John from Riverside Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 I refuse to give any credit to a supposed scouting site that hates on our quarterback ($*$&*% PFF 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, NoSaint said: Out of curiosity, do we know where he landed in their rankings? is the argument 6 vs 3 or is it 14 vs 3? PFF makes you pay (lol) to see their rankings. I saw a post on Twitter that said he was ranked 13th a couple weeks ago. A more recent post says 15th. So somewhere outside the top 10 which is ridiculous. He and Gilmore are the only 2 starting CBs I can find that allowed a passer rating below 50 for the season. EDIT: I found a few other posts that say he's ranked 15th as of the end of the season, so that appears to be definitive. Edited January 1, 2020 by HappyDays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said: Who were your obvious snubs besides Tre White? Let me go one step further. Who, besides Tre, on the Bills defense has a CASE for an All Pro selection by the AP this year? Jordan Phillips is clearly the other guy on the Bills defense that deserves consideration. He has made some absolutely game changing plays this year and his stats are very similar to Aaron Donald's while playing nearly 25% less snaps. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasovon Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 McDermott must be their coach of the year winning so many games with so little talent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 White is an all-pro talent no doubt. He is as good as anyone in the NFL right now. But I think he is a notch below the truly great ones like Seahawks version of Sherman and Revis. Maybe that is scheme and maybe it is White. I hope McD puts White on Hopkins the entire game. Hopkins demands a double team all game. It would be no secret that White is on him man to man but the rest of the defense can still be disguised play to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiserplayer Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 PFF is tied with Walter football for top places to never look concerning football. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Luka said: Jordan Phillips is clearly the other guy on the Bills defense that deserves consideration. He has made some absolutely game changing plays this year and his stats are very similar to Aaron Donald's while playing nearly 25% less snaps. Deserves consideration yes I agree. I still don't think he is a dominant force, and not worthy of top DT money. Many of his plays are hustle plays which is great. But I don't think he straight up beats his man most of the time. He is a very good DT. All thing being equal he should get paid around 15th best DT money. But he will ask for more and some team will probably pay him more like top 10 money. Too much cap room around the league. Maybe it will be Buffalo but with H.Phillips coming back and Oliver I bet they let J.Phillips walk. I'd prefer they cut Star, tag Phillips so they don't have to commit long term and draft 4 more front 7 players( Two OLB, Edge, and 1 technique DT). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, Luka said: Jordan Phillips is clearly the other guy on the Bills defense that deserves consideration. He has made some absolutely game changing plays this year and his stats are very similar to Aaron Donald's while playing nearly 25% less snaps. They actually aren’t all that similar outside of sacks. Aaron Donald QB hits - 24 Jordan Phillips QB hits - 16 Donald sacks - 13.5 Phillips sacks - 9.5 AD TFLs - 20 JP TFLs - 13 Not really “very similar” at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 17 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Who were your obvious snubs besides Tre White? Let me go one step further. Who, besides Tre, on the Bills defense has a CASE for an All Pro selection by the AP this year? I strongly believe Micah Hyde is one of the best safeties in the league. He runs that defense out there. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: They actually aren’t all that similar outside of sacks. Aaron Donald QB hits - 24 Jordan Phillips QB hits - 16 Donald sacks - 13.5 Phillips sacks - 9.5 AD TFLs - 20 JP TFLs - 13 Not really “very similar” at all. Aaron Donald 76% of snaps, Phillips 57% snaps. Of course you left that out though lol 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 I’m glad someone included the tweets where the PFF employee attempted to explaining Tre White’s season. When looking at some of their rankings the first thought is whatever parameters they are using aren’t working and that these guys are dip sticks. When you read his round about explanation of Tre and it ends at TJ Carrie then you have all the proof you need. These guys are certainly dip sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 19 minutes ago, HappyDays said: PFF makes you pay (lol) to see their rankings. I saw a post on Twitter that said he was ranked 13th a couple weeks ago. A more recent post says 15th. So somewhere outside the top 10 which is ridiculous. He and Gilmore are the only 2 starting CBs I can find that allowed a passer rating below 50 for the season. EDIT: I found a few other posts that say he's ranked 15th as of the end of the season, so that appears to be definitive. Any site that grades White as the 15th best CB in the league is useless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Just now, Luka said: Aaron Donald 76% of snaps, Phillips 57% snaps. Of course you left that out though lol Is that supposed to help your argument? That he doesn’t get on the field as much? It’s an award based on the players’ performance on the field. Not being on the field HARMS their argument. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalophil1948 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 hour ago, MJS said: They said White gave up over 500 yards? There's no way. That's just over 30 yds a game. I'm ok with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stosh64 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 I always appreciate the time I am saved from clicking when the OP puts PFF in the thread title. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 It is also completely hilarious that Shaq Barrett didn’t even make their second team. 19.5 sacks, 37 qb hits, 6 forced fumbles, and a pick. He was utterly dominant. 4 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Is that supposed to help your argument? That he doesn’t get on the field as much? It’s an award based on the players’ performance on the field. Not being on the field HARMS their argument. I definitely agree with you about this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Just now, stosh64 said: I always appreciate the time I am saved from clicking when the OP puts PFF in the thread title. You mean except that you did, and then spent twice as much by typing that you did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 hour ago, dave mcbride said: He also says that there were 21 plays in which he was beat and the qb didn’t connect, but doesn’t mention that the Bills played 5 games in absolutely dreadful conditions for qbs (4 with 20+ mph winds) that will change how a defense approaches its pass D. Using inverse logic, Josh Allen should be first team all-pro, because I'm sure that he leads the league in plays where the WR had the CB beat, but the QB didn't connect. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 The problem with PFF is that it’s all opinion based. It’s one thing if coaches are assigning grades or creating a formula to give their players a score. That makes a little more sense since they know exactly what the call and player responsibility should be. But the PFF are simply guessing. I’m sure that they have spent a lot of time learning the game but, again, people take their ratings as though they are “god” when it’s not the case. The other thing that gets me are the made up statistics like “interceptable passes” or near QB-WR connections. These stars are totally useless. In their defense, the other data that PFF produces is quite good. For instance success rate on 4th down etc. I think these analytics can be helpful for game management. I’ll give them a pass therr. The rest of their info like grades are largely speculatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: It is also completely hilarious that Shaq Barrett didn’t even make their second team. 19.5 sacks, 37 qb hits, 6 forced fumbles, and a pick. He was utterly dominant. I definitely agree with you about this. On Shaq Barrett.... One time Adrian Clayborn had 6 sacks in a single game against a sixth string LT. So we aren’t saying he deserved all six but probably that 3 of them were legit. 3x16= 48. Barrett isn’t even half of the player as Clayborn. We have him listed as 240th ranked pass rusher. Yada yada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Other PFF gems. going into last years draft after signing Kevin Johnson and EJ Gaines (with Levi Wallace returning) and Ed Oliver still on their board when we picked, they said we should pick CB Byron Murphy!!!! this year I checked their first mock draft and they Siam we really need to go CB!!!! i dont know if they aren’t paying attention or don’t know what they’re doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemma Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Next up on PFF's list of proofs: The earth is flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 10 minutes ago, Buffalophil1948 said: That's just over 30 yds a game. I'm ok with that According to Pro Football Reference he gave up 626 yards, about 42 YPG. That is actually really good considering he is always going against the #1 WR and he plays every snap. He was only targeted 6 times per game on average, that alone should tell you what teams think of him. He intercepted 15% of his targets and allowed 0 TDs. With all of the above statistics readily available to anyone that wants to look, PFF rates him as merely an average #1 CB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, HappyDays said: According to Pro Football Reference he gave up 626 yards, about 42 YPG. That is actually really good considering he is always going against the #1 WR and he plays every snap. He was only targeted 6 times per game on average, that alone should tell you what teams think of him. He intercepted 15% of his targets and allowed 0 TDs. With all of the above statistics readily available to anyone that wants to look, PFF rates him as merely an average #1 CB. its laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 What this goes to show is team defense makes the whole much greater than the sum of its parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: In their defense, the other data that PFF produces is quite good. For instance success rate on 4th down etc. I think these analytics can be helpful for game management. I’ll give them a pass therr. I agree 100%. Their objective data is really good and probably worth paying for if you have a job in NFL media. They track certain advanced stats that you can't find anywhere else. As for their subjective player grades, as far as I know they are compiled by interns that graduate from their online training program. Here's what I mean: https://www.pff.com/news/get-involved If you love football, have some extra time on your hands, and want to be involved with a group of people whose paramount objective is to drive knowledge of football to new levels and have fun doing it, then you certainly should apply. If you are simply interested in earning some extra cash, I think you’ll find you won’t fit in. In working for PFF you will contribute to the analysis and statistics that make PFF so unique. Every person from CEO to newest member of the team has started off working on the collation of player participation data that can take upwards of 20 hours per game to collect initially and, although this does reduce considerably with experience, it is not for the faint of heart. Producing this data improves your knowledge of the game and put you in a position to represent the PFF brand through written content, etc. In return, Pro Football Focus offers training, an opportunity for you to develop your own profile on a highly regarded media platform... This is not a full time position and there are no guarantees it will ever lead to one. You will be required to produce work during the regular season to a deadline, but at your own convenience. While we do pay for high quality work, if you are doing this purely for financial reward, the position is not for you. So, nothing against the underpaid interns that spend 20+ hours a week compiling their player grades, but there is no reason to blindly trust what they say. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pfffttt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 43 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: They actually aren’t all that similar outside of sacks. Aaron Donald QB hits - 24 Jordan Phillips QB hits - 16 Donald sacks - 13.5 Phillips sacks - 9.5 AD TFLs - 20 JP TFLs - 13 Not really “very similar” at all. You're right. On a per snap basis Phillips is way ahead of Donald. AD snap count: 926 JP snap count: 543 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said: You're right. On a per snap basis Phillips is way ahead of Donald. AD snap count: 926 JP snap count: 543 And that doesn’t matter. There’s someone out out there right now who is averaging a sack every ten snaps because they haven’t played that much this season. That person isn’t an All-Pro either. 29 minutes ago, HappyDays said: According to Pro Football Reference he gave up 626 yards, about 42 YPG. That is actually really good considering he is always going against the #1 WR and he plays every snap. He was only targeted 6 times per game on average, that alone should tell you what teams think of him. He intercepted 15% of his targets and allowed 0 TDs. With all of the above statistics readily available to anyone that wants to look, PFF rates him as merely an average #1 CB. Wait what? Targeted 6x per game and 42 YPG allowed so he allowed 7 yards per target? How does that rank with other #1 CB’s (who also go up against #1 WRs all the time)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: And that doesn’t matter. There’s someone out out there right now who is averaging a sack every ten snaps because they haven’t played that much this season. That person isn’t an All-Pro either. There is? Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said: And that doesn’t matter. There’s someone out out there right now who is averaging a sack every ten snaps because they haven’t played that much this season. That person isn’t an All-Pro either. I hesitate to say that is stupid but that is stupid. 543 snaps is playing a lot for a DT and you know it. It's not at all a one in ten snap example. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Just now, Kelly the Dog said: I hesitate to say that is stupid but that is stupid. 543 snaps is playing a lot for a DT and you know it. It's not at all a one in ten snap example. Awe man. I wanted to find out who first so that I could find out its some dude that has 30 snaps on the year and has 3 sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Scott7975 said: Awe man. I wanted to find out who first so that I could find out its some dude that has 30 snaps on the year and has 3 sacks. If they would just play the guy more, like as many as Donald, he could have, like, 90 sacks this year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: I hesitate to say that is stupid but that is stupid. 543 snaps is playing a lot for a DT and you know it. It's not at all a one in ten snap example. But the point remains. It doesn’t matter if you have lesser production because you played less snaps. Sacks per snap, or yards per snap, or catches per snap are not and never have been the criterion for individual awards. If a WR only plays 10 games, puts up 1000 yards and 8 TD’s, and another WR plays 16 games, puts up 1400 yards and 11 TD’s, WR #2 will be the one who has a better case for a WR award, regardless of “less production per snap.” That’s just how it is. Edited January 1, 2020 by BringBackOrton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 For as much as we supposedly hate PFF we sure do love giving them traffic to their page 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: But the point remains. It doesn’t matter if you have lesser production because you played less snaps. Sacks per snap, or yards per snap, or catches per snap are not and never have been the criterion for individual awards. If a WR only plays 10 games, puts up 1000 yards and 8 TD’s, and another WR plays 16 games, puts up 1400 yards and 11 TD’s, WR #2 will be the one who has a better case for a WR award, regardless of “less production per snap.” That’s just how it is. I have a great idea! Make that your response. Not a guy with 30 snaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Targeted 6x per game and 42 YPG allowed so he allowed 7 yards per target? How does that rank with other #1 CB’s (who also go up against #1 WRs all the time)? Yeah he allowed 6.9 yards per target this year. I'll again just go with the 4 CBs PFF selected as their all pros: Stephon Gilmore: 5.8 yards per target Richard Sherman: 5.5 yards per target Casey Hayward: 8.2 yards per target Quinton Dunbar: 6.8 yards per target If the argument was over White being #4 or #6, whatever. But they've ranked him #15. It's indefensible. He's allowing the 2nd lowest passer rating in the league (at least I think so, I can't find a comprehensive list). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Yeah he allowed 6.9 yards per target this year. I'll again just go with the 4 CBs PFF selected as their all pros: Stephon Gilmore: 5.8 yards per target Richard Sherman: 5.5 yards per target Casey Hayward: 8.2 yards per target Quinton Dunbar: 6.8 yards per target If the argument was over White being #4 or #6, whatever. But they've ranked him #15. It's indefensible. He's allowing the 2nd lowest passer rating in the league (at least I think so, I can't find a comprehensive list). Did they rank him 15th this week or before? The writer dude said “fell just short.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said: Did they rank him 15th this week or before? The writer dude said “fell just short.” I don't know why he said he fell "just short." He is their #15 CB on the season. I finally found a credible post that confirms this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Why are there so many Buccaneers on the list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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