Why You Shouldn’t Feel Completely Dejected Over Josh Allen’s Poor Performance

[GoBills808]

^find them yourself, oh Beacon of Objectivity lmao...somehow I figure you'd enjoy scouring the interwebs for video clips of Allen throwing bad passes

 

 

[BBills88]

6 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

Yes, more than a few drops...at one point there were 3 or 4 in short order.  Not winning play.  Yes, Allen had a subpar stat game...but, he got stepped on, wrapped the ankle and was back out there....he was running for his life.....Ravens blitzed a lot, and Josh/Bills didn't handle it well imho.  All those sacks were only partially Allen's fault.  Lots of cases of guys coming in unabated as they say.  Did I hope for more, yes.  He will do better in the future.....this was a great learning opportunity for a young QB.  As for the long throws...he was ok on them year one.  This year is a problem.  My view is it is a mechanics issue and will get resolved in time.  It also think he is unloading long to fast....the rule is "as fast as possible, but no faster"....he is just firing without stepping into the throw and putting a normal motion on the throws.  Better days ahead.

I hope Dabol learned from the game that we can sneak a tight end out for a pass after he blocks, Run some slant plays, maybe try the quick pass game to counter those blitzs

Edited December 9, 2019 by BBills88

[Scott7975]

40 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I just rewatched it.

 

The ball isn't at Brown's hands in this shot.

 

In the next frame it looks like Peters knocks the ball away. 

 

He certainly celebrated like he got a hand on it. 

 

Both receivers had to dive to try and catch the ball at full stretch.

 

This is supposed to show accuracy?

 

Now post the throws to Brown, Foster and Knox in the first quarter....

He never touched the ball.  I posted the still images.  The ball most certainly IS in Browns hands.  If you don't see that your blind or have a motive.

 

 

 

I know its not the clearest shot but there is only so much I can do with Microsoft paint and a zoomed in screenshot from a twitter video.  Its clear as day regardless if you use your brain.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Scott7975

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Disagree.  Watch the video I posted somewhere around here.  There is a better angle of the play.  Almost a front shot of Brown.  Its Browns own hands that knock the ball away.  Even on this angle look at the placement of the defenders arm.  It is outside of Browns arms.  These screengrabs are after the Brown already pushed the ball forward with his own hands.  Its fast but pretty clear in the other angle if you keep pausing.  I could be wrong.  We will know for sure with coaches film when it can be slowed down but that's what I see.

 

If you look at this picture vs your shot you see the defender arm in the same position it is now with both Browns hands on the ball.  There is no way the defender in a split second brought his arm inside Browns hands and knocked it away...

 

 

 

Scott, I respect your view but TBH, I simply can't see the ball in the above front shot on any of the devices available to me, so I got to go with what I can see on the condensed film.  As you say with different angles on all-22 we may see something more.

 

I think the bottom line is that whether or not the defender got a hand in there, we do see other WR around the league haul in similar plays, so it can be done.

 

Does Allen need to make better decisions and play better at times, Yes. 

But this isn't all on him. 

He delivered a catchable ball for the TD or at least the 1st down, and it wasn't caught.

 

Same goes for a handful of other balls in the game (Beas, Singletary, Knox) and some other plays which were either not well designed to have an outlet, or the plausible outlet guy didn't have his head around at the top of the drop.

 

7 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

He never touched the ball.  I posted the still images.  The ball most certainly IS in Browns hands.  If you don't see that your blind or have a motive.

 

Please don't go there.  I see it differently.  I know you're not talking to me here, but I am neither blind, nor do I have a motive.

[billspro]

He just needs to have a good game against the Steelers or the Pats and we will be fine.

[dave mcbride]

57 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Negative see my pictures above.  

Well maybe not knocked away, but textbook coverage that usually results in an incompletion. Peters is a good player (although a first-class jerk).

[Scott7975]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Scott, I respect your view but TBH, I simply can't see the ball in the above front shot on any of the devices available to me, so I got to go with what I can see on the condensed film.  As you say with different angles on all-22 we may see something more.

 

I think the bottom line is that whether or not the defender got a hand in there, we do see other WR around the league haul in similar plays, so it can be done.

 

Does Allen need to make better decisions and play better at times, Yes. 

But this isn't all on him. 

He delivered a catchable ball for the TD or at least the 1st down, and it wasn't caught.

 

Same goes for a handful of other balls in the game (Beas, Singletary, Knox) and some other plays which were either not well designed to have an outlet, or the plausible outlet guy didn't have his head around at the top of the drop.

 

 

Please don't go there.  I see it differently.  I know you're not talking to me here, but I am neither blind, nor do I have a motive.

 

I can understand if you cant see the ball looking at it from a phone.  I can see it clear as day on my computer monitor.

[Allen2Moulds]

16 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Singletary wasn't even able to get two hands on the football.

I don't know if he would've gotten to it, but he definitely mistimed his jump.  Fouts saw and mentioned the same thing during the broadcast. Said that it looks like he could of gotten that extra needed step to get to the ball, had he not jumped early. But he's a RB, and it's hard to blame him.  Josh missed plenty of throws, outside of that one.  But he also was dealing with a lot of blitzing, and often times, our guys were not winning their matchups. As a whole, our offense got dominated by their defense. Josh needs to improve, but he also needs a better supporting cast.  I know that we made a ton of moves this past offseason, but that only moved the needle from historically bad to respectable.  Now we need to move the needle again, from respectable to good.  Keep improving the o-line, and add a dynamic weapon in the passing game, starting with a big but fast receiver that can match up well.  Someone who maybe would've caught that ball that Brown got beat on.  Brown would also have a lot more success, if he slides down to WR2. 

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Well maybe not knocked away, but textbook coverage that usually results in an incompletion. Peters is a good player (although a first-class jerk).

 

Yes I don't blame Brown for the drop.  It was outstanding coverage and a tough catch.  I merely comment on the fact that the ball wasn't knocked away by the defender therefor technically it is a drop.

[dave mcbride]

50 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm not sure two stills tell you everything about the play. 

Irregardless of that, the fact is, we see WR and TE make completions on those kind of accurate contested throws every week

We seldom see our guys make it happen though

Edit: here is a still with different timing.  It appears to me that Peters got the back of his hand under and in front of the ball and deflected it forward (2nd picture).  Based upon this, I believe the ball was defensed by Peters, but my point that other WR on other teams do sometimes manage to haul in these high DOD, well-defended catches, and I can't remember the last time I saw one by a Buffalo Bill player, let alone a WR.

That is some damn good defense. Brown ain't that easy to cover on a slant given his speed. You know how you can tell Peters is good? He repeatedly gets kicked off of teams yet other good teams covet him.

Just now, Scott7975 said:

 

Yes I don't blame Brown for the drop.  It was outstanding coverage and a tough catch.  I merely comment on the fact that the ball wasn't knocked away by the defender therefor technically it is a drop.

I have  a very different definition of what a "drop" is, but reasonable minds can disagree. The pass was on the money, but i don't think it was a drop either. Regardless, Allen put it where he had to on that play, and it was a money play. Just good D by Peters.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

54 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

When they amount for -1 yards of offense, that's pretty nonexistent

 

It's not a commentary on just this season, either. Only Chan in the past 20 years or so consistently called them.

 

 

To me, there's a difference. 

Are we calling them and they aren't working (which is what I see), or is Daboll not calling plays that should be effective against the blitz?

The answer seems to be the first (calling and not working)

 

 

 

 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

That is some damn good defense. Brown ain't that easy to cover on a slant given his speed. You know how you can tell Peters is good? He repeatedly gets kicked off of teams yet other good teams covet him.

Yeh it's great defense no doubt, but I have to wonder if Brown could have been a little stronger in leverage inside and keeping Peters off his shoulder. That's one of those plays that goes to the man who wants it more imo

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I can understand if you cant see the ball looking at it from a phone.  I can see it clear as day on my computer monitor

 

I'm looking on a computer monitor.  It's not an Atari, but neither is it the latest and greatest modern swag.

 

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Yeh it's great defense no doubt, but I have to wonder if Brown could have been a little stronger in leverage inside and keeping Peters off his shoulder. That's one of those plays that goes to the man who wants it more imo

 

That's exactly my take. 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

To me, there's a difference. 

Are we calling them and they aren't working (which is what I see), or is Daboll not calling plays that should be effective against the blitz?

The answer seems to be the first (calling and not working)

 

 

 

 

I think part of the problem is Allen; he's gotta keep the blitz beater passes at the front of his mind or this is going to happen over and over. Beasley is a blitz beater if there ever was one. I just wish they had a more reliable TE in that regard too. Knox's drop yesterday was really disappointing. There have just been too many of those, and you have to think that it's going to color Allen's decision-making with regard to him in the near future. 

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Yeh it's great defense no doubt, but I have to wonder if Brown could have been a little stronger in leverage inside and keeping Peters off his shoulder. That's one of those plays that goes to the man who wants it more imo

Brown is a really good player, but he's not Julio Jones. He's a lot smaller than Peters. 

[CincyBillsFan]

6 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

The lack of touch on deep balls is what drives me nuts. Throughout the season, he has missed wide open guys. Its happened several times when he has had time to throw and was not hurrying to complete a pass. I could give him a break if it was just at the Ralph where the wind has been awful in a few games this year but it has happened away from home as well. I don't know how you fix this but if he had connected on even one of those 3 misses on long passes yesterday, I think we win that game.

 

He had fantastic touch on the deep throws to Knox, Singelterry & Beasley - Bease dropped his pass, Suingleterry left his feet a half second to soon and Knox made a nice one handed catch on a ball that literally landed on his bicep.

 

And don't forget the deep shot to Foster.  That was on target and the only way the Ravens could prevent the completion was to commit PI.  I would also argue that a bigger, more physical WR easily high points that ball and makes the catch.

 

 

[Mango]

For the record, I don't think people are dejected after this game, just disappointed. 

 

Josh has been slowly getting better since the Patriots debacle. I think he looked like he had been hitting a nice stride the 2-3 weeks prior to Baltimore. We just expected his showing to be not exactly what we got against NE, and he failed to deliver. But I think the fan base is a bit higher on him now after this loss than they were the NE loss because of some of the progress he has shown. But as we know this league is "what have you done for me lately", and he just made his own leash shorter. 

[Scott7975]

How about these ones....

[CincyBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

For the record, I don't think people are dejected after this game, just disappointed. 

 

Josh has been slowly getting better since the Patriots debacle. I think he looked like he had been hitting a nice stride the 2-3 weeks prior to Baltimore. We just expected his showing to be not exactly what we got against NE, and he failed to deliver. But I think the fan base is a bit higher on him now after this loss than they were the NE loss because of some of the progress he has shown. But as we know this league is "what have you done for me lately", and he just made his own leash shorter. 

 

 

Not to mention that Baltimore is the best Team in the NFL.  After watching them the last few weeks they really do have the best offense and the best defense in the NFL.  I mean look at what they did to NE & the LA Rams. 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, Mango said:

For the record, I don't think people are dejected after this game, just disappointed. 

 

Josh has been slowly getting better since the Patriots debacle. I think he looked like he had been hitting a nice stride the 2-3 weeks prior to Baltimore. We just expected his showing to be not exactly what we got against NE, and he failed to deliver. But I think the fan base is a bit higher on him now after this loss than they were the NE loss because of some of the progress he has shown. But as we know this league is "what have you done for me lately", and he just made his own leash shorter. 

Agreed. He's not going to be great every game. Every qb has a bad game now and then. It's been a while since he had a bad game (Philly, really; he was half-decent vs. Cleveland).

[Scott7975]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm looking on a computer monitor.  It's not an Atari, but neither is it the latest and greatest modern swag.

 

 

That's exactly my take. 

 

How about those above.  Please tell me you see his red glove touching the brown ball.  I don't mean this in a dickish way but even though these are not hd pictures... if you don't see it you might need a new monitor  

16 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

That is some damn good defense. Brown ain't that easy to cover on a slant given his speed. You know how you can tell Peters is good? He repeatedly gets kicked off of teams yet other good teams covet him.

I have  a very different definition of what a "drop" is, but reasonable minds can disagree. The pass was on the money, but i don't think it was a drop either. Regardless, Allen put it where he had to on that play, and it was a money play. Just good D by Peters.

 

To me a drop has a singular definition.  If it hits the hands and is not caught, its a drop.  However there are different degrees of drops in my head.  That is not one I would B word at the receiver about. It was outstanding coverage.  Not all drops are equal and that surely wasn't Beasley or Knox's drops.

[Mango]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Not to mention that Baltimore is the best Team in the NFL.  After watching them the last few weeks they really do have the best offense and the best defense in the NFL.  I mean look at what they did to NE & the LA Rams. 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Agreed. He's not going to be great every game. Every qb has a bad game now and then. It's been a while since he had a bad game (Philly, really; he was half-decent vs. Cleveland).

 

Just to be clear, I personally think this was one of his worst games of his career, and wasn't just bad. 

 

I was more commenting on fan reaction, than quality of play. He is basically getting a 1 game pass because of the last few weeks. 

[Scott7975]

17 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

To me, there's a difference. 

Are we calling them and they aren't working (which is what I see), or is Daboll not calling plays that should be effective against the blitz?

The answer seems to be the first (calling and not working)

 

 

 

 

 

IMO yes #1.  However  this has been a problem in other games.  10 days to prepare and you know this is coming from the Ravens as well.  I feel like Daboll should have had a better plan than some screen passes and some deep balls that haven't worked all season.  Some of that is on Allen as well, but … its an OC job to find an answer during game plan time.  Not stick with what hasn't worked in any game yet.

 

For instance the Ravs are known to get burned on the outside.  Why no jet sweeps that have worked very well for us?  Why Singletary not run outside more when it was working fairly well.  Instead he goes against the grain and runs inside and Gore outside on the goal line losing yardage.  Absolutely mind boggling to me.  Sure Daboll schemes guys open sometimes and Allen doesn't hit them sometimes.  Ok but what about the rest.  We never do anything that goes against a teams known weakness.  

Edited December 9, 2019 by Scott7975

[Reed83HOF]

 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Mango said:

 

 

Just to be clear, I personally think this was one of his worst games of his career, and wasn't just bad. 

 

I was more commenting on fan reaction, than quality of play. He is basically getting a 1 game pass because of the last few weeks. 

He's had worse games. At least he avoided the crushing INTs, and while he fumbled once on a crushing blindside hit (anyone would have fumbled on that play; thanks, Knox!), he held onto it on many other crushing blows. The ball security was good yesterday, which is partly why they were able to hang around.  He was far worse - absolutely awful - vs. NE both this year and last season and against GB last season. 

[Pokebball]

6 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

He was running for his life, but on a few of those situations, he didn’t need to be.  The right move was to hang in the pocket and to step up.  
 

If the Ravens blitz and play Cover 0, that means one man is coming unlocked.  Josh needs to recognize where the pressure is coming from and make them pay.  
 

Yea it was a bad OL performance but I think Allen was a bigger letdown.  Regardless, I think the fan base can’t base everything on this one game.  Baltimore has been really good vs opposing QB’s

Their NT was pushing Morse back a few feet all day.  The Raven's DL made our OL look pretty bad.  I've been impressed with the progress of our OL over the past 3 or so games.  The Bill's OL looked like they did our first or second game this year, or dare I say like last year's OL.  They were the most disappointing unit in yesterday's game in my opinion.

[CincyBillsFan]

7 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

 

Just to be clear, I personally think this was one of his worst games of his career, and wasn't just bad. 

 

I was more commenting on fan reaction, than quality of play. He is basically getting a 1 game pass because of the last few weeks. 

 

I disagree.  I think the first half was his 2nd worst half of this season.  And the only reason it wasn't his worst was that he didn't throw an INT.  The fumble wasn't all on him as most QB's fumble after getting hit in the back by an edge rusher that fast off the snap.

 

Where I differ with you is the 2nd half where IMO he played well.  The drops were a big deal and if our guys make those plays and we get the flag for PI we win this game and Allen ends up looking good in the process. 

7 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

 

Their NT was pushing Morse back a few feet all day.  The Raven's DL made our OL look pretty bad.  I've been impressed with the progress of our OL over the past 3 or so games.  The Bill's OL looked like they did our first or second game this year, or dare I say like last year's OL.  They were the most disappointing unit in yesterday's game in my opinion.

 

 

And this was why we probably didn't run any of those gadget shovel passes or reverses to McKenzie.  They might have ended in disaster given the Ravens penetration.

 

 

[BananaB]

22 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

How about these ones....

*****, that looks like another drop to me. 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, BananaB said:

*****, that looks like another drop to me. 

 

Again, it could be just video tricks because I cant slow them down.  Coaches film will say more.  This is the evidence I have to work with though and to me,  I see a ball in Browns hands.

[Livinginthepast]

26 minutes ago, BananaB said:

*****, that looks like another drop to me. 

I think that Brown has proven he has great hands and the Jags defender did just enough to disrupt the pass. In fact it borders on PI but is probably a good no call. I don't think its a drop. But as others have said does Peters come through a bigger wide receiver there on that same play? Brown isn't that big a body. This is why I have been and will continue to scream for Duke Williams on that exact play. Peters wouldn't have gone through Duke to break it up.

[GregPersons]

3 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

I think that Brown has proven he has great hands and the Jags defender did just enough to disrupt the pass. In fact it borders on PI but is probably a good no call. I don't think its a drop. But as others have said does Peters come through a bigger wide receiver there on that same play? Brown isn't that big a body. This is why I have been and will continue to scream for Duke Williams on that exact play. Peters wouldn't have gone through Duke to break it up.

 

100% agree. I think this is the right take. Robert Woods isn't making that catch, either... Peters was all over him and got enough of Brown's body to disrupt. Borderline PI, agreed.

 

Not sure why the coaches are resisting the obvious. Duke is a big body with hands... that is the biggest missing ingredient with the offense. Tell Tyler Kroft to rest his foot, and give Duke some opportunities at TE. 

[Scott7975]

9 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

I think that Brown has proven he has great hands and the Jags defender did just enough to disrupt the pass. In fact it borders on PI but is probably a good no call. I don't think its a drop. But as others have said does Peters come through a bigger wide receiver there on that same play? Brown isn't that big a body. This is why I have been and will continue to scream for Duke Williams on that exact play. Peters wouldn't have gone through Duke to break it up.

 

I agree with everything you say here except the borderline PI.  That was amazing coverage and he did nothing to throw a flag at.  He was on Browns rear the entire way and never interfered.  Just amazing perfect coverage.  Brown is just the wrong receiver for that particular playout.  I think Duke would have boxed him out better like you said.

[Fixxxer]

another road block for Josh Allen to sort out. We will see if he keeps improving and getting better.

[OZBILLS]

We played the best team in the league and played like absolute ratshit and could/should have won on the last play.

 

If Allen plays 10% better, we win.

 

Things are looking up, but we need to minimize the margins between our best and worst

[MDH]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

The pass was on the money, but i don't think it was a drop either. Regardless, Allen put it where he had to on that play, and it was a money play. Just good D by Peters.

It wasn’t a bad pass but given the coverage it wasn’t where it needed to be. Ideally the ball would have been down and away from Brown so only he could get his hands on it.

[iinii]

Because the o-line was a sieve?

[Tesla03]

I blame his OC more. Allen was getting destroyed by the blitz and Dabbol did not make a single adjustment to help his young QB out...

 

where were the quick slants, jet sweeps, bootlegs , screens. all he did was call that stupid WR bubble screen that the ravens sniffed out all day long. he called it again on the final drive of the game which made me want to throw my tv out the window. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

8 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

This is something they will work on in practice no doubt.  Defense sending the house and beating Cover 0 coverage.  
 

What might work in Allen’s favor is that Pittsburgh plays a lot of zone, whereas NE and BAL play man-to-man because their CB’s are strong.  

You might not be dejected but there were several emotions responses on Bills Twitter.  They boiled down to:

 

”Josh Allen sucks”

 

”Josh Allen doesn’t suck, but his OL and WR’s do”

 

”Brian Daboll sucks and needs to be fired.”

 

All of these are severe overreactions after a bad performance to a defensive secondary that is very good 

True story. I was in the stands for a Bills Pats game, Bills were playing well and some NE fans around me were commiserating about Brady, his struggles and maybe he was done.  Then McKelvin opted for a return and put the ball on the carpet...

 

Fans are not always not dumb. 
 

 

[Pokebball]

26 minutes ago, Tesla03 said:

I blame his OC more. Allen was getting destroyed by the blitz and Dabbol did not make a single adjustment to help his young QB out...

 

where were the quick slants, jet sweeps, bootlegs , screens. all he did was call that stupid WR bubble screen that the ravens sniffed out all day long. he called it again on the final drive of the game which made me want to throw my tv out the window. 

Quite a few young guys that hopefully review film study the tape and learn a lot from yesterday's game.  Their growth and response is more important than their play yesterday.

[TheCockSportif]

Allen was Real Bad yesterday.  Real Bad.  However, and without question, he gets a third year to work this out (or not).  He's not EJ Manuel fer chrissakes, and not by a long shot.  And I think that's a good thing.

 

I'm not dejected about what happened yesterday.  At all.  I just want reasonably consistent O play week after week.

 

The Bills, most likely, will make the playoffs again this year.  And they will certainly finish > .500, which is a major "yay" in the Book of Groin.  Longer term, I think they need to change O coordinator (again) and to get a couple of big, strong, and speedy guys at WR.

 

Take it from your pal, Groin.  You love this nickname, and if you deny it then you are lying.  :-)

[dubs]

8 hours ago, RichRiderBills said:

I'm sure the 22 will show a few misses by Josh...Im going to give extra points to Lamar because he was getting hit as he threw this ball.

 

Set aside the nature of the Raven's offense and I marveled at how nice the screens were set up. We need to do better here....and Josh had some bad touch on some screens / check downs later on.

 

I think generally Josh did get outplayed in this one, mainly because the early misses on all those deep passes. Again,  I think theses were bad support by Daboll. Bad calls in swirling winds, and then our short passing game looked poorly executed. That didnt help Josh's case. 

 

Nevertheless, John Brown fights for that perfectly thrown slant and we maybe win (or send to OT at least).

I agree. Jackson played better, it’s not debatable. But it’s not like he was HoF out there and Josh was HS. 
 

they both played pretty bad, but Jackson was less bad. He gets credit for hitting a wide open TE 15 yards in front of him, no doubt.