Drew Brees: Controversial comments

[FireChans]

15 minutes ago, K-9 said:

You need to justify your outrage by painting with large brushes. Simple as that. The fact you can’t accept a direct explanation from those who took part in a protest you found distasteful is proof of that. You NEED to project your own intentions rather than accept, from the person himself, the why of it all. 
 

 But I understand. Evolved thinking often requires us to confront uncomfortable realities in ourselves. 

You’re killing it today! 

When did Kaep enunciate his intentions with the pig socks?

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I don't recall the explanation, and I can't get behind the pay wall. Isn't it something to the effect of: Kap originally sat to protest, and then, after people complained it was disrespectful, he started kneeling instead to show that respect? 

they talked with a veteran and kneeling was his suggestion to stay respectful.

[Sherlock Holmes]

7 hours ago, billrooter said:

So as a white person Drew Brees now has no right voicing his opinion, one that I agree with. Racism goes both ways, it just isn't covered so thoroughly by the media when it is the other way around. This is a complete S&it S%how in my opinion. What exactly did he say that was wrong, the National Anthem IMO is never a place to protest?

 

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No, because you made the segue from "Drew Brees taking crap for his opinion" to "Drew Brees has no right to voice his opinion" and put your opinion as a statement "the National Anthem is never a place to protest". 

Understand that different people have different views on that.  It doesn't make them un-American.  The very heart of being American IMHO is the Free Speech right, including the right to protest national symbols.

 

Well, I know we are all here sitting and wishing Tom Brady would've weighed in and given his views on what is going on in the world a couple years ago

[3rdand12]

7 hours ago, SWATeam said:

And many gave their lives so that we may live in a free country where protests are allowed.

And I respect That all day everyday.

Kneeling is not disrespect in my opinion.
 

Poor Drew. so misunderstood.

Appreciate the insight from Kirby for sure. ty
 

Like the Wise Sage Red Green said

 "we are all in this thing together "

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

My question is, why can’t you take Kaepernick’s and others’ explanation for why they took a knee? 

it is for prayer

  Tis also perceived as an act of submission in some cultures.
 

 

[K-9]

49 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I don't recall the explanation, and I can't get behind the pay wall. Isn't it something to the effect of: Kap originally sat to protest, and then, after people complained it was disrespectful, he started kneeling instead to show that respect? 

That was part of it, certainly. Here’s an excerpt from Reid’s article that I linked:
 

 

Quote

 

I approached Colin the Saturday before our next game to discuss how I could get involved with the cause but also how we could make a more powerful and positive impact on the social justice movement. We spoke at length about many of the issues that face our community, including systemic oppression against people of color, police brutality and the criminal justice system. We also discussed how we could use our platform, provided to us by being professional athletes in the N.F.L., to speak for those who are voiceless. 
 

After hours of careful consideration, and even a visit from Nate Boyer, a retired Green Beret and former N.F.L. player, we came to the conclusion that we should kneel, rather than sit, the next day during the anthem as a peaceful protest. We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture. I remember thinking our posture was like a flag flown at half-mast to mark a tragedy.

It baffles me that our protest is still being misconstrued as disrespectful to the country, flag and military personnel. We chose it because it’s exactly the opposite. It has always been my understanding that the brave men and women who fought and died for our country did so to ensure that we could live in a fair and free society, which includes the right to speak out in protest.

It should go without saying that I love my country and I’m proud to be an American. But, to quote James Baldwin, “exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.”

 

 

The outrage is all about our tribal politics. 

54 minutes ago, FireChans said:

When did Kaep enunciate his intentions with the pig socks?

On September 1, 2016. 
 

"I wore these socks, in the past, because the rogue cops that are allowed to hold positions in police departments, not only put the community in danger, but also put the cops that have the right intentions in danger by creating an environment of tension and mistrust. I have two uncles and friends who are police officers and work to protect and serve ALL people. So before these socks, which were worn before I took my public stance, are used to distract from the real issues, I wanted to address this immediately."

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

Exactly.  Squirting condiments is the ultimate sign of disrespect.  Thats why we do it to Pinto Ron. I bet he'd kneel for the anthem.

Thank you.

 Voice of sense and reason appears.
are you married btw ?

 

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, K-9 said:

That was part of it, certainly. Here’s an excerpt from Reid’s article that I linked:
 

 

 

The outrage is all about our tribal politics. 

On September 1, 2016. 
 

"I wore these socks, in the past, because the rogue cops that are allowed to hold positions in police departments, not only put the community in danger, but also put the cops that have the right intentions in danger by creating an environment of tension and mistrust. I have two uncles and friends who are police officers and work to protect and serve ALL people. So before these socks, which were worn before I took my public stance, are used to distract from the real issues, I wanted to address this immediately."

Oh so 20 days later than when he wore them on August 10th. He sure got ahead of that one.

 

He even said he wore them BEFORE he took a public stance. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by FireChans

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, Warren Zevon said:

 

The elephant in a room of mice.

intense visual right there.

Thank You ?

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

That was part of it, certainly. Here’s an excerpt from Reid’s article that I linked:
 

 

 

The outrage is all about our tribal politics. 

 

That is about what I remember, and why I cam around to Kap's methodology.  However, if I may complicate the analysis a bit....

 

I wonder whether there is room for intent and opinion regarding the meaning of symbols in today's America.  Kap's intent aside, kneeling for the anthem has always been a slight to the country and those who served for its betterment.  

 

Think about it in terms of the confederate monuments. The intent, so to speak, for many southerners was that those monuments represented honor, pride, etc. BLM and others said no, they represent racism.  Furthermore, because it was racist, it didn't matter what the intent was for those who idolized the monuments. Therefore, the monuments could not stand. 

 

Apply that analysis here. I'm not sure Kap gets to rewrite the meaning of his actions, even if his intent is not meant to be offensive.  

[K-9]

Just now, FireChans said:

Oh so 20 days later than when he wore them on August 10th. He sure got ahead of that one.

Nice deflection. You hate Colin Kaepernick. Just leave it at that and move on. You are incapable of honest discussion on the matter. 

 

 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

That is about what I remember, and why I cam around to Kap's methodology.  However, if I may complicate the analysis a bit....

 

I wonder whether there is room for intent and opinion regarding the meaning of symbols in today's America.  Kap's intent aside, kneeling for the anthem has always been a slight to the country and those who served for its betterment.  

 

Think about it in terms of the confederate monuments. The intent, so to speak, for many southerners was that those monuments represented honor, pride, etc. BLM and others said no, they represent racism.  Furthermore, because it was racist, it didn't matter what the intent was for those who idolized the monuments. Therefore, the monuments could not stand. 

 

Apply that analysis here. I'm not sure Kap gets to rewrite the meaning of his actions, even if his intent is not meant to be offensive.  

 

Is that true? Kneeling in general is a sign of respect/contemplation. Before Kaep I cannot recall anyone kneeling for anthems (let alone it being a slight to the country).  

[3rdand12]

4 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

That is about what I remember, and why I cam around to Kap's methodology.  However, if I may complicate the analysis a bit....

 

I wonder whether there is room for intent and opinion regarding the meaning of symbols in today's America.  Kap's intent aside, kneeling for the anthem has always been a slight to the country and those who served for its betterment.  

 

Think about it in terms of the confederate monuments. The intent, so to speak, for many southerners was that those monuments represented honor, pride, etc. BLM and others said no, they represent racism.  Furthermore, because it was racist, it didn't matter what the intent was for those who idolized the monuments. Therefore, the monuments could not stand. 

 

Apply that analysis here. I'm not sure Kap gets to rewrite the meaning of his actions, even if his intent is not meant to be offensive.  

I did not know that. Help me a bit on this please : ) sincere ask my friend

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Nice deflection. You hate Colin Kaepernick. Just leave it at that and move on. You are incapable of honest discussion on the matter. 

 

 

I don’t hate him. His supporters were annoying.

 

You were right that he did talk about his socks. Unfortunately, that was almost a month AFTER he wore them, AND before he came out as a spokesperson for police brutality awareness. 

 

He bombed himself in the court of public opinion by doing so. Which is all the more sad considering that he may have actually been able to do some good if he hadn’t.

Edited June 4, 2020 by FireChans

[3rdand12]

Just now, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Is that true? Kneeling in general is a sign of respect/contemplation. Before Kaep I cannot recall anyone kneeling for anthems (let alone it being a slight to the country).  

quick draw DBDBDB lol

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

1 minute ago, 3rdand12 said:

quick draw DBDBDB lol

 

I think under official TBD rules you owe me a coke 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

5 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

I did not know that. Help me a bit on this please : ) sincere ask my friend

 

6 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Is that true? Kneeling in general is a sign of respect/contemplation. Before Kaep I cannot recall anyone kneeling for anthems (let alone it being a slight to the country).  

 

I have to be honest, I don't actually know the answer. I'm sort of just thinking about the whole thing critically.  I assume that is true, simply because the convention is to stand to show respect, implying that doing the opposite is a sign of disrespect, but I could be wrong.  I really just assume the point to get to a place where I can ask: does intent matter when interpreting symbols? 

Edited June 4, 2020 by JoshAllenHasBigHands

[Jauronimo]

10 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Thank you.

 Voice of sense and reason appears.
are you married btw ?

 

I am not married.  

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

I am not married.  

Who would have thought this thread included a marriage proposal?

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

That is about what I remember, and why I cam around to Kap's methodology.  However, if I may complicate the analysis a bit....

 

I wonder whether there is room for intent and opinion regarding the meaning of symbols in today's America.  Kap's intent aside, kneeling for the anthem has always been a slight to the country and those who served for its betterment.  

 

Think about it in terms of the confederate monuments. The intent, so to speak, for many southerners was that those monuments represented honor, pride, etc. BLM and others said no, they represent racism.  Furthermore, because it was racist, it didn't matter what the intent was for those who idolized the monuments. Therefore, the monuments could not stand. 

 

Apply that analysis here. I'm not sure Kap gets to rewrite the meaning of his actions, even if his intent is not meant to be offensive.  

Should a symbol ever mean more than the right of the people it represents? Yeah, we have a problem with symbols in this country alright. 
 

I refuse to comment on the rest of your post. But I will recommend visiting the great libraries and state houses of the South and researching letters, news articles, speeches, etc., made by confederate leadership both before, during, and immediately after the Civil War. 

[Augie]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

 

But players are political at work (the NFL), and the NFL is not banishing or forbidding them (other than Kaep possibly). So I guess you don't have a problem with it, since their employer is allowing it? 

 

I have a problem with inequality and police brutality. I also have a problem with people using their place of employment to demonstrate. Both of these things can be true. The employer is tolerating it to some point because they are between a rock and a hard place. They are certainly not FOR it, and I’m sure they are for equality as well. There is a time and a place for everything. It’s fine if we may disagree here. 

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I don’t hate him. His supporters were annoying.

 

You were right that he did talk about his socks. Unfortunately, that was almost a month AFTER he wore them, AND before he came out as a spokesperson for police brutality awareness. 

 

He bombed himself in the court of public opinion by doing so. Which is all the more sad considering that he may have actually been able to do some good if he hadn’t.

Was he talking about all cops or just the rogue ones or not? Jesus F ing Christ! Move the goalposts on someone else who actually might be interested in your brand of intellectual dishonesty. You aren’t worth any more of my time at this point. 

[3rdand12]

3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I am not married.  

Well you should be . You're a keeper 
 

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Who would have thought this thread included a marriage proposal?

I did not suggest that , You are projecting your emotions onto mine and sharing that  as if it were fact
and we just met.....

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I am not married.  

With all those blind and deaf women out there? I can’t believe that!

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Who would have thought this thread included a marriage proposal?

When your heart is pure and you put all that warmth and positivity into the universe I guess love finds you even in the strangest of places.  

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

3 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Should a symbol ever mean more than the right of the people it represents? Yeah, we have a problem with symbols in this country alright. 
 

I refuse to comment on the rest of your post. But I will recommend visiting the great libraries and state houses of the South and researching letters, news articles, speeches, etc., made by confederate leadership both before, during, and immediately after the Civil War. 

 

If you're saying this, I don't think you follow what I am saying. I understand that whatever intent there was when erecting those monuments, even when given the benefit of the doubt, you simply cannot disconnect those monuments from their racist history. That is my point. Kap cannot simply disconnect from what it means to kneel before the flag, because his intent is otherwise. 

[3rdand12]

6 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I have a problem with inequality and police brutality. I also have a problem with people using their place of employment to demonstrate. Both of these things can be true. The employer is tolerating it to some point because they are between a rock and a hard place. They are certainly not FOR it, and I’m sure they are for equality as well. There is a time and a place for everything. It’s fine if we may disagree here. 

Fair point and good dialogue

[Rocbillsfan1]

4 hours ago, badassgixxer05 said:

That was never the point. Everyone knows why they are kneeling and its meaning. Some just took offense that they chose to do it in a time that most Americans take pride in which is our flag. Do the kneel at the coin flip, or at kick off or any other time during the game. The national anthem should have been off limits. Players should have noticed and made this adjustment. Good Message, just bad delivery. 

Kneel during the kickoff or coin flip? People won’t even know what he’s doing, is he trying to do a touchback lol.

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Was he talking about all cops or just the rogue ones or not? Jesus F ing Christ! Move the goalposts on someone else who actually might be interested in your brand of intellectual dishonesty. You aren’t worth any more of my time at this point. 

He said he didn’t mean all cops. You were right.

 

I don’t believe him. I don’t believe someone who believed there are some rogue cops and most at decent people would wear pig socks.

 

See ya

[SoTier]

 

6 hours ago, FireChans said:

There’s this idea in this country that if you have “bad opinions,” rather than come to a middle ground, you should be shouted into the stratosphere.

 

 

There are "bad opinions" for which there is no middle ground because they are simply wrong.  Maybe they were "okay opinions" or "popular opinions" fifty or one hundred years ago but times change, and societal standards change.  Racism, anti-Semitism, misogyny, and homophobia are among the opinions that are no longer acceptable in the general American society in 2020 although shrinking segments of society still hold them.  Holding those opinions is your own business, but if you express them or act on them, then you will offend a lot of people and catch hell for it.    Hopefully, George Floyd's death will be instrumental in adding the idea that police brutality is okay -- not just against black and brown men but against every person in the US -- to the list of proscribed opinions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[K-9]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

If you're saying this, I don't think you follow what I am saying. I understand that whatever intent there was when erecting those monuments, even when given the benefit of the doubt, you simply cannot disconnect those monuments from their racist history. That is my point. Kap cannot simply disconnect from what it means to kneel before the flag, because his intent is otherwise. 

I’m not referring to those monuments in the context of the historical racism they may or may not represent. Not at all. I’m referring to their being commissioned in the first place. 
 

I would argue that it’s not Kaepernick who is doing the disconnecting. It’s the rest of us who project our own personal meaning, outrage, or acceptance onto his act. There’s a certain psychological phenomenon at play. But that also is another topic I don’t have the time or inclination to discuss. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

 

 

There are "bad opinions" for which there is no middle ground because they are simply wrong.  Maybe they were "okay opinions" or "popular opinions" fifty or one hundred years ago but times change, and societal standards change.  Racism, anti-Semitism, misogyny, and homophobia are among the opinions that are no longer acceptable in the general American society in 2020 although shrinking segments of society still hold them.  Holding those opinions is your own business, but if you express them or act on them, then you will offend a lot of people and catch hell for it.    Hopefully, George Floyd's death will be instrumental in adding the idea that police brutality is okay -- not just against black and brown men but against every person in the US -- to the list of proscribed opinions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

All those “police brutality is okay” people are everywhere lol.

[3rdand12]

6 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

 

There are "bad opinions" for which there is no middle ground because they are simply wrong.  Maybe they were "okay opinions" or "popular opinions" fifty or one hundred years ago but times change, and societal standards change.  Racism, anti-Semitism, misogyny, and homophobia are among the opinions that are no longer acceptable in the general American society in 2020 although shrinking segments of society still hold them.  Holding those opinions is your own business, but if you express them or act on them, then you will offend a lot of people and catch hell for it.    Hopefully, George Floyd's death will be instrumental in adding the idea that police brutality is okay -- not just against black and brown men but against every person in the US -- to the list of proscribed opinions.

 

 

 

 

 

   Is ?

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by 3rdand12

[Bring it]

8 hours ago, billrooter said:

So as a white person Drew Brees now has no right voicing his opinion, one that I agree with. Racism goes both ways, it just isn't covered so thoroughly by the media when it is the other way around. This is a complete S&it S%how in my opinion. What exactly did he say that was wrong, the National Anthem IMO is never a place to protest?

I’ve voiced that same opinion of Kap and the anthem protests on here also. Not saying that there isn’t unjust things that happen to blacks and others in this country. I have family members who have told me what it’s like to be other than whIte. Targeted by police at times etc.... it shouldn’t be that way!!! Kap wasn’t wrong IMO. Neither is Brees. Our country isn’t perfect and there certainly is disunity amongst us but the anthem is a moment when we should lay our differences aside!

 

 I would like to encourage others to respectfully listen to experiences that others have growing up and living as a minority. It helped me to see a little more clearly things that I have never experienced first hand or at least not often. 

I also would add that there are those amongst us that want to see this country brought down. Not referring to Kap here. But they do exist and it’s important to have something to bring us together even if it’s for just a couple of minutes. The anthem is one but so is our shared love of football. Specifically the Bills. Some things are worth preserving!!

Edited June 4, 2020 by Bring it

[Lurker]

8 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

“I support the cause that Kap was fighting for. I stand with him to fight systemic racism.”

 

That doesn't have to be mutually exclusive with what Brees said about never wanting to disrespect the flag or anthem.     Kap's kneeling is just a symbol, not the end unto itself.

 

In today's binary world, it seems there's little ability to hold more than one belief, which is pretty sad, actually...

[Needle]

24 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Was he talking about all cops or just the rogue ones or not? Jesus F ing Christ! Move the goalposts on someone else who actually might be interested in your brand of intellectual dishonesty. You aren’t worth any more of my time at this point. 

I went to the Black Lives Matter homepage in honest attempt to see what it is about. The only thing on there is a petition to sign for a demand to defund all police and various t-shirts to buy.

 

Since visiting the site, I get a pop up once a day for the whole defunding of police thing.

 

Point is, BLM is definitely saying all police. 

[Jpsredemption]

Only in today’s day in age must you apologize for having a dissenting opinion with the mainstream media. The mainstream media is a champion of limiting free speech. The quicker people begin to use logic and understand this and also understand dissent can be a catalyst for change and productivity, the better. 

[billsbackto81]

8 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Are these now the Bickering Saints? This just might be the Bills year after all! Now....we just need Mahomes to do something similar. ??

He's on the cusp of signing a contract worth 40 mil a year. He's not saying anything until the ink is dry. 

[Coach Tuesday]

16 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

Only in today’s day in age must you apologize for having a dissenting opinion with the mainstream media. The mainstream media is a champion of limiting free speech. The quicker people begin to use logic and understand this and also understand dissent can be a catalyst for change and productivity, the better. 

Oh please.

[KD in CA]

17 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

Only in today’s day in age must you apologize for having a dissenting opinion with the mainstream media. The mainstream media is a champion of limiting free speech. The quicker people begin to use logic and understand this and also understand dissent can be a catalyst for change and productivity, the better. 

 

Well....not 'only' in today's day and age.  History is littered with examples of time and places when dissent was not tolerated.  History usually doesn't judge them favorably.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

Thank you.

 Voice of sense and reason appears.
are you married btw ?

 

We have a proposal!  We have a proposal on page 17!  Jauronimo and 3rdand12!

 

1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

That is about what I remember, and why I cam around to Kap's methodology.  However, if I may complicate the analysis a bit....

 

I wonder whether there is room for intent and opinion regarding the meaning of symbols in today's America.  Kap's intent aside, kneeling for the anthem has always been a slight to the country and those who served for its betterment.  

 

Can you source that?  Because I've lived long enough to put myself in a high covid-19 risk group and I've never heard that before all the Kaep kerfluffle.  Honest, not a word.

 

Quote

Think about it in terms of the confederate monuments. The intent, so to speak, for many southerners was that those monuments represented honor, pride, etc. BLM and others said no, they represent racism.  Furthermore, because it was racist, it didn't matter what the intent was for those who idolized the monuments. Therefore, the monuments could not stand. 

 

Apply that analysis here. I'm not sure Kap gets to rewrite the meaning of his actions, even if his intent is not meant to be offensive.  

 

I think going into confederate monuments and their intent is a bit too far afield from football/Kaep/Brees and should be left for another time and place (PPP would be one choice)