Let Josh be Josh?

[BuffaloHokie13]

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

All screens pretty much.

If only we could've remotely stopped them...

[jrober38]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

He is Being Coached into a Game Manager.  Who would have thought that would happen from an Ultra Conservative Defensive minded HC.

 

You traded up to 7th overall to get him, to what coach into him to be a Game Manager?

 

I think he's being coached into not being reckless with the football.

 

Turnovers have been a problem with Allen in addition to the fact he doesn't generate many big plays in the pass game (he hasn't hit a deep ball all season). 

 

The risk/reward of turning him loose suggests pretty heavily that he'll turn into a turnover machine without enough big plays to offset the mistakes. 

[dorquemada]

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

All screens pretty much.

 

It's a terrible shame that the Bills are prohibited from ever throwing screen passes, it would be a real boon to this O, and would fit the players we have so well.  The good news is the 11 TE set is really looking ready to take the next step

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

If only we could've remotely stopped them...

Exactly my point. Anyone blaming the QB for the loss wasn't watching or is an idiot or both.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

25 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

We should care about how Allen compares to every starting NFL Quarterback. Not just the ones drafted ahead of him in 2018.

 

Silly.

And yet...the most effective measuring stick to evaluate the growth curve of a (very) young/green QB would be his actual class of peers coming out the same year. For Kelly, that was Marino/Elway et al. 1983. For Rivers, it would be Big Ben, Eli, and so on. How exactly would that comparative approach be considered "Silly?" Silly would be trying to compare Josh this year to say, Tom Brady, draft class 2000, in his 19th year, no? 

 

So again, are you willing to also call Darnold a bust? Mayfield? Rosen?  

[oldmanfan]

Just now, dorquemada said:

 

It's a terrible shame that the Bills are prohibited from ever throwing screen passes, it would be a real boon to this O, and would fit the players we have so well.  The good news is the 11 TE set is really looking ready to take the next step

Not sure our O line is quick enough to get out in front to block

[Royale with Cheese]

10 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

The reason Frank Gore is getting 40% in the box is because when they run they are out of the 2 TE Set, and all the Big Guys piled into the middle.  

 

The Bills aren't the only team to run 2 Tight End sets a lot Bobby.

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, dorquemada said:

 

It's a terrible shame that the Bills are prohibited from ever throwing screen passes, it would be a real boon to this O, and would fit the players we have so well.  The good news is the 11 TE set is really looking ready to take the next step

 

Must be the QB's fault, according to some. Daboll has gone from mediocre to bad.

 

[JoPar_v2]

6 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

All screens pretty much.

Yes. The longest throw I remember Wentz completing was the sideline throw to Alshon when he roasted Wallace. That’s about it.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, JoPar_v2 said:

Yes. The longest throw I remember Wentz completing was the sideline throw to Alshon when he roasted Wallace. That’s about it.

 

Small fact my good buddy mango left out 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You're all about "trends", especially when it's going down and Lee Smith's snaps have been going down.....

So you're going to be firm that it has nothing to do with Allen being able to beat teams over the top....50% is Lee Smith and the other 50% is Knox?

https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html

 

So 11 personnel (1RB, 1TE, 3WR)

49% Run

59% Success Rate

74 Attempts

 

12 personnel (1RB, 2 TE, 2WRs)

54% run

48% success

29 Runs

 

21 Personnel (2RB, 1 TE, 2 WRs)

40% Run

42% Success

19 runs

 

22 Personnel (2RB, 2TE, 1 WR)

95% Run

9% Success

18 Runs

 

10 Personnel (1 RB, 4 WRs)

50% Run

100% Success

2 Runs

 

13 Personnel (1RB, 3TEs, 1WR)

84% Run

50% Success

16 Runs

 

 

So again their Best Run formation is 3 WR.  They start bringing in the Big guys their Run Success goes down. 

 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The Bills aren't the only team to run 2 Tight End sets a lot Bobby.

 

 

The Eagles actually do it a ton w/Goedert and Ertz...the difference being you can't just shove 8 in the box on defense because they're both terrific pass catchers as well as blockers. When the Bills run 2 TE sets they aren't nearly as multiple as Eagles are just owing to personnel.

[Bangarang]

16 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

So in response to the question about the player, you made a comment about the fans.

 

You can see why that's not as clear as you intended.

I know you’re trying really hard at some clever gotcha moment but it’s not working. 
 

The comment was about the fans being able to admit something about our QB. My response was pointing out how fans have been reluctant/refuse to admit when our QB was bad. I’m not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Bangarang

[dorquemada]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The Bills aren't the only team to run 2 Tight End sets a lot Bobby.

 

 

 

And with my innovative 11 TE set, a TE can throw a ball to another TE, with a couple TEs out in front to block.  it'll be unstoppable!  even dabol cant screw this up!

[Golden*Wheels]

22 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

 

Josh Allen is 9th in the league in "Intended Air Yards per Attempt" 

 

The issue isn't that we aren't trying. The issue is we aren't connecting on them. 

 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2019/all#average-intended-yards

 

 

I don't know how much I put into such a stat, but in 2019 he was #1 in the league for the same metric...in 2019 he is #11, behind a lot of QBs of varying ability.

 

Reading their glossary on the stat, it's truly intended, not completed. So not connecting shouldn't have his average IAY down two yards.

 

Again, for whatever IAY is worth.

[Wayne Arnold]

Just now, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

And yet...the most effective measuring stick to evaluate the growth curve of a (very) young/green QB would be his actual class of peers coming out the same year. For Kelly, that was Marino/Elway et al. 1983. For Rivers, it would be Big Ben, Eli, and so on. How exactly would that comparative approach be considered "Silly?" Silly would be trying to compare Josh this year to say, Tom Brady, draft class 2000, in his 19th year, no? 

 

So again, are you willing to also call Darnold a bust? Mayfield? Rosen?  

 

If I were a Browns or Jets fan I’m sure I’d be asking the same question. So what?

 

Are we allowed to compare Allen to MVP candidate Lamar Jackson? 

 

How about 6th rounder from this year’s draft Gardner Minshew who is currently 8th in the NFL in Adjusted Net Yards per Attempt (Allen is 25th).

[thebandit27]

Just now, Bangarang said:

I know you’re trying really hard at some clever gotcha moment but it’s not working. 
 

The comment was about the fans being able to admit something about our QB. My response was pointing out how fans have been when reluctant to admit when our QB was bad. I’m not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand.

 

Did I touch a nerve or something?

 

There's no "gotcha" here. 

 

Yes, the comment was about the fans being able to admit something about the QB. Is there some arena of life where we admit things that aren't accepted as true? Because otherwise the implication is pretty clear that what we're being asked to admit is true.

 

Was that too deep? Too offensive? I assume not. Either way I'll move on at this point.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

MVP candidate Lamar Jackson? 

 

 

Lol

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html

 

So 11 personnel (1RB, 1TE, 3WR)

49% Run

59% Success Rate

74 Attempts

 

12 personnel (1RB, 2 TE, 2WRs)

54% run

48% success

29 Runs

 

21 Personnel (2RB, 1 TE, 2 WRs)

40% Run

42% Success

19 runs

 

22 Personnel (2RB, 2TE, 1 WR)

95% Run

9% Success

18 Runs

 

10 Personnel (1 RB, 4 WRs)

50% Run

100% Success

2 Runs

 

13 Personnel (1RB, 3TEs, 1WR)

84% Run

50% Success

16 Runs

 

 

So again their Best Run formation is 3 WR.  They start bringing in the Big guys their Run Success goes down. 

 

 

The link isn't working and I'm sure this doesn't take context into consideration.

 

If it's 3rd and 17 and we are in a 3 WR set and the RB runs a 10 yarder...is this considered a "success"?

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The link isn't working and I'm sure this doesn't take context into consideration.

 

If it's 3rd and 17 and we are in a 3 WR set and the RB runs a 10 yarder...is this considered a "success"?

https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html

[Bangarang]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Did I touch a nerve or something?

 

There's no "gotcha" here. 

 

Yes, the comment was about the fans being able to admit something about the QB. Is there some arena of life where we admit things that aren't accepted as true? Because otherwise the implication is pretty clear that what we're being asked to admit is true.

 

Was that too deep? Too offensive? I assume not. Either way I'll move on at this point.

Seemed like you were looking for an argument that wasn’t there. Why else would you put words in my mouth? Regardless, this (whatever it is)has run its course. 

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

The Eagles actually do it a ton w/Goedert and Ertz...the difference being you can't just shove 8 in the box on defense because they're both terrific pass catchers as well as blockers. When the Bills run 2 TE sets they aren't nearly as multiple as Eagles are just owing to personnel.

 

Yeah I won't argue with this but Wentz has showed the ability this year to go deep, over the top deep and hit his WR.  Allen hasn't this year.  He did it last year...he needs to find it again.  We are a bad passing team...again.

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The link isn't working and I'm sure this doesn't take context into consideration.

 

If it's 3rd and 17 and we are in a 3 WR set and the RB runs a 10 yarder...is this considered a "success"?

 

I don't know about Sharpe football, but for Football Outsiders (for example), Success Rate takes into account down and distance 

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html

 

Still not working.

 

So again, a 3rd and 17 and we get 10 yards on a run...is that considered a "success"?

 

We can't run out of 3 WR sets most of the game.  We need to be able to be multiple.

Just now, thebandit27 said:

 

I don't know about Sharpe football, but for Football Outsiders (for example), Success Rate takes into account down and distance 

 

This argument is just going down a rabbit hole....

 

What are your thoughts on Allen's deep ball accuracy?

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Still not working.

 

So again, a 3rd and 17 and we get 10 yards on a run...is that considered a "success"?

 

We can't run out of 3 WR sets most of the game.  We need to be able to be multiple.

 

This argument is just going down a rabbit hole....

 

What are your thoughts on Allen's deep ball accuracy?

I am trying to find a place that tracks it real time.  I know last year his deep ball accuracy was 40%

 

keep the link.  it will work seems the site is down right now

Edited October 28, 2019 by MAJBobby

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Still not working.

 

So again, a 3rd and 17 and we get 10 yards on a run...is that considered a "success"?

 

We can't run out of 3 WR sets most of the game.  We need to be able to be multiple.

 

This argument is just going down a rabbit hole....

 

What are your thoughts on Allen's deep ball accuracy?

 

Looks like he's trying way too hard to put air under the ball and needs to just let it rip.

[jrober38]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yeah I won't argue with this but Wentz has showed the ability this year to go deep, over the top deep and hit his WR.  Allen hasn't this year.  He did it last year...he needs to find it again.  We are a bad passing team...again.

 

The Bills are a bad passing team because their quarterback isn't a very good passer. He's still 28th in QB Rating. 

 

He's a decent field general, but in no way is Josh Allen someone you want dropping back 40+ times a game. 

[Wayne Arnold]

9 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Lol

 

I must have missed the joke.

[Freddie's Dead]

We are.  Rumblin', Bumblin', Stumblin', all of it.  Daboll gave Josh the rock 42 times yesterday, compared to just 12 for Frank and Motor (and don't give me the game was out of hand crap, we were only down 11 until that last Iggles TD).  How are we not letting Josh be Josh?

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

The Bills are a bad passing team because their quarterback isn't a very good passer. He's still 28th in QB Rating. 

 

He's a decent field general, but in no way is Josh Allen someone you want dropping back 40+ times a game. 

 

I'm not giving up on him but at the same time, I think it's safe to say that he isn't where we need or want him to be at this point.

[row_33]

2 hours ago, ILBillsfan said:

I see a young quarterback that isn’t 100% in trusting his reads and is hesitant at times for fear of the turnover

 

he is still young and learning some patience and growing pains w a young quarterback that in today’s nfl seem to be non existent anymore

 

he won't be learning much longer taking a dozen needless shots a game when he takes off before letting the play develop

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

I must have missed the joke.

 

Jackson has 11 passing TD on the year. 5 of those came in Miami, meaning he's averaging less than a td passing per game, since.

 

Your entire post was the joke, Wayne.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Joe in Winslow

[jrober38]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I'm not giving up on him but at the same time, I think it's safe to say that he isn't where we need or want him to be at this point.

 

Agreed.

 

Josh isn't terrible, and he's probably a guy who can win 7-9 games each year because he seems to do well late in games and can do enough to beat bad teams, but there's nothing so far that suggests he's ever going to exist in the upper echelon of NFL QBs. There are still way too many simple mistakes. 

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

1 hour ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Josh is wildly inaccurate.  The deep ball completion % is what this year, 0%?  

And yet, heading into this week he was the MOST accurate passer inside 20 yards. So he's wildly accurate too. 

That's just wild...

[Dablitzkrieg]

1 minute ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

And yet, heading into this week he was the MOST accurate passer inside 20 yards. So he's wildly accurate too. 

That's just wild...

Did you just learn a new word?

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

1 minute ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Did you just learn a new word?

Yes, I'm wildly in love with the word wild. 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Bob Chandler's Hands

[dorquemada]

6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Agreed.

 

Josh isn't terrible, and he's probably a guy who can win 7-9 games each year because he seems to do well late in games and can do enough to beat bad teams, but there's nothing so far that suggests he's ever going to exist in the upper echelon of NFL QBs. There are still way too many simple mistakes. 

 

I hate that you're right about this.  I'm not sold on any of the QBs of that class either.

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

He is Being Coached into a Game Manager.  Who would have thought that would happen from an Ultra Conservative Defensive minded HC.

 

You traded up to 7th overall to get him, to what coach into him to be a Game Manager?

This is my pet peeve too. WTF are they doing to him. Timid legs, thinking too much, conservative shots.  I want some run and gun. The kid has skills which shouldn't be put into a box.

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Agreed.

 

Josh isn't terrible, and he's probably a guy who can win 7-9 games each year because he seems to do well late in games and can do enough to beat bad teams, but there's nothing so far that suggests he's ever going to exist in the upper echelon of NFL QBs. There are still way too many simple mistakes. 

 

We drafted and traded up for him to not be a bottom 1/3 NFL passing team.  And that's where we are at.

I won't mind the turnovers if he does more good/positive plays.

 

He's compared to Farve a lot because of "gunslinger".  Yeah Farve made a lot of dumb decisions and threw a lot of INT's but you can live with that if they also make a lot of positive plays.  Right now there isn't enough good from Josh to overcome the bad.

[Dablitzkrieg]

1 minute ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

Yes, I'm wildly in love with the word wild. 

Freak?