Bill O'Brien will kneel...JJ Watt says kneeling is no disrespect to the flag or military

[BillsFan17]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Their employer is saying they can protest.  Why do you refuse to see that?

You said an NFL player is not the same as an hourly worker at Jiffy Lube, i asked a question based on that statement...

 

What is it I am refusing to see?

[Putin]

8 minutes ago, Heavy Kevi said:

 

100% agree with the sentiment of your post, but this is not a constitutional matter, and I think it just gets in the way to argue that. These players are on the clock, and getting paid for their time (very handsomely). Obviously if the NFL is cool with it then it's a non-issue, but the 1st amendment doesn't really play here.

 

I mean, sure they "have the right" to do it, but the NFL "has the right" to sanction, penalize, or fire them for it. Obviously they won't do that though. It was easy when it was just kaep, now it's half the league or more. So now, even though this isn't a constitutional matter, I think it's more closely likened to a strike. The league can't really live without all the star players, so they have to deal with it.

 

Thank you for your service!

I agree ! But let’s not forget that market and revenue will dictate the road the owners will take , yes it’s an entertainment to us but it’s also a business , also IMO in 2016 people just didn’t like Kaep I think this time ( especially what happened to G Floyd ) there will be more people on board with kneeling 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Putin

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, BillsFan17 said:

You said an NFL player is not the same as an hourly worker at Jiffy Lube, i asked a question based on that statement...

 

What is it I am refusing to see?

I said nothing about a Jiffy Lube worker.  But when it comes to comparing about the ability to protest, no there is no difference in privilege.  The league has said they support it so the players can do so.  If Jiffy Lube says the same their workers can do so as well.

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

You said an NFL player is not the same as an hourly worker at Jiffy Lube, i asked a question based on that statement...

 

What is it I am refusing to see?

One is a highly skilled, hard to replace, multi-millionaire with the attention of hundreds of millions of people. The other changes your oil. They are quite different in terms of their audience.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[BillsFan17]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

One is a highly skilled, hard to replace, multi-million with the attention of hundreds of millions of people. The other changes your oil. They are quite different

So, in turn one has more privilege than the other?

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

I said nothing about a Jiffy Lube worker.  But when it comes to comparing about the ability to protest, no there is no difference in privilege.  The league has said they support it so the players can do so.  If Jiffy Lube says the same their workers can do so as well.

So, again, what am I refusing to see?

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

One is a highly skilled, hard to replace, multi-million with the attention of hundreds of millions of people. The other changes your oil. They are quite different

And if a Jiffy Lube owner said you can protest things at work than you can.

1 minute ago, BillsFan17 said:

So, in turn one has more privilege than the other?

So, again, what am I refusing to see?

You say NFL players are more privileged. No they are not. Not on the protest issue. Their boss says they can protest.  If a Jiffy Lube boss says his employees can so can they.  Your issue is with the bosses, not the employees.

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Putin said:

How many people here can peacefully protest at work ?

 

How many people have to watch a military presentation of the national anthem before they start working? You can't say keep politics out of the workplace when in this case the players are forced to witness a political display. You can't have it both ways. Either you accept that politics is part of sports or you take it out entirely. It's telling that some people have been fine with the owners allowing full on military displays for years, but the minute one player doesn't support it it's suddenly a matter of "politics in sports."

[BillsFan17]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

And if a Jiffy Lube owner said you can protest things at work than you can.

No one is saying that can't. If there are posters on here saying they can't, understand the value of the source.

[Putin]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

And if a Jiffy Lube owner said you can protest things at work than you can.

And if he says you can’t then he’s obviously a racist 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Putin

[BillsFan17]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

And if a Jiffy Lube owner said you can protest things at work than you can.

You say NFL players are more privileged. No they are not. Not on the protest issue. Their boss says they can protest.  If a Jiffy Lube boss says his employees can so can they.  Your issue is with the bosses, not the employees.

where did I say NFL players are more privileged? Someone made a post saying there is a difference in the two, implying one is more important than the other. In turn I asked if one was more privileged...

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Putin said:

And if he says you can’t then he’s obituary a racist 

Don’t even try to suggest I’m racist pal.  I have a minority daughter that I’ve see deal with crap.  

 

No, the Jiffy Lube owner makes his decision and his employees than have a choice to comply or not.

1 minute ago, BillsFan17 said:

where did I say NFL players are more privileged? Someone made a post saying there is a difference in the two, implying one is more important than the other. In turn I asked if one was more privileged...

Good, then we agree.

[Putin]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

How many people have to watch a military presentation of the national anthem before they start working? You can't say keep politics out of the workplace when in this case the players are forced to witness a political display. You can't have it both ways. Either you accept that politics is part of sports or you take it out entirely. It's telling that some people have been fine with the owners allowing full on military displays for years, but the minute one player doesn't support it it's suddenly a matter of "politics in sports."

Why is military has to be politicized? 
Military doesn’t belong to any political party they risk their lives to protect all of us regardless of our political views , we should all stand with our military ?? !!!

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

Don’t even try to suggest I’m racist pal.  I have a minority daughter that I’ve see deal with crap.  

 

No, the Jiffy Lube owner makes his decision and his employees than have a choice to comply or not.

Good, then we agree.

I wasn’t talking about you , I don’t even know you , I was talking about the Jiffy Lube owner 

I’m sorry if you thought that !!! 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Putin said:

Why is military has to be politicized? 
Military doesn’t belong to any political party they risk their lives to protect all of us regardless of our political views , we should all stand with our military ?? !!!

And every single protester has said they respect the military and that their protest is not directed at them.

[Heavy Kevi]

5 minutes ago, Putin said:

I agree ! But let’s not forget that market and revenue will dictate the road the owners will take , yes it’s an entertainment to us but it’s also a business , also IMO in 2016 people just didn’t like Kaep I think this time ( especially what happened to G Floyd ) there will be more people on board with kneeling 

 

Fair, but as I stated in a previous post, because of covid, I don't think anyone will be able to point at this with any conviction and say "its the kneeling that cost us". That makes this the exact right time.

 

2016 and 2020 are also very different socially, as you alluded to. As a big military supporter and a red-blooded Patriot I was against it 4 years ago but have become more informed in the time since. If you don't pay enough attention it can be tough to really understand what's going on.

[Capco]

3 hours ago, BillsFan2313 said:

At this point, how is there 20 votes for no? 

 

Because ignorance is rampant in America.  

 

It's almost 40 now.  

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, Putin said:

Why is military has to be politicized? 

 

You think the military has mega contracts with the NFL because they just love celebrating America? It's a recruitment tool. And I don't have a problem with it, it's their right to advertise as they see fit. But by the same token the players have the right to silently protest during the political display. Once you open that door you can't only let certain people through it. It's not like silently kneeling is taking away from the ceremony itself. Feel free to stand and stare at the flag if it makes you feel better. Don't tell others how they're supposed to act during the national anthem.

[BillsFan17]

8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Don’t even try to suggest I’m racist pal.  I have a minority daughter that I’ve see deal with crap.  

 

No, the Jiffy Lube owner makes his decision and his employees than have a choice to comply or not.

Good, then we agree.

Agree on what? You are having an argument with your self? If you weren't the original poster I presented the question to, exactly why did you interject and proceed to put words in my mouth?

 

You want to grandstand on your soapbox, do you, but leave me out of it.

[BillnutinHouston]

9 hours ago, StHustle said:

I personally would love to see it as long as he truly wants to protest the American government

 

I thought the protests were about police brutality.  What part of the American government do you want to see McDermott protest?

[Capco]

3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Demand groupthink!

 

Scream buzzwords!  Since that's all your mind is capable of anyway.  

[Sharky7337]

3 hours ago, TheProcess said:

This sensitive subject gives whitey an upset tummy. Shocking as it may be, people still don’t get it. 

There's your real racism folks. Any opinion that doesn't agree with this is labeled.

 

The country ain't perfect. But the number one determining factor in peoples own fate is themselves.

 

Unfortunately this society has degraded into not spanking kids, not teaching them about authority and negative consequences. Not valuing teachers and education.

 

And then people wonder why they are poor?

 

Trust me I know. I never made more than 18 grand a year, grew up in clothes from the salvation army.

 

I had to decide to pay bills or eat. I couldn't go to the doctor.

 

It was the choices I made as an adult that caused it to drag on into my twenties and thirties.Once I decided to make a change, get educated, things changed. And yes I got less assistance and almost none at all cause of my skin color.

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Sharky7337

[BillsFan17]

3 hours ago, TheProcess said:

This sensitive subject gives whitey an upset tummy. Shocking as it may be, people still don’t get it. 

Well, there is the racism we are looking for. You dont know if im Hispanic, black, Asian, white... yet let's see how you react to me pointing out exactly how racist stupid comments like yours are.

[Putin]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Feel free to stand and stare at the flag if it makes you feel better. Don't tell others how they're supposed to act during the national anthem.

I saw how much support Brees has gotten from the NFL for exercising his right to stand for the ?? Anthem !!!  I’m pretty sure he’s NOT the only one who feels that way , 

but nobody wants to be called a racist so everybody will KNEEL !!! 

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Putin

[loyal2dagame]

Why not kneel when the ball is placed on the tee for the opening kickoff? People watching at home usually don't see the national anthem,  but everyone watching will see the opening kick. It takes the whole flag/anthem issue out of the picture and more people will see the message being sent. 

[HappyDays]

Just now, Putin said:

I saw how much support Brees has gotten from the NFL for exercising his right to stand for the ?? Anthem !!! 
 

 

Then you completely misunderstood why people were mad at him. If he had said "I'm personally going to stand for the anthem, it's how I was raised, but I understand why some of my teammates won't" he wouldn't have gotten any flak. But his exact words were "I will never agree with anybody disrespecting the flag of the United States of America or our country." It isn't enough to say he is going to stand, he also has to call the protestors disrespectful. And then he tried to make a lazy point that they should stand for civil rights activists who sacrificed their lives which is arguably worse than his first statement. He showed a total lack of understanding for what the protestors are trying to do. Oh by the way he is the de facto leader of a team of mostly black men in a city with a 60% black population. In that context especially you can't describe his comments as anything but ignorant. It's not about what he plans to do during the anthem. No one is saying that people who don't kneel are ignorant. Just make a basic effort to understand why some people are kneeling.

[Kirby Jackson]

26 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

So, in turn one has more privilege than the other?

So, again, what am I refusing to see?

That one has an audience and one doesn’t. One has more privilege in the workplace because they are harder to replace. They are bigger earners. Not everyone has the same responsibility. By that logic how is the president different from a fry cook?

[Putin]

2 minutes ago, loyal2dagame said:

Why not kneel when the ball is placed on the tee for the opening kickoff? People watching at home usually don't see the national anthem,  but everyone watching will see the opening kick. It takes the whole flag/anthem issue out of the picture and more people will see the message being sent. 

Because it’s not about the ?? ?

[loyal2dagame]

Just now, Putin said:

Because it’s not about the ?? ?

My point isn't whether it's about the flag or not.  It's about mass audience viewing the message. 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

LOUD NOISES!!!!

[bigK14094]

3 hours ago, BillsFan2313 said:

At this point, how is there 20 votes for no? 

simple reason for a no vote:  I pay to see the football game.  I pay to be entertained.  I do not pay to be lectured to about any political belief of any brand.  So, I am being expected to adopt a specific view based on kneeling players and coaches beliefs?  I do not value their view in the stadium forum, they are entitled to have to views and express them on their time.  but, as Billy Joel says in the song..."NOT ON MY TIME"  Do your politicking when not in uniform and when I am not forced to be there because I like to watch football.  I am not saying there are not problems these movements should impact.....I am saying, I don't like  being subjected in an entertainment venue.  TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE!

[RiotAct]

4 hours ago, BillsFan2313 said:

At this point, how is there 20 votes for no? 

Just to piss you off, my man!!!  It’s all about you!

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

I pay to see the football game.

 

Great. You should turn the game on at kickoff and not a moment sooner. Would that make you feel better?

[Putin]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Then you completely misunderstood why people were mad at him. If he had said "I'm personally going to stand for the anthem, it's how I was raised, but I understand why some of my teammates won't" he wouldn't have gotten any flak. But his exact words were "I will never agree with anybody disrespecting the flag of the United States of America or our country." It isn't enough to say he is going to stand, he also has to call the protestors disrespectful. And then he tried to make a lazy point that they should stand for civil rights activists who sacrificed their lives which is arguably worse than his first statement. He showed a total lack of understanding for what the protestors are trying to do. Oh by the way he is the de facto leader of a team of mostly black men in a city with a 60% black population. In that context especially you can't describe his comments as anything but ignorant. It's not about what he plans to do during the anthem. No one is saying that people who don't kneel are ignorant. Just make a basic effort to understand why some people are kneeling.

I agree with you 100% !!! And I did say it earlier that he sounded a little one sided , 

but at the same time he was called every name in the book even by his teammates , 
Why can’t people also understand where he’s coming from and try and educate him ? Isn’t it’s exactly the same thing that you are asking of him ? 

[ColoradoBills]

The "Star Spangled Banner" National Anthem has 4 stanza's of which we only hear the 1st played.

A savvy entertainer should skip the 1st stanza and sing the 4th.  I mentioned this to friends during the Kaep protests.

 

O thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the war's desolation.
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the Heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

 

......or if some singer truly wants to make a point, sing the 5th stanza that was used during the Civil War!

 

When our land is illumined with Liberty's smile,
If a foe from within strike a blow at her glory,
Down, down with the traitor that dares to defile
The flag of her stars and the page of her story!
By the millions unchained, who our birthright have gained,
We will keep her bright blazon forever unstained!
And the Star-Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave
While the land of the free is the home of the brave.

 

Maybe singing the "Civil War" stanza could bring some citizens together.

 

[Putin]

6 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

  I pay to see the football game.  

Me too man I hate commercials  !!!

[BillsFan17]

15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That one has an audience and one doesn’t. One has more privilege in the workplace because they are harder to replace. They are bigger earners. Not everyone has the same responsibility. By that logic how is the president different from a fry cook?

They are entertainers. As far as I'm concerned, my car still needs oil to function. I don't need sports to function. 

 

The president to a fry cook is an absolutely awful comparison.

Edited June 14, 2020 by BillsFan17

[Dopey]

6 hours ago, Putin said:

Nobody cares what you’ll be doing in you’re dad’s basement 

Not much of a  difference between his dad's basement and your mom's attic, is there?

[Putin]

3 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Not much of a  difference between his dad's basement and your mom's attic, is there?

Maybe it’s time for another doobie and climb back under your rock 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Putin

[Rockinon]

Growing up, you could always count on Americans to stand for the national anthem and to put a hand on their heart. That tradition has always been a unifying symbol to every American regardless of color. Americans stand because we do not kneel to anyone who would try to divide us, subjugate us or attack us.  The very reasons people stand for the flag and the anthem are uniquely American reasons. And the people that kneel at that very moment know it is divisive. You can argue all you want that we have the freedom to kneel during anthem and while we fly the red, white and blue, but the truth is that this does not help to unite us.  It angers me to see Americans intentionally putting barriers up that divide. Pretending to say that it is for a just cause is utter BS.  There are millions of other ways to fight for a cause.  This way is not how you win people over and it will never will be.

 

It's no wonder we have riots in the streets. BTW, believing that black lives matter does not mean that you have to support the movement called Black Lives Matter(Which sends all it's donations to democrat candidates). Just as believing what happened to George Floyd was horrible doesn't mean you have to support de-funding the police. The very problems we are facing in America right now are because there is no middle ground.  There is no place where everyone can unite.  You are either on my side or you are the enemy, so to speak.  We can't even come together under something that once brought us all together.

 

Sorry, I kneel for God. No one else deserves that privilege.

[GreggTX]

Kneeling harms no one and the right to do so is enshrined in the constitution, flawed though it may be. He can kneel or stand for whatever his reasons may be.

[Don Otreply]

37 minutes ago, Heavy Kevi said:

 

100% agree with the sentiment of your post, but this is not a constitutional matter, and I think it just gets in the way to argue that. These players are on the clock, and getting paid for their time (very handsomely). Obviously if the NFL is cool with it then it's a non-issue, but the 1st amendment doesn't really play here.

 

I mean, sure they "have the right" to do it, but the NFL "has the right" to sanction, penalize, or fire them for it. Obviously they won't do that though. It was easy when it was just kaep, now it's half the league or more. So now, even though this isn't a constitutional matter, I think it's more closely likened to a strike. The league can't really live without all the star players, so they have to deal with it.

 

Thank you for your service!

I Appreciate your sentiments, and I thank you,  it was a privilege to serve my country.

 

 The owners of our country, yes us citizens, in effect have no constitutional rights if government or business entities can thwart them when ever they feel inclined. The playing field is not level. 

 

Capitalism brings many rewards, and is mostly a good thing,  but greed and power (capitalism’s twin evils) need to be properly regulated for the common good of everyone. Presently the greed and power aspects are out of hand, and those two things are the root cause of our current social unrest.