14 Positives on Marlins

[BullBuchanan]

13 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Theres no "waves."

 

This isn't the flu.  Most countries that immediately headed for their basements never got the saturation it needed to die out.  

 

It needs to run its course.  Shutting down life indefinitely is not a solution. 

 

The analogy of it being a forest fire is spot on.  

You might as well wear a flashing sign that says you don't understand science.  Letting it "run its course" sounds like something my grandpa would've said in the 1950's. There's absolutely zero benefit to that. Viruses don't die out when they get bored of infecting people, but when they can't continue to spread.

First of all, it appears as though there is not immunity from this virus after contracting it. Second, in order to "let it run its course" you're talking about million dead in the US alone and millions more with permanent organ damage, strokes, etc. Stop the spread, kill the virus. No amount of "toughen up" fixes that.

Edited July 27, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[The Dean]

Philies/Yankees game cancelled.

 

What's going on now is still part of the first wave. If there is a second wave, it will be next year, the year after or even after that.

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I don't know who you are quoting there.  I googled a piece of your quote, and I found nothing. It goes without saying that there are prerequisites to getting to a place where we can reopen schools. The problem is that the posturing does even get us there. On one side, all that is being said is that we have to reopen. On the other side, they are only saying that we shouldn't even try.  Obsessing over this stage of the debate means we can't get to a place where we figure out how to meet the prereqs necessary to open schools.  

 

Unfortunately, that stage of the debate IS important since one side seems to feel there is an acceptable level of teacher and student deaths.

 

The acceptable amount of teacher deaths is zero.

 

The acceptable amount of student deaths is zero.

 

Plan the prereqs from there. If we can't, then we aren't ready to send them back.

[MJS]

53 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

Its not possible if you don't take precautions and do whats required

People who have been following every precaution can still get it because those that aren't can still spread it and the precautions are mostly to help you from spreading, not to prevent you from getting it. In places where they have taken it seriously and the majority of the people are following the recommendations/Orders, the spread has slowed down (Just look north where an entire country has less cases them some states have had deaths in a day.

 

And their policies aren't working to well if they are reopening and allowing vacationers to come from other areas 

Seems to follow major population centers to me. Areas that are less densely populated are less affected.

[plenzmd1]

15 minutes ago, Bill Lewes said:

 

 

interesting ... source?

 

14 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Where did you see that????????????????

Link? What professionals did you 'see'????

Very well sourced and researched article authored by 4 professors at Harvard's School of Public Health PLenty of links to studies to substantiate claims views.

 

May have to copy and paste link in incognito mode to get past paywall

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/07/20/opinion/listen-science-reopen-schools/

[MJS]

33 minutes ago, Dopey said:

I live in Fl and Gov. Desantis is acting like Trump in this. Deny , deflect. And the kicker is he's blaming others from the NE.

These days the CDC is a Trump mouthpiece spewing lies. Other countries are at a point where they can play baseball (S. Korea) because they took this seriously from the beginning, while our leadership said "it's just a flu, we're fine".

Oh, so we can't trust the CDC now? Then who do we trust? All the data out there is compromised then and nobody knows anything.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Unfortunately, that stage of the debate IS important since one side seems to feel there is an acceptable level of teacher and student deaths.

 

The acceptable amount of teacher deaths is zero.

 

The acceptable amount of student deaths is zero.

 

Plan the prereqs from there. If we can't, then we aren't ready to send them back.

 

So teachers are officially the only American worker exempt from risk? I mean, rhetorically, everything you say sounds great. It's just complete gibberish.  Let me give you some other comparisons: 

 

If even one teacher could die from a car accident on the way to work, school should be cancelled. 

 

If even one teacher could die from the flu, school should be cancelled. 

 

If even one teacher could die from slipping and falling on the steps, school should be cancelled. 

 

You need to start over with your baseline expectation. 

[SCBills]

21 minutes ago, Like A Mofo said:

Maybe its time to get, you know, priorities in order and shut down sports altogether and get this damn virus under control. And we can, you know, come together as 1 and fight this so we can all resume normalcy sooner. Putting band aids on this will not slow the spread at all.

 

I disagree.  We need to all be responsible - wear masks, socially distance etc., but locking down is the definition of a band-aid.   And that band-aid comes with a ton of side effects like job loss, business failure, suicide, drug abuse, psychological harm and educational impact to children etc..  I'm not saying act as if all is well, but this virus isn't going away... We simply have to learn how to live with it.  

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by SCBills

[plenzmd1]

7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Unfortunately, that stage of the debate IS important since one side seems to feel there is an acceptable level of teacher and student deaths.

 

The acceptable amount of teacher deaths is zero.

 

The acceptable amount of student deaths is zero.

 

Plan the prereqs from there. If we can't, then we aren't ready to send them back.

cmon , that's not doable. something like  30 kids die every year from the flu, 2017-2018 like 87..way more than will die from this..should we close schools every year during flu season

Edited July 27, 2020 by plenzmd1

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said:

cmon , that's not doable. something like  30 kids die every year from the flu last year,,87 in bad years..should we close schools every year?

 

8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Unfortunately, that stage of the debate IS important since one side seems to feel there is an acceptable level of teacher and student deaths.

 

The acceptable amount of teacher deaths is zero.

 

The acceptable amount of student deaths is zero.

 

Plan the prereqs from there. If we can't, then we aren't ready to send them back.

 

These kind of statements are about politics, not science.  I'm referring to Dr.Dawkenstein, of course, not plenzmd1. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by JoshAllenHasBigHands

[RiotAct]

1 hour ago, apuszczalowski said:

Nope, just have to wait for the weather to get warmer so it all goes away just like the Flu!

that’s even funnier the 2,000th time I heard someone repeat that!  You comedian, you.

[Chandler#81]

So, are the Yankees the 2020 champs??

 

YESSSS!

 

Number #28, Baby!?

[zonabb]

Can't wait for the NFL to absolutely implode, gonna be awesome watching these guys lose mountains of money as it already stands, hope they lose more. Can't even put into words how much I want this to fail. Most arrogant, greedy group of owners in any major sport, willing to sell their players, coaches, and staffs' families for profit none actually needs. 

 

 

[SCBills]

24 minutes ago, MJS said:

Seems to follow major population centers to me. Areas that are less densely populated are less affected.

 

Bingo.  I live in the South.  The rural areas are filled with people who refuse to wear masks and just act as if nothing is going on.  Can't really blame them too much though, because in the rural areas, this isn't really an issue.   

 

I live in Atlanta.  Everywhere I go in, and around, the city... People are, in fact, wearing masks.   Everywhere I go, and where I live, are where the hot spots leading to the massive surge of cases have been in Georgia.  

 

People just have talking points and stick with them.   I do believe in wearing masks, but if we're being real.. this has more to do with population density than it does mask philosophy.

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by SCBills

[teef]

30 minutes ago, Bill Lewes said:

 

 

interesting ... source?

the american academy for peds.  we had a long discussion with our peds as well concerning it.  they're on board.

30 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Where did you see that????????????????

 

pretty much everywhere.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

5 minutes ago, zonabb said:

Can't wait for the NFL to absolutely implode, gonna be awesome watching these guys lose mountains of money as it already stands, hope they lose more. Can't even put into words how much I want this to fail. Most arrogant, greedy group of owners in any major sport, willing to sell their players, coaches, and staffs' families for profit none actually needs. 

 

 

 

I guess you missed that whole #wewanttoplay thing

[plenzmd1]

9 minutes ago, zonabb said:

Can't wait for the NFL to absolutely implode, gonna be awesome watching these guys lose mountains of money as it already stands, hope they lose more. Can't even put into words how much I want this to fail. Most arrogant, greedy group of owners in any major sport, willing to sell their players, coaches, and staffs' families for profit none actually needs. 

 

 

wait to you see 1600 of the 2000 players going broke with no jobs this year...

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

12 minutes ago, teef said:

the american academy for peds.  we had a long discussion with our peds as well concerning it.  they're on board.

pretty much everywhere.

 

I am blown away by the number of people who are not aware of this. 

[PetermansRedemption]

2 hours ago, Seasons1992 said:

The NFL better do a bubble and start the season in October at this point.

Not trying to be an a**, but what would starting in October instead of September do? If anything, I would think a start around March would be best. Let the first round of vaccines make their rounds. Assuming all goes well with them. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by PetermansRedemption

[Billl]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

 

Countries like France, UK, Spain etc., are seeing dramatic increases in cases again.   We are definitely not alone in dealing with a second wave..  It's everywhere again.

 

We aren’t even to the second wave yet, though.  This is still the first go-round.

[4_kidd_4]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/27/health/florida-covid-children-hospitalizations/index.html

 

Age 17 & under cases and hospitalizations starting to spike in FLA.

[GoBills808]

21 minutes ago, teef said:

the american academy for peds.  we had a long discussion with our peds as well concerning it.  they're on board.

pretty much everywhere.

Not anymore they aren’t 

 

 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/us/american-academy-pediatrics-school-reopening.amp

[WEATHER DOT COM]

10 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I am blown away by the number of people who are not aware of this. 

 

You do realize they revised their original opinion on July 10th? It's not as simple as you and others are characterizing it.

 

https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2020/pediatricians-educators-and-superintendents-urge-a-safe-return-to-school-this-fall/

 

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), American Federation of Teachers (AFT), National Education Association (NEA) and AASA, The School Superintendents Association, join together today in the following statement on the safe return of students, teachers, and staff to schools:

“Educators and pediatricians share the goal of children returning safely to school this fall. Our organizations are committed to doing everything we can so that all students have the opportunity to safely resume in-person learning.

“We recognize that children learn best when physically present in the classroom. But children get much more than academics at school. They also learn social and emotional skills at school, get healthy meals and exercise, mental health support and other services that cannot be easily replicated online. Schools also play a critical role in addressing racial and social inequity. Our nation’s response to COVID-19 has laid bare inequities and consequences for children that must be addressed. This pandemic is especially hard on families who rely on school lunches, have children with disabilities, or lack access to Internet or health care.

“Returning to school is important for the healthy development and well-being of children, but we must pursue re-opening in a way that is safe for all students, teachers and staff. Science should drive decision-making on safely reopening schools. Public health agencies must make recommendations based on evidence, not politics. We should leave it to health experts to tell us when the time is best to open up school buildings, and listen to educators and administrators to shape how we do it.

“Local school leaders, public health experts, educators and parents must be at the center of decisions about how and when to reopen schools, taking into account the spread of COVID-19 in their communities and the capacities of school districts to adapt safety protocols to make in-person learning safe and feasible. For instance, schools in areas with high levels of COVID-19 community spread should not be compelled to reopen against the judgment of local experts.  A one-size-fits-all approach is not appropriate for return to school decisions.

“Reopening schools in a way that maximizes safety, learning, and the well-being of children, teachers, and staff will clearly require substantial new investments in our schools and campuses. We call on Congress and the administration to provide the federal resources needed to ensure that inadequate funding does not stand in the way of safely educating and caring for children in our schools. Withholding funding from schools that do not open in person fulltime would be a misguided approach, putting already financially strapped schools in an impossible position that would threaten the health of students and teachers.

“The pandemic has reminded so many what we have long understood: that educators are invaluable in children’s lives and that attending school in person offers children a wide array of health and educational benefits. For our country to truly value children, elected leaders must come together to appropriately support schools in safely returning students to the classroom and reopening schools.”

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

Hopefully everyone who's going to get the virus will get it in training camp and get it over with. Herd immunity in a small community is probably the way to go.

[teef]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Not anymore they aren’t 

 

 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/us/american-academy-pediatrics-school-reopening.amp

depends on the area.  where i am in ny, there's no real reason not to open.  this is coming from someone who has been very conservative about opening too.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

You do realize they revised their original opinion on July 10th? It's not as simple as you and others are characterizing it.

 

https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2020/pediatricians-educators-and-superintendents-urge-a-safe-return-to-school-this-fall/

 

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), American Federation of Teachers (AFT), National Education Association (NEA) and AASA, The School Superintendents Association, join together today in the following statement on the safe return of students, teachers, and staff to schools:

“Educators and pediatricians share the goal of children returning safely to school this fall. Our organizations are committed to doing everything we can so that all students have the opportunity to safely resume in-person learning.

“We recognize that children learn best when physically present in the classroom. But children get much more than academics at school. They also learn social and emotional skills at school, get healthy meals and exercise, mental health support and other services that cannot be easily replicated online. Schools also play a critical role in addressing racial and social inequity. Our nation’s response to COVID-19 has laid bare inequities and consequences for children that must be addressed. This pandemic is especially hard on families who rely on school lunches, have children with disabilities, or lack access to Internet or health care.

“Returning to school is important for the healthy development and well-being of children, but we must pursue re-opening in a way that is safe for all students, teachers and staff. Science should drive decision-making on safely reopening schools. Public health agencies must make recommendations based on evidence, not politics. We should leave it to health experts to tell us when the time is best to open up school buildings, and listen to educators and administrators to shape how we do it.

“Local school leaders, public health experts, educators and parents must be at the center of decisions about how and when to reopen schools, taking into account the spread of COVID-19 in their communities and the capacities of school districts to adapt safety protocols to make in-person learning safe and feasible. For instance, schools in areas with high levels of COVID-19 community spread should not be compelled to reopen against the judgment of local experts.  A one-size-fits-all approach is not appropriate for return to school decisions.

“Reopening schools in a way that maximizes safety, learning, and the well-being of children, teachers, and staff will clearly require substantial new investments in our schools and campuses. We call on Congress and the administration to provide the federal resources needed to ensure that inadequate funding does not stand in the way of safely educating and caring for children in our schools. Withholding funding from schools that do not open in person fulltime would be a misguided approach, putting already financially strapped schools in an impossible position that would threaten the health of students and teachers.

“The pandemic has reminded so many what we have long understood: that educators are invaluable in children’s lives and that attending school in person offers children a wide array of health and educational benefits. For our country to truly value children, elected leaders must come together to appropriately support schools in safely returning students to the classroom and reopening schools.”

 

Even the Trump administration doesn't disagree with this. I don't think anyone ever suggested there should be a "one-size-fits-all approach." I don't think anyone suggested that it would be easy, that it wouldn't require greater precautions.  The point I'm making is that there is a substantial contingent of the country that won't even have the conversation. 

[PetermansRedemption]

1 minute ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Hopefully everyone who's going to get the virus will get it in training camp and get it over with. Herd immunity in a small community is probably the way to go.

Probably just better to wait a few months for the vaccine if that’s the solution they were going to pursue. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by PetermansRedemption

[SmokinES3]

Guys, it's ok. Calm down and share some respiratory secretions laughing in your friend's face. Just follow the example of the experts and

we will get through this.

 

 

[WEATHER DOT COM]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

The point I'm making is that there is a substantial contingent of the country that won't even have the conversation. 

 

Who won't have the conversation? To me it seems like there is a substantial contingent that won't allow for any conversation other than send the kids back to school.

 

A great example of that is a certain contingent that misrepresents the opinion of the American Academy of Peds to make it fit their political agenda.

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Hopefully everyone who's going to get the virus will get it in training camp and get it over with. Herd immunity in a small community is probably the way to go.

Every time I see people talk about herd immunity, it just seems they have no idea what it actually means. If everyone has to get a virus for you to have "herd immunity" than there is no benefit at all. You might as well put everyone in a room and spray them with the virus to get it over with.  Herd immunity is only useful when there's a vaccine or natural immunity. Otherwise it's called getting infected.

This is also forgetting that there may be no post-infection immunity from this virus.

 

[teef]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Even the Trump administration doesn't disagree with this. I don't think anyone ever suggested there should be a "one-size-fits-all approach." I don't think anyone suggested that it would be easy, that it wouldn't require greater precautions.  The point I'm making is that there is a substantial contingent of the country that won't even have the conversation. 

each state will be different depending on  how their numbers are.  this is nothing new.  as i mentioned in another thread, our peds office released a letter about a week ago concerning the schools in our area re-opening.  they were fully on board considering whit reopening in this area in a responsible way.  they were absolutely blasted by calls to take it down, contrary to the evidence.  they were getting calls from people without children in the practice to take it down.  tons of public pressure.

 

i have a child entering into school this fall.  my wife and sister in law both work for the school system.  we have elderly parents.  we are both 100% on board with schools re-opening in our region.

[ALF]

2 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

Think maybe they played in Atlanta for exhibition games before traveling to Philly for their 3 game series there..edit.looks like they have been on the road since at least last Tuesday

 

Phillies - Yankees game postponed also

 

Phanatic doing his best to get the fans phired up

 

https://twitter.com/i/status/1287464409607147520

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, teef said:

depends on the area.  where i am in ny, there's no real reason not to open.  this is coming from someone who has been very conservative about opening too.

their most recent position does not support this

[cd1]

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

Please don't forget to post the link to the kid who went to daycare and spread it to 26 kids..if that happened i think  it is something that changes a lot of thoughts, including mine

TY

 

Child at Victor daycare center tests positive for COVID-19

https://13wham.com/news/local/child-at-victor-daycare-center-tests-positive-for-covid-19

[aristocrat]

the country was flattening the curve up until end of may towards middle of june when the huge spikes began.  we all knew the risks of mass protesting and we are seeing the results of that.  i didn't think we'd get on time football and have thought they'd start 4-6 weeks late.  Next couple weeks lets hope we see a decline from this latest spike.  

[SCBills]

22 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

Who won't have the conversation? To me it seems like there is a substantial contingent that won't allow for any conversation other than send the kids back to school.

 

A great example of that is a certain contingent that misrepresents the opinion of the American Academy of Peds to make it fit their political agenda.

 

I consider myself to be a centrist on most things, but lately, there's only one side of the political aisle that I never seem able to have a rational discussion with, and it's not those on the right side of the aisle.

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by SCBills

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

7 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

Who won't have the conversation? To me it seems like there is a substantial contingent that won't allow for any conversation other than send the kids back to school.

 

A great example of that is a certain contingent that misrepresents the opinion of the American Academy of Peds to make it fit their political agenda.

 

That is just sort of where our politics are.  Earlier in this thread someone suggested that if even one kid or teacher could be affected by COVID-19, schools should not reopen.  That is what I mean by "won't have the conversation."  That is silly and a comment that doesn't serve a purpose.  Our basic starting point needs to be that schools should reopen.  Then we need to figure out how to make it happen. If there are hot spots, or schools that can't reopen safely, we should not open those schools.  I'm not pulling that commentary out of thin air. That comes straight from the White House. It also comports with what the AAP is saying.  And, I imagine at least, you and most people generally agree with this approach.  Yet, for whatever reason, this is controversial. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by JoshAllenHasBigHands

[PetermansRedemption]

8 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Every time I see people talk about herd immunity, it just seems they have no idea what it actually means. If everyone has to get a virus for you to have "herd immunity" than there is no benefit at all. You might as well put everyone in a room and spray them with the virus to get it over with.  Herd immunity is only useful when there's a vaccine or natural immunity. Otherwise it's called getting infected.

This is also forgetting that there may be no post-infection immunity from this virus.

 

I don’t agree with the herd immunity theory, but I have to adamantly disagree with the bolded part. I hear some people spouting this off. I haven’t seen one legitimate source that says this coronavirus offers no immunity. The one study I’ve seen done states that immunity lasts a minimum of 3 months (might be 2, but I’m working on the source). This would also be discounting the fact that this is NOT the first coronavirus. It’s naive to think this is the coronavirus to break all the rules of past coronavirus’. MERS and SARS both have degrees of immunity varying from 6 months to 2 years. 
 

 

Edit: source https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/07/study-covid-19-antibodies-decay-quickly-after-mild-illness

 

It seems to be the only study that’s been published to date. The key word is immunity antibodies “BEGIN to decrease after 2-3 months”. Keep in mind this is for a mild illness. Of course, logically, your body wouldn’t produce as many antibodies for mild illness. 
 

However, a much larger study is needed to determine the true immunity status post positive. I would bet it ends up being in 4-8 month range based on initial results and past coronavirus antibody studies. There is pretty much zero chance it ends up being anything less than a couple of months. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by PetermansRedemption

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

4 minutes ago, teef said:

each state will be different depending on  how their numbers are.  this is nothing new.  as i mentioned in another thread, our peds office released a letter about a week ago concerning the schools in our area re-opening.  they were fully on board considering whit reopening in this area in a responsible way.  they were absolutely blasted by calls to take it down, contrary to the evidence.  they were getting calls from people without children in the practice to take it down.  tons of public pressure.

 

i have a child entering into school this fall.  my wife and sister in law both work for the school system.  we have elderly parents.  we are both 100% on board with schools re-opening in our region.

 

For what its worth, my wife is also a teacher. We are all for reopening the schools. 

[RiotAct]

3 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

the country was flattening the curve up until end of may towards middle of june when the huge spikes began.  we all knew the risks of mass protesting and we are seeing the results of that.  i didn't think we'd get on time football and have thought they'd start 4-6 weeks late.  Next couple weeks lets hope we see a decline from this latest spike.  

I really don’t think the spikes were substantially from the protests... more people letting their guard down too much in general.

 

(I’m someone who is disgusted with the media’s hypocrisy around coverage of these “peaceful” protests, by the way)