14 Positives on Marlins

[teef]

5 minutes ago, cd1 said:

 

Child at Victor daycare center tests positive for COVID-19

https://13wham.com/news/local/child-at-victor-daycare-center-tests-positive-for-covid-19

this is at my child's day care, in her room.

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, PetermansRedemption said:

I don’t agree with the herd immunity theory, but I have to adamantly disagree with the bolded part. I hear some people spouting this off. I haven’t seen one legitimate source that says this coronavirus offers no immunity. The one study I’ve seen done states that immunity lasts a minimum of 3 months (might be 2, but I’m working on the source). This would also be discounting the fact that this is NOT the first coronavirus. It’s naive to think this is the coronavirus to break all the rules of past coronavirus’. MERS and SARS both have degrees of immunity varying from 6 months to 2 years. 

When people think of post-virus immunity, they typically think forever, like measles, smallpox, etc. Not a few weeks or months. That type of immunity is effectively useles sin a country that's operating like the US.

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/studies-report-rapid-loss-of-covid-19-antibodies-67650

[BringBackFergy]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

For what its worth, my wife is also a teacher. We are all for reopening the schools. 

My wife as well.

[teef]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

their most recent position does not support this

in what regard?

[Billl]

3 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

I don’t agree with the herd immunity theory, but I have to adamantly disagree with the bolded part. I hear some people spouting this off. I haven’t seen one legitimate source that says this coronavirus offers no immunity. The one study I’ve seen done states that immunity lasts a minimum of 3 months (might be 2, but I’m working on the source). This would also be discounting the fact that this is NOT the first coronavirus. It’s naive to think this is the coronavirus to break all the rules of past coronavirus’. MERS and SARS both have degrees of immunity varying from 6 months to 2 years. 

When people talk about “herd immunity”, it’s generally assumed that they mean permanent immunity rather than some short term resistance.

[WEATHER DOT COM]

4 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Earlier in this thread someone suggested that if even one kid or teacher could be affected by COVID-19, schools should not reopen.  That is what I mean by "won't have the conversation."

 

Must have missed that.

 

4 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Our basic starting point needs to be that schools should reopen.  Then we need to figure out how to make it happen. If there are hot spots, or schools that can't reopen safely, we should not open those schools. 

 

That's the starting point in a non-Covid world. The problem is most of the country right now is a hot spot and/or has schools that can't reopen safely - which kind of edits the starting point, since it's an impossibility.

 

We agree in general, however in my opinion, we're already past the point of no return for having a normal school year in 2020-2021. 

[PetermansRedemption]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

When people talk about “herd immunity”, it’s generally assumed that they mean permanent immunity rather than some short term resistance.

I don’t subscribe to the herd immunity theory. I give no credence to it when it’s mentioned. I was simply replying to people who want to imply this virus provides no post infection immunity. That statement is just blatantly false. 

[apuszczalowski]

59 minutes ago, sullim4 said:

 

This is what I think has to be done.  You have to keep all 32 teams in their own controlled, training camp type situation with next to zero contact with the outside world.  As I said in another thread, soldiers are asked to perform tours of duty that last a year.  This would last 5 months for folks making serious dough.

 

Daily testing is of limited value when positive tests take days to show up.  Buyouts of hotels and meals are cheap relative to losing this season's NFL TV money.

But Soldiers aren't millionaires divas with entourages that are needed to stroke their egos 24-7. How can they be expected to make it a few months in a quarantine.

 

also, this is the same approach that Baseball has taken with each team quarantining to their own bubbles without access to the outside and here we are....

[plenzmd1]

5 minutes ago, teef said:

in what regard?

they wanted to make sure their position was that schools should reopen as determined by science and local health officials, not politicians, or unions, or school board members who are not health officials. 

 

Trump was using the first statement to say all schools should open, and the AAP potion now is open where smart and safe.

 

Politics meaning like the LA teachers union saying will not open till police defunded etc...cause that should enter into the discussion of safety at schools

 

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/education/la-teachers-union-says-schools-cant-reopen-unless-charter-schools-get

Edited July 27, 2020 by plenzmd1

[BullBuchanan]

4 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

That is just sort of where our politics are.  Earlier in this thread someone suggested that if even one kid or teacher could be affected by COVID-19, schools should not reopen.  That is what I mean by "won't have the conversation."  That is silly and a comment that doesn't serve a purpose.  Our basic starting point needs to be that schools should reopen.  Then we need to figure out how to make it happen. If there are hot spots, or schools that can't reopen safely, we should not open those schools.  I'm not pulling that commentary out of thin air. That comes straight from the White House. It also comports with what the AAP is saying.  And, I imagine at least, you and most people generally agree with this approach.  Yet, for whatever reason, this is controversial. 

Why should our starting point be that "schools need to reopen"? Who agreed to that? I'm not saying its wrong, but why do you get to set the terms?

This comes down to the value of life in preventable deaths and disability, and the party of "pro-life" and "family values" has taken a very hypocritical, but not unsurprising, stance here.

People talking about re-opening are looking downfield before they've caught the ball, and we all know how that works out.

[PetermansRedemption]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

When people think of post-virus immunity, they typically think forever, like measles, smallpox, etc. Not a few weeks or months. That type of immunity is effectively useles sin a country that's operating like the US.

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/studies-report-rapid-loss-of-covid-19-antibodies-67650

There are very few viruses that offer infinite immunity. People who think of post virus immunity in terms of forever are simply misinformed. 

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

I don’t subscribe to the herd immunity theory. I give no credence to it when it’s mentioned. I was simply replying to people who want to imply this virus provides no post infection immunity. That statement is just blatantly false. 

That's just semantics. It's effectively true.

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, teef said:

in what regard?

‘No reason not to in NY’

[PetermansRedemption]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

That's just semantics. It's effectively true.

It’s not true at all. It’s pure false. Proven false. Show me the source that mentions no post infection Covid immunity. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by PetermansRedemption

[aristocrat]

5 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

I really don’t think the spikes were substantially from the protests... more people letting their guard down too much in general.

 

(I’m someone who is disgusted with the media’s hypocrisy around coverage of these “peaceful” protests, by the way)

 

well the timing certainly doesn't bode well for it.  end of may they start...mid june massive spikes.  i had no issue with the protests and not what i'm talking about.  massive amounts of people together, touching etc was just the spark the virus needed unfortunately.    

[Rico]

I blame the Dolphins, ***** Miami.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

Must have missed that.

 

 

That's the starting point in a non-Covid world. The problem is most of the country right now is a hot spot and/or has schools that can't reopen safely - which kind of edits the starting point, since it's an impossibility.

 

We agree in general, however in my opinion, we're already past the point of no return for having a normal school year in 2020-2021. 

 

I think that is a bit misleading. Here is what I mean: we usually describe the numbers in terms of "how is that state doing."  So, for example, New York was doing very badly early on.  Well, that wasn't quite true. New York City was doing very badly. The rest of the State, more or less, did quite well.  The same is true for Arizona (Phoenix); California (L.A.); etc. I would wager that more American schools can reopen than cannot. But, it is a case by case analysis.  

 

In addition, all districts should plan on reopening from a purely practical standpoint. It is easier to cancel school than it is to try to start it back up.  

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

I live in Fl and Gov. Desantis is acting like Trump in this. Deny , deflect. And the kicker is he's blaming others from the NE.

These days the CDC is a Trump mouthpiece spewing lies. Other countries are at a point where they can play baseball (S. Korea) because they took this seriously from the beginning, while our leadership said "it's just a flu, we're fine".

 

I've told you this once before and I'll say it again, you're awful smart for someone who's Dopey!

[plenzmd1]

11 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

I consider myself to be a centrist on most things, but lately, there's only one side of the political debate that I never seem able to have a rational discussion with, and it's rarely the line of argument coming from the right side of the aisle.   

I am an independent as well, i encounter the most resistance on the other side..its all " follow the science" till the science does not agree with politics.

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Why should our starting point be that "schools need to reopen"? Who agreed to that? I'm not saying its wrong, but why do you get to set the terms?

This comes down to the value of life in preventable deaths and disability, and the party of "pro-life" and "family values" has taken a very hypocritical, but not unsurprising, stance here.

People talking about re-opening are looking downfield before they've caught the ball, and we all know how that works out.

Cause it is proven that kids suffer when not in class, especially minority and immigrant children. If that is not the case, just close the schools permanently, no need for them correct?

[RiotAct]

Just now, aristocrat said:

 

well the timing certainly doesn't bode well for it.  end of may they start...mid june massive spikes.  i had no issue with the protests and not what i'm talking about.  massive amounts of people together, touching etc was just the spark the virus needed unfortunately.    

The protests definitely didn’t help, that’s for sure.  The public figures normalizing and encouraging the mass gatherings (while just having gotten finished lambasting the much smaller lockdown protests a month prior) was disgusting.

 

1 minute ago, PetermansRedemption said:

It’s not true at all. It’s pure false. Proven false. 

yeah havent people already tested positive for it again recently after having it in March/April?

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Why should our starting point be that "schools need to reopen"? Who agreed to that? I'm not saying its wrong, but why do you get to set the terms?

This comes down to the value of life in preventable deaths and disability, and the party of "pro-life" and "family values" has taken a very hypocritical, but not unsurprising, stance here.

People talking about re-opening are looking downfield before they've caught the ball, and we all know how that works out.

 

Like I said, @wAcKy ZeBrA, this is the stuff I'm talking about. It's about politics. Not doing what's right. 

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, PetermansRedemption said:

It’s not true at all. It’s pure false. Proven false. Show me the source that mentions no post infection Covid immunity. 

I already did. People are reporting no antibodies after weeks or months. When we've had a raging pandemic for 5 months with no signs of slowing down, that means it could continue in perpetuity.

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Like I said, @wAcKy ZeBrA, this is the stuff I'm talking about. It's about politics. Not doing what's right. 

Politics? Maybe from you. I only care about my country.

[billsfan89]

9 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

I really don’t think the spikes were substantially from the protests... more people letting their guard down too much in general.

 

(I’m someone who is disgusted with the media’s hypocrisy around coverage of these “peaceful” protests, by the way)

 

The protests were according to research only responsible for a small part of the surge. Opening up too much for Memorial day and then July 4th was responsible.

 

Places like Texas opening up bars were much more responsible for the surge than protests. I too questioned the likelihood of protests leading to cases and due to almost all of these protests taking place outdoors and high mask usage it appears they weren't too bad at spreading the illness.

[Virgil]

I really wish we knew who patient zero was for them and where they've been outside of the clubhouse.  Between Dak and the NBA player caught going to a strip club, I want to know if this came from someone ignoring the COVID rule and being stupid, or COVID just finding it's way through the process.

 

I get it, COVID is COVID, but like the NFL is trying to do, players should be held accountable for taking unnecessary risks; if that is the case here.  It is terrifying though how quickly it spread through the clubhouse.

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, RiotAct said:

The protests definitely didn’t help, that’s for sure.  The public figures normalizing and encouraging the mass gatherings (while just having gotten finished lambasting the much smaller lockdown protests a month prior) was disgusting.

 

yeah havent people already tested positive for it again recently after having it in March/April?

Yea, but he's saying because you're immune for 4 weeks, that my statement of "no immunity" is technical false bECaUsE 4 wEeKs iSnT zEro.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I already did. People are reporting no antibodies after weeks or months. When we've had a raging pandemic for 5 months with no signs of slowing down, that means it could continue in perpetuity.

Politics? Maybe from you. I only care about my country.

 

Says the guy who's only meaningful contribution is "this comes down to the value of life in preventable deaths and disability, and the party of "pro-life" and "family values" has taken a very hypocritical, but not unsurprising, stance here." Tell me more about how this is not politics. 

[Billl]

6 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Why should our starting point be that "schools need to reopen"? Who agreed to that? I'm not saying its wrong, but why do you get to set the terms?

This comes down to the value of life in preventable deaths and disability, and the party of "pro-life" and "family values" has taken a very hypocritical, but not unsurprising, stance here.

People talking about re-opening are looking downfield before they've caught the ball, and we all know how that works out.

Exactly.  The starting point should be “kids shouldn’t die unnecessarily”.  That doesn’t mean that schools can’t be open until we can guarantee zero kids could possibly die.  That’s simply unrealistic, but it should be the starting point.  From there we can begin to assess what we are capable of allowing our kids to do without subjecting them to unreasonable levels of danger.

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Says the guy who's only meaningful contribution is "this comes down to the value of life in preventable deaths and disability, and the party of "pro-life" and "family values" has taken a very hypocritical, but not unsurprising, stance here." Tell me more about how this is not politics. 

Because one party has politicized a pandemic and made it about identity politics and "freedoms" and the constitution or whatever. The house is burning down and while most people are trying to fix it, one specific group of people is trying to say we should be trying to move back in because 5sqft of the livingroom is fine.

[Mickey]

1 hour ago, BringBackFergy said:

The point (again) is let's see how these 14 players fare with the virus. Will they recover from the symptoms quickly? Will they feel no symptoms at all? Will they require hospitalization? Again, 14 positive cases is just that...positive cases. At some point, the phrase "positive case" has been modified to mean "death sentence, morgues, tractor trailer coolers for dead bodies, lung scarring, fetus death". 

 

Sorry, I missed the memo on "positive cases" being redefined to mean "instant death". Home Depot is having a sale on straw this week for all your straw man building needs.

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

4 minutes ago, Billl said:

Exactly.  The starting point should be “kids shouldn’t die unnecessarily”.  That doesn’t mean that schools can’t be open until we can guarantee zero kids could possibly die.  That’s simply unrealistic, but it should be the starting point.  From there we can begin to assess what we are capable of allowing our kids to do without subjecting them to unreasonable levels of danger.

 

Well, the science is pretty clear that COVID-19 isn't particularly dangerous for children. Fun fact: the CDC has only recorded 12 pediatric deaths due to COVID-19. For reference, the flu took 174 children this year, and the year before it took 400 children.  We good now? 

 

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Because one party has politicized a pandemic and made it about identity politics and "freedoms" and the constitution or whatever. The house is burning down and while most people are trying to fix it, one specific group of people is trying to say we should be trying to move back in because 5sqft of the livingroom is fine.

 

Wow

Edited July 27, 2020 by JoshAllenHasBigHands

[billsfan89]

2 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I really wish we knew who patient zero was for them and where they've been outside of the clubhouse.  Between Dak and the NBA player caught going to a strip club, I want to know if this came from someone ignoring the COVID rule and being stupid, or COVID just finding it's way through the process.

 

I get it, COVID is COVID, but like the NFL is trying to do, players should be held accountable for taking unnecessary risks; if that is the case here.  It is terrifying though how quickly it spread through the clubhouse.

 

The league has to do its best to protect players from themselves. Not just to keep the league operating but to protect the older more vulnerable coaching and support staff's.

 

The NFL needs to formulate a bubble plan asap. Have each division be in a bubble and then have other divisions travel to their bubbles. Find a way because right now there is no likelihood that hoping for "personal responsibility" is going to work. 

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Well, the science is pretty clear that COVID-19 isn't particularly dangerous for children. Fun fact: the CDC has only recorded 12 pediatric deaths due to COVID-19. For reference, the flu took 174 children this year, and the year before it took 400 children.  We good now? 

Dangerous can't be quantified by just deaths. Completely healthy young people are having strokes, heart attacks and organ failure possibly due to thickening of blood.

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

The protests were according to research only responsible for a small part of the surge. Opening up too much for Memorial day and then July 4th was responsible.

 

Places like Texas opening up bars were much more responsible for the surge than protests. I too questioned the likelihood of protests leading to cases and due to almost all of these protests taking place outdoors and high mask usage it appears they weren't too bad at spreading the illness.

 

Cool - So let's allow fans at sporting events in limited capacity.   Outside, wear masks - no problem.

 

I am all for the protests, but it's absolutely hilarious when people try to convince others they didn't play much of a part in the spiking cases we saw after that.   Population density seems to be driving this, and people crowded together in the streets - masks/no masks - is pretty dense.

 

Also, bars are a problem for sure... but if we want to blame red state Texas, what's California's issue?  

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

5 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I really wish we knew who patient zero was for them and where they've been outside of the clubhouse.  Between Dak and the NBA player caught going to a strip club, I want to know if this came from someone ignoring the COVID rule and being stupid, or COVID just finding it's way through the process.

 

I get it, COVID is COVID, but like the NFL is trying to do, players should be held accountable for taking unnecessary risks; if that is the case here.  It is terrifying though how quickly it spread through the clubhouse.

 

Just heard an interview on the radio, didn't catch all of it, so not sure who it was from the Marlins who stated it didn't originate when the team was still located in Miami, it started after they left.  So the people on the air connecting the dots were figuring he was implying it started when they went to Atlanta for an exhibition game.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

Dangerous can't be quantified by just deaths. Completely healthy young people are having strokes, heart attacks and organ failure possibly due to thickening of blood.

 

You revealed yourself as not being a serious person to respond to a while back.  Hence the "wow." 

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Well, the science is pretty clear that COVID-19 isn't particularly dangerous for children. Fun fact: the CDC has only recorded 12 pediatric deaths due to COVID-19. For reference, the flu took 174 children this year, and the year before it took 400 children.  We good now? 

 

Wow

 

The CDC has said children 10 to 19 (a vast amount of children going to school) can spread the illness. It just seems like a real risk to reopen schools. Unless schools can have a coherent plan to social distance and mandate masks and have PPE for teachers and staff. 

 

I get that there is benefit to children being in class for their education but unless there is a way to mitigate the risks coherently I think reopening schools is a bad idea. 

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

You revealed yourself as not being a serious person to respond to a while back.  Hence the "wow." 

And you believe you're not politicizing a virus, so lol. Take a look in the mirror, sport.

[WEATHER DOT COM]

3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Well, the science is pretty clear that COVID-19 isn't particularly dangerous for children. Fun fact: the CDC has only recorded 12 pediatric deaths due to COVID-19. For reference, the flu took 174 children this year, and the year before it took 400 children.  We good now? 

 

The science is pretty clear how dangerous COVID-19 is to people above 65 years of age and those with underlying conditions regardless of age. There are dozens of teachers, staff, bus drivers, etc. that fall into this category. Their health is required for students to learn appropriately.

 

Also, any fact that talks about pediatric deaths is not fun. I think we should all be able to agree on that.

[BringBackFergy]

3 minutes ago, Mickey said:

 

Sorry, I missed the memo on "positive cases" being redefined to mean "instant death". Home Depot is having a sale on straw this week for all your straw man building needs. 

 

I can't make it to Home Depot this week...I'm watching the "death ticker" on CNN and have $100 on the overs for elderly, diabetics and children learning shapes and colors.

(I figured I'd draft your response for you because this is how emotionally charged, uber intelligent folks view anyone who might see things differently)

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

 

The CDC has said children 10 to 19 (a vast amount of children going to school) can spread the illness. It just seems like a real risk to reopen schools. Unless schools can have a coherent plan to social distance and mandate masks and have PPE for teachers and staff. 

 

I get that there is benefit to children being in class for their education but unless there is a way to mitigate the risks coherently I think reopening schools is a bad idea. 

 

That is true. And I dont mean for my comment to suggest that there are not risks associated with opening schools. Its just important that all the facts are right.  The fact that children are not at risk for this disease is an important fact of which people need to be aware, but which they are not. 

 

To be frank, there will be risk up until the point we have a vaccine.  Waiting that long is not a realistic option. It just isn't. I think we can all agree on that, right? Maybe I presume too much.