Every New England Run Play

[Jauronimo]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Pats ran right all day and gained yards at will, often repeating the same plays.  Weakside counter was a killer.

[Jobot]

The blueprint to beat the Bills is run the ball and force Josh Allen to play a perfect game. It's a very good game plan if you don't make mistakes (Newton fumble)

[teef]

1 minute ago, High Football IQ said:

 

Same thing that most teams have done because there is never any adjustments to stop it.

 

Eagles did this last year as did the Chiefs a few weeks ago.

 

This is why I'm also skeptical that if we pull of a trade today for a run stuffer DT it won't change much in the grand scheme of things especially since it will be a guy that gets at most 35-40% of the snaps each week.

most team?  you mentioned 2...one from last season.

[thebandit27]

So if I see one more person suggest that Edmunds is either unwilling or unable to take on an OLmen and shed, am I now free to slam my head into a wall out of frustration?

[GoBills808]

I mean Murphy literally just falls down in the first one🤦‍♂️

Just now, thebandit27 said:

So if I see one more person suggest that Edmunds is either unwilling or unable to take on an OLmen and shed, am I now free to slam my head into a wall out of frustration?

Let stupid dogs lie

[HoofHearted]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

So if I see one more person suggest that Edmunds is either unwilling or unable to take on an OLmen and shed, am I now free to slam my head into a wall out of frustration?

 

Dude was 100% on his fits in those three clips.

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

Dude was 100% on his fits in those three clips.

He was...look at all of the clips in the threads and you’ll notice a common theme...no spoilers 😂

[ClemsonBills]

Wow what a blatant hold by #80 on play #18. He basically held Taron for the entire play...

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

Dude was 100% on his fits in those three clips.

When you get a free release double G/T block on your LB I think it’s safe to say the result of the play is probably not his fault

[Jauronimo]

 

 Phillips with a really nice play on 1st and 10 from NE 35.

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

 

 Phillips with a really nice play on 1st and 10 from NE 35.

That’s the old Lotulelei role- accept the double and win when the second man releases

 

maybe he’s getting healthy🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, BUFFALOBART said:

The Eagle flat out dominated us, last year, as did Baltimore. The final score in both games, was not indicitive of the ass beating that we endured.

 

What game were you watching against Baltimore?  The Bills held the Ravens to 257 yards and 24 points when they were rolling up 450-500 yards and 40 points against everyone else on a weekly basis. They held them to 118 yards rushing, one of their lowest rushing totals of the season and one of their lowest YPC of the year, at 3.6 YPC.  

 

We lost 24-17 to Baltimore and defensively dominated them for much of the game. In fact, we created the blueprint Tennessee used to win in the playoffs against them.

Edited November 3, 2020 by matter2003

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Pats ran right all day and gained yards at will, often repeating the same plays.  Weakside counter was a killer.

 

any other year, perhaps any other team and that failed reach block by the outside receiver 80 is an obvious hold. Happened outside, in space, with a clear unobstructed view for the refs. 

 

Those are usually the holds in years past that were called - particularly against TE's every time you had a outside sweep play that went for a good chunk of yards. The reach block is hard to execute as the blocker cannot line up with too much outside leverage as that would both give the play away and the defender would likely adjust position wider to mirror making turning the edge more difficult. As soon as the ball is snapped that edge blocker has to get outside position leverage because if he is inside his only option is dragging on the defenders arms and jersey to keep him from sealing the edge which for as long as I have watched the game was a hold for the Bills (see Lee Smith past holds for some examples).

 

The Bills could explore this officiating change of heart and see if they get the same leeway - but I sincerely doubt it.

 

NE was doing some neat things with that RPO toss/crack play that Chris Simms eluded to in the 2nd half where two receivers lined up on one side and one down blocks the slot defender and pulling blockers open a gap for the run either by the second WR, or that WR (Burkhead) would lead block for Cam. With the way we were crashing and attacking the inside gaps to stuff the run, it was really effective at attacking the edges of our defense.

 

I think the Bills did run a similar play a few games ago with our receiver coming in to block the slot defender and he decleated the guy so badly that I think it drew a flag. That is a common thing with that play as your slot defender db/safety/big nickel is usually focused on the ball carrier and does not see the block coming from the side. Used to be worse when that block was often thrown low (illegal crack back).

 

Either way, a play that the Bills should explore more with the way teams try to play our run to force them to commit to defending the edges too. Allen could easily execute these, but I would want him to keep both hands on the ball, or he would pull a Newton and cough it up in traffic or getting tackled.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by WideNine

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, BUFFALOBART said:

The Eagle flat out dominated us, last year, as did Baltimore. The final score in both games, was not indicitive of the ass beating that we endured.

Bills were in the Baltimore game. Until that tight end ran by Poyer and down the whole field 

[Da webster guy]

1 hour ago, High Football IQ said:

 

Same thing that most teams have done because there is never any adjustments to stop it.

 

Eagles did this last year as did the Chiefs a few weeks ago.

 

This is why I'm also skeptical that if we pull of a trade today for a run stuffer DT it won't change much in the grand scheme of things especially since it will be a guy that gets at most 35-40% of the snaps each week.

 

Plus Jefferson, Zimmer and Ed are all playing above average ball right now.  I'd rather see them make a move at LB, it's our achilles heel and it's likely Milano and Edmunds will be on and off hurt all season.   We rolled the dice that our 2 LB's would be healthy for the past two drafts and we are paying for it now.

 

Darron Lee may be able to contribute, but he's not a thumper.  His game is similar to Tremaine, speed and range but not a good run defender.  Lorax?  Vosean?  I'm sure the Bills whiteboard has a lot of names on it, if I were Beane I'd desperately be making offers to trade picks, we are in the playoffs this year.

[teef]

1 hour ago, BUFFALOBART said:

The Eagle flat out dominated us, last year, as did Baltimore. The final score in both games, was not indicitive of the ass beating that we endured.

cool?

[Big Turk]

13 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

...and we were held to 209 yards. Allen threw for 146 yards, and was sacked six times. Allen had 9 rushing yards. On 3rd. down, we were 4 for 17, and that isn't getting it done. We lost the TOP battle @ 27:11.  The refs gave us a call against the Ravens @ the end of the game, and we still couldn't close the deal....

 

In no way was that domination by Baltimore. It was a close game that could have gone our way had we made a play or two. 

 

Domination was what they were doing to other teams up until that game.

Domination was when we played the 49ers in 2012 and they rolled up 300 yards passing and 300 yards rushing on us and won 45-3.

 

I guess our definitions of domination must be vastly different.

Edited November 3, 2020 by matter2003

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Jobot said:

The blueprint to beat the Bills is run the ball and force Josh Allen to play a perfect game. It's a very good game plan if you don't make mistakes (Newton fumble)

 

Josh Allen's game was far from perfect...the INT on a miscommunication between him and Diggs...the dropped pass to Davis in the EZ...a few more I can't think of right now, some missed opportunities.

 

And yet, we won.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Pats ran right all day and gained yards at will, often repeating the same plays.  Weakside counter was a killer.

 

YPP viewpoint to me seems to be that we had a pretty good run D in the first half, which wore down as the game went on.

That would match up with the Pats the first half stats:

2 first downs by rushing

0 for 4 on 3rd down

44 yds rushing on 15 attempts for 2.9 YPA

 

 

[Hebert19]

2 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

 

Dude was 100% on his fits in those three clips.

Indeed.   Perhaps he needs to get lower though when he meets the linemen in the hole so he at least clogs the lane more.  He does get pushed back a bit too much.   Feels like a technique issue a bit

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

That’s the old Lotulelei role- accept the double and win when the second man releases

 

maybe he’s getting healthy🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

See that second run there.  Edmunds needs to not take on the lineman standing up.  Get down low and even falling sometimes clogs the hole rather than getting pushed backwards because you are standing too upright when engaged. 

[colin]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

 

What game were you watching against Baltimore?  The Bills held the Ravens to 257 yards and 24 points when they were rolling up 450-500 yards and 40 points against everyone else on a weekly basis. They held them to 118 yards rushing, one of their lowest rushing totals of the season and one of their lowest YPC of the year, at 3.6 YPC.  

 

We lost 24-17 to Baltimore and defensively dominated them for much of the game. In fact, we created the blueprint Tennessee used to win in the playoffs against them.

 

you're in the wrong neighborhood if you think things like facts and statistics have ANY place in this discussion.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Did we Win?  

 

then it doesn't matter.  

 

jmo 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

Indeed.   Perhaps he needs to get lower though when he meets the linemen in the hole so he at least clogs the lane more.  He does get pushed back a bit too much.   Feels like a technique issue a bit

See that second run there.  Edmunds needs to not take on the lineman standing up.  Get down low and even falling sometimes clogs the hole rather than getting pushed backwards because you are standing too upright when engaged. 

 

If Kleins the will on a play, i'm running to the other side since... you don't need to even block him.  He'll take a bad angle and have no influence on the play. 

[Jauronimo]

2 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

Did we Win?  

 

then it doesn't matter.  

 

jmo 

I'm sure you can find many other threads to participate in that are more suited for your apathy and lack of intellectual curiosity.  

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

YPP viewpoint to me seems to be that we had a pretty good run D in the first half, which wore down as the game went on.

That would match up with the Pats the first half stats:

2 first downs by rushing

0 for 4 on 3rd down

44 yds rushing on 15 attempts for 2.9 YPA

 

 

this is a great point. People sort of forget that we kept the patriots in check in the first half. We also shut down Derrick Henry. 
 

The pats must have adjusted or we got tired or something— but I think when this team sells out to scheme against the run, they actually can stop the run. The problem is they probably can’t do that AND defend the pass well. They’re going to get gouged a bit one way or the other. 

[GoBills808]

10 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

Indeed.   Perhaps he needs to get lower though when he meets the linemen in the hole so he at least clogs the lane more.  He does get pushed back a bit too much.   Feels like a technique issue a bit

See that second run there.  Edmunds needs to not take on the lineman standing up.  Get down low and even falling sometimes clogs the hole rather than getting pushed backwards because you are standing too upright when engaged. 

No doubt and I’ve said from the start he plays a little light footed in the pros but that’s his game...he’s still almost always where he needs to be. Some (not many) lbs there can blow up a pulling guard but most times you just ask them to run fit, the whole 1/11 deal

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

5 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I'm sure you can find many other threads to participate in that are more suited for your apathy and lack of intellectual curiosity.  

 

You could have just ignored me.  

 

 

[colin]

im even more convinced the scheme we run is just a bit too fragile for who we have out there.  penetration by a fast and fresh (cuz of depth) d line isn't there, and the no call holding might cook us on that.  only two LBs out there means they have to read and move with less margin of error.  milano seems like he can do that most of the time, edmunds seems paralyzed reading the play (he made some huge individual plays last year with his size and speed when he didn't have to scan like a camera all the time), klien is a straight up non starter getting starter money.  behind that, we have a bunch of tiny DBs.  they are capable players and play hard, but not the best tacklers and at times physically over matched.

 

i suppose w a lead this d COULD be nasty again (although hasn't been, even with a lead) but im starting to get convinced that 49 is simply out of position at MLB, and we need 3 lbs at least some of the time.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

My point stands 

 

Quote

The Pats ran right all day and gained yards at will, often repeating the same plays.  Weakside counter was a killer

 

We won.   

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

You could have just ignored me.  

 

 

You could have just ignored this thread instead of commenting that you don't care about our defensive line play, linebacker play, and New England's running scheme since we won.    You forfeit your right to have an opinion if we lose.  

2 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

My point stands 

 

 

We won.   

Your point is peak simple minded bull####.  Extend that logic and see where it gets you. 

[Hebert19]

9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

No doubt and I’ve said from the start he plays a little light footed in the pros but that’s his game...he’s still almost always where he needs to be. Some (not many) lbs there can blow up a pulling guard but most times you just ask them to run fit, the whole 1/11 deal

Agree...just think he could be a little more affective with some better leverage. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

You could have just ignored this thread instead of commenting that you don't care about our defensive line play, linebacker play, and New England's running scheme since we won.    You forfeit your right to have an opinion if we lose.  

 

Your point is peak simple minded bull####.  Extend that logic and see where it gets you. 

 

Real Class there.  

 

 

 

But we didn't lose.   

 

[Big Turk]

7 minutes ago, colin said:

im even more convinced the scheme we run is just a bit too fragile for who we have out there.  penetration by a fast and fresh (cuz of depth) d line isn't there, and the no call holding might cook us on that.  only two LBs out there means they have to read and move with less margin of error.  milano seems like he can do that most of the time, edmunds seems paralyzed reading the play (he made some huge individual plays last year with his size and speed when he didn't have to scan like a camera all the time), klien is a straight up non starter getting starter money.  behind that, we have a bunch of tiny DBs.  they are capable players and play hard, but not the best tacklers and at times physically over matched.

 

i suppose w a lead this d COULD be nasty again (although hasn't been, even with a lead) but im starting to get convinced that 49 is simply out of position at MLB, and we need 3 lbs at least some of the time.

 

I think Edmunds is trying too hard because he knows his DLine isn't going to be able to keep him clean so he is trying to figure out how to get away from the blockers and/or trying to figure out the best way to attack things.

 

The scheme literally requires everyone to be doing their job properly to work the way it is intended. Nobody really knew Star doing what he does had that big of an impact on things in the 2nd and 3rd levels and how much it hurts their ability to get to the ball when he is not in there to keep them clean.  

[colin]

1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

 

I think Edmunds is trying too hard because he knows his DLine isn't going to be able to keep him clean so he is trying to figure out how to get away from the blockers and/or trying to figure out the best way to attack things.

 

The scheme literally requires everyone to be doing their job properly to work the way it is intended. Nobody really knew Star doing what he does had that big of an impact on things in the 2nd and 3rd levels and how much it hurts their ability to get to the ball when he is not in there to keep them clean.  

 

i dont' disagree, but we only ever have 2 LBs out there, and we have like no one healthy who can play the position.

 

i suppose a healthy milano and edmunds can change that, but i don't see it thus far.  the entire d line not being effective is the biggest issue.  we made mistakes bringing in who we did vs who we let go (shoulda grabbed clown and kept shak, cut murph, brought in a real 1 tech and maybe even kept phillips, i dunno).  most money in the nfl on the d line and no pass rush or run stuffing.  you hate to see it.

[Teddy KGB]

12 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

Real Class there.  

 

 

 

But we didn't lose.   

 

You’re not making any sense.    Grab a tall glass of ice water. 
 

Other people are allowed to start threads here too, you don’t have to act like this.  

Edited November 3, 2020 by Teddy KGB

[Jauronimo]

7 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

Real Class there.  

 

 

 

But we didn't lose.   

 

Real irony there.  A guy who made a public spectacle in the shoutbox about adding me to his ignore list can't help but respond and suggests in turn that I ignore his simple minded, non-contributions to a thread.  

 

No one said we lost. 

 

 

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, colin said:

 

i dont' disagree, but we only ever have 2 LBs out there, and we have like no one healthy who can play the position.

 

i suppose a healthy milano and edmunds can change that, but i don't see it thus far.  the entire d line not being effective is the biggest issue.  we made mistakes bringing in who we did vs who we let go (shoulda grabbed clown and kept shak, cut murph, brought in a real 1 tech and maybe even kept phillips, i dunno).  most money in the nfl on the d line and no pass rush or run stuffing.  you hate to see it.

 

Well...I wouldn't say none but it is inconsistent at best. There are times and even full games they do very well against the run. Raiders and Titans game come to mind.  First half of the Pats game even.

 

There are times they get a pass rush. Raiders and Jets games come to mind. 

 

But there are far too many times when these things don't happen.

[Jobot]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Josh Allen's game was far from perfect...the INT on a miscommunication between him and Diggs...the dropped pass to Davis in the EZ...a few more I can't think of right now, some missed opportunities.

 

And yet, we won.

 

I agree, that's why I think it's a good blue print unfortunately. Patriots aren't a great team and we could have easily lost. But I've mentioned this in previous posts, the Bills did what NE did to us for the past 20 years.. we let the other team 'lose' the game and didn't lose it ourselves.

[machine gun kelly]

14 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

So if I see one more person suggest that Edmunds is either unwilling or unable to take on an OLmen and shed, am I now free to slam my head into a wall out of frustration?

Make sure you’re wife videos it.  Just kidding.  Sal mentioned the other morning as well as the other morning guys not having a 1 technique Star type player is affecting more then expected Edmunds play.  It makes sense to me and in the Frazier interview, he eluded to the same.  It’s not an excuse, just more evidence this defense is reliant on each member playing a certain role.

[ganesh]

22 hours ago, Jobot said:

The blueprint to beat the Bills is run the ball and force Josh Allen to play a perfect game. It's a very good game plan if you don't make mistakes (Newton fumble)

If the Bills had lost the game, it wouldn't have been because of Josh Allen.   The failure would have been on that defense to stop a putrid Offense that has street undrafted FA as their starting WRs