NFL Black Monday - Coaching Changes

[MJS]

12 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Apparently Browns are trying to pry Roman away from Ravens...this would be so damn interesting I can't even

Come on. Finish your sentence. Can't even what?

4 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said:

It is just semantics I guess but technically Garrett was not fired.  His contract expires this month so they simply will not renew. 

I wonder how often that actually happens. Usually coaches are fired mid contract. Interesting.

[MJS]

2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I guess he did some good things with Alex Smith, But got further with Kaep obviously. 
 

Gore fit his scheme like a glove 

Alex Smith was pretty mobile, actually.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

Alex Smith was pretty mobile, actually.

Sure mobile. Lamar and Kaepernick are running QBs though; 12 yards a game, vs 30-50 yards per game. 
 

massive difference imo 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[mannc]

7 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said:

It is just semantics I guess but technically Garrett was not fired.  His contract expires this month so they simply will not renew. 

Good point, and not just semantics.

[Chaos]

15 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

That would be great, to see Lamar Mania come crashing down.

 

Lamar mania will be over by the end of the 2020 season, with or without Roman.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28412867/cowboys-move-jason-garrett-source-says

 

Black Thursday 

 

Jason Garrett's time with the Dallas Cowboys is coming to an end.

 

A source told ESPN's Ed Werder that after showing an "abundance of care and respect" for Garrett, team owner/general manager Jerry Jones and executive vice president Stephen Jones have decided the coach will not be part of the organization moving forward.

According to multiple sources, the Joneses and Garrett did not have their scheduled meeting at The Star on Thursday after meeting on Monday and Tuesday without any resolution on the coach's status. Garrett's contract is set to expire on Jan. 14 and his status with the team has been uncertain since last February, when the Cowboys opted not to offer him an extension.

[Mr. WEO]

15 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Not if they lose Roman.

 

Yeah because all ,they are left with are all those Pro Bowlers and the NFL MVP.  No other OC could ever figure out how to use Jackson like only Roman could.

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Jerry got what he wanted.  

 

He dragged this out all Wild Card week to show how "important" his team is.  His team leads the news everyday.  Adds to the brand.  

 

If any other GM loaded up his team with that many Pro Bowlers, local fans would name their babies after him.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

No other OC could ever figure out how to use Jackson like only Roman could.

Give them a quarter, and Lamar’s mother’s phone number.  ?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

45 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Yeah because all ,they are left with are all those Pro Bowlers and the NFL MVP.  No other OC could ever figure out how to use Jackson like only Roman could.

 

38 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

If any other GM loaded up his team with that many Pro Bowlers, local fans would name their babies after him.

 

all I have to say is - what a crock, (since most Pro Bowl selections are a joke)

 

47 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Yeah because all ,they are left with are all those Pro Bowlers and the NFL MVP.  No other OC could ever figure out how to use Jackson like only Roman could.

 

Maybe if RGIII had Roman as HC or OC...... 

[BuffaloSol]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

If any other GM loaded up his team with that many Pro Bowlers, local fans would name their babies after him.

Pro Bowl is a joke and most real fans know this. LOL "Let's name our babies after a guy that had a lot of players win a popularity contest."

 

[Mr. WEO]

32 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

 

all I have to say is - what a crock, (since most Pro Bowl selections are a joke)

 

 

Maybe if RGIII had Roman as HC or OC...... 

 

If Beane put 15 Pro Bowlers on this roster you would canonize him.

 

RG3 is long recovered from his knee injury.  He is a flash in the pan.  A proper backup is all he was going to be.

[billsfan1959]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Yeah because all ,they are left with are all those Pro Bowlers and the NFL MVP.  No other OC could ever figure out how to use Jackson like only Roman could.

 

I have no doubt that they can continue to design their offense around Jackson; however, don't think for a second that much of what Baltimore has done this year wasn't a product of Roman's abilities as an offensive coordinator - and Jackson having a career year in TD%, which, as I posted elsewhere isn't the first time. Alex Smith, Colin Kaepernick, and Tyrod Taylor all had their best year in TD% under Roman. I have no idea how he would be as a head coach; but, as an OC, he is extremely talented.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, BuffaloSol said:

Pro Bowl is a joke and most real fans know this. LOL "Let's name our babies after a guy that had a lot of players win a popularity contest."

 

 

It's such a joke that every year on this site, thread after thread is posted about who on the Bills might make and, after they are announced, who got snubbed.

 

So you have concluded that the Cowboys do NOT have a roster loaded with talent--particularly on Offense? 

[BuffaloSol]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Yeah because all ,they are left with are all those Pro Bowlers and the NFL MVP.  No other OC could ever figure out how to use Jackson like only Roman could.

Yeah it is really easy for others to do it, Mornhinweg really did well last year with Lamar, Kapernick did great when Roman left, & Tyrod didn't regress at all when he left..... Oh wait?

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, BuffaloSol said:

Yeah it is really easy for others to do it, Mornhinweg really did well last year with Lamar, Kapernick did great when Roman left, & Tyrod didn't regress at all when he left..... Oh wait?

 

So you are saying that Roman's playcalling for Jackson is so mysterious and so complex that no other OC could copy the same scheme in Baltimore?

 

The combo of Mornhinweg and Jackson went 6-1 last year (after a 4-5 start with Flacco).   That includes nearly 700 yards rushing and 5 rushing TDs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[billsfan1959]

17 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

I like Lamar, and I don’t want to see his star fade.

 

That said, I’m concerned for him if Roman goes. He runs a pretty unique scheme and it works for them. It would be unfortunate for Lamar if a new OC comes in and tries to change things too much.

 

 

I think Lamar is very talented and fortunate to have Roman as his OC. He truly is having an MVP caliber year - and one he is not likely to reproduce with or without Roman. However, I think he is better with Roma than without him.

 

I have always been a fan of Roman and, to be honest, I would be interested to see what he could to as a head coach. If he ever gets his chance, and is successful, I prefer it be with a team other than the Browns.

[billsfan1959]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

So you are saying that Roman's playcalling for Jackson is so mysterious and so complex that no other OC could copy the same scheme in Baltimore?

 

The combo of Mornhinweg and Jackson went 6-1 last year (after a 4-5 start with Flacco).   That includes nearly 700 yards rushing and 5 rushing TDs.

 

 

Record aside, what Mornhinweg did with Jackson doesn't come close to what Roman has done with Jackson. It is not only a design to maximize his running skills - he is a much better passer under Roman's schemes. Jackson and the Ravens can be successful under another OC; however, I don't think anyone would get the most out Jackson's unique set of skills more than Roman.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, billsfan1959 said:

 

Record aside, what Mornhinweg did with Jackson doesn't come close to what Roman has done with Jackson. It is not only a design to maximize his running skills - he is a much better passer under Roman's schemes. Jackson and the Ravens can be successful under another OC; however, I don't think anyone would get the most out Jackson's unique set of skills more than Roman.

 

Jackson was a rookie coming off the bench.  He wasn't asked to pass much therefore

 

I think it is as equally as likely that we are seeing Jackson as he was in Louisville....Morrhnenwig or Roman. 

 

I just can't figure out what Jackson, as he is playing now, would no longer be able to do without Roman.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

28 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

If Beane put 15 Pro Bowlers on this roster you would canonize him.

 

RG3 is long recovered from his knee injury.  He is a flash in the pan.  A proper backup is all he was going to be.

 

No, not really.    Tre White Deserves his earned spot.  Was it Beane who brought him in?

 

I'd be giddy but I know the truth of it.  It has been a popularity contest for a very long time.  When a teams gets too much publicity the lemmings join in lock step and vote for them.

It's not always about talent when a team has more than 5 players chosen. 

 

 

[billsfan1959]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Jackson was a rookie coming off the bench.  He wasn't asked to pass much therefore

 

I think it is as equally as likely that we are seeing Jackson as he was in Louisville....Morrhnenwig or Roman. 

 

I just can't figure out what Jackson, as he is playing now, would no longer be able to do without Roman.

 

I guess we won't know until it happens. However, I think, with or without Roman, we are not likely to see a repeat of what Jackson did this year in terms of passing touchdown production.; which, IMHO, is the difference between having a pretty good year and having an MVP caliber year.

[BuffaloSol]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Jackson was a rookie coming off the bench.  He wasn't asked to pass much therefore

 

I think it is as equally as likely that we are seeing Jackson as he was in Louisville....Morrhnenwig or Roman. 

 

I just can't figure out what Jackson, as he is playing now, would no longer be able to do without Roman.

*See Tyrod and Kapernick dropoff when Roman left, pretty simple if you don't try to ignore it. 

[Gugny]

2 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28412867/cowboys-move-jason-garrett-source-says

 

Black Thursday 

 

Jason Garrett's time with the Dallas Cowboys is coming to an end.

 

A source told ESPN's Ed Werder that after showing an "abundance of care and respect" for Garrett, team owner/general manager Jerry Jones and executive vice president Stephen Jones have decided the coach will not be part of the organization moving forward.

According to multiple sources, the Joneses and Garrett did not have their scheduled meeting at The Star on Thursday after meeting on Monday and Tuesday without any resolution on the coach's status. Garrett's contract is set to expire on Jan. 14 and his status with the team has been uncertain since last February, when the Cowboys opted not to offer him an extension.

 

 

 

[colin]

i think roman might be pretty epic on clevland.  i'm sure he'd have some better OL brought in (maybe trade ODB for one, i dunno) and with the backs they have, he'd be able to scheme some pretty impossible to defend stuff.

 

it wouldn't be what they do in baltimore, but i could see it being more pass heavy with heavy formations and just huge run production from those two backs.

 

the browns really do have insane skill talent.  could you imagine one of those backs on buffalo and ODB here too?  we'd prolly get an extra 70 yards and 5 points a game.

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Yeah because all ,they are left with are all those Pro Bowlers and the NFL MVP.  No other OC could ever figure out how to use Jackson like only Roman could.

Correct 

[BillsFan4]

9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I wonder if he’d come after Dorsey 

I’d be surprised, unless Dorsey is will to put a LOT more weight on character than he ever has before. 

 

Rivera is just like McDermott in wanting character to be the #1 priority. He wants good, high character people, first and foremost.

[BuffaloSol]

19 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

I’d be surprised, unless Dorsey is will to put a LOT more weight on character than he ever has before. 

 

Rivera is just like McDermott in wanting character to be the #1 priority. He wants good, high character people, first and foremost.

Yeah Dorsey is a pretty good at scout/talent evaluation, really good at spending money, and really bad helping build culture. Just like some guys should stay as asst coaches some guys should stay in the scouting department. 

[BringBackFergy]

45 minutes ago, colin said:

i think roman might be pretty epic on clevland.  i'm sure he'd have some better OL brought in (maybe trade ODB for one, i dunno) and with the backs they have, he'd be able to scheme some pretty impossible to defend stuff.

 

it wouldn't be what they do in baltimore, but i could see it being more pass heavy with heavy formations and just huge run production from those two backs.

 

the browns really do have insane skill talent.  could you imagine one of those backs on buffalo and ODB here too?  we'd prolly get an extra 70 yards and 5 points a game.

Who the hell is ODB??

[LeviF]

1 minute ago, BringBackFergy said:

Who the hell is ODB??

 

RIP ODB

 

[Gugny]

6 minutes ago, LeviF91 said:

 

RIP ODB

 

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

No, not really.    Tre White Deserves his earned spot.  Was it Beane who brought him in?

 

I'd be giddy but I know the truth of it.  It has been a popularity contest for a very long time.  When a teams gets too much publicity the lemmings join in lock step and vote for them.

It's not always about talent when a team has more than 5 players chosen. 

 

 

 

Sure it's a popularity contest.  But it doesn't change the obvious--the Cowboys have a lot of significant talent on that roster.   Jones is the GM.

[Foxx]

Cowboys to move on without Jason Garrett, source says

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, BuffaloSol said:

*See Tyrod and Kapernick dropoff when Roman left, pretty simple if you don't try to ignore it. 

 

In his second and final year with Roman, TT went from 380 attempts to 436 with no change in total yards--dropping his YPA to 6.9 from 8.  His passing TD total went from an anemic 20 to 17.  He was sacked 42 times from 36.  That's not a positive trajectory.  A year later, his decline continued--but it was a modest drop:17 to 14 TDs (1 less start) and 2800 vs 3029 yards.  His rushing yards remained between 425 and 580 and had 4-6-4 rushing TDs.  There's no meaning difference in those years.

 

TT wasn't nearly the athlete or QB JAckosn is--ever in his college or pro career.  That's the obvious fact that you try to ignore.

 

Kaepernick was another mediocre producer his whole career.  His best seasons mimicked Taylor's--a guy who has bounced around the league.  In his 3rd season in the NFL and under Roman, which should have been his best, he threw only 19 TDs against 10 INTs, took a whopping 52 sacks (up from 39) and had 1 rushing TD.  They lost 8 games a year after winning 12.   The went from 11th in scoring to 25th.  That's also not a positive trajectory.

 

He, too, is not nearly as good as Jackson.  So....maybe it's Jackson. 

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

33 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

Who the hell is ODB??

I think that is on McCartney’s shoulder patch on the ‘Sgt. Pepper’s’ album...?

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

I think that is on McCartney’s shoulder patch on the ‘Sgt. Pepper’s’ album...?

 

Play it backwards and you'll hear: "I buried Big Baby Jesus"...

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

26 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

 

Someone hit them both with the ‘Magic Ugly (vacuum) Wand’. Yamahama, it’s fright night!  ?

[BuffaloHokie13]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

In his second and final year with Roman, TT went from 380 attempts to 436 with no change in total yards--dropping his YPA to 6.9 from 8.  His passing TD total went from an anemic 20 to 17.  He was sacked 42 times from 36.  That's not a positive trajectory.  A year later, his decline continued--but it was a modest drop:17 to 14 TDs (1 less start) and 2800 vs 3029 yards.  His rushing yards remained between 425 and 580 and had 4-6-4 rushing TDs.  There's no meaning difference in those years.

 

TT wasn't nearly the athlete or QB JAckosn is--ever in his college or pro career.  That's the obvious fact that you try to ignore.

 

Kaepernick was another mediocre producer his whole career.  His best seasons mimicked Taylor's--a guy who has bounced around the league.  In his 3rd season in the NFL and under Roman, which should have been his best, he threw only 19 TDs against 10 INTs, took a whopping 52 sacks (up from 39) and had 1 rushing TD.  They lost 8 games a year after winning 12.   The went from 11th in scoring to 25th.  That's also not a positive trajectory.

 

He, too, is not nearly as good as Jackson.  So....maybe it's Jackson. 

 

 

Nothing else changed from 15 to 16 to 17, right? Just the QB got worse.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Nothing else changed from 15 to 16 to 17, right? Just the QB got worse.

 

True, but The discussion is that Roman was responsible for TT and Kaepernick's displayed results and play.  The poster pointed to QB stats as proof.  I showed how that wasn't accurate.

[BuffaloHokie13]

15 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

True, but The discussion is that Roman was responsible for TT and Kaepernick's displayed results and play.  The poster pointed to QB stats as proof.  I showed how that wasn't accurate.

I think that if you look at their performance with Roman (and his system) vs with others it's safe to say he enhanced their productivity. Only person I'd have picked for TT above Roman would be Bevell. I also think Bevell would be great for Allen though 

[BuffaloSol]

11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

In his second and final year with Roman, TT went from 380 attempts to 436 with no change in total yards--dropping his YPA to 6.9 from 8.  His passing TD total went from an anemic 20 to 17.  He was sacked 42 times from 36.  That's not a positive trajectory.  A year later, his decline continued--but it was a modest drop:17 to 14 TDs (1 less start) and 2800 vs 3029 yards.  His rushing yards remained between 425 and 580 and had 4-6-4 rushing TDs.  There's no meaning difference in those years.

 

TT wasn't nearly the athlete or QB JAckosn is--ever in his college or pro career.  That's the obvious fact that you try to ignore.

 

Kaepernick was another mediocre producer his whole career.  His best seasons mimicked Taylor's--a guy who has bounced around the league.  In his 3rd season in the NFL and under Roman, which should have been his best, he threw only 19 TDs against 10 INTs, took a whopping 52 sacks (up from 39) and had 1 rushing TD.  They lost 8 games a year after winning 12.   The went from 11th in scoring to 25th.  That's also not a positive trajectory.

 

He, too, is not nearly as good as Jackson.  So....maybe it's Jackson. 

 

 

We can go back and forth on this all day. For instance, I could say Lamar has the third ranked Oline this year (with 5 probowlers? on offense). Kap and Tyrod did not even have a top ten Oline and all but 1 season for Kap they were in the bottom half of the league. Not to mention both Kap and Tyrod were at least serviceable with Roman(kap almost won a superbowl) but, within two years of Roman leaving were no longer NFL starters.