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Fracking industry projected to have $300B in losses

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2 hours ago, Mark80 said:

Good thing they are one of the richest owners in both leagues.  Put me in the category of absolutely zero concern.

Exactly....aren't they like number 8 among the owners?

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28 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

Didn't Terry already sell most of his fracking land so that money is already liquid or been re-invested in something else? Not really sure how much of his current wealth is depending on ongoing revenues from fracking...

 

"Pegula got into the fracking business in 1983 with a $7,500 loan from friends and family. His sale of the company in 2010 to Royal Dutch Shell netted him about $3 billion as majority owner. He subsequently sold company assets in Ohio and West Virginia in 2014 for $1.75 billion to American Energy Partners"

https://www.investigativepost.org/2018/05/08/pegula-back-fracking-and-violating-regulations/#:~:text=Pegula got into the fracking,billion to American Energy Partners.

So we can establish for the Bills:

1.  No worry on oil prices as they cashed out.

2.  No worry on Bills financials as they paid cash.

3.  As the cost of the stadium is low, they have a protection many teams that financed stadiums do not have.  Teams that leveraged to build will be hurt the worst.

4.  The cap is in good shape so if it drops in future years, the Bills will be positioned to take advantage of the market inefficiencies.

 

In terms of the Sabres, I suspect that as business people they want them tp stand on their own.  They may not need them to be profitable but to al least break even.  With the Bills and other local assets, a break even hockey team still contributes to their overall portfolio.

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Biggest thing i guess is when you "cash out" where do you put your $$$$$$ where did all or a lot of that Pegula bucks $$$$$$ go? stock market? etc,etc,etc..and how big a hit did that $$ take when they cashed in and lately with the market crash and COVID?

 

I mean i seriously know guys that had their 401K(in my case TSP) in a diversified account that STILL lost 40-60K when this market went south from COVID...and for many people their 401K is a good chunk of their net worth...what did the Pegulas have their cashed in $$ IN at the time(other than Bills Sabres in talking what kind of investments is my point..and how big a hit did they take?

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3 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

 

I could be wrong, but I thought the Pegulas sold virtually all of their oil and gas assets year ago to Shell.  That’s why they are so wealthy.  They may a few little assets here and there, but that’s just chump change—more for a hobby. 

 

Am I wrong? Are they still in the oil and gas business? 

 

This won't stop the threads that insist on tying Pegula's fortune to fossil fuel futures.

 

People are lazy..

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4 hours ago, cage said:

This is a real problem when we think of future for Pegulas and their ability to continue to be viable owners.  We're already seeing the affect of this related to the Sabres.  They're seeing a trifecta of problems in front of them that may mushroom faster than we think.  

 

1. Rocked in core industry, where they can't just "dig a hole if they need $"

2. No NHL ticket revenue given they won't make playoffs and will have difficulty putting fans in stands next season

3. While NFL teams get substantial revenue from TV contract, the Bills have big money re-signings ahead of them including coach and GM

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/22/shale-industry-will-be-rocked-by-300-billion-in-losses-and-a-wave-of-bankruptcies-deloitte-says.html?__source=twitter|main

You do realize they are two of the richest owners in professional sports? Yeh they can resign Beane and McDermott to very comfortable raises with their pocket change 

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I'm not sure if I'm right or wrong, but I have zero worry about the Pegulas having enough cash to own and continue to run the Bills.  

 

And I'm stoked because between Covid 19 slowing down cashflow for state and local governments for non-essential things like a NFL Stadium, and not a ton of new oil money, it seems to me that any support at all for financing a new stadium these days will be pretty lacking along with just being plain stupid hopefully.  Although, New York does harbor some of the dumbest politicians in the world, so nothing is guaranteed in terms of common sense.  I.E. use the money to pay for essential needs and services that serve citizens first, not a NFL Stadium.  

 

Renovating the Ralph seems much more plausible at this point.  Those of us that want the facilities to stay in Orchard Park seem to maybe have things swinging in our favor here.

 

#RenoTheRalph

 

 

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3 hours ago, eball said:

They're going to sell the Sabres.  Just watch.

And sold Sabres = Sabres moving out of town. Just watch.

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7 minutes ago, Lv-Bills said:

I'm not sure if I'm right or wrong, but I have zero worry about the Pegulas having enough cash to own and continue to run the Bills.  

 

And I'm stoked because between Covid 19 slowing down cashflow for state and local governments for non-essential things like a NFL Stadium, and not a ton of new oil money, it seems to me that any support at all for financing a new stadium these days will be pretty lacking along with just being plain stupid hopefully.  Although, New York does harbor some of the dumbest politicians in the world, so nothing is guaranteed in terms of common sense.  I.E. use the money to pay for essential needs and services that serve citizens first, not a NFL Stadium.  

 

Renovating the Ralph seems much more plausible at this point.  Those of us that want the facilities to stay in Orchard Park seem to maybe have things swinging in our favor here.

 

#RenoTheRalph

 

 

 

 

Exactly!  Buffalo will never be confused with Vegas....but can it not be Reno??

 

Reno that ol mofo!

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

Exactly....aren't they like number 8 among the owners?

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/10/nfls-richest-billionaire-owners.html

 

That's what CNBC says.

 

"His company, East Resources, sold most of its assets to Royal Dutch Shell for $4.7 billion in 2010. Pegula used some of those assets to build a portfolio of sports properties, including the NHL’s Buffalo Sabres and the Bills. "

 

For a relatively small and economically struggling city like Buffalo to have such wealthy team owners is an incredible blessing.  Among other things, it means we don't need to spend a lot of time fretting about the OP...

 

The internet.  It's amazing.  :rolleyes:

 

Also noteworthy from the list, I thought - Terry Pegula is the 2nd youngest owner in the top 10 (and the very actively involved Kim considerably younger than Terry) - so not only do we have wealthy owners (both of whom are area natives too), we probably have a lot more stability ahead than most.

 

 

Edited by BobChalmers
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6 hours ago, cage said:

This is a real problem when we think of future for Pegulas and their ability to continue to be viable owners.  We're already seeing the affect of this related to the Sabres.  They're seeing a trifecta of problems in front of them that may mushroom faster than we think.  

 

 

I am sure that the Pegula's have an extremely diverse portfolio. The Bills, & Sabres being only two of those assets.

The write offs for oil, and gas ventures, are likely quite generous.

 

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Well that fracking sucks...

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, cage said:

This is a real problem when we think of future for Pegulas and their ability to continue to be viable owners.  We're already seeing the affect of this related to the Sabres.  They're seeing a trifecta of problems in front of them that may mushroom faster than we think.  

 

1. Rocked in core industry, where they can't just "dig a hole if they need $"

2. No NHL ticket revenue given they won't make playoffs and will have difficulty putting fans in stands next season

3. While NFL teams get substantial revenue from TV contract, the Bills have big money re-signings ahead of them including coach and GM

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/22/shale-industry-will-be-rocked-by-300-billion-in-losses-and-a-wave-of-bankruptcies-deloitte-says.html?__source=twitter|main

That’s what I do for a living , in west Texas my company went from having 18 fracks down to just 2 , but work is picking up we just got 4 more that are starting this week , and the price of oil is going up as well it’s at 

$40 a barrel....

90% of people here being cowboys fans I got a HUGE B Bills sticker on my hard hat !!!

GO BILLS !!!

Edited by Putin
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7 hours ago, Mark80 said:

Good thing they are one of the richest owners in both leagues.  Put me in the category of absolutely zero concern.

 

Pretty much this.

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COVID may have saved us from ourselves.. in regard to the build downtown or renovate New Era decision.

 

Taxpayers Still on the Hook for Stadium Debts, Even Though Coronavirus Canceled Sports

Quote

American cities are going to lose about $360 billion in revenue over the next three years, according to a projection from the National League of Cities. The coronavirus pandemic isn't just emptying stadiums and eliminating ticket revenue. It's causing all sorts of economic spending to crater—including the common "tourist taxes" that cities often use to back debt, like those applied to hotel rooms and rental cars.

 

Quote

Study after study after study has debunked the idea that publicly funded stadiums are financially beneficial to anyone other than the team owners, who get free infrastructure for their business

 

 

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Every time I read one of these post, I have a flashback of the time I tasted my pee in the bathtub....

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