NFL Players Staging Revolt

[NoSaint]

17 minutes ago, SCBills said:

If we’re talking college, where the players aren’t paid, that’s one thing... but this is big business.  
 

They should never be forced to play, of course, but the bubble concept isn’t as hardcore as some are saying and it’s simply an inconvenience.  Ciara can likely join Russell Wilson in his teams bubble, I haven’t heard anyone state family can’t do that.  
 

If they keep turning down reasonable recommendations (bubble, helmets) and still want to be paid in full if the season isn’t a go, why should we believe they’re negotiating in good faith?   We now found out that all 32 teams have submitted plans that were approved by infectious disease experts. 
 

And, sure, it’s just a game, a game that generates massive revenues, creates a ton of jobs, drives local economies and, yes, has an entire entertainment/betting component.   
 

You can reduce most white collar jobs to a “just a game” as well.  Just instead of playing football for pay, they day-trade, financial plan, sell a product, sit on a board of such and such..  Unless you’re a civil servant of some sort... nobody “needs” you to play, advise, sell for any reason other than to drive the economy. 

 

 

without fans present the number of jobs will be drastically lower.

And many of those “game” professions have been at home.

 

listen, I don’t think they should get full paychecks to sit out. But if you think that’s a real hardline stance I don’t know that you should get a full paycheck either. It’s a union negotiation- don’t hang on every comment made.

And if they don’t play it’ll still all be ok.

4 minutes ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

If I had 100 million dollars and a baby on the way I wouldnt be "working" at all.

And yet here you are complaining that Russ isn’t 100% all in for any and all terms dropped in his lap 

[Mango]

This isn’t comparable to most of our situations. 95% of us are pushing product in some way. Whether it’s sales, writing code, cooking food, working at 7 11,we are just part of the supply chain in some way. 

 

NFL players ARE the product, so thoughts on “choosing” to work is drastically different than most of our experiences.

[reddogblitz]

They always tell us how much they love the fans. The fans need football ?. Give those you love what they need.  

 

I believe it will get worked out in time. Union things are never resolved until the last possible minute.

Edited July 20, 2020 by reddogblitz

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

This isn’t comparable to most of our situations. 95% of us are pushing product in some way. Whether it’s sales, writing code, cooking food, working at 7 11,we are just part of the supply chain in some way. 

 

NFL players ARE the product, so thoughts on “choosing” to work is drastically different than most of our experiences.

Just because this analogy fascinates me....

 

If the 7-11 workers don’t show... 7-11 isn’t open. 
 

If the cooks don’t cook and the waitstaff doesn’t show.. The restaurant isn’t open.  
 

Sure, most of us push product, but it all depends on how you view this.  I could easily flip it and say the product is the Buffalo Bills and the players/coaches are the cooks, waitstaff, and store managers pushing the product. 
 

I eat at a restaurant called Halls Chophouse because I like their steaks.  The head chef now may not be the head chef from last year, but I eat there because of the brand.  The waiter I get next time may be different than the waiter I got last time but I’m not eating there for the waiter, I’m eating there for the brand.  
 

I was a Bills fan under Tyrod Taylor and now Josh Allen.  Head Chef is different but the brand is the same.  
 

Take the Bills out of Buffalo and I’m not a fan anymore.  The Bills are the product. 
 

Edited July 20, 2020 by SCBills

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

If Russel Wilson is concerned about his pregnant wife's health, why doesn't he rent an apartment to live in and hire a nurse to stay with his wife?  Goodness knows he can afford it.

 

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

So can she.  But if he wants to sit out...

 

His wife can use this experience to write a song and probably make up Wilson's money for sitting out.

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Just because this analogy and debate of NFL = or does not = Business is fascinating to me..

 

If the 7-11 workers don’t show... 7-11 isn’t open. 
 

If the cooks don’t cook and the waitstaff doesn’t show.. The restaurant isn’t open.  
 

Sure, most of us push product, but it all depends on how you view this.  I could easily flip it and say the product is the Buffalo Bills and the players/coaches are the cooks, waitstaff, and store managers pushing the product. 

They are both the product and the labor. That’s what makes sports and entertainment different. At 7-11 you can find someone else to sell the slurpees. The slurpee is the product and the guy behind the counter is the labor. Tom Brady is the product and the labor. Without the guy at 7-11 they still have the slurpee. Without the players there is nothing to sell in the NFL. 

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They are both the product and the labor. That’s what makes sports and entertainment different. At 7-11 you can find someone else to sell the slurpees. The slurpee is the product and the guy behind the counter is the labor. Tom Brady is the product and the labor. Without the guy at 7-11 they still have the slurpee. Without the players there is nothing to sell in the NFL. 

On a remedial level, comparing to 7-11, ok, point taken.  
 

Let’s look at the white collar world.  
 

A financial advisor pushes product, but also sells themselves to the consumer.   Most people won’t invest without buying into the person they are investing with.  
 

Same with an insurance agent, or good salesman.  They sell product, but the relationship with the agent and/or salesman is equally important to the product they are pushing.   
 

They are also essentially the product and the labor.  Without the relationship built with the individual, there is no buy into the product. 
 

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by SCBills

[Big Turk]

Doesn't seem anything like a revolt. Just seems more like a "Hey, can you actually let us know what the ***** is going on here and how you will handle these situations?"

 

 

[Utah John]

I'm not going to read umpteen pages of comments to see if anyone posted this --

 

I'm betting there aren't any undrafted free agents who don't want to see training camps held.  Even late-round draftees can't be sure they'll have a job, when they haven't shown they can beat out someone on the squad from last year.  The incentive for veterans is to minimize the opportunities for coaches to find someone better than they are.

4 hours ago, Mango said:

This isn’t comparable to most of our situations. 95% of us are pushing product in some way. Whether it’s sales, writing code, cooking food, working at 7 11,we are just part of the supply chain in some way. 

 

NFL players ARE the product, so thoughts on “choosing” to work is drastically different than most of our experiences.

Without the coaching, and the game planning, and the stadiums, and the refs, and the TV announcers, and the crowd, and the fans at home --

 

-- all you'd have is a bunch of really good athletes playing in a park somewhere.  For free.

 

The NFL includes the players but it wouldn't be the NFL without all the rest.

[SectionC3]

11 hours ago, Doc said:

 

How do you know any have?  And if they have, the shouldn't have a problem continuing to be in one now, right?

 

 

Other players...who can't abide by the rules?  Then those players should be warned and then if they still don't listen, removed from the team without pay.

 

1.  You assumed, without basis in fact, that none of the players has lived in a bubble.  I pointed that out.  At this point there are probably about 2,500 players under contract, and I suspect that the odds are that at least one of them has practiced safe quarantining habits akin to bubble living.   In any event, there is no reason to assume that none of them has lived that way for the purpose of protecting self/immediate family/loved one. 

 

2.  There is a difference between "can't" and "won't."  The concern probably is greatest with respect to the players who "won't" abide by social distancing/masking/isolation rules, which, in the context of a contact sport that requires participation at least four days per week, threatens those who follow the "rules."   To this end Lorenzo Alexander's point is a good one.  The league should test every day.  It's the only way to protect all players from the ones who decide to hit the bar or the beach on off night and come to work a few days before limited testing would be conducted. 

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s the entire point though. They are just over a week from reporting and some pretty major items are still not ironed out. The players are asking what’s the plan and “don’t worry about it we will have something” seems to be the response. If there was a clear plan in place, that comes from the medical people, the players will be okay with it. I don’t disagree that it is being worked on. They are just running out of time. 

Surely details remain but clearly much has been worked out—seems like more than players are letting on.  They should be pressuring their union to satisfy any remaining questions about the process.  

[Tommy Callahan]

This all looks weak to the tens of millions that worked through all of this.

 

and the tens of millions more that had to come back in the last few months

 

Take their temp at the door, give them a mask, clean more. its what everywhere else is doing.

 

 

[cd1]

3 hours ago, Utah John said:

I'm not going to read umpteen pages of comments to see if anyone posted this --

 

I'm betting there aren't any undrafted free agents who don't want to see training camps held.  Even late-round draftees can't be sure they'll have a job, when they haven't shown they can beat out someone on the squad from last year.  The incentive for veterans is to minimize the opportunities for coaches to find someone better than they are.

Without the coaching, and the game planning, and the stadiums, and the refs, and the TV announcers, and the crowd, and the fans at home --

 

-- all you'd have is a bunch of really good athletes playing in a park somewhere.  For free.

 

The NFL includes the players but it wouldn't be the NFL without all the rest.

 

Agree!!!

 

How many coaches and staff have medical conditions that would make them more likely to have a deadly bout of covid-19?

 

Daboll? Take a peek at the photos of the 2020 Nfl Coaches.  Sure, those coaches can hide behind protective barriers but how could the league justify protecting some and not others?  

 

It is sad to think that there are fans out there that are perfectly fine with sacrificing the lives of a few just for a few hours of pleasure on Sunday afternoons. Pitiful

[HardyBoy]

10 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Sorry but I've watch some of the worst players in football for a 17 year stretch.  I still supported and rooted for them because they were Buffalo Bills.  You must be one of those fair weather fans or you would realize this.  I didn't become a Patriots Fan now did I?  You can have replacement players and it's still the NFL.  You wouldn't have replacement teams be successful.

 

The richest NFL players couldn't pay the power bill.

 

Haha, I'm pretty good at sarcasm and I can't tell if you're joking or serious, so well done, maybe?

 

You're telling me you'd watch 4th pre-season games for an entire season for every team and game, you really would watch that?

 

Hate to break this to you also, but the Bills never had the worst roster in the league, not really ever close except maybe the year before they drafted Mike Williams.  They were consistently mediocre right around 7-9 every year, and were basically just missing a few pieces or better than replacement level depth at a few key positions because of cash to cap, and never got the lucky bounce to end up 9-7 and back into the playoffs because of the Pats.

 

They could absolutely get the funding to start a league, think of that Shark Tank pitch.

 

Granted the NBA would be the easiest to pull off.

[Kirby Jackson]

8 hours ago, SCBills said:

On a remedial level, comparing to 7-11, ok, point taken.  
 

Let’s look at the white collar world.  
 

A financial advisor pushes product, but also sells themselves to the consumer.   Most people won’t invest without buying into the person they are investing with.  
 

Same with an insurance agent, or good salesman.  They sell product, but the relationship with the agent and/or salesman is equally important to the product they are pushing.   
 

They are also essentially the product and the labor.  Without the relationship built with the individual, there is no buy into the product. 
 

 

I agree to a certain level but not completely. I’m a middle-market P&C producer for the largest insurance agency in the world. In 2019 my production doubled the second highest producer in our office of over 20 producers. I could be replaced tomorrow. It would hurt some but it is nowhere near the same as the athlete/musician. Without me they take a hit but the business isn’t in jeopardy. Without the players or without the musicians there is no game or concert. It doesn’t exist. If it is a scale as to how replaceable the labor is to the actual business it probably looks something like this:
 

unskilled labor < middle management < skilled labor < sales < executives < entertainers 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

5 hours ago, Utah John said:

I'm betting there aren't any undrafted free agents who don't want to see training camps held.  Even late-round draftees can't be sure they'll have a job, when they haven't shown they can beat out someone on the squad from last year.  The incentive for veterans is to minimize the opportunities for coaches to find someone better than they are.

 

Exactly.  

 

[Gordio]

19 hours ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

because they deserve to have safety measures put in place you stooge. If there are none, than it is completely reckless. Even most jobs across America have made drastic changes to invoke the safety of its’ employees. But you sound like an entitled cry baby who wants the players to just shut up and play football. Why do they need any safety measures ?????
 

your immediate reaction to this situation was to have zero empathy which shows you have a lack of basic caring for people which probably means you love Fox News. 

 

 

I didn't get that at all from SC's post.  All he was saying was it is cool if you want to opt out but why should they get paid?  If a worker at a grocery store or an Amazon driver doesn't show up to work due to concern about the work conditions & their health, I am pretty sure they are not getting paid.  & your flat out wrong about how the players don't need the owners.  The billionaire owners make it possible for the numerous athletes to be millionaires & live a lavish lifestyle.  

 

BTW you should be banned for 30 days for name calling.  I thought it was prohibited on this board, I guess the rules only apply to certain posters.  

[DrDawkinstein]

I think a better title for this thread would be "NFL Leadership Drops the Ball".

 

The players arent necessarily revolting because there is nothing to revolt against. The NFL has NO real plan. They had the most time out of all the leagues, and after months of available planning time showed up with nothing. No way should players be expected to play under that.

[eball]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

I think a better title for this thread would be "NFL Leadership Drops the Ball".

 

The players arent necessarily revolting because there is nothing to revolt against. The NFL has NO real plan. They had the most time out of all the leagues, and after months of available planning time showed up with nothing. No way should players be expected to play under that.

 

This is a farcical statement.  Of course the NFL has been planning; do you have no concept of the sheer enormity of what they have to deal with?  The players’ concerns are legitimate and this will be worked out.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

This is a farcical statement.  Of course the NFL has been planning; do you have no concept of the sheer enormity of what they have to deal with?  The players’ concerns are legitimate and this will be worked out.

 

Of course I dont think the league officials have just been chillin in their pools all spring/summer. But they obviously dont have a plan. If you read player tweets, there are basic questions that the league doesnt even have answers to.

 

That said, I 100% agree the scope of this problem is huge and probably impossible. What this ultimately shows is, there most likely won't be a season. It's too big of a problem to merely "work around".