Shaw66 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: To say he can be better than Big Ben is a big call. I am not willing to go that far. I don't know that he will be, but he can be. He's one of the most physically gifted qbs I've seen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I think it’s more evidence of his not being the most accurate passer. And it was in the MWC not the SEC. I just don’t why some of you are so quick to dismiss all the statistics that show he isn’t the most accurate passer. I would love to see this board would judge him and Darnold if they switched teams. So what you’re saying about him on the Bills board is “nice” compared to if he wasn’t. So then tell us what you really think because obviously you haven’t been fully honest (which some of us already knew anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I don't know that he will be, but he can be. He's one of the most physically gifted qbs I've seen. Still too rich for me at this stage. Before I say he can be better than a sure fire first ballot hall of famer I still need to see more evidence on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBillsFan Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I think it’s more evidence of his not being the most accurate passer. And it was in the MWC not the SEC. I just don’t why some of you are so quick to dismiss all the statistics that show he isn’t the most accurate passer. I would love to see this board would judge him and Darnold if they switched teams. Because in the absence of facts and history they can only use ridicule. No one is saying Allen can't improve, but you are right there are historical elements which point to issues. Fixable? Let's find out. I think a lot can be fixed if you make him a 2 read QB so his mechanics are simplified for 2 throws per snap. My reasoning is simple: his athleticism would make it so he's more of a runner and uses that dimension to force a spy on him and with the right running game the field opens up like it does for Jackson. He's not Jackson, but he has the same benefits he could utilize. I think his last game in 2018 in Miami was the perfect combo for him. Edited April 13, 2020 by BigBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 On 4/10/2020 at 10:32 PM, Bangarang said: Cian Fahey is literally the last person I would listen to when it comes to any kind of player evaluation. He’s simply the worst. If he could block you on here he would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: If he could block you on here he would. How's it feel knowing that I have a better arm than you....both with the football and baseball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 WOW !! Diggs ain't gonna help that any he's gonna have to have 1 hell of a catch radius to help Josh on some of those throws !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 I watched the whole season, i don't need to re-watch a worst of compilation. Here's my thoughts on causes He widens his base sometimes (especially on touch throws) and balls sail. Just an uncomfortable way of throwing, and some of those little flare and swing passes to TEs and RBs have been out of reach. Timing on deep balls is an issue as he always seemed to hesitate a little at the last second. I also watched something that indicated that he was tilting his shoulders on throws which would cause trajectory issues. Timing is also an issue on short stuff, he'll whip it over on the hitch and the balls not where it needs to be. Usually its low or out of bounds - like him and the receiver had a different thought on the leverage. He also has shown slower eyes on stuff over the middle and either pats the ball or hesitates and then tries to rifle it into a small window. These will also be short sometimes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 At 1:49 Cody loses leverage and is waltzed backward to step on Josh's plant foot. Errant due to inaccuracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 (edited) At :25 seconds arms of Chad Thomas #92 (I think) and Josh Allen have a meeting. Evidence of bad Josh accuracy? Edited April 18, 2020 by JESSEFEFFER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 You could make this video for every single QB in the NFL. Brady had plenty, and I mean plenty, of "bad throws" this year. He didn't have 30 dropped passes either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 Someone compiled this video as evidence of how horribly inaccurate Josh is. Many of these are not what he said they are. 16 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said: You could make this video for every single QB in the NFL. Brady had plenty, and I mean plenty, of "bad throws" this year. He didn't have 30 dropped passes either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Several of those were passes that were on-target but defensed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said: Someone compiled this video as evidence of how horribly inaccurate Josh is. Many of these are not what he said they are. Just a moron pushing an agenda. Allen put some passes on the money this year. Pro football reference counted 36 dropped passes in total. Insane. Knox had 10, Cole 5, Brown 4, Singletary 6. Just to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Looks like someone needs a real hobby during the lockdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 29 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: Looks like someone needs a real hobby during the lockdown Other than wasting time here? What's your real hobby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 34 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said: Just a moron pushing an agenda. Allen put some passes on the money this year. Pro football reference counted 36 dropped passes in total. Insane. Knox had 10, Cole 5, Brown 4, Singletary 6. Just to name a few. This person makes a statement that, for the second year in a row, Josh Allen is the least accurate QB in the NFL and its not close. Then, in a supposed attempt to bolster his conclusion, he posts a hand picked (?) compilation of horribly errant Josh throws. And when you watch them they might seem to be as he claimed and as some here in this thread agreed. But, if you look closer at them, many are like these two above. Cian Fahey is less accurate than Josh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 2 hours ago, JESSEFEFFER said: At 1:49 Cody loses leverage and is waltzed backward to step on Josh's plant foot. Errant due to inaccuracy? So we should chalk that one up to poor protection? OL let him down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 I'm not going through all the pages on this thread but just want to say the op showed only bad. Josh is good. Mojo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Billl said: So we should chalk that one up to poor protection? OL let him down? Good question. Cody's footwork is terrible on the play. After the initial punch by the defender, Cody is knocked off balance, looses leverage and is bullrushed right into Josh. The red shoes really help to highlight their placement. At one point they are both at hash mark, perpendicular to the line of scrimmage. That is a losing position and he never anchors. Why all this happened I dont know. Ford is a rookie? Ford is not a RT? The defender made a nice play? Maybe the result an illegal headslap? I can't tell on my phone"s screen. Anyways, the only thing that slows the rush is when Cody collides with Josh. Edited April 18, 2020 by JESSEFEFFER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, beerme1 said: I'm not going through all the pages on this thread but just want to say the op showed only bad. Josh is good. Mojo. I am advocating for Josh in the court of public opinion. Cian Fahey is charging Josh with being the most inaccurate QB in the entire league. The video is his exhibit A and it's half full of plays like those two pictured above. His "evidence" is a steaming pile of bovine excrement. Edited April 18, 2020 by JESSEFEFFER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. K Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 We just want the guy to bring winning to town on a annual basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Too many of those were simply sloppy. Flat footed or too wide a stance or poor alignment. Much to clean up. Hope he gets it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 This throw produced a severe reaction in section 228. A wide open Dawson Knox is severely overthrown (into the wind) which produced many groans and sounds of verbal outrage. Just a continuation of his deeper throws inaccuracy maybe. But, thanks to Cian Fahey, I now see that Josh' forearm is crashing down on Chris Wormley's outstretched hand causing the ball to come out too early. If you watch it in the video, Wormley reacts like he touched a hot stove because it probably hurt more than just a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 At 1:11 Ravens' DT (#97?Michael Pierce?) tips the JA pass and it skips upwards after contact. Like a poor attempt to block a volleyball spike. So, Cian Fahey is inaccurate about this one too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBillsFan Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 28 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said: At 1:11 Ravens' DT (#97?Michael Pierce?) tips the JA pass and it skips upwards after contact. Like a poor attempt to block a volleyball spike. So, Cian Fahey is inaccurate about this one too. You know I actually reviewed the video after you posted this. He does not tip the pass whatsoever. The trajectory never changes. I watched it 5 times. This is, as you put it, confirmation bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 At 1:43 the pass is tipped by Texans" LB (#55? McKinney?) during the OT. I wonder if Josh is prone to these tips. A quick high release combined with elite velocity might mean fewer batted balls (which are obvious where the nose of the ball needs to hit something) and more tipped ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said: You know I actually reviewed the video after you posted this. He does not tip the pass whatsoever. The trajectory never changes. I watched it 5 times. This is, as you put it, confirmation bias. The path of the ball "skips" due to the contact which was probably on the under side of the ball. Sorry you can't see it. The trouble is that it is tough to see the initial trajectory between the release point and contact so it is tough to see the path altered. At 80+ fps it's just a blur both before and after. Watch it full speed and there is a hopping effect to the path after it passes the defender. For some of these a zoomed in endzone shot would be nice. I think this one is clear. Edited April 18, 2020 by JESSEFEFFER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 (edited) At 44 seconds vs. Pats, Butler and Hightower run a twist, Spain tries to pass Hightower off to Morse and take Butler but Hightower has already split the gap. He gets to within 2 feet of Josh (i.e. in his grill) with his arm extending up and toward where Josh's arm will be. I don't actually see the contact because of the camera angle but can we assume it happened based on how Josh's body acted afterward? We never see his right arm follow through so something stopped it. Edited April 18, 2020 by JESSEFEFFER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 (edited) At :49 seconds #42 of the Browns, Karl Joseph, who looked to have been spying on Josh, quickly rushes around the end and leaps to tip the ball. Once again an altered throw which says nothing about accuracy. Sorry, it didn't let the photo post. Fixed, I had to save as a jpeg. Edited April 18, 2020 by JESSEFEFFER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Almost all of these are just inaccurate bad passes. Stop. Wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 A couple more vs. "Phins and Steelers but I'll stop if that makes some feel better. Just don't buy what Cian Fahey is trying to sell. Whatever you might want to measure Josh's accuracy at, it is a higher number than Cian's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 1 minute ago, JESSEFEFFER said: A couple more vs. "Phins and Steelers but I'll stop if that makes some feel better. Just don't buy what Cian Fahey is trying to sell. Whatever you might want to measure Josh's accuracy at, it is a higher number than Cian's. I said earlier in the thread that it looked like some way-off throws (some could have been tipped), miscomms, defensed passes and lack of effort on balls that weren't perfectly thrown but hit the receivers hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, Doc said: I said earlier in the thread that it looked like some way-off throws (some could have been tipped), miscomms, defensed passes and lack of effort on balls that weren't perfectly thrown but hit the receivers hands. Question. How fair (or accurate) is this video compilation as an example of an inherent Josh Allen inaccuracy? I think 6 to 10 of these clips, apparently hand picked by Cian Fahey, show something other than what he claims. Sure there are some legit misses mixed in there. Every QB has them. I think it's more a case of a reputation becomes a generalization becomes an exaggeration. Fahey claims to be measuring something that most of his exhibit A video does not support. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy work that brings his conclusion into question, imo. At least he spent the time to gather these up and put them in one 2 minute video which makes it easier to scrutinize. I wonder what most of us thought of these plays when we saw them live. I'd bet we were mostly wrong. I might try to go back to the gdt's and see who was freaking out. There were many like ScottLaw saying that they saw a bunch of bad throws compromised by bad mechanics of one kind or another. So, I decided to start posting these screenshots. The end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 (edited) This is just sad. Allen needs to be better. Plain and simple. Edited April 18, 2020 by Bangarang 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Days Lois & Clark Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 Josh still has a lot of work to do on improving his accuracy. It would help him if Daboll could design a better screen game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 19, 2020 Author Share Posted April 19, 2020 On 4/12/2020 at 12:29 AM, Mango said: You are dodging the question and shifting the goal posts. But I think you already know that. To answer your question, his stat line dropped from historically great to MVP conversation. Again, we should try to get an idea of Josh’s improvements outside of his supporting cast. That isn’t an argument against him actually improving, because he did. It’s not a hard line, and is a worthy point/conversation. Maybe the better question is, what’s the increased offensive production with the addition of Diggs, and we get the same Josh Allen? Points, yards, etc? I can get behind most of this. He definitely improved and there were some issues with supporting cast. I was more just responding to the blanket statement that seemed to come off as, “you’re with Josh or you’re against him”. The offense needs a large leap from a few positions to be mentioned in the conversation of consistantly above average. QB is one of those positions. Two areas to judge progress apart from supporting cast are ball security and giving his receivers a shot on deep balls. Those are almost 100% on him. I'd argue he got better on the ints after 1st Pats game but he's got to realize that when he is running with it the D is going after the ball because his size and upright style leaves it exposed. That crazy pitch was beyond reckless. He started hitting more deep throws late in the year. Brown vs Steelers, Broncos and Pats, Knox vs. Ravens and Pats, Beasley vs Ravens (dropped.) Like I said, it's on totally on him to be consistently better in those areas and it will be obvious to all of us if he is or not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 I recently came across the endzone view of the throw at :37. The takeaway for me is this. Every time that someone is all worked up about some errant throw that Josh makes and wants to crap all over his accuracy, consider taking a closer look. His reputation is often the only explanation that some will ever need and they are not inclined to search any further. I suspect Josh's throws may be more velnerable toward tips like this. His arm strength means he can wait a beat longer but it gives the defenders a little more time to step into his throwing lane and try to time the jump. They are tough to see at normal play speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 On 4/11/2020 at 1:32 AM, Bangarang said: Cian Fahey is literally the last person I would listen to when it comes to any kind of player evaluation. He’s simply the worst. Drunk watching film? What could go wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juice_32 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 There are definitely some really bad throws in there, but my biggest take away from that video is the lack of separation from our receivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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