesn’t have all pro players like Watt or Fitzpatrick on defense 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Watching this there are so many things that you can see growing in Josh’s game and improvements that it is just unbelievable to me. #1 - Josh gets credit for working in the off-season on his technique and footwork, but he is not getting near enough credit on the film study he must have done. Watching the 1st play they highlight (Cole’s seam pass) - you get a sense of just how much work he put in. The recognition of the defense, the leverage of the WRs to decide who is open, the anticipation in how Cole is going to speed up in the route, the ability to move to put himself in the best angle throw, etc. it was all on display. #2 - Anticipation throws: You can really see that this year he recognizes the coverage and starts his throws before his WR is uncovered and throws passes into windows that are elite level. The seam to Beasley is perfect - both he Cole recognize the coverage. Cole slow plays the route and as they get close to even with the defender - Cole starts ramping up his speed. Josh recognized what Cole was going to do and starts the throwing motion just as Cole starts to speed up and puts the ball perfectly on him. #3 - Foot work: The other change that I have seen is the modification of Josh’s footwork and throwing motion. His rookie year - he threw the ball like a pitcher in the classic QB style. He would work to get his feet (stride), his hips, and his shoulder all in a classic line where he was throwing the ball. This allows for get velocity and torque, but he really lacked control and if he slightly over strides or under strides the accuracy of the throw was off. His throwing motion this year reminds me more of a Shortstop/Third baseman with a more open stance with his feet, but his hips and shoulders still in alignment. This opens up the hips to get more torque, but has allowed him to control the throws so much better. He also is able to use the motion to manipulate the defense because he is in a throwing position even as he is running - he is able to mimic the start of throws easily and freeze and move safeties to allow a better throwing window. #4 - Recognition: The thing that is most striking to me is how quickly he is recognizing defenses and then manipulating the defense. Last year it started to get better, but this year it is on a whole new level. Many times with the pre-snap motion - he knows man vs zone, but he also recognizes based on grouping if they are going to try and combo him, trick him, or change things up. It is more than just is it man coverage because DC are now playing split coverages Man Zone combos and As long as Josh takes what they give him - the coverage has lead to plays like the Davis TD where a small miscommunication is exploited for a TD. The part that is incredible though is even with the broken coverage on that play - Josh stares at Sherman and gives a motion like he is throwing short holding him and giving Davis free ride to the end zone. Without using his eyes and motion to hold Sherman - there is a chance for him to get back and break up the play, but that slowed him down and opened everything up to be a breezy TD. Just amazing see the growth and maturity to match the talent. 7 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) Does anyone else get annoyed by the camera angles in games? Like why do they constantly zoom in so close? Its so frustrating to not see whats happening on the rest of the field. Half the time they zoom in so close to the QB that you have no idea who he is throwing to. I am really growing to hate it. Maybe they do it purposely to build anticipation but thats just awful. Anticipation would be seeing the play develop. This is why all 22s are better. Im not asking for them to show this camera angle but stop zooming in on the QB. Example below: https://youtu.be/lFZo7oIMlsw?t=123 Edited December 10, 2020 by What a Tuel 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: Watching this there are so many things that you can see growing in Josh’s game and improvements that it is just unbelievable to me. #1 - Josh gets credit for working in the off-season on his technique and footwork, but he is not getting near enough credit on the film study he must have done. Watching the 1st play they highlight (Cole’s seam pass) - you get a sense of just how much work he put in. The recognition of the defense, the leverage of the WRs to decide who is open, the anticipation in how Cole is going to speed up in the route, the ability to move to put himself in the best angle throw, etc. it was all on display. #2 - Anticipation throws: You can really see that this year he recognizes the coverage and starts his throws before his WR is uncovered and throws passes into windows that are elite level. The seam to Beasley is perfect - both he Cole recognize the coverage. Cole slow plays the route and as they get close to even with the defender - Cole starts ramping up his speed. Josh recognized what Cole was going to do and starts the throwing motion just as Cole starts to speed up and puts the ball perfectly on him. #3 - Foot work: The other change that I have seen is the modification of Josh’s footwork and throwing motion. His rookie year - he threw the ball like a pitcher in the classic QB style. He would work to get his feet (stride), his hips, and his shoulder all in a classic line where he was throwing the ball. This allows for get velocity and torque, but he really lacked control and if he slightly over strides or under strides the accuracy of the throw was off. His throwing motion this year reminds me more of a Shortstop/Third baseman with a more open stance with his feet, but his hips and shoulders still in alignment. This opens up the hips to get more torque, but has allowed him to control the throws so much better. He also is able to use the motion to manipulate the defense because he is in a throwing position even as he is running - he is able to mimic the start of throws easily and freeze and move safeties to allow a better throwing window. #4 - Recognition: The thing that is most striking to me is how quickly he is recognizing defenses and then manipulating the defense. Last year it started to get better, but this year it is on a whole new level. Many times with the pre-snap motion - he knows man vs zone, but he also recognizes based on grouping if they are going to try and combo him, trick him, or change things up. It is more than just is it man coverage because DC are now playing split coverages Man Zone combos and As long as Josh takes what they give him - the coverage has lead to plays like the Davis TD where a small miscommunication is exploited for a TD. The part that is incredible though is even with the broken coverage on that play - Josh stares at Sherman and gives a motion like he is throwing short holding him and giving Davis free ride to the end zone. Without using his eyes and motion to hold Sherman - there is a chance for him to get back and break up the play, but that slowed him down and opened everything up to be a breezy TD. Just amazing see the growth and maturity to match the talent. In one of the podcast interviews(I think Pat McAfee), Allen stated they hooked him up to something that provided a digital 3D view of his throwing motion and they found a bunch of mechanical issues, mainly that he was not using his hips at all when he was throwing and that it was all arm. Said he worked hard to get that changed but said he had issues when he tried to slow his throwing motion down and had to make other adjustments to compensate for that. Whatever it is he has done it has really worked. This should be a model for other franchises to try but honestly how successful would it be if someone wasn't "all in" on fixing it like Allen was? At the end of the day the player has to want to make the changes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharky7337 Posted December 10, 2020 Author Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, matter2003 said: In one of the podcast interviews(I think Pat McAfee), Allen stated they hooked him up to something that provided a digital 3D view of his throwing motion and they found a bunch of mechanical issues, mainly that he was not using his hips at all when he was throwing and that it was all arm. Said he worked hard to get that changed but said he had issues when he tried to slow his throwing motion down and had to make other adjustments to compensate for that. Whatever it is he has done it has really worked. This should be a model for other franchises to try but honestly how successful would it be if someone wasn't "all in" on fixing it like Allen was? At the end of the day the player has to want to make the changes. Don't tell them we don't want dam darnit to get better yet lol Edited December 10, 2020 by Sharky7337 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRVA Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Yes, it was the Pat McAfee interview where he talked about mapping his throwing motion and finding out that he was not using his hips. Pretty entertaining interview if anyone has not listened to it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 59 minutes ago, What a Tuel said: Does anyone else get annoyed by the camera angles in games? Like why do they constantly zoom in so close? Its so frustrating to not see whats happening on the rest of the field. Half the time they zoom in so close to the QB that you have no idea who he is throwing to. I am really growing to hate it. Maybe they do it purposely to build anticipation but thats just awful. Anticipation would be seeing the play develop. This is why all 22s are better. Im not asking for them to show this camera angle but stop zooming in on the QB. Example below: https://youtu.be/lFZo7oIMlsw?t=123 Preach Brother, Every week I’m screaming at the TV at one point or another. Then they won’t show a replay while they spend three replays on some crappy play from the other team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 The mechanics that they mention reminds me of Jim Fuyrks' golf swing. It looks like it's starting off wrong but always ends up where it is suppose to be by the time he finishes his delivery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharky7337 Posted December 10, 2020 Author Share Posted December 10, 2020 44 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said: Preach Brother, Every week I’m screaming at the TV at one point or another. Then they won’t show a replay while they spend three replays on some crappy play from the other team. Even on game changing penalties this year they have not even shown a replay at times drives me nuts! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 The throw to Davis was a thing of absolute beauty. As much as I like Jim Kelly, in his day I don’t think JK makes that throw. Every bit of what is being called Josh’s “arm talent” was on display with that completion. Just amazing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 58 minutes ago, The Wiz said: The mechanics that they mention reminds me of Jim Fuyrks' golf swing. It looks like it's starting off wrong but always ends up where it is suppose to be by the time he finishes his delivery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: #2 - Anticipation throws: All year. This is my favorite. Cole isnt even passed the defender (let alone looking) when allen rips it. 1 hour ago, matter2003 said: In one of the podcast interviews(I think Pat McAfee), Allen stated they hooked him up to something that provided a digital 3D view of his throwing motion and they found a bunch of mechanical issues, mainly that he was not using his hips at all when he was throwing and that it was all arm. Said he worked hard to get that changed but said he had issues when he tried to slow his throwing motion down and had to make other adjustments to compensate for that. Whatever it is he has done it has really worked. This should be a model for other franchises to try but honestly how successful would it be if someone wasn't "all in" on fixing it like Allen was? At the end of the day the player has to want to make the changes. The hips have been huge to him becoming a rotational passer. Its been noted by many as the improvement he made. Josh has always been accurate (see him hitting cross bars pre draft and with Simms) but isnt consistent in live fire. The hips and eating the burger have made him so consistent (Erik and Nate gush over it in the film breakdown). The funny thing is other franchises cant do this. Most QBs would be doing this in college or even HS. Josh couldnt really commit to football full time til he went to Reedly. I think it was said he had ~10k less passes than the other QBs at the draft. This was why the predictions about his career from the analytics guys were wrong. He didnt fit the historical data set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 14 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said: The throw to Davis was a thing of absolute beauty. As much as I like Jim Kelly, in his day I don’t think JK makes that throw. Every bit of what is being called Josh’s “arm talent” was on display with that completion. Just amazing. Currently my favorite JA play of the year. Wife was upstairs getting ready for bed and I was yelling for her to come back down 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 28 minutes ago, Sharky7337 said: Even on game changing penalties this year they have not even shown a replay at times drives me nuts! Yeah this too. Maybe I am underestimating the time it takes to get that replay on the screen but i cant stand watching a coach stand there for 30 seconds while i wonder what the replay actually shows. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, JohnNord said: Turner also said he was a bit concerned about Allen facing the Pittsburgh - specifically how their disguised coverages and the ability for the Bills can handle TJ Watt. He cited the game plan versus San Diego and Bosa to be run heavy and not as conservative. I think we call hope that isn’t the case. The thing that gives me optimism is how well Josh handled the adjustments from Robert Saleh - regarded as one of the most cerebral defensive coordinators in the NFL. Of course SF doesn’t have all pro players like Watt or Fitzpatrick on defense The biggest challenge that Pitt can give Allen is the ability to get home with the pass rush while clogging his escape lanes AND holding plastered man coverage so there's no one to throw to and no where to escape to. If Joe Haden is out that will be a huge boast, but the Bills need to come up with a better blitz bearer than the smoke screen. I mean, its great when it works, but you can only go to the well so many times. We need to get better at slip screens to the RB and quick slants to beat it. At the same time, I feel a lot better about the Bills OLine with Mongo at RG than with Winters. This will be a very interesting game. Edited December 10, 2020 by Motorin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somnus00 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 4 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: Watching this there are so many things that you can see growing in Josh’s game and improvements that it is just unbelievable to me. #1 - Josh gets credit for working in the off-season on his technique and footwork, but he is not getting near enough credit on the film study he must have done. Watching the 1st play they highlight (Cole’s seam pass) - you get a sense of just how much work he put in. The recognition of the defense, the leverage of the WRs to decide who is open, the anticipation in how Cole is going to speed up in the route, the ability to move to put himself in the best angle throw, etc. it was all on display. #2 - Anticipation throws: You can really see that this year he recognizes the coverage and starts his throws before his WR is uncovered and throws passes into windows that are elite level. The seam to Beasley is perfect - both he Cole recognize the coverage. Cole slow plays the route and as they get close to even with the defender - Cole starts ramping up his speed. Josh recognized what Cole was going to do and starts the throwing motion just as Cole starts to speed up and puts the ball perfectly on him. #3 - Foot work: The other change that I have seen is the modification of Josh’s footwork and throwing motion. His rookie year - he threw the ball like a pitcher in the classic QB style. He would work to get his feet (stride), his hips, and his shoulder all in a classic line where he was throwing the ball. This allows for get velocity and torque, but he really lacked control and if he slightly over strides or under strides the accuracy of the throw was off. His throwing motion this year reminds me more of a Shortstop/Third baseman with a more open stance with his feet, but his hips and shoulders still in alignment. This opens up the hips to get more torque, but has allowed him to control the throws so much better. He also is able to use the motion to manipulate the defense because he is in a throwing position even as he is running - he is able to mimic the start of throws easily and freeze and move safeties to allow a better throwing window. #4 - Recognition: The thing that is most striking to me is how quickly he is recognizing defenses and then manipulating the defense. Last year it started to get better, but this year it is on a whole new level. Many times with the pre-snap motion - he knows man vs zone, but he also recognizes based on grouping if they are going to try and combo him, trick him, or change things up. It is more than just is it man coverage because DC are now playing split coverages Man Zone combos and As long as Josh takes what they give him - the coverage has lead to plays like the Davis TD where a small miscommunication is exploited for a TD. The part that is incredible though is even with the broken coverage on that play - Josh stares at Sherman and gives a motion like he is throwing short holding him and giving Davis free ride to the end zone. Without using his eyes and motion to hold Sherman - there is a chance for him to get back and break up the play, but that slowed him down and opened everything up to be a breezy TD. Just amazing see the growth and maturity to match the talent. Agreed. You can find athletic guys with rocket arms in the NCAA. But what has impressed me the most, and what gives me hope for the future, is Josh's ability to be coached. It's clear that he recognizes that he has issues, and you can almost see him working on those issues from week to week. The jump he made from year 2 to year 3 is bonkers. He's committed to learning and perfecting his craft and it shows. A side note, I feel the same way about McDermott. He seems to be willing to adjust his coaching style and tendencies. The ability to self analyze with honesty is invaluable. We have guys willing to do that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 On 12/10/2020 at 9:46 AM, What a Tuel said: Does anyone else get annoyed by the camera angles in games? Like why do they constantly zoom in so close? Its so frustrating to not see whats happening on the rest of the field. Half the time they zoom in so close to the QB that you have no idea who he is throwing to. I am really growing to hate it. Maybe they do it purposely to build anticipation but thats just awful. Anticipation would be seeing the play develop. This is why all 22s are better. Im not asking for them to show this camera angle but stop zooming in on the QB. Example below: https://youtu.be/lFZo7oIMlsw?t=123 I think the bottom line is the networks play to the very casual fan who wants some drama built up and isn't really into the chess match aspect of it I buy gamepass for a reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 On 12/10/2020 at 6:46 AM, Sharky7337 said: Sorry if this was already posted. For those who want to jump to the film, 10:43 or so 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukestreetking Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 On 12/10/2020 at 10:31 AM, Rochesterfan said: Just amazing see the growth and maturity to match the talent Great synopsis, thanks Rochester. Best part is #4: Recognition...sky (mind) is the limit on this, year over year, esp as/after he reaches peak "athleticism". Re the latter: can't wait to see him on a no-s**t, hard nose, strength-nutrition program. Holy crap, what a freaking monster we will have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 On 12/10/2020 at 8:46 AM, BearNorth said: The throw to gabe davis in the tight spot tells me he could be Andre Reed 2.0 What's crazy is if he looked to the other side there was a busted coverage on Lee Smith and he literally walks to the endzone as there was nobody on his side of the field. But if he did that then we wouldn't have gotten to see this amazing throw... On 12/10/2020 at 3:23 PM, somnus00 said: Agreed. You can find athletic guys with rocket arms in the NCAA. But what has impressed me the most, and what gives me hope for the future, is Josh's ability to be coached. It's clear that he recognizes that he has issues, and you can almost see him working on those issues from week to week. The jump he made from year 2 to year 3 is bonkers. He's committed to learning and perfecting his craft and it shows. A side note, I feel the same way about McDermott. He seems to be willing to adjust his coaching style and tendencies. The ability to self analyze with honesty is invaluable. We have guys willing to do that. Even among guys with rocket arms they are all like "Whoa!" when they see him throw the ball. Like in the movie Hidden Figures where the NASA director tells them they need to find the genius among the geniuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 Just a comment in here. There are a couple of SICK blocks by Singletary in those plays. Check out the one at 54:14 in case this link doesn't take you there That's 4th and 3 to Diggs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 Most impressive Allen play for me was this one (starting at 35:56) This is the sort of mental processing and short accuracy that some people thought Allen would never have. He immediately recognizes the primary routes aren't covered, readjusts his base, and delivers an accurate ball to Singletary on a swing route to pick up an easy 7 or 8 yards on 1st down. If he can consistently make plays like that along with the normal wow plays we know he can make, he'll be the best QB in the league. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 I remember watching clips of Diggs,in the preseason, working his footwork and champing at the bit to see it against opponents. The curls where he sticks and comes back are great but the out route where he just destroys the CB on third down😍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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