There should be a national dialogue in getting back to work

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, Foxx said:

nah. it was about his friend who committed suicide and his grieving.

Lol....sure it was ?

[Foxx]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Lol....sure it was ?

no, you're absolutely right, it was all about him.

[LeGOATski]

3 minutes ago, Foxx said:

no, you're absolutely right, it was all about him.

I know.

[Q-baby!]

Let me know when there are 20000 suicides in 8 days. 

[Foxx]

3 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I know.

[daz28]

People are killing themselves, because they're laid off, or people are not returning to work, because they make more on unemployment.  Peddle whichever narrative fits your unfounded arguments.  Classic have it both ways tactic.

[LeGOATski]

3 minutes ago, daz28 said:

People are killing themselves, because they're laid off, or people are not returning to work, because they make more on unemployment.  Peddle whichever narrative fits your unfounded arguments.  Classic have it both ways tactic.

Don't forget: while blaming others for your "friend's" suicide.

 

3-way tactic

13 minutes ago, Q-baby! said:

Let me know when there are 20000 suicides in 8 days. 

well if there is, it's your fault for wanting to stay locked down!

 

Rraawwr!!

[dpberr]

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

She keeps asking about screening, but I don’t think business will be screening nearly the amount that some people think. It’s just not a realistic proposition. Perhaps waivers will need to be signed for gyms, etc. A temperature screening is probably about it. We’re not going to be able to test people on the spot to enter establishments etc. 

I'm all for states opening their economies up but businesses do have to exercise responsibility.  If that means they have to have an attendant out front taking a temperature or making sure each customer sanitizes hands, or maximum occupancy is 50% or whatever, that's the cost of being able to open your business.  It's better than having zero business.  I don't think business should be under the illusion that they just get to open the doors like it's January 2020 with zero f's given.

 

TBH, I don't know how places like gyms and bars are going to pull it off.    

[daz28]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Don't forget: while blaming others for your "friend's" suicide.

 

3-way tactic

well if there is, it's your fault for wanting to stay locked down!

 

Rraawwr!!

Fox's new shtick is find one person to interview who agrees with their ridiculous narrative.  

[shoshin]

51 minutes ago, dpberr said:

I'm all for states opening their economies up but businesses do have to exercise responsibility.  If that means they have to have an attendant out front taking a temperature or making sure each customer sanitizes hands, or maximum occupancy is 50% or whatever, that's the cost of being able to open your business.  It's better than having zero business.  I don't think business should be under the illusion that they just get to open the doors like it's January 2020 with zero f's given.

 

TBH, I don't know how places like gyms and bars are going to pull it off.    

 

Temperature screening is going to accomplish about zilch. Unless some idiot is out there trying to spread the disease, it just blocks that guy. With so many asymptomatic people out there, temp screening is a waste of time. 

 

I can't wait to go back to my gym and I'll be one of the first people back when it opens, but I'll only be safe by looking out for myself and even then I might not be safe from Covid-19. 

[Boatdrinks]

2 hours ago, shoshin said:

 

Temperature screening is going to accomplish about zilch. Unless some idiot is out there trying to spread the disease, it just blocks that guy. With so many asymptomatic people out there, temp screening is a waste of time. 

 

I can't wait to go back to my gym and I'll be one of the first people back when it opens, but I'll only be safe by looking out for myself and even then I might not be safe from Covid-19. 

Oh, I agree on the temperature screening. It’s like the TSA screening implemented after 9/11. Strictly for show. And also agreed on the gym deal along with other things. Nothing is really going to be all that safe from covid 19. Eventually we will all know individually if we are very  susceptible to it, kind of like a major food allergy. We will know our status and hopefully there will soon be highly effective treatments for those who would have an extremely negative reaction to it. 

[Hedge]

2 hours ago, shoshin said:

Temperature screening is going to accomplish about zilch. Unless some idiot is out there trying to spread the disease, it just blocks that guy. With so many asymptomatic people out there, temp screening is a waste of time. 

 

Completely agree.

My wife is in healthcare and they have been taking every employees temperature each time they enter the building. A whole branch of people, in a separate location, are now battling the virus because of someone who was asymptomatic.

 

Edit: I should have noted it's a small branch, ~5 people, but they all now have confirmed cases.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Hedge

[daz28]

I don't think temp testing is a good measure, but it is another tool.  The more tools the better.

[Hardhatharry]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

 

[Q-baby!]

A gathering of covidiots is known as a covfefe.

[Troll Toll]

33 minutes ago, Hardhatharry said:

 

Hmmm... lady with job essentially tells everyone to tough it out without a job indefinitely!? This thing isn’t necessarily ever going completely away. People have to toughen up and act responsibly as things open up. My mom was diagnosed with cancer last summer and can’t get the cancer treatments she was scheduled for because of the measures that have been put in place. Is it the governor’s fault that this lady’s facility still hasn’t figured out better ways to go about daily operations when we are months into this thing?

[Doc Brown]

Article I found interesting that may be an unintended consequence of "unemployment on steroids."

 

Restaurants’ bailout problem: Unemployment pays more

 

Restaurants represent less than 9 percent of Paycheck Protection loan recipients, but as of March accounted for the majority of layoffs nationwide.

 

 

 

“If the intention was to get people back to work, they’re not doing it,” said Tom Colicchio, the renowned restaurateur and “Top Chef” judge, who has been an advocate for small restaurants during the pandemic. “They’re not going to come back to work because unemployment is too attractive.”

 

Unemployment benefits vary by state, but in 2019, before the coronavirus crisis, the average weekly benefit nationwide was $370. A $600 sweetener that the stimulus bill added, on a temporary basis, to weekly unemployment checks raises the average weekly benefit to $970, an amount that approximates average weekly pay nationwide and is nearly double average weekly pay within the food industry: about $500 nationwide for full-time workers.

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

12 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Tons of people were laid off and found a way to not off themselves. That's a personal problem. Many more are also dying from the virus.. This guy's just making it all about him.

The guy lost a friend he’s apparently had for several decades, obviously feels strongly about the circumstances.  An emotional response is pretty typical in that scenario. But, what you’ve said is true...the emotion is about how he feels after his friend took his own life. I think it makes him a human being.  

[daz28]

4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Article I found interesting that may be an unintended consequence of "unemployment on steroids."

 

Restaurants’ bailout problem: Unemployment pays more

 

Restaurants represent less than 9 percent of Paycheck Protection loan recipients, but as of March accounted for the majority of layoffs nationwide.

 

 

 

“If the intention was to get people back to work, they’re not doing it,” said Tom Colicchio, the renowned restaurateur and “Top Chef” judge, who has been an advocate for small restaurants during the pandemic. “They’re not going to come back to work because unemployment is too attractive.”

 

Unemployment benefits vary by state, but in 2019, before the coronavirus crisis, the average weekly benefit nationwide was $370. A $600 sweetener that the stimulus bill added, on a temporary basis, to weekly unemployment checks raises the average weekly benefit to $970, an amount that approximates average weekly pay nationwide and is nearly double average weekly pay within the food industry: about $500 nationwide for full-time workers.

 

 

This is fake news.  You can't refuse to return to work, and still collect unemployment.  Also, the owners are given loans that will actually pay their employees for them, which will be forgiven.  You'd think the government paying their payrolls would be looked at as a really good thing. 

[Magox]

12 hours ago, daz28 said:

People are killing themselves, because they're laid off, or people are not returning to work, because they make more on unemployment.  Peddle whichever narrative fits your unfounded arguments.  Classic have it both ways tactic.

 

12 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Don't forget: while blaming others for your "friend's" suicide.

 

3-way tactic

well if there is, it's your fault for wanting to stay locked down!

 

Rraawwr!!

 

 

I guess you guys don't believe of the negative effects of the shutdown and what it does to people's health.

 

Suicide hotlines increase by 8000%

 

 

Quote

 

Calls to a suicide and help hotline in Los Angeles went up more than 8,000% from February to March because of the novel coronavirus.

According to the Orange County Register, the Didi Hirsch Mental Health Services Center in Los Angeles took 22 calls to their hotline related to COVID-19 in February.

But one month later, that number soared to 1,800 calls.

 

 

I'm pretty certain that in April it will be higher than March.   A quick google search and you will see that suicide hotline phone calls are soaring throughout the country.

 

How many patients are dying because they aren't able to get medical care because of the shutdown?

 

Patients with heart attacks, strokes and even appendicitis vanish from hospitals.

 

 

Quote

 

Soon after he repurposed his 60-bed cardiac unit to accommodate covid-19 patients, Mount Sinai cardiovascular surgeon John Puskas was stumped: With nearly all the beds now occupied by victims of the novel coronavirus, where had all the heart patients gone? Even those left almost speechless by crushing chest pain weren’t coming through the ER.

Variations on that question have puzzled clinicians not only in New York, the most severe area of the U.S. outbreak, but across the country and in Spain, the United Kingdom and China. Five weeks into a nationwide coronavirus lockdown, many doctors say the pandemic has produced a silent sub-epidemic of people who need care at hospitals but dare not come in. They include people with inflamed appendixes, infected gall bladders, bowel obstructions and, more ominously, chest pains and stroke symptoms, according to these physicians and early research.

“Everybody is frightened to come to the ER,” Puskas said.

 

 

 

Where have all the heart attacks gone?

 

Quote

What is striking is that many of the emergencies have disappeared. Heart attack and stroke teams, always poised to rush in and save lives, are mostly idle. This is not just at my hospital. My fellow cardiologists have shared with me that their cardiology consultations have shrunk, except those related to Covid-19. In an informal Twitter poll by @angioplastyorg, an online community of cardiologists, almost half of the respondents reported that they are seeing a 40 percent to 60 percent reduction in admissions for heart attacks; about 20 percent reported more than a 60 percent reduction.

 

The Pandemics Hidden Victims, sick or dying but not from the Virus

 

 

Quote

 

Maria Kefalas considers her husband, Patrick Carr, a forgotten victim of the coronavirus.

In January, Mr. Carr, a sociology professor at Rutgers University, suffered a relapse of the blood cancer that he has had for eight years. Once again, he required chemotherapy to try to bring the disease, multiple myeloma, under control.

But this time, as the coronavirus began raging through Philadelphia, blood supplies were rationed and he couldn’t get enough of the transfusions needed to alleviate his anemia and allow chemo to begin. Clinic visits were canceled even as his condition worsened.

For Mr. Carr and many others, the pandemic has shaken every aspect of health care, including cancer, organ transplants and even brain surgery.

On April 7, Mr. Carr began receiving home hospice care. He died on April 16. He was 53. The pandemic “expedited his death,” Ms. Kefalas said.

 

Nearly one in four cancer patients reported delays in their care because of the pandemic, including access to in-person appointments, imaging, surgery and other services, according to a recent survey by the American Cancer Society’s Cancer Action Network.

Tzvia Bader, who leads the company TrialJectory, which helps cancer patients find clinical trials, said frightened patients had been calling to ask her advice about postponements in their treatment.

One woman had undergone surgery for melanoma that had spread to her liver, and was due to begin immunotherapy, but was told it would be delayed for an unknown length of time.

“She says, ‘What’s going to happen to me?’” Ms. Bader said. “This is not improving her chances.”

And some clinical trials, where cancer patients can receive innovative therapies, have been suspended.

 

 

 

Do you think this means that Cancer, heart and stroke afflictions are happening less now?  No, it just means they are suffering in their homes without getting the critical care they need.

 

And Stress is the 7th leading cause of death in the United States.  It leads to weakened immune systems which puts heart and cancer patients at more risk.  What are some of the leading causes of stress?  Unemployment and isolation induce lots of stress.

 

  If you had read the original post you would have read that as a result of the 2008 downturn according to a Harvard Study, hundreds of thousands of people died as a result of this.  

 

And there are estimates that we will see half a billion people in the world will ENTER INTO poverty as a result of the downturn.  It is an undeniable fact that people in poverty have worse diets, health habits and access to care which all lead to worse health outcomes.

 

Apparently you think these stay-at-home orders and the residual effects on peoples health is a hoax.  It's not.  

 

Educate yourselves.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Magox

[GG]

Just now, Magox said:

 

 

Apparently you think these stay-at-home orders and the residual effects on peoples health is a hoax.  It's not.  

 

 

 

Careful in using the loaded term "hoax"   It triggers many people.

[Magox]

Just now, GG said:

 

Careful in using the loaded term "hoax"   It triggers many people.

 

That was my intention.

[Westside]

13 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Don't forget: while blaming others for your "friend's" suicide.

 

3-way tactic

well if there is, it's your fault for wanting to stay locked down!

 

Rraawwr!!

You really don't give a ***** about people. Keep the economy closed so we can elect biden. That's the only thing you care about. So sad.

[Q-baby!]

3 minutes ago, westside2 said:

You really don't give a ***** about people. Keep the economy closed so we can elect biden. That's the only thing you care about. So sad.

You really don’t give a ***** about people. Open the economy too soon and keep Trump. That’s the only thing you care about. So sad. 

[Tiberius]

51 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

 

 

I guess you guys don't believe of the negative effects of the shutdown and what it does to people's health.

 

Suicide hotlines increase by 8000%

 

 

 

I'm pretty certain that in April it will be higher than March.   A quick google search and you will see that suicide hotline phone calls are soaring throughout the country.

 

How many patients are dying because they aren't able to get medical care because of the shutdown?

 

Patients with heart attacks, strokes and even appendicitis vanish from hospitals.

 

 

 

 

Where have all the heart attacks gone?

 

 

The Pandemics Hidden Victims, sick or dying but not from the Virus

 

 

 

 

Do you think this means that Cancer, heart and stroke afflictions are happening less now?  No, it just means they are suffering in their homes without getting the critical care they need.

 

And Stress is the 7th leading cause of death in the United States.  It leads to weakened immune systems which puts heart and cancer patients at more risk.  What are some of the leading causes of stress?  Unemployment and isolation induce lots of stress.

 

  If you had read the original post you would have read that as a result of the 2008 downturn according to a Harvard Study, hundreds of thousands of people died as a result of this.  

 

And there are estimates that we will see half a billion people in the world will ENTER INTO poverty as a result of the downturn.  It is an undeniable fact that people in poverty have worse diets, health habits and access to care which all lead to worse health outcomes.

 

Apparently you think these stay-at-home orders and the residual effects on peoples health is a hoax.  It's not.  

 

Educate yourselves.

So let's make it worse by letting everyone gather together in restaurants, sports facilities and schools? Ya, that will decrease the stress! LOL 

 

Hospitals will be over loaded, attacks on people who cough, fear of not returning to a dangerous work place on threat of being fired, ya, no stress there. Instant gratification society can't take the waiting, I guess 

[daz28]

54 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

 

 

I guess you guys don't believe of the negative effects of the shutdown and what it does to people's health.

 

Suicide hotlines increase by 8000%

 

 

I never said it didn't effect people's mental health.  I said people ain't killing themselves, because they're laid off getting $1k/week on unemployment.  

[/dev/null]

Just now, daz28 said:

I never said it didn't effect people's mental health.

 

I hope you didn't say that, because then you would be a moron.  I hope instead you said it didn't affect people's mental health

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, /dev/null said:

 

I hope you didn't say that, because then you would be a moron.  I hope instead you said it didn't affect people's mental health

You know just enough stuff to annoy people. Great affect 

[shoshin]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

 

Do you think this means that Cancer, heart and stroke afflictions are happening less now?  No, it just means they are suffering in their homes without getting the critical care they need.

 

 

My wife works with an at-risk population daily. Your second sentence is EXACTLY what is happening. It is a nightmare and what's worse is that many of the support services outside of the medical care but related are also shut down or running barebones. Meals. Transport. Medical supply delivery. An entire chain of homecare support is nearly shut down. Thank a doctor and thank a nurse. But really, thank anyone in healthcare right now. What there are doing not only treating covid patients, but trying to keep the remaining healthcare system from collapsing, is heroic. It's that dire.  

Edited April 22, 2020 by shoshin

[daz28]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

My wife works with an at-risk population daily. Your second sentence is EXACTLY what is happening. It is a nightmare and what's worse is that many of the support services outside of the medical care but related are also shut down or running barebones. Meals. Transport. Medical supply delivery. An entire chain of homecare support is nearly shut down. Thank a doctor and thank a nurse. But really, thank anyone in healthcare right now. What is happening not just treating covid patients but trying to keep the remaining healthcare system from collapsing is heroic. It's that dire.  

What they need is a break mentally and physically.  They also need to restock their PPP.  All of which point to why restarting prematurely is a terrible idea.  

15 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

So let's make it worse by letting everyone gather together in restaurants, sports facilities and schools? Ya, that will decrease the stress! LOL 

 

Hospitals will be over loaded, attacks on people who cough, fear of not returning to a dangerous work place on threat of being fired, ya, no stress there. Instant gratification society can't take the waiting, I guess 

This is an important point, because things aren't magically going back to normal.  People are going to be avoiding public places anyways, and looking at each other like they're the grim reaper.

[shoshin]

Just now, daz28 said:

What they need is a break mentally and physically.  They also need to restock their PPP.  All of which point to why restarting prematurely is a terrible idea.  

 

PPP is here but I know what you're saying. PPE is less of an issue now finally and that should not be an issue for the fall rise in cases. 

 

There's no break. Once hospitals "reopen" for anything like normal, they will be flooded with non-Covid issues that will have only gotten worse since this began.

[/dev/null]

15 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 

 

That voice I hear whenever I see a post from Tibs

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mReBGiiubl0

 

[daz28]

7 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

PPP is here but I know what you're saying. PPE is less of an issue now finally and that should not be an issue for the fall rise in cases. 

 

There's no break. Once hospitals "reopen" for anything like normal, they will be flooded with non-Covid issues that will have only gotten worse since this began.

That's a good point, but at least it will be more scheduled things as opposed to emergency situation after emergency situation.  Maybe they can rotate some people out.

[Magox]

27 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

My wife works with an at-risk population daily. Your second sentence is EXACTLY what is happening. It is a nightmare and what's worse is that many of the support services outside of the medical care but related are also shut down or running barebones. Meals. Transport. Medical supply delivery. An entire chain of homecare support is nearly shut down. Thank a doctor and thank a nurse. But really, thank anyone in healthcare right now. What there are doing not only treating covid patients, but trying to keep the remaining healthcare system from collapsing, is heroic. It's that dire.  

 

Yep, which reinforces the case that in the low infected areas they should be relaxing some of the restrictions so that these people get the care they need.

[Tiberius]

Low infected place today, is high infected place tomorrow 

[sabrecrazed]

I remember when this whole shut down was sold to us as a measure we needed to take so that the hospitals weren't overrun. That didn't happen so it seems we just pivot and find new ways to keep people in hysterics. 

[3rdnlng]

8 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Low infected place today, is high infected place tomorrow 

Confused say...............................................................................

[/dev/null]

 

[daz28]

6 minutes ago, sabrecrazed said:

I remember when this whole shut down was sold to us as a measure we needed to take so that the hospitals weren't overrun. That didn't happen so it seems we just pivot and find new ways to keep people in hysterics. 

Do you know why the hospitals weren't overrun?  Think of it like a salary cap.  People think it's to keep teams competitive, but it's really made for cost certainty.  We're continuing the quarantine, because we know that it is saving lives, even though that wasn't what it was initially billed as.  I hate when people use the words panic and hysterical.  Look up the definitions.  Panic means irrational: there's nothing irrational about fearing for everyone's safety.  Hysterical is uncontrolled emotion.  I haven't run into any hysterical people yet.

[B-Man]

The left's slogans give it away

by Dex Bahr

Original Article

 

As we go through yet another week of Wuhan virus restriction in the United States, do you find yourself becoming annoyed at the daily sloganeering? We see these messages on television, hear them on radio and flashed before us while driving. I, for one, am beginning to tire of this "we're all in this together" claptrap, along with "flattening (or bending) the curve"; social distancing; and "stay safe, stay strong."

 

However, the one slogan that is most irritating is "stay at home...save lives." Let's not forget that original reason for sheltering at home

 

More at the link.

 

 

.