Rubes Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, blacklabel said: I'm pretty sure they didn't expect he'd have to play this much but because Milano has been injured, they've needed him out there. Although, later in the game on Sunday, I did start to notice that Milano was out there for most of the last two Patriot drives. Hopefully he's a full go this week. I'd say unlikely. He was out there but he did not look anywhere like his old self, missing tackles. Still struggling to use that one arm, and I doubt it improves significantly in a week. I'd sure like to see it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 I am not giving up my donuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 He might be the slowest most unathletic LB to ever play in Buffalo. And I've followed this team for 50 years. Beane should just pay him in 30 year installments from his own income. We literally and figuratively have ZERO LB's. Edmunds has regressed. Milano is always hurt. And AJ is completely worthless. I wouldn't insult the bag of chips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penfield45 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Add Trent Murphy to that list also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTruster Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: This. Frankly, all of Beane's off-season FA acquisitions on defense have been huge disappointments so far, at least to me. He's spent more money than he would have on Shaq and Phillips, and gotten less performance. yeah, Shaq was a great edge setter, got big and strong; they just did not want to pay him... probably should have, but then TreWhite prob gets away... TreWhite is prob more valuable than a run first 3-4 edge setter. Cap will be low next year, probably good they didn't break the bank for Phillips and Shaq ? Teams with a lot of big contracts will be restructuring and therefore dead-cap-=exposure crushed to make the Cap limit next year. Seems Beane will be able to largely avoid that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 24 minutes ago, blacklabel said: I'm pretty sure they didn't expect he'd have to play this much but because Milano has been injured, they've needed him out there. Although, later in the game on Sunday, I did start to notice that Milano was out there for most of the last two Patriot drives. Hopefully he's a full go this week. I doubt it. He's still playing severely limited. Bangedup Bills pointed out that he's wearing a harness similar to this that literally prevents him from raising and extending one arm (and is thus literally limiting his ability to tackle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTruster Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: This. Frankly, all of Beane's off-season FA acquisitions on defense have been huge disappointments so far, at least to me. He's spent more money than he would have on Shaq and Phillips, and gotten less performance. yeah, Shaq was a great edge setter, got big and strong; they just did not want to pay him... probably should have, but then TreWhite prob gets away... TreWhite is prob more valuable than a run first 3-4 edge setter. Cap will be low next year, probably good they didn't break the bank for Phillips and Shaq ? Teams with a lot of big contracts will be restructuring and therefore dead-cap-=exposure crushed to make the Cap limit next year. Seems Beane will be able to largely avoid that yep, I'll be a lot happier when Edmunds and Milano are healthy and out there together (probably after the bye for Milano would be my guess, given how long it took Mongo to get back) .. Klein is not very effective. Put 44 out there. Can't be any worse than 54. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 20 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said: yeah, Shaq was a great edge setter, got big and strong; they just did not want to pay him... probably should have, but then TreWhite prob gets away... TreWhite is prob more valuable than a run first 3-4 edge setter. Cap will be low next year, probably good they didn't break the bank for Phillips and Shaq ? Teams with a lot of big contracts will be restructuring and therefore dead-cap-=exposure crushed to make the Cap limit next year. Seems Beane will be able to largely avoid that I don't think what they did on DL has any influence on our ability to extend Tre. Look at the numbers: When you sum up what we paid for Addison, Butler, Jefferson, and Klein we could have re-signed Shaq and Jordan Phillips, a good LB, and probably a coule of depth pieces at DT as well: Addison 3 yr/$30 mil $13.25M guaranteed ($10M 2020 cap) Butler 2 yr/$15 mil $9.5M guaranteed ($7.3M 2020 cap) Jefferson 2 yr/$13.8M $6.25M guaranteed ($6.75M 2020 cap) ------------------------------------------------------------- $24M cap and Klein 3 yr/$18M guaranteed $9.7 guaranteed at signing ($6M 2020 cap) That's $30M cap this year vs. Lawson 3 yr/30M $20M guaranteed ($10.8M 2020 cap) Phillips 3 yr/30M $18.5M guaranteed ($4M 2020 cap) -------------------------------------------------- $14.8M cap this year Seems pretty clear that Beane could have re-upped both Shaq and Phillips for a lesser cap hit this year and similar money overall. I think in Beane's viewpoint, the difference is: 1) 3 bodies instead of 2, for a HC/DC who are big into DL rotation 2) the length of the contracts and the guaranteed money, which may be critical assuming we need to sign Josh to a new deal. IMO, Beane made a valuation mistake, in that in our D, I think Shaq and Phillips were both "clicking" and helping to make the whole be greater than the sum of the parts. And clearly over-valued AJ Klein. Maybe Addison, Butler and Jefferson can "bring it" as well, but right now, for whatever reason, they aren't. Perhaps changing DL coaches may also have been a mistake. But the real killer is that it's all predicated on the development of homegrown talent Harrison Phillips, Ed Oliver, and AJ Epenesa. If we whiffed on those guys we're in big trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: The problem is his contract. Any FO with access to film won’t take it. So you're saying the Jets are our only hope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Why would someone give a bag of ***** for a hotdog, pretzel or donuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, blacklabel said: I'm pretty sure they didn't expect he'd have to play this much but because Milano has been injured, they've needed him out there. Although, later in the game on Sunday, I did start to notice that Milano was out there for most of the last two Patriot drives. Hopefully he's a full go this week. If you didn't expect him to play much then why waste $10M guaranteed. I know we run this ridiculous 4-2 but if we don't get some serious LB help we won't be able to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 What makes the Klein move even more of a head scratcher is the fact that I was unsigned and available at the vet minimum at the time they signed him. True, I have no skills whatsoever but then again, neither does he. My much lower price tag should have tipped the scales my way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 That missed tackle on White or Harris (can't remember) for the big gainer where he got stiff armed and dropped in the open field and that missed tackle on Burkhead on 3rd and 1 he could've had for a loss was all I needed to see. He's really bad! Marlowe missing Harris on the TD run and T. Johnson on the 2pt. conversion was also quite dreadful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Rubes said: I'd say unlikely. He was out there but he did not look anywhere like his old self, missing tackles. Still struggling to use that one arm, and I doubt it improves significantly in a week. I'd sure like to see it, though. With Phillips and Dodson both on IR i think they had to play him a little bit just because klein is unplayable on 3rd downs. They tried Andre smith some too (he actually played more than milano in this one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 37 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I don't think what they did on DL has any influence on our ability to extend Tre. Look at the numbers: When you sum up what we paid for Addison, Butler, Jefferson, and Klein we could have re-signed Shaq and Jordan Phillips, a good LB, and probably a coule of depth pieces at DT as well: Addison 3 yr/$30 mil $13.25M guaranteed ($10M 2020 cap) Butler 2 yr/$15 mil $9.5M guaranteed ($7.3M 2020 cap) Jefferson 2 yr/$13.8M $6.25M guaranteed ($6.75M 2020 cap) ------------------------------------------------------------- $24M cap and Klein 3 yr/$18M guaranteed $9.7 guaranteed at signing ($6M 2020 cap) That's $30M cap this year vs. Lawson 3 yr/30M $20M guaranteed ($10.8M 2020 cap) Phillips 3 yr/30M $18.5M guaranteed ($4M 2020 cap) -------------------------------------------------- $14.8M cap this year Seems pretty clear that Beane could have re-upped both Shaq and Phillips for a lesser cap hit this year and similar money overall. I think in Beane's viewpoint, the difference is: 1) 3 bodies instead of 2, for a HC/DC who are big into DL rotation 2) the length of the contracts and the guaranteed money, which may be critical assuming we need to sign Josh to a new deal. IMO, Beane made a valuation mistake, in that in our D, I think Shaq and Phillips were both "clicking" and helping to make the whole be greater than the sum of the parts. And clearly over-valued AJ Klein. Maybe Addison, Butler and Jefferson can "bring it" as well, but right now, for whatever reason, they aren't. Perhaps changing DL coaches may also have been a mistake. But the real killer is that it's all predicated on the development of homegrown talent Harrison Phillips, Ed Oliver, and AJ Epenesa. If we whiffed on those guys we're in big trouble. You're right. If it was just Shaq & Jordan it would be one argument. But he has basically whiffed on 4 players. Klein, Butler, Jefferson and to a lesser degree Addison. Throw in Harry playing awful and Star opting out, no wonder this defense has collapsed from the previous 2 seasons. Beane screwed up plain and simple. Bringing in Lee is just a bandaid. In no scenario can I see our defense stopping Wilson, Rothliesberger or Murray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 I hate to be mean but... What if instead we traded Klein for an 8th round pick and to sweeten the deal we threw in the bag of donuts, hot pretzel, and hot dog. And maybe some wings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: The problem is his contract. Any FO with access to film won’t take it. yet somehow we wrote it not the proudest move, but such is life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTruster Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 43 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I don't think what they did on DL has any influence on our ability to extend Tre. Look at the numbers: When you sum up what we paid for Addison, Butler, Jefferson, and Klein we could have re-signed Shaq and Jordan Phillips, a good LB, and probably a coule of depth pieces at DT as well: Addison 3 yr/$30 mil $13.25M guaranteed ($10M 2020 cap) Butler 2 yr/$15 mil $9.5M guaranteed ($7.3M 2020 cap) Jefferson 2 yr/$13.8M $6.25M guaranteed ($6.75M 2020 cap) ------------------------------------------------------------- $24M cap and Klein 3 yr/$18M guaranteed $9.7 guaranteed at signing ($6M 2020 cap) That's $30M cap this year vs. Lawson 3 yr/30M $20M guaranteed ($10.8M 2020 cap) Phillips 3 yr/30M $18.5M guaranteed ($4M 2020 cap) -------------------------------------------------- $14.8M cap this year Seems pretty clear that Beane could have re-upped both Shaq and Phillips for a lesser cap hit this year and similar money overall. I think in Beane's viewpoint, the difference is: 1) 3 bodies instead of 2, for a HC/DC who are big into DL rotation 2) the length of the contracts and the guaranteed money, which may be critical assuming we need to sign Josh to a new deal. IMO, Beane made a valuation mistake, in that in our D, I think Shaq and Phillips were both "clicking" and helping to make the whole be greater than the sum of the parts. And clearly over-valued AJ Klein. Maybe Addison, Butler and Jefferson can "bring it" as well, but right now, for whatever reason, they aren't. Perhaps changing DL coaches may also have been a mistake. But the real killer is that it's all predicated on the development of homegrown talent Harrison Phillips, Ed Oliver, and AJ Epenesa. If we whiffed on those guys we're in big trouble. hmm.. yeah must be a numbers game.. more bodies for the same $$. I'm sure it all made sense, assuming Star comes back and eats up two guys every down, which he didn't -- Beane didn't see that one coming... all the bulk from last year gone. Trying to do it with rotation this year instead... Tough to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, blacklabel said: I'm pretty sure they didn't expect he'd have to play this much but because Milano has been injured, they've needed him out there. Although, later in the game on Sunday, I did start to notice that Milano was out there for most of the last two Patriot drives. Hopefully he's a full go this week. I'm sure you're correct that they weren't expecting AJ Klein to have to play this much, but if you're looking for a guy who can back up your starters - you need one who can, you know, actually BACK UP YOUR STARTERS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome007 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Still bagging on Murphy, hey guys? He was good at one point. IDK if Klein was but wow, he's bad now. But as depth, he's OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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