BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: All screens pretty much. If only we could've remotely stopped them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 hour ago, MAJBobby said: He is Being Coached into a Game Manager. Who would have thought that would happen from an Ultra Conservative Defensive minded HC.  You traded up to 7th overall to get him, to what coach into him to be a Game Manager?  I think he's being coached into not being reckless with the football.  Turnovers have been a problem with Allen in addition to the fact he doesn't generate many big plays in the pass game (he hasn't hit a deep ball all season).  The risk/reward of turning him loose suggests pretty heavily that he'll turn into a turnover machine without enough big plays to offset the mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorquemada Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:  All screens pretty much.  It's a terrible shame that the Bills are prohibited from ever throwing screen passes, it would be a real boon to this O, and would fit the players we have so well. The good news is the 11 TE set is really looking ready to take the next step Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said: If only we could've remotely stopped them... Exactly my point. Anyone blaming the QB for the loss wasn't watching or is an idiot or both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 25 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:  We should care about how Allen compares to every starting NFL Quarterback. Not just the ones drafted ahead of him in 2018.  Silly. And yet...the most effective measuring stick to evaluate the growth curve of a (very) young/green QB would be his actual class of peers coming out the same year. For Kelly, that was Marino/Elway et al. 1983. For Rivers, it would be Big Ben, Eli, and so on. How exactly would that comparative approach be considered "Silly?" Silly would be trying to compare Josh this year to say, Tom Brady, draft class 2000, in his 19th year, no?  So again, are you willing to also call Darnold a bust? Mayfield? Rosen?  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, dorquemada said:  It's a terrible shame that the Bills are prohibited from ever throwing screen passes, it would be a real boon to this O, and would fit the players we have so well. The good news is the 11 TE set is really looking ready to take the next step Not sure our O line is quick enough to get out in front to block Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: The reason Frank Gore is getting 40% in the box is because when they run they are out of the 2 TE Set, and all the Big Guys piled into the middle.   The Bills aren't the only team to run 2 Tight End sets a lot Bobby.   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, dorquemada said:  It's a terrible shame that the Bills are prohibited from ever throwing screen passes, it would be a real boon to this O, and would fit the players we have so well. The good news is the 11 TE set is really looking ready to take the next step  Must be the QB's fault, according to some. Daboll has gone from mediocre to bad.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:  All screens pretty much. Yes. The longest throw I remember Wentz completing was the sideline throw to Alshon when he roasted Wallace. That’s about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, JoPar_v2 said: Yes. The longest throw I remember Wentz completing was the sideline throw to Alshon when he roasted Wallace. That’s about it.  Small fact my good buddy mango left out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, Royale with Cheese said:  You're all about "trends", especially when it's going down and Lee Smith's snaps have been going down..... So you're going to be firm that it has nothing to do with Allen being able to beat teams over the top....50% is Lee Smith and the other 50% is Knox? https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html  So 11 personnel (1RB, 1TE, 3WR) 49% Run 59% Success Rate 74 Attempts  12 personnel (1RB, 2 TE, 2WRs) 54% run 48% success 29 Runs  21 Personnel (2RB, 1 TE, 2 WRs) 40% Run 42% Success 19 runs  22 Personnel (2RB, 2TE, 1 WR) 95% Run 9% Success 18 Runs  10 Personnel (1 RB, 4 WRs) 50% Run 100% Success 2 Runs  13 Personnel (1RB, 3TEs, 1WR) 84% Run 50% Success 16 Runs   So again their Best Run formation is 3 WR. They start bringing in the Big guys their Run Success goes down.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said: Â The Bills aren't the only team to run 2 Tight End sets a lot Bobby. Â Â The Eagles actually do it a ton w/Goedert and Ertz...the difference being you can't just shove 8 in the box on defense because they're both terrific pass catchers as well as blockers. When the Bills run 2 TE sets they aren't nearly as multiple as Eagles are just owing to personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:  So in response to the question about the player, you made a comment about the fans.  You can see why that's not as clear as you intended. I know you’re trying really hard at some clever gotcha moment but it’s not working.  The comment was about the fans being able to admit something about our QB. My response was pointing out how fans have been reluctant/refuse to admit when our QB was bad. I’m not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand. Edited October 28, 2019 by Bangarang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorquemada Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:  The Bills aren't the only team to run 2 Tight End sets a lot Bobby.    And with my innovative 11 TE set, a TE can throw a ball to another TE, with a couple TEs out in front to block. it'll be unstoppable! even dabol cant screw this up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden*Wheels Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 22 minutes ago, Mango said:   Josh Allen is 9th in the league in "Intended Air Yards per Attempt"  The issue isn't that we aren't trying. The issue is we aren't connecting on them.  https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2019/all#average-intended-yards   I don't know how much I put into such a stat, but in 2019 he was #1 in the league for the same metric...in 2019 he is #11, behind a lot of QBs of varying ability.  Reading their glossary on the stat, it's truly intended, not completed. So not connecting shouldn't have his average IAY down two yards.  Again, for whatever IAY is worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, NoHuddleKelly12 said: And yet...the most effective measuring stick to evaluate the growth curve of a (very) young/green QB would be his actual class of peers coming out the same year. For Kelly, that was Marino/Elway et al. 1983. For Rivers, it would be Big Ben, Eli, and so on. How exactly would that comparative approach be considered "Silly?" Silly would be trying to compare Josh this year to say, Tom Brady, draft class 2000, in his 19th year, no?  So again, are you willing to also call Darnold a bust? Mayfield? Rosen?   If I were a Browns or Jets fan I’m sure I’d be asking the same question. So what?  Are we allowed to compare Allen to MVP candidate Lamar Jackson?  How about 6th rounder from this year’s draft Gardner Minshew who is currently 8th in the NFL in Adjusted Net Yards per Attempt (Allen is 25th). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, Bangarang said: I know you’re trying really hard at some clever gotcha moment but it’s not working.  The comment was about the fans being able to admit something about our QB. My response was pointing out how fans have been when reluctant to admit when our QB was bad. I’m not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand.  Did I touch a nerve or something?  There's no "gotcha" here.  Yes, the comment was about the fans being able to admit something about the QB. Is there some arena of life where we admit things that aren't accepted as true? Because otherwise the implication is pretty clear that what we're being asked to admit is true.  Was that too deep? Too offensive? I assume not. Either way I'll move on at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, Wayne Arnold said: MVP candidate Lamar Jackson?   Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html  So 11 personnel (1RB, 1TE, 3WR) 49% Run 59% Success Rate 74 Attempts  12 personnel (1RB, 2 TE, 2WRs) 54% run 48% success 29 Runs  21 Personnel (2RB, 1 TE, 2 WRs) 40% Run 42% Success 19 runs  22 Personnel (2RB, 2TE, 1 WR) 95% Run 9% Success 18 Runs  10 Personnel (1 RB, 4 WRs) 50% Run 100% Success 2 Runs  13 Personnel (1RB, 3TEs, 1WR) 84% Run 50% Success 16 Runs   So again their Best Run formation is 3 WR. They start bringing in the Big guys their Run Success goes down.   The link isn't working and I'm sure this doesn't take context into consideration.  If it's 3rd and 17 and we are in a 3 WR set and the RB runs a 10 yarder...is this considered a "success"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, Royale with Cheese said: Â The link isn't working and I'm sure this doesn't take context into consideration. Â If it's 3rd and 17 and we are in a 3 WR set and the RB runs a 10 yarder...is this considered a "success"? https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:  Did I touch a nerve or something?  There's no "gotcha" here.  Yes, the comment was about the fans being able to admit something about the QB. Is there some arena of life where we admit things that aren't accepted as true? Because otherwise the implication is pretty clear that what we're being asked to admit is true.  Was that too deep? Too offensive? I assume not. Either way I'll move on at this point. Seemed like you were looking for an argument that wasn’t there. Why else would you put words in my mouth? Regardless, this (whatever it is)has run its course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: The Eagles actually do it a ton w/Goedert and Ertz...the difference being you can't just shove 8 in the box on defense because they're both terrific pass catchers as well as blockers. When the Bills run 2 TE sets they aren't nearly as multiple as Eagles are just owing to personnel.  Yeah I won't argue with this but Wentz has showed the ability this year to go deep, over the top deep and hit his WR. Allen hasn't this year. He did it last year...he needs to find it again. We are a bad passing team...again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:  The link isn't working and I'm sure this doesn't take context into consideration.  If it's 3rd and 17 and we are in a 3 WR set and the RB runs a 10 yarder...is this considered a "success"?  I don't know about Sharpe football, but for Football Outsiders (for example), Success Rate takes into account down and distance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, MAJBobby said: https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html  Still not working.  So again, a 3rd and 17 and we get 10 yards on a run...is that considered a "success"?  We can't run out of 3 WR sets most of the game. We need to be able to be multiple. Just now, thebandit27 said:  I don't know about Sharpe football, but for Football Outsiders (for example), Success Rate takes into account down and distance  This argument is just going down a rabbit hole....  What are your thoughts on Allen's deep ball accuracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) Just now, Royale with Cheese said:  Still not working.  So again, a 3rd and 17 and we get 10 yards on a run...is that considered a "success"?  We can't run out of 3 WR sets most of the game. We need to be able to be multiple.  This argument is just going down a rabbit hole....  What are your thoughts on Allen's deep ball accuracy? I am trying to find a place that tracks it real time. I know last year his deep ball accuracy was 40%  keep the link. it will work seems the site is down right now Edited October 28, 2019 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:  Still not working.  So again, a 3rd and 17 and we get 10 yards on a run...is that considered a "success"?  We can't run out of 3 WR sets most of the game. We need to be able to be multiple.  This argument is just going down a rabbit hole....  What are your thoughts on Allen's deep ball accuracy?  Looks like he's trying way too hard to put air under the ball and needs to just let it rip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:  Yeah I won't argue with this but Wentz has showed the ability this year to go deep, over the top deep and hit his WR. Allen hasn't this year. He did it last year...he needs to find it again. We are a bad passing team...again.  The Bills are a bad passing team because their quarterback isn't a very good passer. He's still 28th in QB Rating.  He's a decent field general, but in no way is Josh Allen someone you want dropping back 40+ times a game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Lol  I must have missed the joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 We are. Rumblin', Bumblin', Stumblin', all of it. Daboll gave Josh the rock 42 times yesterday, compared to just 12 for Frank and Motor (and don't give me the game was out of hand crap, we were only down 11 until that last Iggles TD). How are we not letting Josh be Josh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:  The Bills are a bad passing team because their quarterback isn't a very good passer. He's still 28th in QB Rating.  He's a decent field general, but in no way is Josh Allen someone you want dropping back 40+ times a game.  I'm not giving up on him but at the same time, I think it's safe to say that he isn't where we need or want him to be at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 2 hours ago, ILBillsfan said: I see a young quarterback that isn’t 100% in trusting his reads and is hesitant at times for fear of the turnover  he is still young and learning some patience and growing pains w a young quarterback that in today’s nfl seem to be non existent anymore  he won't be learning much longer taking a dozen needless shots a game when he takes off before letting the play develop  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: Â I must have missed the joke. Â Jackson has 11 passing TD on the year. 5 of those came in Miami, meaning he's averaging less than a td passing per game, since. Â Your entire post was the joke, Wayne. Edited October 28, 2019 by Joe in Winslow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, Royale with Cheese said:  I'm not giving up on him but at the same time, I think it's safe to say that he isn't where we need or want him to be at this point.  Agreed.  Josh isn't terrible, and he's probably a guy who can win 7-9 games each year because he seems to do well late in games and can do enough to beat bad teams, but there's nothing so far that suggests he's ever going to exist in the upper echelon of NFL QBs. There are still way too many simple mistakes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Chandler's Hands Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Dablitzkrieg said: Josh is wildly inaccurate. The deep ball completion % is what this year, 0%?  And yet, heading into this week he was the MOST accurate passer inside 20 yards. So he's wildly accurate too. That's just wild... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said: And yet, heading into this week he was the MOST accurate passer inside 20 yards. So he's wildly accurate too. That's just wild... Did you just learn a new word? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Chandler's Hands Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Dablitzkrieg said: Did you just learn a new word? Yes, I'm wildly in love with the word wild.   Edited October 28, 2019 by Bob Chandler's Hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorquemada Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:  Agreed.  Josh isn't terrible, and he's probably a guy who can win 7-9 games each year because he seems to do well late in games and can do enough to beat bad teams, but there's nothing so far that suggests he's ever going to exist in the upper echelon of NFL QBs. There are still way too many simple mistakes.  I hate that you're right about this. I'm not sold on any of the QBs of that class either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Ammendment NoMas Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 2 hours ago, MAJBobby said: He is Being Coached into a Game Manager. Who would have thought that would happen from an Ultra Conservative Defensive minded HC.  You traded up to 7th overall to get him, to what coach into him to be a Game Manager? This is my pet peeve too. WTF are they doing to him. Timid legs, thinking too much, conservative shots.  I want some run and gun. The kid has skills which shouldn't be put into a box. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, jrober38 said:  Agreed.  Josh isn't terrible, and he's probably a guy who can win 7-9 games each year because he seems to do well late in games and can do enough to beat bad teams, but there's nothing so far that suggests he's ever going to exist in the upper echelon of NFL QBs. There are still way too many simple mistakes.  We drafted and traded up for him to not be a bottom 1/3 NFL passing team. And that's where we are at. I won't mind the turnovers if he does more good/positive plays.  He's compared to Farve a lot because of "gunslinger". Yeah Farve made a lot of dumb decisions and threw a lot of INT's but you can live with that if they also make a lot of positive plays. Right now there isn't enough good from Josh to overcome the bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said: Yes, I'm wildly in love with the word wild. Freak? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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