LeSean McCoy wants to retire an Eagle

[MDH]

Was never much of a Shady fan anyway. I thought his contributions to the team were way overblown by the Bills' fan base. He was a good, not great back with us.

 

I don't fault him for wanting to retire an Eagle, he had his best years there.

[dave mcbride]

22 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

In the Chiefs offense.....which averages 6.2 yards per play.......McCoy's raw numbers are replacement level.

 

Damien Williams is a career journeyman backup type RB and put up the same numbers past 2 years.

 

The issue with McCoy is the 3 fumbles...........one of them cost the Chiefs a win.

 

 

 

 

This is misleading. It averages 6.2 ypp because of passing (Mahomes averages 8.3 ypp). He's averaging 4.6 ypc, which is in line with his historic rate (4.5) when he hasn't been saddled with an awful line.  Williams also averaged 4.6 ypc. You're right about the fumbling. He's fumbling at 2.5 percent per touch rate this year, which is huge in this day and age. It's a true outlier, however, because historically he hasn't been a fumbler. He had zero fumbles on 195 touches last year. Prior to this season, he fumbled at a .077 percent rate, which is upper echelon. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by dave mcbride

[C.Biscuit97]

25 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

In the Chiefs offense.....which averages 6.2 yards per play.......McCoy's raw numbers are replacement level.

 

Damien Williams is a career journeyman backup type RB and put up the same numbers past 2 years.

 

The issue with McCoy is the 3 fumbles...........one of them cost the Chiefs a win.

 

 

 

 

Mahomes’ passing completely inflates that.  The fumbles are a very valid point though. 4.6 is a very good ypc though. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

It averages 6.2 ypp because of passing (Mahomes averages 8.3 ypp). He's averaging 4.6 ypc, which is in line with his historic rate when he hasn't been saddled with an awful line.  Williams also averaged 4.6 ypc. You're right about the fumbling. He's fumbling at 2.5 percent per touch rate this year, which is huge in this day and age. It's a bit of an outlier because historically he hasn't been a fumbler. He had zero fumbles on 195 touches last year. Prior to this season, he fumbled at a .077 percent rate, which is upper echelon. 

 

 

Interestingly the spread between the Chiefs ypp 6.2 and their ypc 4.6 is the same 1.6 yards as the spread between the Bills ypp 5.2 and Gore's ypc 3.6.

 

The real story of McCoy's departure is Devin Singletary..........to produce like he did behind a rather finesse line without the support of even a decent passing game was incredibly impressive.........his yards after first contact have to be incredible.

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Shady has earned the right to go out however he wants.....

 

Dont have a bad thing to say about him.......but he was a merc for the bills

 

He did his job until it was time to go. Speaking of, Beane & Co look pretty smart moving on when they did. You know how everyone fawns over the Patriots for knowing when to deal players? Well...

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Interestingly the spread between the Chiefs ypp 6.2 and their ypc 4.6 is the same 1.6 yards as the spread between the Bills ypp 5.2 and Gore's ypc 3.6.

 

The real story of McCoy's departure is Devin Singletary..........to produce like he did behind a rather finesse line without the support of even a decent passing game was incredibly impressive.........his yards after first contact have to be incredible.

My guess is that a spread like that is pretty typical given that passing plays generate more yards per play but at a higher risk. That's why fumbling is so unacceptable now - you're accepting you're going to get fewer yards through running, so you better not turn it over. Back in the old days, the great RBs fumbled at a rate between 2.5 and 3 percent (OJ, Franco Harris, Dorsett, Jim Brown ...). No one does now. If they did, they'd be out of the league.

[Boca BIlls]

7 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

can't blame him. I would not of been happy either the way he was let go. 

 

I'm pulling for the 49ers but if kc wins I'll be glad to see him get a ring.

His best years were with the Eagles.... Nothing to do with how he was let go.

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, eball said:

Wouldn't expect him to do anything different.  He has an interesting spin on his departure from Buffalo, though...said he was "better than the guys they had there" and the cut was a surprise because there were trade offers that the Bills "shot down."  Probably just a bit of an ego hit for the guy.  No harm no foul.  Singletary was much better than Shady would have been in our backfield last year.

 

He was better than dead legs Gore. I can understand why he felt a bit jilted. Worked out for him. He will get his ring on Sunday. And with a ring he is pretty much a shoe in for the HoF. 

[C.Biscuit97]

8 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

He did his job until it was time to go. Speaking of, Beane & Co look pretty smart moving on when they did. You know how everyone fawns over the Patriots for knowing when to deal players? Well...

I’m pretty sure he is better than Gore.  But maybe his ego couldn’t handle not being the man.  Still insane how we didn’t use DS more. 

[fansince88]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

This is exactly why he was cut. It wasn’t about money. It was because he couldn’t accept his own decline. He wouldn’t have been able to accept giving Singletary more carries. He wouldn’t have been able to be a “role player.” The Bills knew that, and didn’t want to deal with him having any kind of negative impact on singletary. 

 

 

 

And exactly why I championed the idea. He would have been more of a deterance to Devin excelling as a runner. Gore was the veteran presence he needed.

5 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

End of the day the Bills kept Gore who lost more than a step or two,  let's hope HC Sean learns his lesson with keeping the good old boys with limited talent.  Your not winning with losers like Smith/Dimarco/Kroft and Murphy who need to go or this team will never take the next step and win a playoff game.  

Big picture.  They are building a team still. Eventually the "vet in the room" isnt going to be an issue.

[BADOLBILZ]

18 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Mahomes’ passing completely inflates that.  The fumbles are a very valid point though. 4.6 is a very good ypc though. 

 

 

Well yeah..........Mahomes passing inflates their rushing efficiency numbers.    

 

Damien Williams was a career 3.6 ypc back in 4 years in Miami and has put up 5.1 and 4.6 in his two years with KC.

 

I don't think many teams would trade RB duo's with KC........Williams/old McCoy is a bottom 5 combo..........but I would guess that KC is probably near the top of the league in RB yards before contact because defenses are so stretched vertically they would rather give up the run yards to avoid getting gashed.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

19 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

He did his job until it was time to go. Speaking of, Beane & Co look pretty smart moving on when they did. You know how everyone fawns over the Patriots for knowing when to deal players? Well...

 

 

...EXACTLY......he burned no bridges when leaving like Moulds, Wilson's pampered pet did......retire an Eagle?...so be it...no harm no foul.............

[fansince88]

5 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

I remember that, but during the preseason games Singletary seemed to do a lot better as a receiver than taking handoffs. 
 

One thing really bugging me about Shady at the time was the way he was interacting with Cole Beasley. Some on here saw it as good natured fun, but I thought McCoy looked like a total dbag.

What was he doing? I honestly dont remember.

[dave mcbride]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Well yeah..........Mahomes passing inflates their rushing efficiency numbers.    

 

Damien Williams was a career 3.6 ypc back in 4 years in Miami and has put up 5.1 and 4.6 in his two years with KC.

 

I don't think many teams would trade RB duo's with KC........Williams/old McCoy is a bottom 5 combo..........but I would guess that KC is probably near the top of the league in RB yards before contact because defenses are so stretched vertically they would rather give up the run yards to avoid getting gashed.

91 of Damien Williams 498 yards came on one play this season. 

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

My guess is that a spread like that is pretty typical given that passing plays generate more yards per play but at a higher risk. That's why fumbling is so unacceptable now - you're accepting you're going to get fewer yards through running, so you better not turn it over. Back in the old days, the great RBs fumbled at a rate between 2.5 and 3 percent (OJ, Franco Harris, Dorsett, Jim Brown ...). No one does now. If they did, they'd be out of the league.

 

I suspect an overall 1.6 yard difference between team ypp and RB ypc is not pretty typical at all..........it's a lot.

 

Gore had a very inefficient season per carry..........more than half a yard below league average per carry.

 

But I think that 1.6 yard split shows that relatively speaking McCoy and Williams were no better.

 

And how many teams would trade RB tandems with KC?   Does anyone think that's a good unit?   Williams was a 3rd down back in Miami and McCoy is for all intents and purposes washed up.

 

Devin Singletary, on the other hand, had 5.1 ypc and the Bills offense averaged 5.2 ypp..........I guess that's an argument for handing it off.

 

 

 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I suspect an overall 1.6 yard difference between team ypp and RB ypc is not pretty typical at all..........it's a lot.

 

Gore had a very inefficient season per carry..........more than half a yard below league average per carry.

 

But I think that 1.6 yard split shows that relatively speaking McCoy and Williams were no better.

 

And how many teams would trade RB tandems with KC?   Does anyone think that's a good unit?   Williams was a 3rd down back in Miami and McCoy is for all intents and purposes washed up.

 

Devin Singletary, on the other hand, had 5.1 ypc and the Bills offense averaged 5.2 ypp..........I guess that's an argument for handing it off.

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, I randomly looked up one team metaphorically blindfolded: the Rams. They averaged 5.7 ypp and 3.7 ypc. So, no that's not right. 

 

EDIT: @BADOLBILZ - The Pats were 5.2 and 3.8. The Saints were 5.9 and 4.3. The Cowboys were 6.5 and 4.8. The Raiders were 5.9 and 4.3. The Texans were 5.7 and 4.6. Minnesota was 5.8 and 4.5.  I stopped after that because the trend line makes it obvious: a spread of 1.6 is pretty normal. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by dave mcbride

[turftoe]

Didn't McCoy act all surprised when he got cut? Seems like I remember him acting out a bit when he got cut.  Now it's pretty clear that he initiated the whole thing. 

[BADOLBILZ]

28 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Actually, I randomly looked up one team metaphorically blindfolded: the Rams. They averaged 5.7 ypp and 3.7 ypc. So, no that's not right. 

 

EDIT: @BADOLBILZ - The Pats were 5.2 and 3.8. The Saints were 5.9 and 4.3. The Cowboys were 6.5 and 4.8. The Raiders were 5.9 and 4.3. The Texans were 5.7 and 4.6. Minnesota was 5.8 and 4.5.  I stopped after that because the trend line makes it obvious: a spread of 1.6 is pretty normal. 

 

 

 

Using overall ypc like you did the Chiefs and Rams tied for the biggest spread in the NFL at 2.0................so the Chiefs spread was unusually high.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

51 minutes ago, fansince88 said:

What was he doing? I honestly dont remember.

 

He was giving him crap about being small, having small feet, whether he'd go to the pro-bowl this year etc etc

I expect way worse goes on in the locker room and requires letting it go

[fansince88]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He was giving him crap about being small, having small feet, whether he'd go to the pro-bowl this year etc etc

I expect way worse goes on in the locker room and requires letting it go

Yes. I remember it now and remember thinking it is a locker room full of guys being guys.

[Punching Bag]

8 hours ago, BuffaloBillies said:

Here comes the ceremonial $1 contract with Filthadelphia

 

Don't forget the ceremonial "please fill this cup" for the piss test.

7 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

More interesting is his comment that he was trying to leave and they wouldn't let him.  Wonder if that went back to 2018.

 

When players are leaving are they offering to give back portions of signing bonuses?

If not they are not trying hard.

[Punching Bag]

6 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Most likely he's not on the Chief active roster for 2020 or any other team.  This might be his last chance for a ring.    If he gets it or not it won't make a difference to me and I hold no ill will toward the guy.  My focus is on the Bills going forward. 

 

I think there is enough respect for McCoy still to get on a roster during training camp.  Whether he gets high enough offer or stays on a roster is another issue.  Ideally for him the Eagles would lose a back between draft and training camp.

3 hours ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

This is newsworthy?

 

Newsworthy enough for you to make a reply.

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

My guess is that a spread like that is pretty typical given that passing plays generate more yards per play but at a higher risk. That's why fumbling is so unacceptable now - you're accepting you're going to get fewer yards through running, so you better not turn it over. Back in the old days, the great RBs fumbled at a rate between 2.5 and 3 percent (OJ, Franco Harris, Dorsett, Jim Brown ...). No one does now. If they did, they'd be out of the league.

 

Singletary was 2.6%

[formerlyofCtown]

16 hours ago, wagon127 said:

Frank Gore had a better year too. That says alot. The chiefs have needed their best players on the field the last 2 weeks, and Reid hasnt had him touch the football once, and only played 1 snap.

Unfortunately older RBs tend to ware down towards the end of the season.  I believe you will see him in the SB.  He will likely be well rested.

Edited January 29, 2020 by formerlyofCtown

[Bill from NYC]

14 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

He did his job until it was time to go. Speaking of, Beane & Co look pretty smart moving on when they did. You know how everyone fawns over the Patriots for knowing when to deal players? Well...

Fair enough.

[dave mcbride]

14 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

Using overall ypc like you did the Chiefs and Rams tied for the biggest spread in the NFL at 2.0................so the Chiefs spread was unusually high.

 

Tampa Bay’s was over 2.0. Basically, if the qb has a high ypa rate, then the spread will be bigger. 4.2 ypc is upper end.

12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Singletary was 2.6%

Yeah, it was really bad - worst in the league with backs over 100 touches, if memory serves. Chris Carson led all backs wit 7 fumbles, but fumbled at a 2.2 percent rate (still bad). That said, Singletary was a rookie with a rep for not fumbling in college. If he contnues to fumble at that rate, he won’t be a Bill for long.

Edited January 29, 2020 by dave mcbride

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Tampa Bay’s was over 2.0. Basically, if the qb has a high ypa rate, then the spread will be bigger. 4.2 ypc is upper end.

Yeah, it was really bad - worst in the league with backs over 100 touches, if memory serves. Chris Carson led all backs wit 7 fumbles, but fumbled at a 2.2 percent rate (still bad). That said, Singletary was a rookie with a rep for not fumbling in college. If he contnues to fumble at that rate, he won’t be a Bill for long.

 

No 4.2 ypc is not upper end............it was only good for 20th best in the NFL this year...........definitely a far cry from the top which was Baltimore at 5.5.

 

I don't know if the spread between ypp and ypc is all that telling as a stand alone but what you do see is that the other teams at the upper end of that split threw the ball A LOT more than the Chiefs...........which inevitably raises their yards per play.......that's a statistical given.   Those teams struggled and found themselves behind by a lot or in shootouts often.

 

Interestingly the Chiefs were only 15th in pass attempts on the season so contrary to some of the suppositions made earlier........their ypp isn't really loaded by Mahomes pass volume.

 

They were just explosive in the pass game when they threw which kept defenses on their heels and they were then able to stay more balanced because they weren't playing from behind a lot.............which helped mask one of the least desirable RB tandems in the NFL.   

 

 

[dave mcbride]

24 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

No 4.2 ypc is not upper end............it was only good for 20th best in the NFL this year...........definitely a far cry from the top which was Baltimore at 5.5.

 

I don't know if the spread between ypp and ypc is all that telling as a stand alone but what you do see is that the other teams at the upper end of that split threw the ball A LOT more than the Chiefs...........which inevitably raises their yards per play.......that's a statistical given.   Those teams struggled and found themselves behind by a lot or in shootouts often.

 

Interestingly the Chiefs were only 15th in pass attempts on the season so contrary to some of the suppositions made earlier........their ypp isn't really loaded by Mahomes pass volume.

 

They were just explosive in the pass game when they threw which kept defenses on their heels and they were then able to stay more balanced because they weren't playing from behind a lot.............which helped mask one of the least desirable RB tandems in the NFL.   

 

 

You are right about 4.2 being middling. In my sampling, I seemed to randomly pick the teams below them at a disproportionate rate. I do disagree about the ypp being higher for bad teams because the bad teams - i.e., the Bengals, Redskins, etc.  -- had such bad ypa numbers that it dramatically affects averages w/regard to yards per play. TB had an explosive offense that put up a ton of yards, and that happened in games they won and lost. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-pass-attempt

 

Interestingly, Chicago was worst in the league. They spent a second overall pick on Trubisky with Mahomes (KC finished second) and Watson (Houston finished 12th) on the board. My word.  I won't call him a bust yet because he has talent and is still young, but the early returns are not good. 

[MAJBobby]

 

Shady on Bills Fans

[wagon127]

On 1/28/2020 at 9:58 AM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Are we sure Gore had a better year?  He averaged 3.6 ypc and 2 tds.  Shady averaged 4.6 ypc (I m honestly shocked by that) and had 4 tds.  I don’t know if there is more to the story but when given carries, he’s actually been fairly productive. 

I think Andy Reid was smart enough to bench him, and play him significantly less as the season went on. The Bills stubbornly kepy using Gore more then they should, which killed Gore's average.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, wagon127 said:

I think Andy Reid was smart enough to bench him, and play him significantly less as the season went on. The Bills stubbornly kepy using Gore more then they should, which killed Gore's average.

 

 

After 5 games Gore was averaging about 4.5 ypc...........but he was on a pace for a ridiculous 240+ carries.

 

He did the heavy lifting for the team at a high level to get them out to the 5-1 start which got them to the playoffs.   

 

He deserves A LOT more credit than he's gotten.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

You are right about 4.2 being middling. In my sampling, I seemed to randomly pick the teams below them at a disproportionate rate. I do disagree about the ypp being higher for bad teams because the bad teams - i.e., the Bengals, Redskins, etc.  -- had such bad ypa numbers that it dramatically affects averages w/regard to yards per play. TB had an explosive offense that put up a ton of yards, and that happened in games they won and lost. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-pass-attempt

 

Interestingly, Chicago was worst in the league. They spent a second overall pick on Trubisky with Mahomes (KC finished second) and Watson (Houston finished 12th) on the board. My word.  I won't call him a bust yet because he has talent and is still young, but the early returns are not good. 

 

 

I'm not expecting to see much of the Chiefs running game Sunday.

 

The parallels between this 49ers/Chiefs SB and SB XIX between 15-1 49ers and 14-2 Dolphins are pretty striking to me............the Niners being the better overall team with the great defensive front and outstanding but underrated QB and better run game..............and the Chiefs with the league's best passer at QB with the big name receiving threats and the flawed but recently successful defense that's not unlike that Dolphins "Killer B's" defense.

 

[BillsFan4]

Quote

“I feel like winning a Super Bowl is like a lifetime thing. Come on? How many great players that haven’t been here, some that haven’t won. So I’m excited. I’m not going to complain. I can’t be selfish. This is probably the first time I’ve ever been in a situation where it was like this is bigger than Shady McCoy.”

And that’s why he was cut when it became clear that he wasn’t going to be the clear cut #1 RB anymore. 

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Shady on Bills Fans

I hold no grudge against McCoy. No issue with his time here. He was a star for the Bills for a while there. Super fun to watch. 

 

I totally understand why he wants to retire an Eagle.

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I'm not expecting to see much of the Chiefs running game Sunday.

 

The parallels between this 49ers/Chiefs SB and SB XIX between 15-1 49ers and 14-2 Dolphins are pretty striking to me............the Niners being the better overall team with the great defensive front and outstanding but underrated QB and better run game..............and the Chiefs with the league's best passer at QB with the big name receiving threats and the flawed but recently successful defense that's not unlike that Dolphins "Killer B's" defense.

 

I brought up that 1984 SB with a colleague at work earlier today when he asked my thoughts on the game!  Worth noting that Garrapolo has a lot of SB prep experience too. He didn't play, of course, but he's been to a couple of them and you know BB had him ready if duty had called.

[ILBillsfan]

Probably the correct place for him to retire no issues with it

[Mr. WEO]

Whatever he "goes in as"...this guy should do his intro:

 

 

https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/marcus-vick-lesean-mccoy-gave-my-baby-mama-herpes.1060646/

 

[LSHMEAB]

I mean, did anyone catch the part in which he stated he wanted a trade before the cut?

 

Sounds like the feelings were mutual.

Edited January 30, 2020 by LSHMEAB

[purple haze]

14 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

 That said, Singletary was a rookie with a rep for not fumbling in college. If he contnues to fumble at that rate, he won’t be a Bill for long.

In college he could get away with his moves without most being able to recover.  In the league he's still slippery, but there is always someone on their way, fast enough to get back in the play and poke at the rock.  And sometimes making those moves loosens the grip on the ball slightly, but enough to get it knocked out if a back is unsuspecting; and 26 has never had to suspect a defender is getting back in a play after he shakes two or three of them.

[BillsFan4]

Sorry if this was already posted.

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/28/lesean-mccoy-buffalo-bills-not-honest-brandon-beane/

 

Quote

Despite understanding, McCoy explained he still wasn’t completely happy how things went down.

 

“I just wish they would have been more honest, because I was trying to get out of there,” McCoy said. “So it was weird. So many things entered my mind.”

 

The running back explained he was getting phone calls from teams and others around the NFL tying to trade for him starting around the 2018 trade deadline.