Defending our decision to draft Josh ?? really

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

Do you all think it was a  mistake for Bears to take Trubisky? If not, then it wasn't a "mistake" for the Bills to pass on Mahomes, Watson, Jackson. 

 

Think about how you feel about the Trubisky pick for a more unbiased opinion. 

Just now, Dante said:

Like has happened to all running QB's in the past. They have early success and everyone goes crazy over them. They all either get figured out and have to become a qb instead of a rb or they get injured. Even Cam failed when he had to be a qb. Long term I will take Josh every time. More of a Favre/Rodgers type not a Kordell Stewart. 

Josh isn't a running Quarterback? Lamar doesn't have the most passing TDs in the league?

[CorkScrewHill]

3 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

clutchpoints.com???? Clutchpoints.com??? 

That’s it I will never go to that site again .. I am sticking with guyinhismomsbasementNFLcommentary.com .. you can trust them

[Putin]

14 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Big difference between running because your not making your reads or not throwing a pass that you should and designed runs. Lets not get confused. Lamar Jackson is running designed runs and making reads throwing the ball. Josh last year was having a hard time and relying on his athletic ability. 

Last year Josh had to make the best of what he had / to work with , 

what about all this talk about 

ITS THE PASSING LEAGUE ??

so we all agree that you can still win in this league by running the ball WELL and playing good defense ? 

 

 

[Dante]

2 minutes ago, Chemical said:

Do you all think it was a  mistake for Bears to take Trubisky? If not, then it wasn't a "mistake" for the Bills to pass on Mahomes, Watson, Jackson. 

 

Think about how you feel about the Trubisky pick for a more unbiased opinion. 

Josh isn't a running Quarterback? Lamar doesn't have the most passing TDs in the league?

I don't think Josh is.He is a qb that can run if needed. Lamar's is a rb first qb second that runs a college offense. He get's 100 yds passing a game. When the primary threat of his run game gets controlled we will see how good a qb he really is. I mean, it's all personal taste. I never have like running qbs because they simply don't win. I will take a field general that distributes the ball within a system every time. 

[ROCBillsBeliever]

3 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

clutchpoints.com???? Clutchpoints.com??? 

 

Yeah, I hear they're a website that makes clutch points... ?

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

Just now, Dante said:

I don't think Josh is.He is a qb that can run if needed. Lamar's is a rb first qb second that runs a college offense. He get's 100 yds passing a game. When the primary threat of his run game gets controlled we will see how good a qb he really is. I mean, it's all personal taste. I never have like running qbs because they simply don't win. I will take a field general that distributes the ball within a system every time. 

 

Yeah, in a rainstorm, in a win. Funny how when Josh gets criticized for poor play or low production in a win you and others will point to the scoreboard or Bills record. Try and be consistent in your analysis.

 

You conveniently skipped over my comment about Lamar leading the league in pass TD. How do you fit that into your skewed homer view ?

[Logic]

Somebody named Christian Alamodis from something called Clutchpoints.com? 

Pardon me, but why should I give a hoot?

[Dante]

1 minute ago, Chemical said:

 

Yeah, in a rainstorm, in a win. Funny how when Josh gets criticized for poor play or low production in a win you and others will point to the scoreboard or Bills record. Try and be consistent in your analysis.

 

You conveniently skipped over my comment about Lamar leading the league in pass TD. How do you fit that into your skewed homer view ?

Not a homer. Thread just happens to be about Josh. It could be about Mahommes, hell Kirk Cousins,  I would say the same thing. It's great Lamar has the most td's. I feel, imho, that he won't be able to sustain once the college rpo game is solved and by next season it will be. Just like every other running qb base offense has been before it. That's all. I get it. It's hard to argue with results today but I still would never trade Josh for him considering long term. 

[John from Riverside]

As long as all those teams ahead of us that drafted Mayfield and Darnold also have to defend "their choices"

 

We on the other hand....actually like our quarterback so I am not sure what we should be defending

[tcampbell104]

i think this guys site comes from his mothers basement

[ngbills]

32 minutes ago, Putin said:

Last year Josh had to make the best of what he had / to work with , 

what about all this talk about 

ITS THE PASSING LEAGUE ??

so we all agree that you can still win in this league by running the ball WELL and playing good defense ? 

 

 

Have you played QB or coached QB's? Josh last year was clearly a QB having trouble with the speed of the game. Luckily for Josh he is a tremendous athlete which helped offset that to some degree. The point is that is not desirable and not going to lead to long term success. Hence this year he is much improved on and his running numbers are down. Lamar has success running the ball by design. There is no desire for him to run less because he is ditching the pocket. Two different things. 

 

You can win with a balanced attack and good defense. At some point you will need to throw the ball. 

[reddogblitz]

3 hours ago, BuffaloSol said:

Unless we had Roman as OC Lamar would not look like he does with Baltimore. 

 

Lamar is a better passer and a better runner than Josh.  Why couldn't Lamar run our offense?

 

Lamar throws at a higher completion percentage and QB rate than Josh and has thrown 9 more TDs and 3 less picks than Josh.

 

Lamar's not just a great running QB, he is also an excellent passer.  He passes on average 28 times per game at a high level.

 

Personally I would trade Josh for any of the other 3 we passed on, Mahommes, Watson, or Lamar.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Cyber Bill ® said:

with a Jim Mora voiceover...?

BTW... Does anyone where TT is? ... seriously... ?

 

Serious question?  About to become San Diego Chargers starting QB, I'd say.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

32 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

Lamar is a better passer and a better runner than Josh.  Why couldn't Lamar run our offense?

Lamar throws at a higher completion percentage and QB rate than Josh and has thrown 9 more TDs and 3 less picks than Josh.

Lamar's not just a great running QB, he is also an excellent passer.  He passes on average 28 times per game at a high level.

Personally I would trade Josh for any of the other 3 we passed on, Mahommes, Watson, or Lamar.

 

Are you seriously asking these questions?

 

Look again at how Lamar did at the end of last season in Baltimore, running an offense that was not designed for him.

 

Yes, Lamar is a better runner than Josh.  Far better.  As his own LT said "in my opinion he's a generational talent as a runner"

 

Yes, Lamar has a good arm and can pass well, but he's doing it in the context of the offense installed for him.   Last year, when he was plugged into a conventional offense, he had a similar completion percentage and averaged 75 YPG.  Would he succeed eventually in that system, yes, I believe he would, but he wouldn't be leading the MVP convo this year.

 

It wouldn't have been a wrong decision to draft any of the three you mention, but Lamar in particular at this point is producing the performance he is producing in a specific system.  Don't have that system, don't expect the same results.

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Josh Allen is perfect for the city of Buffalo and the Buffalo Bills. I am very happy that he is our QB.

 

This.

[StHustle]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Lamar is a better passer and a better runner than Josh.  Why couldn't Lamar run our offense?

 

Lamar throws at a higher completion percentage and QB rate than Josh and has thrown 9 more TDs and 3 less picks than Josh.

 

Lamar's not just a great running QB, he is also an excellent passer.  He passes on average 28 times per game at a high level.

 

Personally I would trade Josh for any of the other 3 we passed on, Mahommes, Watson, or Lamar.

 

Most Bills fans are just happy we didnt pick a bust like Rosen or someone. To say you wish we picked anyone else would almost come off as unappreciative of what we have and after so many failed attempts at replacing Jim Kelly, not many of us want to be unappreciative. I mean we sit here in early December with a realistic shot at the Division and a 97% chance to make the playoffs. This is the best situation we've been in in over 20 years.  We arent about to sit back and complain about our QB.

 

Now with that said, there are many who, in a redraft, would still pick Josh over Lamar simply because they  don't prefer his HEAVY running style and think he wont have longevity, which history has proven the odds are in that favor. Anyone who, with a do-over, would still trade that pick to KC and not select Mahomes, is being plain foolish. However, it's not foolish to refuse to admit it. There is simply no point in discussing such hypotheticals. We selected Josh to be the guy, he is a winner with plenty room to grow and we are happy.

Edited December 5, 2019 by StHustle

[Buffalo Barbarian]

5 hours ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

WARNING: One user below claims this website attempted to install Malware on his computer.  Click the link below at your OWN RISK

 

https://clutchpoints.com/sean-mcdermott-defends-bills-picking-josh-allen-over-lamar-jackson/

 

On the topic of anyone and everyone who can write a horrible article these days 

 

 So now we have to defend our choice for passing on Lamar?

 

"A glaring error of not picking Lamar hangs above our heads"

 

Sorry I don't even think twice about having Lamar instead of Josh. I think both QB's are where they are supposed to be. 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't even think about Lamar, Josh is our QB and will be long after Jackson is done.

 

 

[Troll Toll]

Between Allen, Mahomes, Lamar, and Deshaun... Josh is by far the most intelligent. You win over the long haul in the NFL with your brain. I have more confidence in Allen to figure out how to beat the cream of the crop defensive gameplans you see in the playoffs than the other guys.

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

5 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

Between Allen, Mahomes, Lamar, and Deshaun... Josh is by far the most intelligent. You win over the long haul in the NFL with your brain. I have more confidence in Allen to figure out how to beat the cream of the crop defensive gameplans you see in the playoffs than the other guys.

Agreed. While Allen is far from where he needs to be, all of his shortcomings are teachable. 

[ngbills]

16 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

Between Allen, Mahomes, Lamar, and Deshaun... Josh is by far the most intelligent. You win over the long haul in the NFL with your brain. I have more confidence in Allen to figure out how to beat the cream of the crop defensive gameplans you see in the playoffs than the other guys.

How can you say Josh is by far the most intelligent? Please dont say his wonderlic score. 

[muppy]

5 hours ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

WARNING: One user below claims this website attempted to install Malware on his computer.  Click the link below at your OWN RISK

 

https://clutchpoints.com/sean-mcdermott-defends-bills-picking-josh-allen-over-lamar-jackson/

 

On the topic of anyone and everyone who can write a horrible article these days 

 

 So now we have to defend our choice for passing on Lamar?

 

"A glaring error of not picking Lamar hangs above our heads"

 

Sorry I don't even think twice about having Lamar instead of Josh. I think both QB's are where they are supposed to be. 

 

 

 

 

These woulda coulda shoulda articles are so lame. Not even God can change what has already happened so what is the use of belaboring it. Each and every draft pick is a potential treasure or bust there are no guarantees and besides that the supporting cast scheme and coaching all play a part. 20-20 hindsight can be helpful with some things but not when discussing draft picks it’s not fruitful or helpful to me it’s trolling whining and lame

[reddogblitz]

58 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

It wouldn't have been a wrong decision to draft any of the three you mention, but Lamar in particular at this point is producing the performance he is producing in a specific system. 

 

I see your point, but what QB drafted in 2018 is not producing the performance they are producing in a specific system?  Surely not Josh Allen.  Really any QBs.  Tommy, Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre are all like that.   You wouldn't put them in some other system they aren't suited to.  That's the goal, get a really good QB and build an offense around him that suits his strengths. 

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, StHustle said:

To say you wish we picked anyone else would almost come off as unappreciative of what we have and after so many failed attempts at replacing Jim Kelly, not many of us want to be unappreciative.

 

I am not unappreciative.  I think Josh is doing a bang up job and am enjoying the winning.  Keep up the good work.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with appreciating Josh and what he has done so far and also thinking maybe some of the other young QBs are better. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Troll Toll said:

Between Allen, Mahomes, Lamar, and Deshaun... Josh is by far the most intelligent. You win over the long haul in the NFL with your brain. I have more confidence in Allen to figure out how to beat the cream of the crop defensive gameplans you see in the playoffs than the other guys.

 

I'd like to believe that because it's to our teams favor, but I'm not sure how you get there - especially with regards to football smarts, which is the relevant parameter on the field.

 

[BuffaloSol]

43 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Lamar is a better passer and a better runner than Josh.  Why couldn't Lamar run our offense?

 

Lamar throws at a higher completion percentage and QB rate than Josh and has thrown 9 more TDs and 3 less picks than Josh.

 

Lamar's not just a great running QB, he is also an excellent passer.  He passes on average 28 times per game at a high level.

 

Personally I would trade Josh for any of the other 3 we passed on, Mahommes, Watson, or Lamar.

Sorry, I disagree on that Lamar is a better passer, better running back yes, elite in fact.

 

People are scared to say it because of "racial things," but when QB's have relied that much on running the ball they have not lasted.

 

I think the Russel Wilson, DeShawn Watson, Josh Allen approach is a much better, sustainable route 400-700 yds a year.

 

You can disagree but it doesn't make me wrong.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

I see your point, but what QB drafted in 2018 is not producing the performance they are producing in a specific system?  Surely not Josh Allen.  Really any QBs.  Tommy, Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre are all like that.   You wouldn't put them in some other system they aren't suited to.  That's the goal, get a really good QB and build an offense around him that suits his strengths. 

 

I disagree.  Certainly every good team optimizes their offense to favor what their QB does well and minimize what he does less well.   Peyton Manning, Brett Favre are inarguable because they both had success with multiple OCs for multiple teams.  Brees, too, had 2 successful years in San Diego before moving to New Orleans.

 

But I think that's a "missing the forest" assessment.  The forest is that by everyone's account, the offense the Ravens are running is very different than a standard NFL offense.  It's very much a college-style offense.    A standard "decode the pass defense, pass from the pocket" NFL pro-style offense is very different, even if it includes some RPO concepts.  This is a point the Bills coaches and players have made over and over.   Jered Mayo, the former LB now coaching LBs for the Pats, outright called Jackson "a running back who can throw".  That's clearly selling Jackson short and would probably get a media member smacked, but there is some truth in it.

 

I think if you sent Josh Allen to KC or Houston, or brought Mahomes or Watson here, after a little bit of tweaking they'd all play well.    I think Jackson would eventually succeed because I think he's a driven, hardworking player, but I think it wouldn't look pretty at first.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, BuffaloSol said:

Sorry, I disagree on that Lamar is a better passer, better running back yes, elite in fact.

People are scared to say it because of "racial things," but when QB's have relied that much on running the ball they have not lasted.

I think the Russel Wilson, DeShawn Watson, Josh Allen approach is a much better, sustainable route 400-700 yds a year.

You can disagree but it doesn't make me wrong.

 

Russell Wilson started out as more of a "game manager" QB who threw for 200-ish ypg and ran 6-7x per game.  His best rushing season he hit 7 ypa.

Then he became more of a passing QB, leveling up to 250-ish ypg and backing off a skootch on the rushes.

 

Jackson is running 12x per game for 7 ypa.  That's top-10 RB in the league for yardage, but it's #21 in the league for rush attempts - right next to 36 year old Frank Gore and 35 year old Adrian Peterson.  So clearly some guys who run the ball that much and more can last.

 

I don't know the answer.  I think you and others who worry that Jackson's style is not sustainable may have a point.  But on the other side....how many QB who don't run nearly so much have been knocked out by injury?  Luck, Bradford, Bridgewater (in practice), Wentz - the first two being classic pocket passers. 

 

I think there's something to be said for the concept that the worst guy in the world to be is a relatively immobile QB behind a crap OL, and that the more athleticism a QB has as a rusher, the less likely he is to get hurt. 

 

And the refs right now seem very intent on protecting Jackson.

 

So we'll see.

[StHustle]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I am not unappreciative.  I think Josh is doing a bang up job and am enjoying the winning.  Keep up the good work.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with appreciating Josh and what he has done so far and also thinking maybe some of the other young QBs are better. 

 

Thinking another young QB is better is one thing. Voicing a complaint that we should have drafted them instead, is another. Would our team be in better shape RIGHT NOW had we stayed put, drafted Lamar, kept our two 2nd round picks, and hired Roman instead of Daboll. OBVIOUSLY.  If Beane's hindsight were foresight we'd win the superbowl every year from now on. Often times you won't make the best possible choice when you look back. But as long as the choice you did make works well, be happy and move forward with no regrets.

 

If you make one gamble and win $100k, should you really complain because you didnt make a different gamble that could have won you $200k? Especially looking at how many others CRAPPED OUT and even remembering how many gambles youve lost yourself in the past? I LOVED Jackson coming out. I also knew drafting him early would be a gamble as he had a pretty good bust probability. I actually thought Josh had a larger bust probability so I wasnt happy with the pick. However, our GM believed in Josh and made a decisive decision that so far looks like a very solid move. Drafting any QB, Josh and Lamar moreso imo, is a GAMBLE. Lets just be happy so far it looks like a win for the franchise.

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, BuffaloSol said:

Sorry, I disagree on that Lamar is a better passer, better running back yes, elite in fact.

 

People are scared to say it because of "racial things," but when QB's have relied that much on running the ball they have not lasted.

 

I think the Russel Wilson, DeShawn Watson, Josh Allen approach is a much better, sustainable route 400-700 yds a year.

 

You can disagree but it doesn't make me wrong.

 

I think Lamar is a better passer but if you don't think so that's fine.

 

Over the past 50 years in the NFL QBs have come into the league deciding to run the football more and they do with success.  Randall Cunningham, Roger Staubach, Michael Vick, and Donovan McNabb to name a few.  After they get knocked around a few years they decide that pocket passing is not such a bad thing after all. Michael Vick is the exception.

 

The good ones are able to make the transition. Randall Cunningham got his team to the NFC Championship as a pocket passer for example.

 

I think Lamar can do the same thing. I think he's a good enough passer to pull it off.  Same goes for Watson.  Time will tell.

Edited December 5, 2019 by reddogblitz

[BuffaloSol]

21 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I think Lamar is a better passer but if you don't think so that's fine.

 

Over the past 50 years in the NFL QBs have come into the league deciding to run the football more and they do with success.  Randall Cunningham, Roger Staubach, Michael Vick, and Donovan McNabb to name a few.  After they get knocked around a few years they decide that pocket passing is not such a bad thing after all. Michael Vick is the exception.

 

The good ones are able to make the transition. Randall Cunningham got his team to the NFC Championship as a pocket passer for example.

 

I think Lamar can do the same thing. I think he's a good enough passer to pull it off.  Same goes for Watson.  Time will tell.

Watson is not like Lamar though & you only named a few because there is only a few that were successful in fact most of the ones names are not like Lamar.

 

Vick is really the only one similar, I'm not saying he can't do it but I am saying it doesn't happen often & Lamar as just a passer relies a lot on how good of a runner he is.

 

Watson, McNabb, Wilson, Allen are similar qb's.

[reddogblitz]

2 hours ago, BuffaloSol said:

Watson is not like Lamar though & you only named a few because there is only a few that were successful in fact most of the ones names are not like Lamar.

 

Vick is really the only one similar, I'm not saying he can't do it but I am saying it doesn't happen often & Lamar as just a passer relies a lot on how good of a runner he is.

 

Watson, McNabb, Wilson, Allen are similar qb's.

 

I don't know.  Lamar is a very accurate passer hitting guys in tight windows on the money regularly. Not sure how being able to run the football helps with the accuracy. 

 

How do you think it does? 

 

I don't see the correlation.

[BuffaloSol]

15 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I don't know.  Lamar is a very accurate passer hitting guys in tight windows on the money regularly. Not sure how being able to run the football helps with the accuracy. 

 

How do you think it does? 

 

I don't see the correlation.

It's pretty simple how it helps with accuracy, it opens up players down field when they have to cover an elite RB at the QB position. I'm not sure how throwing dump offs to rb's and tes is being very accurate in tight windows. I watched the whole san fran game, he is really good but can it last?

[reddogblitz]

52 minutes ago, BuffaloSol said:

It's pretty simple how it helps with accuracy, it opens up players down field when they have to cover an elite RB at the QB position. I'm not sure how throwing dump offs to rb's and tes is being very accurate in tight windows. I watched the whole san fran game, he is really good but can it last?

 

I didn't see that game so can't say on that one.  But if a guys open, you still gotta be accurate to put it on his hands I guess is my point.

[benderbender]

The most annoying thing about that draft was hearing so many different sites mention Josh Allen as the presumptive number 1 quarterback to be taken. Then a few days out, it leaked that someone was taking Baker Mayfield first and suddenly Allen was universally panned as a good selection. Seemingly overnight our pick went from brilliant to meh. I did see many sites predicting we take Jackson based mostly on our Tyrod history.