THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - Not There Yet

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

This is all good stuff.   It also supports the argument for Duke Williams.   I mean, the guy isn't the answer to everything, but he would seem to be a better option with respect to the bolded portions.  The Bills get nothing out of McKenzie, Foster or Roberts with respect to the bolded issues.   Williams at least would give the DBs another style of play to worry about.  

 

You're right about Gore.   And you're right about not having enough options use against a good defense.  Even Singletary - defenses have to pay attention to him, but he isn't a true big-play threat.   He complements other players, but he isn't a guy to carry the load.  

 

I agree with you about Duke.  This game might be the game they want to activate him for. 

 

I do feel sorry for the Bills in that all three guys you mentioned that might sit in favor of activating Duke have their uses:

 

*  McKenzie is their gadget guy.  Do they sit him and lose that option?

 

*  Foster is the guy with the speed to scare an opposing defense.  He's also a solid ST player.  The problem is he doesn't go after the ball. 

 

*  Roberts is a danger on KO returns and he's very smooth on punt returns.  If we sat him it would mean McKenzie is our punt returner and I'll have to stock up on Tums as a result.

 

So my pick would be to sit McKenzie and play Duke.  The only caveat is that maybe Duke doesn't play because he struggles with the play book?  That's the type of detail only the coaches know.

 

 

 

[Shaw66]

15 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I agree with you about Duke.  This game might be the game they want to activate him for. 

 

I do feel sorry for the Bills in that all three guys you mentioned that might sit in favor of activating Duke have their uses:

 

*  McKenzie is their gadget guy.  Do they sit him and lose that option?

 

*  Foster is the guy with the speed to scare an opposing defense.  He's also a solid ST player.  The problem is he doesn't go after the ball. 

 

*  Roberts is a danger on KO returns and he's very smooth on punt returns.  If we sat him it would mean McKenzie is our punt returner and I'll have to stock up on Tums as a result.

 

So my pick would be to sit McKenzie and play Duke.  The only caveat is that maybe Duke doesn't play because he struggles with the play book?  That's the type of detail only the coaches know.

 

 

 

I agree about this, too. McKenzie would be the choice to sit.  Foster has shown he can run the jet sweep, although he doesn't have the return skills McKenzie flashes in the jet sweep and the (failed) wide-out screens.   Plus, in a pinch, Brown or Beasley can run the jet-sweep.  

 

We can talk about this forever, and the conclusion is the same:  despite the 2019 upgrades, the receiver room needs better players.  

 

And I share your concern about the playbook.  

 

I never understood why they were so quick to let Robert Woods go.   He'd cure a lot of ills.  

Edited December 9, 2019 by Shaw66

[CincyBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree about this, too. McKenzie would be the choice to sit.  Foster has shown he can run the jet sweep, although he doesn't have the return skills McKenzie flashes in the jet sweep and the (failed) wide-out screens.   Plus, in a pinch, Brown or Beasley can run the jet-sweep.  

 

We can talk about this forever, and the conclusion is the same:  despite the 2019 upgrades, the receiver room needs better players.  

 

And I share your concern about the playbook.  

 

I never understood why they were so quick to let Robert Woods go.   He'd cure a lot of ills.  

 

 

Oh man would he! 

 

On the positive side I watch a lot of college football and this draft is loaded with WR talent.  The Bills should go Rd 2 and maybe Rd 4 or 5 and they could end up getting TWO good WR's.

 

 

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Oh man would he! 

 

On the positive side I watch a lot of college football and this draft is loaded with WR talent.  The Bills should go Rd 2 and maybe Rd 4 or 5 and they could end up getting TWO good WR's.

 

 

Ordinarily, it takes receivers a couple of years to have real impact, but the Bills don't need a huge upgrade.   Someone who is a threat, even if he has flaws, can make the current crew more effective.  A bigger Brown, a quicker Williams.  Someone to add to the mix to divert the defensive attention.  A real stud, of course, would be great, but a good, smart, big, quick guy who isn't a perennial Pro Bowler would make a difference.  

 

It's why I still want to see Williams.   I think it's possible that he'd add a dimension that would attract attention.  For example, if Williams had run Brown's route on Allen's last pass, he wouldn't have been covered any better - it would be impossible to cover him better than Brown was covered.  Williams might have caught that ball.  

 

All the Bills need is someone who is something of a problem.  Brown and Beasley are problems; the other guys are not.  

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

56 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Ordinarily, it takes receivers a couple of years to have real impact, but the Bills don't need a huge upgrade.   Someone who is a threat, even if he has flaws, can make the current crew more effective.  A bigger Brown, a quicker Williams.  Someone to add to the mix to divert the defensive attention.  A real stud, of course, would be great, but a good, smart, big, quick guy who isn't a perennial Pro Bowler would make a difference.  

 

It's why I still want to see Williams.   I think it's possible that he'd add a dimension that would attract attention.  For example, if Williams had run Brown's route on Allen's last pass, he wouldn't have been covered any better - it would be impossible to cover him better than Brown was covered.  Williams might have caught that ball.  

 

All the Bills need is someone who is something of a problem.  Brown and Beasley are problems; the other guys are not.  

 

I think a taller WR esp with the wind yesterday would help. Ravens know coaching staff with the wind problems why they sent the house lots. Daboll kept calling stupid, long passes plays. Screens, slants, curls, crossing route. Those shorter ones esp in windy as it was yesterday would of helped. Ravens knew this and brought the house and Daboll failed to adjusted. 

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

I think a taller WR esp with the wind yesterday would help. Ravens know coaching staff with the wind problems why they sent the house lots. Daboll kept calling stupid, long passes plays. Screens, slants, curls, crossing route. Those shorter ones esp in windy as it was yesterday would of helped. Ravens knew this and brought the house and Daboll failed to adjusted. 

That's interesting and I think an accurate description of what was going on.   Allen has the arm and has shown the accuracy to be able to play that kind of game, provided he can handle the decision making.   Unless I don't really understand, and Allen actually hasn't been able to handle it.  The Bills should have been attacking the field differently, and either didn't try or don't have the players to do it.

 

And on the other side of the ball, Baltimore's offense is built to play that way - everything is quick, short, and they come at you with enough speed that they put you back on your heels.  So the conditions weren't as much of a problem for them.  But the Bills defense is built to adjust to whatever you do on the field, so the Bills were making it very difficult for the Ravens to do what they wanted to do.  The Ravens had as much trouble adjusting their offense to attack the Bills' defense as the Bills had trying to adjust.  It turned out that the Ravens were just a bit better at getting SOMETHING out of their offense against our defense. 

 

Essentially both teams' offenses showed that they have trouble adjusting to good defense.  As we've been discussing, among other things, the Bills could use an upgrade at receiver.  And maybe at offensive coordinator.  

 

I think Daboll will be back next year, unless the Bills go on an amazing run and he starts getting HC inquiries.   McDermott will take the view that everyone in the organization is learning their job, improving at it every year.  McD isn't a finished product at HC - he'll tell you he's learning and improving all the time.   They are so dedicated to that philosophy that everyone DOES get better.  If Daboll was unable to adjust on Sunday, the one thing you can expect is that he will be better at adjusting next season.  They are all learning on the job.  

 

Playing in the wind at New Era is a good example.  Every stadium is different, and the wind is different.  At New Era, it's also inconsistent.   To have a true homefield advantage, you have know and understand the wind and how to play in it, even as it changes from game to game.   As coaches, they come with some general knowledge of how to play in the wind, but the really valuable knowledge, the knowledge that gives you an actual advantage is accumulated over several years.  It's knowledge that the players and the coaches acquire from experience in the games.   Should Daboll have known better how to adjust?   Yeah, probably.   Will he have learned enough to do it better next time?   Yeah, he probably will, because that kind of learning is what McDermott expects. 

[SoCal Deek]

Nice write up Shaw

The biggest thing I noticed is that it looked like the Ravens were playing with 13 men on defense. When they wanted to rush the passer there were multiple  guys in our backfield. When they stuffed runs both outside and inside there were multiple guys there to stuff it. When Allen did get the ball out to our receivers, especially in the flat, once again, there were multiple Ravens there for the gang tackles. Was that all about hustle? Or was our offense so predictable that the Ravens knew what we were calling. Going into the final three weeks the Bills better hope it was hustle! 

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Nice write up Shaw

The biggest thing I noticed is that it looked like the Ravens were playing with 13 men on defense. When they wanted to rush the passer there were multiple  guys in our backfield. When they stuffed runs both outside and inside there were multiple guys there to stuff it. When Allen did get the ball out to our receivers, especially in the flat, once again, there were multiple Ravens there for the gang tackles. Was that all about hustle? Or was our offense so predictable that the Ravens knew what we were calling. Going into the final three weeks the Bills better hope it was hustle! 

I think Ravens fans are saying the same think 

[Nihilarian]

7 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

But I've said it before, and I'll say it again now.  If I'm building a team for the next ten seasons, I'm taking Allen.   He has some growing to do, but he has everything a great QB needs.  Yesterday, however, Allen's inability to make plays like Jackson can was the difference in the game. 

Me too!

 

What we have is a Jekyll and Hyde offensive coordinator, who for the previous three game setup the pass with the run. Got the run game going and then the worked the short passing game. 

 

Miami game, first series. Singletary 22 yard run and next four passes were short to McKenzie, Knox, Knox, Beasley, FG. 

 

Denver game, first series 2 runs by Singletary, short pass, 2 runs by Singletary, Allen up the middle for two, McKenzie off RT, Singletary run, Allen run, Singletary run, 2 short passes, Singletary run, short pass, Allen run, Allen sacked FG.

 

Dallas game, first series, Singletary 2 runs, Allen sacked, short pass, Allen Run, Punt.

 

Notice a trend here? Singletary runs with short passes to start the game.

 

 

Baltimore game, 2 Singletary runs, DEEP pass incomplete on 3rd and 4, Punt.

 

Buffalo second series, Singletary run, Allen sacked, DEEP pass incomplete on 3rd and 12, Punt.

 

Buffalo third series, short pass 10 yards, 1st and 10 short pass incomplete, 2nd down DEEP pass incomplete, 3rd down DEEP pass incomplete, Punt.

 

Notice this trend? Why all the deep pass plays? Bills OC Brian Daboll calling the deep passing plays in hopes of completing some to back the Ravens off the line with their pass rush? And instead the opposite happened as Allen missed those deep throws and the Ravens defense went on Jailbreak after Jailbreak after that. 

 

Singletary ended this game with a 5.2 YPC avg, and yet he got 17 rush attempts vs 39 pass attempts. Which in my view caused the Bills offensive play calling to force the QB and O line to take the brunt of that Ravens defense. Which basically forced them into the teeth of what that Ravens D does best. 

 

The Bills had a longer time to prep for this game due to playing on Thursday night and yet looked lost on offense. No adjustments with the line to help stop their rush. Where is the innovation to find a way to get the run game working from the start. All those missed deep passes ate away at Josh Allen's confidence and he was very erratic rather then settling in and gaining rhythm. 

 

What gets me mad is this game was very winnable if the Bills establish a strong run game along with the short passes that helps Allen develop rhythm, continuity. 

 

The Bills have a unique star in the making in Devin Singletary and for the life of me I don't get why they don't utilize him more in both the run game and pass game. While he did get 23 touches in this game 17 rushes, 6 passes. He clearly should have been more involved early. The Bills short pass game that worked against the previous three teams went out the window for some reason and this created problems. The Bills OC shot himself in the foot, IMHO. 

 

 

 

[Gugny]

12 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Me too!

 

What we have is a Jekyll and Hyde offensive coordinator, who for the previous three game setup the pass with the run. Got the run game going and then the worked the short passing game. 

 

Miami game, first series. Singletary 22 yard run and next four passes were short to McKenzie, Knox, Knox, Beasley, FG. 

 

Denver game, first series 2 runs by Singletary, short pass, 2 runs by Singletary, Allen up the middle for two, McKenzie off RT, Singletary run, Allen run, Singletary run, 2 short passes, Singletary run, short pass, Allen run, Allen sacked FG.

 

Dallas game, first series, Singletary 2 runs, Allen sacked, short pass, Allen Run, Punt.

 

Notice a trend here? Singletary runs with short passes to start the game.

 

 

Baltimore game, 2 Singletary runs, DEEP pass incomplete on 3rd and 4, Punt.

 

Buffalo second series, Singletary run, Allen sacked, DEEP pass incomplete on 3rd and 12, Punt.

 

Buffalo third series, short pass 10 yards, 1st and 10 short pass incomplete, 2nd down DEEP pass incomplete, 3rd down DEEP pass incomplete, Punt.

 

Notice this trend? Why all the deep pass plays? Bills OC Brian Daboll calling the deep passing plays in hopes of completing some to back the Ravens off the line with their pass rush? And instead the opposite happened as Allen missed those deep throws and the Ravens defense went on Jailbreak after Jailbreak after that. 

 

Singletary ended this game with a 5.2 YPC avg, and yet he got 17 rush attempts vs 39 pass attempts. Which in my view caused the Bills offensive play calling to force the QB and O line to take the brunt of that Ravens defense. Which basically forced them into the teeth of what that Ravens D does best. 

 

The Bills had a longer time to prep for this game due to playing on Thursday night and yet looked lost on offense. No adjustments with the line to help stop their rush. Where is the innovation to find a way to get the run game working from the start. All those missed deep passes ate away at Josh Allen's confidence and he was very erratic rather then settling in and gaining rhythm. 

 

What gets me mad is this game was very winnable if the Bills establish a strong run game along with the short passes that helps Allen develop rhythm, continuity. 

 

The Bills have a unique star in the making in Devin Singletary and for the life of me I don't get why they don't utilize him more in both the run game and pass game. While he did get 23 touches in this game 17 rushes, 6 passes. He clearly should have been more involved early. The Bills short pass game that worked against the previous three teams went out the window for some reason and this created problems. The Bills OC shot himself in the foot, IMHO. 

 

 

 

 

Amen, brother.

[FireChans]

10 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

Best way to beat a zero blitz is to just have - gronk.  Or someone like that.  You have no player that can beat him in single coverage.  So every time you have him iso'd you know you have like a pretty good chance to get a positive play.  

I disagree. A guy like a Gronk helps obviously, but the surefire way to beat Cover Zero is to beat them over the top. Teams aren’t respecting the deep ball for obvious reasons. If Josh hits either of the two wide open deep balls early, the Ravens are forced to adjust or live with 35 yard chunk plays given up. I’d say they’d probably adjust. 

 

Josh simply HAS to start making defenses pay for blitzing more frequently. The difference between him and Lamar yesterday was that Lamar hit on a big play and Josh couldn’t. 

[LABILLBACKER]

12 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

great write-up.  

 

The game planning by Daboll was awful, and particularly so in the 1st half.  This is an alarming-season long trend.  Good adjustments, but lets be ready when the game begins.  

 

I'd get Duke back in the game.  He makes contested catches.  

 

Get Knox receiving gloves, I don't get going bare handed in cold weather.  

 

Keep Roberts in the endzone.  It's crazy to have him running it out.  It's not working.  

Agree with all points....

Also bojo is the 2nd worst punter in the league. Roberts has been a huge disappointment. Special teams may not seem like a big deal to most but our ST overall is embarrassing. Give Duke another chance.  You might be surprised what he can contribute. Daboll is holding this team back and stunting Josh's development. Shaw made great points. I have a weird feeling this Pittsburgh game will mean everything to this team. They will have to leave it on the field.

Edited December 10, 2019 by LABILLBACKER

[Figster]

10 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

That's what I am afraid of. Allen has looked very good against the weaker defenses but so far against the better ones he has had his worst games. Allen is at his best when he moves around  to make plays. When teams have made him stay in the pocket he has looked pretty bad. Til he learns to be a better pocket passer and picks up blitzes better nothing will change. 

With that in mind, do you think a sprained ankle might have hurt Allens game vs the Ravens? 

 

 

[Jrb1979]

1 minute ago, Figster said:

With that in mind, do you think a sprained ankle might have hurt Allens game vs the Ravens? 

 

 

Maybe a little but the Ravens did a job of containing him. Allen isn't good enough at this point to overcome that. His deep ball is very incurrate and he doesn't read the defense good enough yet. 

[billsbackto81]

12 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Their defense was more dominant than ours yesterday.  Made our O look sick.  Josh needs to grow from this and someone has to figure out having a hot read he can go to quickly when the blitz comes.

Their Offensive Line was more dominant than ours yesterday. By a lot................

 

Ours looked like trash.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

12 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

he's still a god to millions of Bills fans....

 

(i don't get it either...)

 

 

 

You don’t get why Buffalo wouldn’t be a fan of a guy like Doug Flutie? The undersized underdog? I mean I don’t think he was a great QB by any means but he played gritty and got the W any way he could get it. I think he could’ve thrived if he played nowadays. 

[stuvian]

I know there's no moral victories but that was a respectable showing against the best team in football. It also exposed what we need to do to get to the next level.

• Josh Allen is still wildly inaccurate on the deep ball to the point where defenses don't have to respect it. So why didn't Daboll dial up some short passing on our first few drives? Our offense didn't show up until well into the 2nd quarter
• Josh Allen does not feel the rush and it pushed us out of FG range on more than one drive
• I'm ready to call Dawson Knox a bust. Our TEs are some combination of terrible and invisible
• We have no tall receiving threat and it's hurting us in the Red Zone
• Our defense is on the verge of greatness but they can't carry the offense forever

This team has emotional resilience. Despite being outplayed all game we came back and made it close. Did anyone in their heart of hearts expect us to beat Baltimore? This game showed that we are a very good wildcard team that can still challenge for the division. We have psychologically overcome a lot of losing by showing we can hang with the big kids in the NFL.

[Figster]

14 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

Maybe a little but the Ravens did a job of containing him. Allen isn't good enough at this point to overcome that. His deep ball is very incurrate and he doesn't read the defense good enough yet. 

I think If the shoe was on the other foot (Jackson's) OP's QB comparison might be a little different.

 

Greg Roman as we already know is a master mind at running the football. Lamar Jackson is in the perfect setting /system for his unique skill set.

 

The QB class of 2018 has been a refreshing shot in the arm to the NFL.  As names like Mayfield , Allen and Jackson begin their quest for greatness.

 

Out with the old, in with the New Era...

[Chaos]

First it was a one score game with a chance to tie on the last play.  The Bills have the personnel to beat the Ravens.  They simply out coached in this game.  They were not at all prepared for the Ravens defensive game plan.  They found no way to adjust.  Clock was managed poorly and The HC should have challenged the pass interference play.   Over time these small coaching diffeerences separate the Bill Parcells Bills Walsh’s and Bill Belichicks from the Marvin Lewises and Jason Garrett’s. They only way to know we are close is after we arrive by winning these kinds of games. 

Edited December 10, 2019 by Chaos

[Buffarukus]

shaw did they replay the defensive holding on star? im still looking for a reason a dt would defensively hold on a running play. at the same time hughs got a personal foul...i think for mouthing off to whoever called that bummed penalty.

 

im not blaming the loss on that sequence but it resulted in the first td. all together the refs were all over the place. that seems like the NFL today. you see a dt hold but miss 12 guys in a huddle? it continued on into all the other games that afternoon. 

 

just wondering if the stadium got a replay because the broadcast sure didnt. hoping someone with all 22 can explain maybe.

 

good write up as usual. thnx for the read.

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Buffarukus

[Shaw66]

13 minutes ago, Buffarukus said:

shaw did they replay the defensive holding on star? im still looking for a reason a dt would defensively hold on a running play. at the same time hughs got a personal foul...i think for mouthing off to whoever called that bummed penalty.

 

im not blaming the loss on that sequence but it resulted in the first td. all together the refs were all over the place. that seems like the NFL today. you see a dt hold but miss 12 guys in a huddle? it continued on into all the other games that afternoon. 

 

just wondering if the stadium got a replay because the broadcast sure didnt. hoping someone with all 22 can explain maybe.

 

 usual. thnx for the read.

 

 

 

I didn't see a replay of it.   During one of the games, late Sunday night or last night, the announcers said that the refs are making that call more often.  They said that what teams have been doing is telling the tackle who gets double teamed to try to hold up both blockers so they can't slide off and block at the second level.  So the refs have been looking for that holding and calling it more often in the past few weeks.  

 

Whether it actually was holding, who knows.  The officials call what they think they see, but sometimes there's actually nothing there.   

[billsintaiwan]

On 12/10/2019 at 1:35 AM, Casey D said:

I disagree that the difference between Jackson and Allen "made all the difference in the game."  Jackson was as pedestrian as Allen yesterday.  Outside of the pass to Hurst, Jackson threw for 84 yards (145 total), Allen for 146 total.  Jackson did little with his legs.  A great play by the corner on Brown at the end of the game was the difference between a flat out tie, as well as the defensive breakdown on the Hurst play.

 

It was two heavyweights playing yesterday and exchanging punches, and we just came up short.  It was not all on Allen, nor did Jackson outplay him overall.  It was a team loss against a very good team.  Move on and get into the playoffs and who cares.  This is not our year to bring home the Lombardi.  The window is just opening on that.  But I hope we get a rematch in the playoffs this year against the Ravens, that would be fun to watch.

You're right that it didn't come down to Allen v. Jackson. But Jackson hit the big pass and Allen didn't. I love Allen and I think, despite the evidence so far, that he will start hitting brown and foster when they have a step on their defender.

 

I also agree that we are a year away. Give Allen a true number one with size, speed, and catch radius and I think he will absolutely shine. And I reckon we get that guy in the draft this year. Team should be fun to watch for years to come.

[Shaw66]

21 minutes ago, billsintaiwan said:

You're right that it didn't come down to Allen v. Jackson. But Jackson hit the big pass and Allen didn't. I love Allen and I think, despite the evidence so far, that he will start hitting brown and foster when they have a step on their defender.

 

I also agree that we are a year away. Give Allen a true number one with size, speed, and catch radius and I think he will absolutely shine. And I reckon we get that guy in the draft this year. Team should be fun to watch for years to come.

I said earlier in the thread that I think it was all about Allen and Jackson.  Jackson dictated the kind of defense the Bills had to play, but the Ravens dictated to Allen.   The Ravens stacked the line of scrimmage, took away the run and forced Allen to get rid of the ball quickly.  Either because Allen couldn't do it or because Daboll didn't adjust properly, they stopped the Bills offense.  

 

It is true, of course, that if you take away one play the game's tied.  

 

The further I get from the game, the more amazing the two defenses seem to me.  They stuffed both offenses.  

[SactoBillFan]

Two turnovers the Ravens cashed in and the Bills didn't made a difference IMO

[Scott7975]

On 12/10/2019 at 9:06 PM, billsintaiwan said:

You're right that it didn't come down to Allen v. Jackson. But Jackson hit the big pass and Allen didn't. I love Allen and I think, despite the evidence so far, that he will start hitting brown and foster when they have a step on their defender.

 

I also agree that we are a year away. Give Allen a true number one with size, speed, and catch radius and I think he will absolutely shine. And I reckon we get that guy in the draft this year. Team should be fun to watch for years to come.

Jackson hit a 17 yard pass as his biggest pass.  The rest was YAC.  In fact Lamar only attempted 2 passes that traveled beyond 17/18 yards.  Both incompletions.  Allen hit a 22 yard pass and although he did miss a few open passes downfield he also had some big gainers dropped.

 

Also people keep talking about how defenses know Allen cant hit the long ball so they just blitz him.  Lamar has completed just 1 pass over 22 yards since week 3. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Scott7975

[Shaw66]

12 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Jackson hit a 17 yard pass as his biggest pass.  The rest was YAC.  In fact Lamar only attempted 2 passes that traveled beyond 17/18 yards.  Both incompletions.  Allen hit a 22 yard pass and although he did miss a few open passes downfield he also had some big gainers dropped.

 

Also people keep talking about how defenses know Allen cant hit the long ball so they just blitz him.  Lamar has completed just 1 pass over 22 yards since week 3. 

Defend Allen all you want, and minimize what Jackson did all you want, but answer me this:  Which quarterback exploited a defensive breakdown to get the touchdown that was the difference in the game?   I'll answer it.  Jackson.

 

Which quarterback kept drives alive running the ball?   Which quarterback kept drives alive by avoiding sacks?

 

It's just foolish to think that the difference in the QBs was not the difference in the game.  

[Scott7975]

51 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Defend Allen all you want, and minimize what Jackson did all you want, but answer me this:  Which quarterback exploited a defensive breakdown to get the touchdown that was the difference in the game?   I'll answer it.  Jackson.

 

Which quarterback kept drives alive running the ball?   Which quarterback kept drives alive by avoiding sacks?

 

It's just foolish to think that the difference in the QBs was not the difference in the game.  

I have a difference of opinion about this game. I agree that Lamar deserves mvp conversations and Allen does not. In this particular game I feel they both played equally bad against equally stout defenses.
The difference of the game for me was a blown coverage on a 17 yard pass taken to the house and giving Lamar practically first and goal off a fumble. I don’t believe Jackson would have driven the field for that score. Not the way the game was played. 
 

jackson avoided sacks. He had nowhere near the jailbreak troubles Josh has all game long. Allen played crappy. Jackson played crappy. The difference to me was one turnover in the red zone and Poyer messing up one play. 
 

also our offense as a whole was out of synch. From the online getting blown up to receivers dropping balls. That is a difference as well. Not just josh vs Lamar. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Scott7975

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

The difference of the game for me was a blown coverage on a 17 yard pass taken to the house and giving Lamar practically first and goal off a fumble. I don’t believe Jackson would have driven the field for that score. Not the way the game was played. 
 

 

Allen threw 14 more incomplete passes than Jackson.   I don't think he had 14 throw aways.   

 

Look at their passer ratings;  102 vs. 62.  

[Scott7975]

32 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Allen threw 14 more incomplete passes than Jackson.   I don't think he had 14 throw aways.   

 

Look at their passer ratings;  102 vs. 62.  

we lost by 7 points. The Ravens were almost given 14 free points with the busted coverage on one play and the free little school yard flip after the fumble. 

[Scott7975]

Let’s look at the scoring drives

 

Baltimore 27 yards, 15 yards, 75 yards(61 yards of this came on one busted play. Pass was 17 air yards,) 36 yards.
 

Not once did Lamar and his offense have to drive the field for a score. Any time he had to drive the field, outside the busted play, they punted or he threw an int. 
 

I don’t believe the difference was QB. 
 

 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

Let’s look at the scoring drives

 

Baltimore 27 yards, 15 yards, 75 yards(61 yards of this came on one busted play. Pass was 17 air yards,) 36 yards.
 

Not once did Lamar and his offense have to drive the field for a score. Any time he had to drive the field, outside the busted play, they punted or he threw an int. 
 

I don’t believe the difference was QB. 
 

 

On Tuesday morning, Lamar Jackson and his OC are looking at film of the Bills game.   On how many plays does Lamar wish he had a do over?    Three or five, including the INT.  

 

On Tuesday morning, Josh Allen and his OC are looking at film of the Ravens game.  On how many plays does Allen wish he had a do over?   Probably about 15.   

 

The game is about making the right decision and executing.   Jackson outplayed Allen.  

[Chaos]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Defend Allen all you want, and minimize what Jackson did all you want, but answer me this:  Which quarterback exploited a defensive breakdown to get the touchdown that was the difference in the game?   I'll answer it.  Jackson.

 

Which quarterback kept drives alive running the ball?   Which quarterback kept drives alive by avoiding sacks?

 

It's just foolish to think that the difference in the QBs was not the difference in the game.  

Or you are giving Jackson credit for something that was a team effort. One score game. McDermott does the correct thing and challenges the PI call that went uncalled, maybe the Bills win the game, and the whole QB narrative for the game collapses.    It appears to me that the Ravens exploit Jackson's strengths.  And the Bills want to mold Allen into something they think is is longer lasting.   I am not minimizing to minimize jackson.  But I think he has at least 2x the offensive talent around him (line particularly) and a much more effective OC this last week. 

[Scott7975]

35 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

On Tuesday morning, Lamar Jackson and his OC are looking at film of the Bills game.   On how many plays does Lamar wish he had a do over?    Three or five, including the INT.  

 

On Tuesday morning, Josh Allen and his OC are looking at film of the Ravens game.  On how many plays does Allen wish he had a do over?   Probably about 15.   

 

The game is about making the right decision and executing.   Jackson outplayed Allen.  

 

Now you are just making stuff up.  Shaw, I completely respect you.  I love reading your threads every week after the game.  I'm sorry though.  I have to disagree with you on this one.  Especially when you start making stuff up as an argument.

 

Jackson only wants 3-5 plays back including the INT.

 

Here are the non TD drives...

 

1. 6 plays 35 yards punt

2. drive start buff 45. 8 plays 27 yards (Jackson accounted for 7 of those yards) FG

3. 3 plays -6 yards punt

4. 3 plays INT

5. 3 plays 4 yards punt

6. 5 plays 17 yards punt

7. 3 plays 9 yards punt

8. 3 plays 7 yards punt

 

TD scoring drive.

 

1. Drive start 24 yard line. 5 plays 15 yards TD.  That was a gimme off a fumble.  

2.  3 plays 75 yards.  This was another gimme off a busted play. 17 air yards to a guy open by more than 5 yards right in the middle field of vision.  Does not get any easier than this.

3.  Drive start Ravens 49 yard line. 9 plays.  Lamar had a 7 yard pass, a 10 yard run, and a 4 yard TD pass ( this pass was very good though)

 

Lamar only wants 3-5 plays back? right. Lamar didn't do jack squat.  If you want to say he outplayed Allen.  That's fine.  He hit 1 busted pass that Allen didn't so he outplayed him.  He still played just as bad.

 

If I were Lamar I wouldn't be all ho hum I outplayed Allen.  If I were either of these QBs I would be asking myself how can I do better if we face each other in the playoffs.   Because they both played bad against great defenses.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Scott7975

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Now you are just making stuff up.  Shaw, I completely respect you.  I love reading your threads every week after the game.  I'm sorry though.  I have to disagree with you on this one.  Especially when you start making stuff up as an argument.

 

Jackson only wants 3-5 plays back including the INT.

 

Here are the non TD drives...

 

1. 6 plays 35 yards punt

2. drive start buff 45. 8 plays 27 yards (Jackson accounted for 7 of those yards) FG

3. 3 plays -6 yards punt

4. 3 plays INT

5. 3 plays 4 yards punt

6. 5 plays 17 yards punt

7. 3 plays 9 yards punt

8. 3 plays 7 yards punt

 

TD scoring drive.

 

1. Drive start 24 yard line. 5 plays 15 yards TD.  That was a gimme off a fumble.  

2.  3 plays 75 yards.  This was another gimme off a busted play. 17 air yards to a guy open by more than 5 yards right in the middle field of vision.  Does not get any easier than this.

3.  Drive start Ravens 49 yard line. 9 plays.  Lamar had a 7 yard pass, a 10 yard run, and a 4 yard TD pass ( this pass was very good though)

 

Lamar only wants 3-5 plays back? right. Lamar didn't do jack squat.  If you want to say he outplayed Allen.  That's fine.  He hit 1 busted pass that Allen didn't so he outplayed him.  He still played just as bad.

 

If I were Lamar I wouldn't be all ho hum I outplayed Allen.  If I were either of these QBs I would be asking myself how can I do better if we face each other in the playoffs.   Because they both played bad against great defenses.

You miss the point.   Yes, both offenses struggled.  But the Ravens offense didn't struggle because Jackson failed to execute.   Jackson completed 64% of his passes, threw 3 TD passes and ran for 30 yards.   He misfired on only a half dozen passes.   

 

Allen, on the other hand, missed on a lot of his passes, and he got sacked six times.  

 

I was talking about plays that the players want back because of their personal performance.  Jackson didn't have many - he executed the plays as drawn up, completed the passes, made the runs.   Allen didn't.  If Allen completed 64% of HIS passes, the Bills would have won.   

[GoBills808]

On 12/10/2019 at 3:02 PM, Buffarukus said:

shaw did they replay the defensive holding on star? im still looking for a reason a dt would defensively hold on a running play. at the same time hughs got a personal foul...i think for mouthing off to whoever called that bummed penalty.

 

im not blaming the loss on that sequence but it resulted in the first td. all together the refs were all over the place. that seems like the NFL today. you see a dt hold but miss 12 guys in a huddle? it continued on into all the other games that afternoon. 

 

just wondering if the stadium got a replay because the broadcast sure didnt. hoping someone with all 22 can explain maybe.

 

good write up as usual. thnx for the read.

 

 

 

Here's the video of the holding call-

 

Very, very questionable call, especially considering they are totally inconsistent in calling it, because later Lotulelei does the exact same thing here with no call (bottom video)-

 

 

[CorkScrewHill]

Really nice review of the game by Chris Simms .. he is very balanced and was very insightful. Note 20 minutes long.

 

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

You miss the point.   Yes, both offenses struggled.  But the Ravens offense didn't struggle because Jackson failed to execute.   Jackson completed 64% of his passes, threw 3 TD passes and ran for 30 yards.   He misfired on only a half dozen passes.   

 

Allen, on the other hand, missed on a lot of his passes, and he got sacked six times.  

 

I was talking about plays that the players want back because of their personal performance.  Jackson didn't have many - he executed the plays as drawn up, completed the passes, made the runs.   Allen didn't.  If Allen completed 64% of HIS passes, the Bills would have won.   

 

How many balls did the Ravens receivers drop that hit them right in the hands?  Josh had at least 3 - 4 downfield throws dropped.  Who knows what happens if they catch even one of those because at least 2 of them were drive killers.  Did McKenzie drop a TD pass?  I never seen a replay off it so couldn't tell if it was defended or he dropped a ball in his hands.  How many times did Lamars oline allow jailbreaks right up the middle on the snap as well as no edge escape routes?  Allen had many.

 

You miss the point that offensive production is not entirely on the quarterback.  There is plenty of blame to go around on our offense.  Also to completion%.  It helps greatly when you throw a screen pass to the LoS and it goes for yardage as opposed to being stopped instantly or having to be thrown in the dirt because it wasn't there to be executed from the get go.  Its also a field position game in a game like this.  Ravens had the better field position for most of the game by a mile.  It wasn't because Lamar was moving the ball and flipping the field.

 

I'll just agree to disagree with you and call it good.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Scott7975

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Really nice review of the game by Chris Simms .. he is very balanced and was very insightful. Note 20 minutes long.

 

I didn't realize Simms was so inarticulate.   He's stumbling all over himself.  

 

Still, his explanation of the long-TD is interesting and understandable.    Also, he's really clear that Baltimore had no respect for the Bills' receivers.   

 

And he loves the Bills D.   

[Buffarukus]

5 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Here's the video of the holding call-

 

Very, very questionable call, especially considering they are totally inconsistent in calling it, because later Lotulelei does the exact same thing here with no call (bottom video)-

 

 

 

thanks! yeah i was expecting to see a big reach grab to stop a guy from getting to the lbs..if anything. thats basically a get the f off me hip throw pancake. hands were basically inside and the play wasnt anywhere near em but ref sees guy flop to the ground so must throw the flag

 

 i guess you just have to let them block you! if your strong enough to toss them to the side try and do it so they dont fall...complete bs imo. 

 

if shaws right and they are told to look for THAT. the games truly degraded to pity pat tag football.

[GoBills808]

Just now, Buffarukus said:

 

thanks! yeah i was expecting to see a big reach grab to stop a guy from getting to the lbs..if anything. thats basically a get the f off me hip throw pancake. hands were basically inside and the play wasnt anywhere near em but ref sees guy flop to the ground so must throw the flag

 

 i guess you just have to let them block you! if your strong enough to toss them to the side try and do it so they dont fall...complete bs imo. 

 

if shaws right and they are told to look for THAT. the games truly degraded to pity pat tag football.

If you look at the second play it's the exact same thing and no flag