Why wasn't Duke Williams active?

[Nelius]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

because he’s not an NFL caliber receiver. No need to mention what is obvious to everyone (besides you.)

 

Unlike the undrafted ghost of Robert Foster, who the vast majority of this board is still waiting for. Maybe he'll have that breakout game in Week 15, eh?

[GregPersons]

14 minutes ago, MDH said:

If only the coaching staff knew as much as the fans when it comes to Duke Williams.  ?

 

The coaching staff is human. They are not infallible. They are capable of making mistakes. Zay Jones. Kelvin Benjamin. NATHAN PETERMAN.

 

What I like about this staff is that they generally don't hold the attitude that they're beyond reproach... they seem to respond to the data as it presents itself. While they have been stubborn and arrogant at times, there's not a coaching staff on the planet that hasn't. 

 

Duke played very well in his one game appearance. He was the hero of that game. He seemed to be well-liked by his teammates in all of the stories that came out that week. He played well enough to make Zay Jones expendable.

 

Is Duke incapable of playing well again just because he hasn't yet played again? 

 

13 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

The fans are seeing at least two receivers that do nothing on a weekly basis. It's a valid argument.

 

I would love to hear a reporter ask McDermott or Daboll this — why NOT give Duke Williams a shot at TE???  He has the size and the hands to be effective. I don't know how he is as a blocker or on special teams. Even if he's lousy at both, we saw today how crucial it is to have a big-bodied receiver who can HOLD ONTO THE BALL. Could the staff give Duke some opportunity, even just a fraction of the amount of opportunity afforded to Knox or Zay Jones? 

 

I wouldn't sit any of the WRs but I would deactivate Tyler Kroft (or Lee Smith but I know he's needed for his ST play, whereas Kroft isn't).

 

3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB — Brown, Beasley, Foster/McKenzie, Duke, Singletary

 

2 WR, 2 TE, 1 RB — Brown, Beasley, Duke, Knox/Smith, Singletary/Gore

Edited December 9, 2019 by GregPersons

[JoPoy88]

11 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

Unlike the undrafted ghost of Robert Foster, who the vast majority of this board is still waiting for. Maybe he'll have that breakout game in Week 15, eh?

foster is terrible too. What’s your point

[Nelius]

1 minute ago, JoPoy88 said:

foster is terrible too. What’s your point

 

??? Pretty sure you just made it for me. It's outlandish for fans to talk about getting terrible guy 1 out of there so they can see potentially terrible guy 2 instead? Let's just continue to ignore our WR depth completely because we all know that everybody after Beasley sucks anyway? 

[JoPoy88]

2 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

??? Pretty sure you just made it for me. It's outlandish for fans to talk about getting terrible guy 1 out of there so they can see potentially terrible guy 2 instead? Let's just continue to ignore our WR depth completely because we all know that everybody after Beasley sucks anyway? 

And if Duke can’t crack the active 46 with terrible, below replacement-level receivers like foster ahead of him, what’s that say about Duke chief? 
 

he’s trash. He belongs back in the CFL.

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, tannins said:

Dropson Knox 

 

He was awful today. 

[Nelius]

Just now, JoPoy88 said:

And if Duke can’t crack the active 46 with terrible, below replacement-level receivers like foster ahead of him, what’s that say about Duke chief? 
 

he’s trash. He belongs back in the CFL.

 

It could say a lot of things "chief" which is why we're having a discussion about it. They already had him in before so they're clearly waffling a bit with a bunch of bottom tier wide receivers, so it's perfectly fine for fans to discuss going with the guy that has a different skillset and scored a friggin TD when given the opportunity. This clearly annoys you for some reason. It's hours after a loss so I get it if you're 13 bourbons deep and looking for a fight ya old rascal.

[GregPersons]

20 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

this exactly. Activating a guy that can’t get open to throw 50/50 balls to all day seems like not a very realistic formula for sustained offensive success. Yet here we are. Every week. The same people. (These people who, btw, do not see Duke in practice, as the coaches do, who are making the (likely) wise decision to park his butt on the inactive list.)

None of us are seeing Duke in practice, and the media doesn't have access either, so we do not know if he's playing poorly there. He could be catching every ball thrown his way in practice. Both are possible. Duke is Schrodinger's cat.  Why he hasn't been active on game day is not definitely "he isn't playing well in practice." We don't know that to be true. All we know for sure is that he must be practicing well enough to not get cut because he's still on the 53 man roster. 

 

What we do know are these things:

 

—In his one game appearance, Duke Williams played very well. Is this debatable, or do we all agree on this point?

—Dawson Knox leads the NFL in drops, and Tyler Kroft has not made any impact as a Bill

—In the 5 games that Tyler Kroft has been healthy enough to play, he's caught 4 passes for 52 yards.

—Duke Williams is 6'2", which is shorter than this team prefers for TE — but it's still within the range of NFL average height for TE (which is 6'3)... Delanie Walker is 6'0.

 

 

3 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

And if Duke can’t crack the active 46 with terrible, below replacement-level receivers like foster ahead of him, what’s that say about Duke chief? 
 

he’s trash. He belongs back in the CFL.

 

No. You can be as rude about it as you like, but that's not definitely true. Duke obviously has the potential to help the Bills passing game. He already displayed that, with this team, this season. He hasn't had the opportunity to repeat. Asking why he hasn't is a perfectly valid question. 

 

 

[JoPoy88]

2 minutes ago, GregPersons said:

None of us are seeing Duke in practice, and the media doesn't have access either, so we do not know if he's playing poorly there. He could be catching every ball thrown his way in practice. Both are possible. Duke is Schrodinger's cat.  Why he hasn't been active on game day is not definitely "he isn't playing well in practice." We don't know that to be true. All we know for sure is that he must be practicing well enough to not get cut because he's still on the 53 man roster. 

 

What we do know are these things:

 

—In his one game appearance, Duke Williams played very well. Is this debatable, or do we all agree on this point?

—Dawson Knox leads the NFL in drops, and Tyler Kroft has not made any impact as a Bill

—In the 5 games that Tyler Kroft has been healthy enough to play, he's caught 4 passes for 52 yards.

—Duke Williams is 6'2", which is shorter than this team prefers for TE — but it's still within the range of NFL average height for TE (which is 6'3)... Delanie Walker is 6'0.

 

 

 

No. You can be as rude about it as you like, but that's not definitely true. Duke obviously has the potential to help the Bills passing game. He already displayed that, with this team, this season. He hasn't had the opportunity to repeat. Asking why he hasn't is a perfectly valid question. 

 

 

See you started out completely correct then went somewhere else. 
 

you know who does see him every day in practice? The coaches. Who decides who’s active on sunday? The coaches. So while you correctly point out that we don’t know, I will continue to trust the guys that have more info than me. Seriously most here seem more than willing to heap praise on McD except when it comes to this poor, poor 6th string receiver that can’t get a shot. Except he did get a shot earlier in the year.

[Nelius]

I love McD but a current, potentially minor flaw is that this regime has definitely shown a tendency to stick with some fringe guys a bit longer than they should. There may be some bias from time to time. The Daboll-Foster connection for example? 

[GregPersons]

41 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

See you started out completely correct then went somewhere else. 
 

you know who does see him every day in practice? The coaches. Who decides who’s active on sunday? The coaches. So while you correctly point out that we don’t know, I will continue to trust the guys that have more info than me. Seriously most here seem more than willing to heap praise on McD except when it comes to this poor, poor 6th string receiver that can’t get a shot. Except he did get a shot earlier in the year.

 

The coaching staff is human. They are not infallible. They are capable of making mistakes. Zay Jones. Kelvin Benjamin. NATHAN PETERMAN.

They are capable of missing things. Sometimes it's because they're spending all day in practice with these guys. I'm sure Nathan Peterman is the nicest person on the planet. I'm sure he practices hard and is great in the classroom. That doesn't change the fact that ALL OF US -- coaches and fans alike -- are all looking at the same on-field product on Sundays. As fans, we don't need to have the same level of granular knowledge as the coaches do to see things like, Peterman isn't capable of starting in the NFL, or Zay Jones is not helping the offense by dropping half of his targets... 

 

Duke played very well in his one game appearance. He was the hero of that game. He seemed to be well-liked by his teammates in all of the stories that came out that week. He played well enough to make Zay Jones expendable.

 

So, is Duke incapable of playing well again? What was so special about the Titans game that allowed Duke to play so far beyond his usual abilities then? 

 

Bottom line, here's my take. I'm not suggesting Duke is a secret All Pro being banished to the bench unfairly... I'm saying Duke is a big target who played well, and the Bills need a big target who can play well.  The Bills' big targets are playing poorly. Dawson Knox is leading the league in drops. Tyler Kroft has been a complete non-factor. Lee Smith is not going to be the answer as a receiver. 

 

Maybe Duke would not do well as a TE. But have they tried? Would it hurt to try? We've been able to win plenty of games without Tyler Kroft active. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by GregPersons

[Don Otreply]

11 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

just because he caught a few doesn’t mean he’s catching those balls today. He very well could have but it’s not a given. 

His history with the Bills says it’s a high probability 

[Rc2catch]

7 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

His history with the Bills says it’s a high probability 

History? Guy has 6 catches in the NFL. 

[Don Otreply]

7 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

History? Guy has 6 catches in the NFL. 

... in two games that he performed very well in, including a winning TD, but that should be discounted because of... no apparent reason... 

No one is saying he is JR, but hell man, he can body up a corner and catch a pass, it’s not like it isn’t obvious,

 

Go Bills!!!

Edited December 9, 2019 by Don Otreply

[Hebert19]

Robert's needs to sit.  Let micah and McKenzie take returns and bring duke into lineup.  I have to imagine if we had him in the redzone in final drive he would have been targeted at least once 

[John from Riverside]

It would be different if duke was given a chance and didn’t produce

 

thebgiy gets on the field and immediately scores a touchdown not to mention makes catches

 

then bam back to the bench

[Livinginthepast]

23 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

It would be different if duke was given a chance and didn’t produce

 

thebgiy gets on the field and immediately scores a touchdown not to mention makes catches

 

then bam back to the bench

Why has nobody on the Bills media beat ASKED McD and co point blank to justify this decision? He produced when he had the chance and then you mysteriously take that chance away with no apparent rationalization. If the people in place of Duke were playing better and scoring TDs or making those contested catches then fine, we don't need him. But they are simply not doing that. So why keep them active and Duke sitting?

[Rocbillsfan1]

58 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

History? Guy has 6 catches in the NFL. 

And that’s more than Robert foster for the entire 2019 season. What is wrong with you people. I’ve never seen so much bs tossed at a guy that has produced when given a chance and has a completely different skill set than the other wrs on the roster. We aren’t asking for the world for duke. All we are expecting is a stat line of 3 or 4 catches for 30-40 yards with a possible td and red zone threat from week to week. Any reasonable fan can see this from a mile away. 

[Rc2catch]

15 minutes ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

And that’s more than Robert foster for the entire 2019 season. What is wrong with you people. I’ve never seen so much bs tossed at a guy that has produced when given a chance and has a completely different skill set than the other wrs on the roster. We aren’t asking for the world for duke. All we are expecting is a stat line of 3 or 4 catches for 30-40 yards with a possible td and red zone threat from week to week. Any reasonable fan can see this from a mile away. 

You people? I’ve never said anything negative about duke or supported him being inactive. 
Not sure if you woke up on the wrong side of the bed lol.. All I said was him being on the field yesterday probably does not make a difference, not a knock on him more of a knock on Allen not finding receivers and some of the receivers dropping balls. 
No guarantees duke doesn’t drop the same balls Knox and Beasley drop. He has 6 catches its hard to say he’s not going to drop crucial catches as well or have bad penalties. But I don’t and never supported him being inactive for game days. Matter of fact I have wanted Yeldon and him active for weeks. They need everyone on deck for the offense 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Rc2catch

[Alphadawg7]

10 hours ago, BananaB said:

Foster has 3 catches on the season, it’s not hard to top that. Not sure what’s going on in practice but he is pretty much useless on the field. 

Duke has actually already topped Fosters season and has double the catches in just 3 games played and has a game winning TD to go with it.  

Edited December 9, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Rocbillsfan1]

As my dad use to say “scoreboard” right now all the signs point to duke Williams deserving to get Pt in certain situations. Daboll is not using all of his weapons wisely. All this conjecture about hey maybe duke Williams will drop balls is nonsense. All the guy did in the cfl training camp preseason and his limited game time was catch the football and provide a bigger target that can work for josh Allen. If he falls on his face so be it, deactivate him. But posters here advocating still for foster and McKenzie is beyond excusable. This is the nfl. If you’re on the field you need to produce or get the hell off ala zay Jones. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Rocbillsfan1

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

As my dad use to say “scoreboard” right now all the signs point to duke Williams deserving to get Pt in certain situations. Daboll is not using all of his weapons wisely. All this conjecture about hey maybe duke Williams will drop balls is nonsense. All the guy did in the cfl training camp preseason and his limited game time was catch the football and provide a bigger target that can work for josh Allen. If he falls on his face so be it, deactivate him. But posters here advocating still for foster and McKenzie is beyond excusable. This is the nfl. If you’re on the field you need to produce or get the hell off ala zay Jones. 

Actually, it’s the exact opposite . It’s completely excusable as it doesn’t mean JACK what we advocate for.  

[Rocbillsfan1]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Actually, it’s the exact opposite . It’s completely excusable as it doesn’t mean JACK what we advocate for.  

Oh really? So you don’t think fan pressure or media pressure hasn’t played in coach’s decisions before? Being a stubborn meathead is usually what gets coaches fired. I like McDermott but he’s left me scratching my head a few times in the past, and usually he has done a good job improving from those mistakes. People should be on him and Daboll for their questionable use of players on the offense. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Rocbillsfan1

[NewEra]

Just now, Rocbillsfan1 said:

Oh really? So you don’t think fan pressure or media pressure hasn’t played in coach’s decisions before?

Duke Williams being active for a game will have nothing to do with us.  I promise 

[Rocbillsfan1]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Duke Williams being active for a game will have nothing to do with us.  I promise 

Maybe so, but it’s always been part of the role like it or not as a fan or member of the media to be critical of the head coach’s decisions. And the obvious elephant in the room right now should be why is gore on the field and why is duke Williams not on the field in situations where he can contribute to help this team. 

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

Maybe so, but it’s always been part of the role like it or not as a fan or member of the media to be critical of the head coach’s decisions. And the obvious elephant in the room right now should be why is gore on the field and why is duke Williams not on the field in situations where he can contribute to help this team. 

I’m responding to THIS thread and a bolded portion in particular.  Don’t turn this into something that it’s not

[Lurker]

12 hours ago, GregPersons said:

But have they tried? Would it hurt to try? We've been able to win plenty of games without Tyler Kroft active. 

 

In my mind, they need to try and have a wide body possession-type option for Josh.    The TEs on the roster aren't providing that, so I want Williams to try. 

 

What the hell do the Bills have to lose, anyway.    We're getting virtually no production from WR3, WR4 or WR5.   If Williams can't cut it, it would be just like what we've gotten from this wide receiver group the last few weeks anyway.

 

And, if nothing else, Duke would be a better blocker in the run game than those smurfs...

 

 

[Spiderweb]

14 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

In my mind, they need to try and have a wide body possession-type option for Josh.    The TEs on the roster aren't providing that, so I want Williams to try. 

 

What the hell do the Bills have to lose, anyway.    We're getting virtually no production from WR3, WR4 or WR5.   If Williams can't cut it, it would be just like what we've gotten from this wide receiver group the last few weeks anyway.

 

And, if nothing else, Duke would be a better blocker in the run game than those smurfs...

 

 

 

The big body could have helped on the last gasp slant route run by Brown and I'm not a McKenzie fan at all. Give Williams the role.

 

18 hours ago, tannins said:

Dropson Knox 

 

Beasley should have caught that deep ball. One of Allen's few good deep balls this year.

[T master]

Just foolishness plain & simple ! You need a big bodied receiver that will catch the ball no matter where it is as long as it is in his radius & he has proven it & you say it's because you need speed rather than that  .

 

I bet the dude was dying sitting on the side line knowing he could make a difference & couldn't help his team not to mention the first team that gives him a chance to start he will be gone so fast McD & Beane will see just how fast he is & given the need of a receiver in N.E. he will go there & Brady will stick it up our A** with him as the means to do so !! 

[Reed83HOF]

Duke Williams says we need a WR#1
 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Reed83HOF

[Dopey]

1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said:

Duke Williams says we need a WR#1
 

 

How do you read his 2 tweets?

What do you make of them?

Edited December 9, 2019 by Dopey

[Reed83HOF]

7 minutes ago, Dopey said:

How do you read his 2 tweets?

What do you make of them?

***** they didn't copy in correctly....

I will edit

 

Edit:

 

It is correct now

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Reed83HOF

[colin]

18 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Duke Williams and Yeldon should both be active. But instead we are dressing guys like Senorise Perry that you couldn’t even find on the telecast. Then you have Frank Gore who is taking touches away from Singletary and looks like he’s running with an air conditioner tied to his cleats. This team is desperate for play makers and we are sitting guys that are capable of making big plays on offense. Very frustrating. 

 

 

you are forgetting lee smith, who can either miss a block or get a penalty like no one's biz.

[todzilla]

People act like you can just throw it near Duke and he will go get it. Throwing 50/50 balls to a tall WR requires pinpoint accuracy. It has to be high where only he can get it but not sail over his head. Josh has certainly not shown pinpoint accuracy consistently. He has meshed with receivers that get separation. He caught an important TD vs the Titans, but barely was targeted in the 2.5 games he played in. To say he played very well is a stretch. But if they want to activate him, I would sit Roberts and not Isiah. 

[BillsfanAZ]

55 minutes ago, T master said:

Just foolishness plain & simple ! You need a big bodied receiver that will catch the ball no matter where it is as long as it is in his radius & he has proven it & you say it's because you need speed rather than that  .

 

I bet the dude was dying sitting on the side line knowing he could make a difference & couldn't help his team not to mention the first team that gives him a chance to start he will be gone so fast McD & Beane will see just how fast he is & given the need of a receiver in N.E. he will go there & Brady will stick it up our A** with him as the means to do so !! 

You would think the Bills have a legit #1 WR they are hiding on the inactive list. How do you know Duke will make a difference at all? The coaches see him every day and you have seen him play a couple times. 

[Rocbillsfan1]

52 minutes ago, BillsfanAZ said:

You would think the Bills have a legit #1 WR they are hiding on the inactive list. How do you know Duke will make a difference at all? The coaches see him every day and you have seen him play a couple times. 

But but the coaches lol. Holy crap people use your brains. I don’t have the time to post all the clips of John brown also not getting any separation when teams have played press coverage and Allen was forced to throw a quick slant to him. Multiple times this play has failed. 

 

1 hour ago, todzilla said:

People act like you can just throw it near Duke and he will go get it. Throwing 50/50 balls to a tall WR requires pinpoint accuracy. It has to be high where only he can get it but not sail over his head. Josh has certainly not shown pinpoint accuracy consistently. He has meshed with receivers that get separation. He caught an important TD vs the Titans, but barely was targeted in the 2.5 games he played in. To say he played very well is a stretch. But if they want to activate him, I would sit Roberts and not Isiah. 

Just throw a freaking slant guy, duke has a much bigger window to throw to then John brown. They aren’t the same type of receiver. John brown has been great at running routes when he is given time and mostly against a zone and is wide open. Most of these throws resulted in 0 yac. That Dallas touchdown was the most yac he’s had al year and again it was because he slipped behind the defender in zone coverage. Just watch the duke td again that’s the play we needed him for. No one is saying he is a wr 1. He’s a situational player that should be a red zone target that’s it. Stop throwing it to John brown who has no window because he is small and has trouble  playing physical. Check the tape.

[T master]

2 hours ago, BillsfanAZ said:

You would think the Bills have a legit #1 WR they are hiding on the inactive list. How do you know Duke will make a difference at all? The coaches see him every day and you have seen him play a couple times. 

 

How will you ever find out when he's sitting on the bench ? Given his one chance to play in a game he came up huge & caught the game winning TD just saying ! 

 

Some guys play bigger in games & he's had really good history, he's led a entire league in receptions along with yards sure it wasn't the NFL but if there is another legit league that's even close the CFL would be it . And again he can't prove a thing on the bench .

 

Not to mention his college days . Match that with being thrown aside because of some stupid mistakes his desire probably out weighs a lot of players & your not going to find out how he would be at game speed by sitting him on the bench that's all i'm saying . 

 

Yes i personally think he is like another Boldin maybe not huge speed guy as far as with a watch on him but come game time i feel he would be one of those go to guys that play faster & is real dependable in the clutch i don't know why i just do ...

 

At least play him until he proves them wrong then sit him on the bench . Some guys just have that it factor & i think he does . 

Edited December 9, 2019 by T master

[GregPersons]

To me this is a question of who would you rather have had active on Sunday? Based on what you've seen this year. Tyler Kroft (5 games) or Duke Williams (1 game)?

 

Who would you rather running across the middle when you need a TD? Why would anyone say Kroft?

 

[Braedenstearns]

Has anyone ever asked in a press conference or a call why they don’t use duke or yeldon?

[Kiva]

Duke Williams is not an NFL caliber WR. He was brought up for potential and hit his ceiling.
 

Look for him to be released this offseason.