Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, sherpa said: I appreciate your comments, and mean no disdain. It is just very obvious that in reading your posts, you don't, or didn't, do this for a living. Your posts contain a lot of conjecture, if not guesses. Most are reasonable, but some are not. Regarding experience, which you bought up, I will not argue. I have flown small singles, have a double II, flown fighters from an aircraft carrier, a tour as a TopGun adversary, and airliners for over three decades. I don't want any more experience. Roger that. Actually I was coming back to tender a bit of an apology so I do appreciate your response. You kind of got my goat a little bit and I shouldn't have let it out to be got. I don't want to go into it but it's a bad day here due to some news that just dropped (involving a young man who died tragically last fall, not aviation related) and I'm rocky. Yeah, I'm conjecturing and guessing and I'm sure some are wrong (just not as wrong as a bunch of the stuff in the media or on some of the pilot boards!!). That is kind of what we do here! I've been a pilot for >20 years and used to fly all over the country. Unfortunately it's not a bit exaggerated how many friends or pilots I knew who have died, not in service or for a higher cause, just doing something that looked at from the outside, was somewhere between boundry-pushing and hella dumb. Some of them took my friends with them (and I'm still doing some angry in there I guess). Please don't think I believe I'm a smarter girl - I've done my flights where I thought I was making good, de-risking pilot decisions but in retrospect I was just lucky. Thank you for your service. I aviate near what used to be Mc-D/TWA central, why I know (or have known) pilots with similar backgrounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 6 hours ago, sherpa said: This is what happens when people not familiar with the way these things work start judging them. Not you, but whoever posted what you referred to. Helicopters are a special sub set of aviation, and they frequently use ground reference for navigation. Special VFR is an alternative for them that allows them to fly as long as they stay clear of clouds and have a very low visibility requirement. They are so low that they rarely get into the regular system. I fact they rarely fly using IFR rules and clearances. Some never do for their entire helo career. Areas that have a high degree of helo traffic, for whatever reason, come up with their own procedures and agreements for these types of things, and helo corridors are built to facilitate it. New York and LA are two of the most obvious. These types of things involve police, sight-seeing, personal transport, power line inspection and a host of other things. Having this guy, who is under special VFR, and that never changes, navigate by using highways or other ground based points is not unusual for this area. What he should have done is land at Van Nuys and let them Uber it to the practice site. Good insight thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Man, gut wrenching...Vanessa Bryant just made her IG public and spoke out for the first time.... https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/vanessa-bryant-breaks-silence-husband-kobe-bryants-death-i-wish-they-were-here-us-forever-1274754?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=THR Breaking News_now_2020-01-29 17:21:14_kkilkenny&utm_term=hollywoodreporter_breakingnews 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Kobe death is sad enough. Every time I see that little girl’s face though it’s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/abc-news-suspends-matt-gutman-for-inaccurately-reporting-all-four-of-kobe-bryants-children-were-on-helicopter/ar-BBZsVH0?li=BBnb7Kz I heard him say it live and he didn’t catch himself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 14 minutes ago, Virgil said: https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/abc-news-suspends-matt-gutman-for-inaccurately-reporting-all-four-of-kobe-bryants-children-were-on-helicopter/ar-BBZsVH0?li=BBnb7Kz I heard him say it live and he didn’t catch himself. Glad there are still people holding themselves accountable when they spread disinformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) As this investigation proceeds, watch for two things. First, nobody operates these type helos under FAA Part 135, (charters), with only one pilot. Second, watch for NTSB comments about the number of passengers. In addition, there is a disparity between what Kobe paid for this helicopter and the market value of similar make/model helos. That disparity usually means something. Edited January 30, 2020 by sherpa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Kobe death is sad enough. Every time I see that little girl’s face though it’s I understand. Three little girls as I understand it, though.https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-01-27/kobe-bryant-helicopter-crash-victims That's one thing that bothers me about the coverage of the crash. Obviously, Kobe was a Star of Stars and his daughter known on social media. But there were three young girls on that chopper, both parents of one of them, and two other wives. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Update from NTSB investigator. No new info really except timeline for NTSB preliminary (factual) report (10 days) https://deadline.com/2020/01/kobe-bryant-crash-1202843161/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 9 hours ago, Virgil said: https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/abc-news-suspends-matt-gutman-for-inaccurately-reporting-all-four-of-kobe-bryants-children-were-on-helicopter/ar-BBZsVH0?li=BBnb7Kz I heard him say it live and he didn’t catch himself. I saw it live, and I actually rewound it and video'd it so I would know exactly what he said. But, you're saying that he said he caught himself? Where is he saying that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 44 minutes ago, bbb said: I saw it live, and I actually rewound it and video'd it so I would know exactly what he said. But, you're saying that he said he caught himself? Where is he saying that? No, I’m saying he didn’t catch himself. The anchor he was talking to tried to help him out to clarify and he was just oblivious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, Virgil said: No, I’m saying he didn’t catch himself. The anchor he was talking to tried to help him out to clarify and he was just oblivious I just watched my video and I had cut it off before the anchor talked again, and I don't remember what he said...........The reporter definitely didn't cut himself off, but he did say "all four children are believed to be onboard" - I guess if there's any wiggle room, it's the "believed" part - but you don't report that type of thing unless you know! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 On 1/27/2020 at 12:38 PM, Chef Jim said: And again so cute. 57 miles from Calabassas to Disneyland in an hour??? You've never been down here have you? Not that the traffic is great up there but I did get a ticket for doing 85 in a 65 (after hitting my brakes while doing 90) at 5pm on a FRIDAY on the 101 just north of SFO. And seeing I've lived in both SoCal and NorCal the Northerners win the annoying trophy...by far. Please do not lump me in with that crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 I’m still in shock. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I understand. Three little girls as I understand it, though.https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-01-27/kobe-bryant-helicopter-crash-victims That's one thing that bothers me about the coverage of the crash. Obviously, Kobe was a Star of Stars and his daughter known on social media. But there were three young girls on that chopper, both parents of one of them, and two other wives. Yep....”and 7 others” just does not feel adequate every time I hear it. I fully realize this story gets a fraction of the attention if not for a celebrity and his daughter on board, but those families are grieving at 100% the rate of the Bryants. It’s totally devastating for everyone involved. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 6 hours ago, Mark Vader said: Please do not lump me in with that crowd. Oh hell no dude. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 For you ‘Chopper Heads’. A likely path and elevation of the flight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 More on the crash from a professional pilot familiar with the area, terrain and NTSB/FAA regs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 On 1/30/2020 at 3:03 AM, sherpa said: As this investigation proceeds, watch for two things. First, nobody operates these type helos under FAA Part 135, (charters), with only one pilot. Second, watch for NTSB comments about the number of passengers. In addition, there is a disparity between what Kobe paid for this helicopter and the market value of similar make/model helos. That disparity usually means something. I understand what you're saying about Part 135 Ops. On the East coast, if one looks up S75 charters, all that I found specify IFR/VFR and 2 pilots. The PIC was the Chief Pilot for this Part 135 operator. In an interview with another pilot, Kurt Deetz, who said he was employed by the company and previously flew Kobe, he referenced "pilot" singular with regard to his flights. Evidently, this operator's Part 135 certificate did, in fact, allow them to operate Sikorsky S75 helicopters single pilot, but in VFR conditions only (although the craft was equipped, and the pilot rated, for instrument flight). The implication was that is common for helicopter operators in the LA area to operate VFR only. If correct, this is significant because the pilot lacks the option to legally enter the IFR system. I'm not sure how the number of passengers and price paid for the helicopter might be causal or contribute to the accident. It's certificated for 14 passengers so 8 should not represent an excessive load, even if the seating configuration was for 7. That would be illegal if so, but not unsafe especially since 3 of the pax were fit young teen girls. I guess if the configuration was 7 seats and the pilot loaded 8 pax, that might be taken by the FAA to show a pattern of "pushing legality", but it seems likely incidental to the accident. As we (sorry! got my t-shirt!) know, the sale price of an aircraft reflects the total time on the airframe, the time since overhaul on the engines, the avionics suite, and the fittings. Per report, this helicopter was used to transport the IL governor and was reportedly high end on fittings and avionics. It was reported to have flown 4000 hrs at the time of sale. The TBO (time between overhaul) on the Pratt and Whitney turbos is 4000 hrs. Thus it was likely sold at a low price because the engines needed overhaul; if they were properly overhauled after sale, Nothing to See Here in the price. If they weren't overhauled, something to see only if a mechanical failure is determined to have taken place - though again, that would be taken to show a pattern of "pushing it". If it lacked an autopilot, or if the autopilot was not in good repair, that could be contributory I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 hours ago, Chandler#81 said: For you ‘Chopper Heads’. A likely path and elevation of the flight. 2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said: More on the crash from a professional pilot familiar with the area, terrain and NTSB/FAA regs. These seem very well done, @Chandler#81, good finds. Sweet Luscombe in the background of the 2nd. Some comments: The flight path visualization makes it clear that the pilot was leaving flatter ground and entering an area of hills where the microclimate was likely to be different, and the distance between clouds and ground decreased as he flew through a pass. This is a classic scenario for VFR (visual flight rules) flight into IMC (instrument meteorological conditions). ? At this point, if he turns around and went back to Van Nuys, it's all good. It appears that the pilot achieved an altitude higher than the terrain in stable flight, so an accident cause involving "pushing the flight envelope to reach safety" appears unlikely. I suppose I wanted to believe that because I don't want to believe the cause this is shaping up to point towards. The helicopter was equipped with an autopilot. If the autopilot is already configured correctly, one strategy taught to GA pilots facing disorientation is to flip a switch and hand control over to "Otto" while they get their bearings. I do not know how feasible that is in a helicopter. About the most dangerous place for a pilot, any pilot, to be, is in a situation where he does not know what he doesn't know - for example, where he does not know that his current ability to operate the aircraft by reference to instruments is insufficient. Nits: at one point refers to "special VFR" as a "little known" or "lesser known" option. As previously discussed, it's common for helicopter operations transitioning controlled airspace under weather conditions that are otherwise legal for them, as well as common in some sectors of GA (Part 91) flight. Also 2nd clip suggests perhaps the pilot was trying to reach a Sheriff's helipad, but from his diagram it looks as though the helipad would be in the opposite direction from that taken by the flight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 any announcements on a memorial service yet? i hope they aren't planning to have him lie In State like Lenin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Wow, they are putting a Kobe Jersey on every seat at tonights game for those in attendance. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2874036-lakers-to-honor-kobe-bryant-with-nos-8-24-t-shirts-for-fans-vs-blazers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 hours ago, row_33 said: any announcements on a memorial service yet? i hope they aren't planning to have him lie In State like Lenin. I have several contacts inside, both Spectrum who works closely with the Lakers because of the exclusive broadcast deal here in LA and with the Lakers PR team (I am also friends with Jeanie Buss herself). Now I have not spoken to Jeanie since this happened, although I did reach out and express my condolences. But my friends in PR at both Spectrum and Lakers said on Tuesday the target was 2 weeks and they want to do it at Staples Center but they fear its not big enough. So they are also considering the Coliseum and the Rose Bowl. Also, wasn't confirmed yet, but one of them told me there may be 2 services...the big one and then a private one for immediate friends and family only. Ironically, Jeanie Buss is about to become my neighbor. I introduced her to a neighbor who was selling their beach front condo and she bought it. So she is about to live 100 yards from me down the beach. She is SUPER sweet and just soooooooo nice. If you did not know who she was, you would think she's just a nice lady who makes a modest salary...she is so down to Earth and you would never know how much money she has and she is an owner of a massive sports franchise. Super excited for her to be moving right there. Sadly for her, she will have one psycho neighbor 2 doors down, which is Anthony Michael Hall who is a total a**hole who is basically hated by everyone. He has been arrested multiple times for going off the rails here, including pushing my friend down and breaking his arm which was on TMZ too lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I have several contacts inside, both Spectrum who works closely with the Lakers because of the exclusive broadcast deal here in LA and with the Lakers PR team (I am also friends with Jeanie Buss herself). Now I have not spoken to Jeanie since this happened, although I did reach out and express my condolences. But my friends in PR at both Spectrum and Lakers said on Tuesday the target was 2 weeks and they want to do it at Staples Center but they fear its not big enough. So they are also considering the Coliseum and the Rose Bowl. Also, wasn't confirmed yet, but one of them told me there may be 2 services...the big one and then a private one for immediate friends and family only. Ironically, Jeanie Buss is about to become my neighbor. I introduced her to a neighbor who was selling their beach front condo and she bought it. So she is about to live 100 yards from me down the beach. She is SUPER sweet and just soooooooo nice. If you did not know who she was, you would think she's just a nice lady who makes a modest salary...she is so down to Earth and you would never know how much money she has and she is an owner of a massive sports franchise. Super excited for her to be moving right there. Sadly for her, she will have one psycho neighbor 2 doors down, which is Anthony Michael Hall who is a total a**hole who is basically hated by everyone. He has been arrested multiple times for going off the rails here, including pushing my friend down and breaking his arm which was on TMZ too lol. post of the day, easily I saw the Rose Bowl was under consideration earlier this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Whoa, Lids is offering free Kobe embroidering on any hat, dont even have to buy one can just bring one in, in honor of Kobes passing! Pretty cool https://www.complex.com/style/2020/01/lids-free-custom-kobe-bryant-hat-embroidery 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 8:49 PM, YoloinOhio said: Kobe death is sad enough. Every time I see that little girl’s face though it’s Kobe's legacy and inspirational life will live on forever. Not just in LA. Tonight should be very special and therapeutic for a grieving city. Mamba Forever....GirlDad forever..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 ....nice to see Shaq is donating proceeds from his SB Party to Bryant Foundation and other victims.......hate reading more stories about this tragedy, but it is sounding more and more like pilot error..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 NTSB preliminary accident report released. First link is New York Times article. Second link is .pdf file with pictures referenced in article https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/07/us/kobe-bryant-ntsb-report.html https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6771-ntsb-report-kobe-bryant-helicopter/aaacf7d3b80c17083a22/optimized/full.pdf#page=1 key points: -engines operating and rotors turning at time of impact -photographs speak for themselves about weather conditions near the accident site at the time of the crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: NTSB preliminary accident report released. First link is New York Times article. Second link is .pdf file with pictures referenced in article https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/07/us/kobe-bryant-ntsb-report.html https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6771-ntsb-report-kobe-bryant-helicopter/aaacf7d3b80c17083a22/optimized/full.pdf#page=1 key points: -engines operating and rotors turning at time of impact -photographs speak for themselves about weather conditions near the accident site at the time of the crash ...it is just terribly sad that reports points more so to pilot error and judgment in declining weather conditions.....you just cannot shortcut safety in the purported interest of expediency.....NOT to derail the thread, but we are construction contractors......our external Safety Consultant shared a personal story about the day HE decided to shortcut safety, with SAFETY being his life's blood.....he was in a hurry to trim his yard with a string trimmer before other commitments and decided to forego his safety glasses (don't we all?)....while trimming, a stone was kicked up, hitting him on the inside bridge of his nose, perhaps a 1/4 inch from losing an eye....could he have PHYSICALLY survived the life altering event of losing an eye?...perhaps...mentally?....I can't answer that......but he learned his lesson about short cutting safety.....certainly hope shortcutting was NOT the case in the Kobe tragedy.... Edited February 8, 2020 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Reportedly 12 seconds from clear skies. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...it is just terribly sad that reports points more so to pilot error and judgment in declining weather conditions.....you just cannot shortcut safety in the purported interest of expediency.....NOT to derail the thread, but we are construction contractors......our external Safety Consultant shared a personal story about the day HE decided to shortcut safety, with SAFETY being his life's blood.....he was in a hurry to trim his yard with a string trimmer before other commitments and decided to forego his safety glasses (don't we all?)....while trimming, a stone was kicked up, hitting him on the inside bridge of his nose, perhaps a 1/4 inch from losing an eye....could he have PHYSICALLY survived the life altering event of losing an eye?...perhaps...mentally?....I can't answer that......but he learned his lesson about short cutting safety.....certainly hope shortcutting was NOT the case in the Kobe tragedy.... I had a flight instructor who liked to say "the most dangerous thing for a pilot is not knowing what they don't know". Which I didn't understand for a while, then I slowly figured out what he meant as I gained experience. There's also a difference between legal, and safe. Most operations are both. Some things that are legal, are arguably unsafe. Some things that are arguably safe, aren't legal. But they need to be scrutinized hard with a skeptical eye (or just don't). The helicopter was equipped (as many aren't) for flight controlled by instruments. It had a sophisticated autopilot. The helicopter pilot was rated (as many aren't) to fly a helicopter on instruments. It appears that the pilot was doing something that wasn't legal: he was operating on a VFR-only charter certificate and continued into conditions where he was not able to remain clear of clouds. He had the equipment, and had trained to acquire the skill that should have made it safe for a pilot that was proficient on instruments. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 42 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It had a sophisticated autopilot. As sophisticates as this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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