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Still haven’t seen Allen’s potential

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4 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I think we are getting carried away with our expectations. Josh is already awesome. But no QB is perfect.  I'm not sure how much better you can realistically think he can become. There comes a point where other players have to step up, in particular O-line especially in run blocking.

 

True.  He seems to get held to a higher standard than everyone else in the league. Not just by Bills fans either. When Jackson throws an INT it's accepted as an unavoidable part of a QB's life. Every time Allen throws an INT it's the usual "shades of reckless Josh Allen creeping in again!"

 

It drives me crazy. He's not above criticism obviously, and I criticised him plenty yesterday. But why not just say he's having a bad game or a bad half? It always comes back to this lazy rhetoric about him being reckless or having a low completion % at Wyoming.

 

Interestingly it seems to work the other way for guys who are pre-determined to become superstars as soon as they're drafted. Take the Cards game, Murray was being penned in by Buffalo's D for the whole first half but instead of giving them props or saying Murray was having a tough half, the announcers kept, erm, announcing that "it's just a matter of time before this kid makes something happen". 

 

It's the same crap with Jackson, and I'm sure it'll be the same with Tua. It's actually kind of weird how many of these guys seem to actually dislike Allen and are either desperate for him to fail or at least a little pissed when he does well and they have to say so.

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I think the title of this thread is misleading. To make it more clear it should say we haven't seen JA's FULL potential. Which I agree with. Not to mimic Mel Kiper haha but Josh Allen is the embodiment of high ceiling (perceived low floor prior to the draft). He has shown tremendous growth noone who watches football can dispute that. 

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22 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

It's the same crap with Jackson, and I'm sure it'll be the same with Tua. It's actually kind of weird how many of these guys seem to actually dislike Allen and are either desperate for him to fail or at least a little pissed when he does well and they have to say so.

 

Pre-draft narratives are hard to kick, especially when there were zero statistics supporting Josh as a top tier guy. Fair or not, that will follow him for years.

 

Tua will be "injury prone" for years, and Lamar will be a "RB pretending to be QB" for years. Josh is JUST starting to kick the "extremely erratic gunslinger" shtick, but plenty of people have their responses all queued up for when he has a bad game or two.

 

There are fair critiques of every player, but there are no shortage of inflammatory and sensationalized takes out there.  Elite play buries most of them, but some never quite go away (ex. Tom Brady is a system QB, Peyton Manning was a choke artist, etc)

Edited by TheElectricCompany
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Our defense is giving up 26+ per game & our running game is subpar. Allen & Co are masking some deficiencies.

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40 minutes ago, Muppy said:

I think the title of this thread is misleading. To make it more clear it should say we haven't seen JA's FULL potential. Which I agree with. Not to mimic Mel Kiper haha but Josh Allen is the embodiment of high ceiling (perceived low floor prior to the draft). He has shown tremendous growth noone who watches football can dispute that. 

Thank you for the correction.

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30 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

Pre-draft narratives are hard to kick, especially when there were zero statistics supporting Josh as a top tier guy. Fair or not, that will follow him for years.

 

Tua will be "injury prone" for years, and Lamar will be a "RB pretending to be QB" for years. Josh is JUST starting to kick the "extremely erratic gunslinger" shtick, but plenty of people have their responses all queued up for when he has a bad game or two.

 

There are fair critiques of every player, but there are no shortage of inflammatory and sensationalized takes out there.  Elite play buries most of them, but some never quite go away (ex. Tom Brady is a system QB, Peyton Manning was a choke artist, etc)

 

Good points

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2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

His deep throws have had less and less air under them as the season has gone on, and it means his receivers can't adjust/catch up because it's getting there too fast. Basically, he's reverting to bad habits. Gotta get that fixed over the bye week. If he doesn't, teams won't fear the Bills deep game, just like last season. 

 

 

I know Carson Palmer tried to sell this as simply a footwork and shoulder alignment issue..........but putting touch on a throw is subtle and a lot of it is from the shoulder down.  The very good touch passers can deliver it from multiple foot and shoulder positions.

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I think anyone disappointed with Josh Allen this year is too focused on the first 4 games. He hasn't been that consistently good again, but compared to last year even his worst games have shown progress. We're no longer wondering if he is accurate enough or if he can learn to give up on a dead play. Now it's just about the nuances like learning to find his hot read and understanding how veteran DBs like Patrick Peterson will fool you. If right after we drafted Josh Allen we had been told what his stats would look like in year 3 we would have been over the moon. I also think Mahomes has ruined expectations for young QBs. A QB on his development track might never happen again.

Edited by HappyDays

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2 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Thank you for the correction.

I was ready to come into the thread and read an anti Josh Allen post so when I saw what was being said Im like ahh okay..haha...I will admit to being a bit cranky today anyway Im still licking my wounds from yesterdays debacle. 

 

What Is amazing about Josh is his improvement in areas noone was really giving him much chance of ...accuracy was a big one. All Qb's are going to throw interceptions so Im nit dogging him there . He was picked twice yesterday and if you recall he could have been twice more but the DB dropped those 2.......  Anyway one area I think we'd all agree he needs continued improvement is ball security (reduce the number of fumbles) but Im very happy he is our QB the 'is he our franchise guy...that "question isnt even discussed anymore he IS that. Thank Goodness That search is over!

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48 minutes ago, Muppy said:

I was ready to come into the thread and read an anti Josh Allen post so when I saw what was being said Im like ahh okay..haha...I will admit to being a bit cranky today anyway Im still licking my wounds from yesterdays debacle. 

 

What Is amazing about Josh is his improvement in areas noone was really giving him much chance of ...accuracy was a big one. All Qb's are going to throw interceptions so Im nit dogging him there . He was picked twice yesterday and if you recall he could have been twice more but the DB dropped those 2.......  Anyway one area I think we'd all agree he needs continued improvement is ball security (reduce the number of fumbles) but Im very happy he is our QB the 'is he our franchise guy...that "question isnt even discussed anymore he IS that. Thank Goodness That search is over!

No, no.. I deserve it.. His full potential makes more sense but honestly I am quite pleased with Josh.. He is more than a Kirk Cousins type of QB.. He makes elite throws that only maybe Rodgers and Mahomes could make.. Some times he trusts that arm too much but more often than not it pays off..

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I actually would not be suprised if we are not seeing close to Allen's potential at this point.......the only thing that is missing here is a running game.

 

If he levels out and is this good for the rest of his career......Josh Allen is as good as advertised i am not saying he should work to become better every year because as as soon as you stop trying to get better you are screwed......

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I think Josh will continue to improve in the mental and throwing mechanics of his game. He clearly has a Never ending improvement mentality. That is what has allowed him to improve and prove the doubters wrong. He is super competitive and knows he is just starting to learn how to play the position. He is not satisfied. All of which, as a fan, I love.

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You know how Josh Allen said the loss in the playoffs was on his mind and motivated him during the off season?  How do you think he's feeling after yesterday's loss?

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9 hours ago, High Football IQ said:

 

Unfortunately I think this is the real Josh Allen and pretty much a finished product.

 

It's not necessarily a bad thing but the wild inconsistency is probably going to continue with him looking like a league MVP one weak and a mess the next.

 

And in hindsight he's a major reason this team lost yesterday despite the late 4th quarter heroics which should have won the game in most circumstances.

 

Please look at the trend in his stats for the last three seasons, then tell my why you think he’s a finished product.

 

 

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He's far from a finished product  Wait till the Bills  actually have a run game and teams cant play strictly against the pass. 

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18 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

He's far from a finished product  Wait till the Bills  actually have a run game and teams cant play strictly against the pass. 

Exactly ^^^ 

I think this is a perfect time for a bye week , we should have everyone ( except Milano for one game ) healthy and ready to roll against the Chargers ,  

IF we can stay healthy this team can beat ANYBODY come playoffs 

Edited by Putin
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11 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

And he’s been great all year! On pace for 35 TDs and 11 INTs 3:1 ratio and 4,500 yards.. He still gets confused by certain packages but all in all his progress this year has been great! He’s in his 3rd year and that’s dog years for a QB.. The best is yet to come.. imagine him 4 or 5 years from now.. Best arm in the NFL and the game has really slowed down for him mentally.. Not even close to his prime yet... Wait till he masters the mental side of football and we’re likely looking at a Championship by the end of his time here.. Most gifted QB in the NFL and he still has yet to put it all together.. 

One thing that also does get lost with Josh is that he has a very high football IQ he had like the highest wonderlic score his draft year so he soaks information like a sponge he does have a tendency to trust his arm a little to much but he’s getting better at it I still think he needs a dynamic TE and a running game to counter all the cover 2 he’s seen but I couldn’t be happier with his progress 

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

Please look at the trend in his stats for the last three seasons, then tell my why you think he’s a finished product.

 

 

High football has ragged on Allen since he was drafted think he was a Josh Rosen guy so pay no attention to this man 

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7 hours ago, Putin said:

I probably should have said co-workers instead of friends I can’t imagine him having many 

 

If by co-workers you mean parents then sure. 

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On 11/16/2020 at 1:16 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Oh he's improved......... but there are guys who can make all of the throws..........and specifically throw with much better touch..........Mahomes, Rodgers and Russ to name the most prominent.

 

For them,  that touch is a gift or something they developed long before the NFL..........for Josh it's something he is still trying to turn into a positive.

 

I think he will get there but when nearly every ball that he throws over 30 yards in the air falls 10 feet or more off target I think it begins to become a self-sustaining problem............getting him someone who can retrieve the errant throw would help with the mental aspect, IMO.

 

 

We know we’re watching a delayed position development in Allen. Each year, we’ve seen dramatic improvement from some poor decisions and method throws from the previous season. But we’ve also seen an inevitable return to Mad Josh as the season wear on. This happens to most QBs that entered the League unpolished. The good ones eventually get it right in the face of big pressure and dealing with lingering injuries. He’s shown so much improvement from his rookie season. It confirms for me we haven’t seen his best yet.

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On 11/16/2020 at 11:26 AM, msw2112 said:

 

People need to be realistic.  Hall of Famers like Aaron Rodgers throw an occasional interception and have an occasional bad game.  Russell Wilson just had his 2nd bad game in a row.  Is he a mediocre QB?  Allen, too, will throw an occasional interception and have an occasional bad game.  Yesterday, he didn't have a terrible game.  He made some great plays, and made a couple of mistakes.  He also, as noted in this thread, had zero run game support.  He still made enough plays to win a road game against a good opponent.  He got the Bills into a 4 point lead with 31 seconds to go, making an incredible TD throw to get them there.  The Bills got beat on a freak play by two great athletes.  If they run that play 10 times, it fails 9.  It's hard to take the loss, but at some point you have to take your hat off to Murray and Hopkins, who made a great play.

This. The media--and even many people here--have locked into an immovable narrative about Allen, that he's inconsistent, with a "good" side and "bad" side that appear randomly. But whenever Brady or Lamar or Murray has a bad game, all the excuses come out to defend the prevailing narrative about them. It's "Well, his line isn't helping him out" or whatever, until they make a play; then it's "See? See? He's God incarnate!" With Allen, it's the other way around. It's "Ok, fine, he's thrown three TDs and run for two more. But just you wait. See! He just overthrew his receiver! He has to overcome his inaccuracy to be a decent qb." Lamar and Kyler could not throw another TD the rest of the season and some people would still rank them among the best QBs, whereas Allen could end up setting Bills records across the board this season and the same people would yawn. 

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